Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Like Harry said "Lady, you're no Lasciel."
Dresden has actually looked upon a Fallen and gotten bounced onscreen; he knows the difference
It's been repeatedly stated that Tiffany/Lash is a kind of Lasciel. She isn't part mortal at all, she's knowledge that is itself divine and scraps of stolen divinity shaped like a mortal woman.

Tiffany wasn't even made with human parts, but rather an impossibly perfect idol designed to facilitate her worship as a sort of god.
 
… That's not how brain stems work though? That's the most critical part of the brain for maintaining bodily function. Shooting it should be extra lethal.

Oh yeah for all modern medical practice it would kill you, but technically you are not dead in the magical sense until the neocortex, the part with all the memories and emotions is starved of oxygen so if you had come kind of miraculous healer who could deal with arbitrary amounts of physical damage, but you needed someone's will disrupted right now and instantly... well the spine won't do so it has to be the brain stem
 
Oh yeah for all modern medical practice it would kill you, but technically you are not dead in the magical sense until the neocortex, the part with all the memories and emotions is starved of oxygen so if you had come kind of miraculous healer who could deal with arbitrary amounts of physical damage, but you needed someone's will disrupted right now and instantly... well the spine won't do so it has to be the brain stem
Stabbing someone in the heart wouldn't kill by that standard either, but I would think it would allow a death curse.
 
Stabbing someone in the heart wouldn't kill by that standard either, but I would think it would allow a death curse.
You need to be able to think or see or otherwise interact with anything to launch a death curse though or have it prepared which considering this guy is actively absorbing to try and fire it it's not prepared and if he is suddenly incapable of moving thinking or seeing I fail to see why he would be able to get off his death curse.
 
Oh yeah for all modern medical practice it would kill you, but technically you are not dead in the magical sense until the neocortex, the part with all the memories and emotions is starved of oxygen so if you had come kind of miraculous healer who could deal with arbitrary amounts of physical damage, but you needed someone's will disrupted right now and instantly... well the spine won't do so it has to be the brain stem
Six minutes at the minimum before you begin to suffer irreversible brain damage.
Depending on things like temperature and the like, can be stretched much longer. So if you do have magical healers about, your definition of acceptable damage is a lot more permissive.
Stabbing someone in the heart wouldn't kill by that standard either, but I would think it would allow a death curse.
Stabbing someone in the heart doesnt cause the sort of neurogenic trauma that causes immediate loss of consciousness, at least not for most victims.
Shooting them in the head does. Likewise punching them in the head, as boxers repeatedly demonstrate.
 
Stabbing someone in the heart wouldn't kill by that standard either, but I would think it would allow a death curse.

Oh yeah definitely and any healing to bring back someone who has used a death curse in the time between being stabbed in the heart and brain death would not work since they have already sung their magical swan song. Shooting someone in the brain though blacks them out too fast to cast the death curse (that is one of those things that scared Dresden about Kinkaid) shooting them in the part of the brain that is not technically kill them instantly allows healing. It is a very fine needle to thread in both senses of the word.
 
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Instead of going for ballistic brain surgery, couldn't Olivia just aim for a solid grazing shot? Carving a groove in the side of his skull (not just a scalp wound) should be a lot more manageable, and it's guaranteed to ring his bell sufficiently to keep him from casting or doing much of anything else for a while.
 
Instead of going for ballistic brain surgery, couldn't Olivia just aim for a solid grazing shot? Carving a groove in the side of his skull (not just a scalp wound) should be a lot more manageable, and it's guaranteed to ring his bell sufficiently to keep him from casting or doing much of anything else for a while.
I mean his brain would be immediately leaking out if you did that the human skull is like maybe 7 mm thick. Though if he's still alive after that happens I imagine he will definitely not be trying to cast a spell.
 
Oh yeah definitely and any healing to bring back someone who has used a death curse in the time between being stabbed in the heart and brain death would not work since they have already sung their magical swan song. Shooting someone in the brain though blacks them out too fast to cast the death curse (that is one of those things that scared Dresden about Kinkaid) shooting them in the part of the brain that is not technically kill them instantly allows healing. It is a very fine needle to thread in both senses of the word.
Point of order:
Its implied that Harry used either a death curse, or something very close to a death curse in Grave Peril, when he burned Bianca's mansion to the ground the first time, and had to be given CPR by Michael.

Whether bringing him back is something that anyone with sufficient medical skill could have done, or if it was a big M miracle by a Knight of the Cross, remains unsaid.
 
RATIONALE
Oliva has the Merits:
-Crack Shot, which eliminates all penalties/increased DCs for aimed shots at specific locations, which means at worst DC6.
-Graceful, which reduces Dex-based DCs by -1DC, brings that down to DC 5.
-Flow of Ki allows her to spend 2 points of Mana to reduce DCs further to DC3.

Aimed shot, Dexterity 3 + Firearms 4, DC3. Spend 1WP to guarantee no botches.
Average 6 successes.

Assuming a 7 damage rifle, with a called shot adding +3 damage dice for a total of 10 damage dice,
Plus that additional 6 threshold dice from the attack roll, for a total of 16 damage dice?
The problem is actually not killing the dude.
Seems odd to mention all of those merits and not hell weaving. I have generally thought of that as the center of her build.

Edit : Actually could we just skip the ballistic surgery and have Olivia use the first dot of Hell weaving to show the warlock a vision. The text seems to indicate that it interrupts all other actions.

Black Wind allows her to take Aim actions as well.
No time for aim actions now unfortunately.
 
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Instead of going for ballistic brain surgery, couldn't Olivia just aim for a solid grazing shot? Carving a groove in the side of his skull (not just a scalp wound) should be a lot more manageable, and it's guaranteed to ring his bell sufficiently to keep him from casting or doing much of anything else for a while.
Not guaranteed.
And frankly, Olivia is going to be prioritizing the lives of known friendlies (and in this case, the party's primary healer) over that of a hostile. And she'd be right to.

If the warlock had been trying to death curse Molly or Lydia, then she might have tried something else, because Molly and Lydia are the tanks, who'd shrug off most of that.
Seems odd to mention all of those merits and not hell weaving. I have generally thought of that as the center of her build.
She only has 3 points of Demon Chi for the whole day.
Hellweaving will cost her at least 2 points of that for one use; I dont see why she'd want to spend it here.
 
Oh yeah definitely and any healing to bring back someone who has used a death curse in the time between being stabbed in the heart and brain death would not work since they have already sung their magical swan song. Shooting someone in the brain though blacks them out too fast to cast the death curse (that is one of those things that scared Dresden about Kinkaid) shooting them in the part of the brain that is not technically kill them instantly allows healing. It is a very fine needle to thread in both senses of the word.
I'm not contesting that a head shot would stop a death curse, just that it wouldn't kill them on the spot. I thought what Harry was afraid of with Kinkaid was the idea of being killed by complete surprise too fast to cast anything.

A bullet would send shock waves through the brain that pulped the rest of it, maybe the death ray wouldn't propagate heat/electricity into the rest of his grey matter because magitech bullshit but I'm surprised it works that way.
 
She only has 3 points of Demon Chi for the whole day.
Hellweaving will cost her at least 2 points of that for one use; I dont see why she'd want to spend it here.
It also lasts all day so long as she is directly acting in Molly's service.

Actually could we just skip the ballistic surgery and have Olivia use the first dot of Hell weaving to show the warlock a vision? The text seems to indicate that it interrupts all other actions.

● This power allows the akuma to infuse a victim's mind with images of the Yomi World and what occurs within it. It is a brave soul indeed that can withstand such an assault without running screaming into the night.

System: The akuma must make eye contact with his victim, while the player spends a point of Demon Chi and rolls Perception + Occult (difficulty 6). Success means the victim is tormented with visions of the Yomi World. The victim must make a Willpower roll (difficulty 7) and achieve more successes than the akuma did, to avoid the effects of the power. Failure means he will flee in terror from the akuma; weaker victims (mortals with a Stamina of 1 or 2) may die of heart failure.

Sacrifice: Gold (at least one coin's worth).
 
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but being shot in the brain is instant death if for no other reason then most of the things most people would consider the self would be splattered across a wall.

Considering Tiffany can work with anything other than actually full on dead blowing out of brain stem, bad in a lot of different ways but not actually death.
I'd like to point out the case of Phineas Gage, a man who got a metal pole shoved all the way through his brain in a construction accident, had surgery to get it out (along with even more of his brain) and continued to function relatively normally, hold a job speak and do everything you'd expect a man without a gaping hole in their brain to do for several years. Not to say there weren't side effects but still.
 
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I mean his brain would be immediately leaking out if you did that the human skull is like maybe 7 mm thick. Though if he's still alive after that happens I imagine he will definitely not be trying to cast a spell.
It is guaranteed to be easier and less dangerous to nick his skull without penetrating or causing a fracture that sends bone splinters into his brain compared to actually targeting the brain stem in a manner that doesn't cause instantaneous death through trauma or leave enough him aware enough to complete the curse despite being shot.

To be honest, however, I think she should just be going for an instant kill. If your brain ceases to exist as anything more than a pulped mass of ruined tissue, you don't have the necessary awareness to target a death curse. It's the Kincaid method for wizard slaying. Interrogation of this dude isn't likely to be particularly effective in any reasonable timeframe, since he seems to be completely fucking crazy.
 
I'd like to point out the case of Phineas Gage, a man who got a metal pole shoved all the way through his brain in a construction accident, had surgery to get it out (along with even more is his brain) and continued to function relatively normally, hold a job speak and do everything you'd expect a man without a gaping hole in their brain to do for several years. Not to say there weren't side effects but still.
The penetration of the brain itself isn't necessarily the fatal part of the injury, assuming nothing immediately lethal is hit, it's the amount of energy delivered. A spike, nail, knife, etc., doesn't have the same effect as a projectile blasting a hole through the skull, sending pressure waves bouncing around inside while turning everything to jelly as skull fragments shred the rest.
 
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It is guaranteed to be easier and less dangerous to nick his skull without penetrating or causing a fracture that sends bone splinters into his brain compared to actually targeting the brain stem in a manner that doesn't cause instantaneous death through trauma or leave enough him aware enough to complete the curse despite being shot.

To be honest, however, I think she should just be going for an instant kill. If your brain ceases to exist as anything more than a pulped mass of ruined tissue, you don't have the necessary awareness to target a death curse. It's the Kincaid method for wizard slaying. Interrogation of this dude isn't likely to be particularly effective in any reasonable timeframe, since he seems to be completely fucking crazy.
We can extract way more information from a living crazy dude than from a corpse but also it's way less suspicious for us to have a living crazy dude and get information that it is for us to just have the information while just having a corpse. Though if you want Olivia just to shoot him in the head that you can just write a plan where that happens.
Example said:
[ ] Plan By Our Will, Death
-[ ] Olivia tries to send a sniper bullet through the warlock's Forehead.
--[ ]Molly: Shadow Spite Curse on warlock
--[ ] Olivia: Hellweaving 2 Demon chi
--[ ] Stunt: "Olivia If you would" you called out as Shadows spill and curl upon the Warlock " On it" the simple two word response belies the speed at which her Electro rifle slings over her shoulder into her hands with the scope near her eye as the tides of fortune rip and turn as she focuses on the Warlock.
 
Edit : Actually could we just skip the ballistic surgery and have Olivia use the first dot of Hell weaving to show the warlock a vision. The text seems to indicate that it interrupts all other actions.
He's a Willpower 7 wizard, not a backstreet thug.
One who just almost killed a two hundred plus year old elder wizard; Mad Marge is from the French Revolution.
We have no idea what his Spheres are, or what defensive rotes he's currently running.

There's a place for finesse.
I dont think this is it.
It also last all day so long as she is directly acting in Molly's service.
Its a scenelong effect, not daylong.
 
For this kind of thing we should start carrying around an essence vessel. They're a cheap and reusable way to store the souls of our enemies, which we could use to reincarnate them in our hell for later interrogation.
 
The penetration of the brain itself isn't necessarily the fatal part of the injury, assuming nothing immediately lethal is hit, it's the amount of energy delivered. A spike, nail, knife, etc., doesn't have the same effect as a projectile blasting a hole through the skull, sending pressure waves bouncing around inside while turning everything to jelly and as skill fragments shred the rest.
Should I bring up examples of people surviving bullets to the brain (not a graze)? Point being that a bullet to the brain technically isn't guaranteed to be an instant kill, not that Olivia is using bullets atm.

Though I'm not really sure why we wouldn't want Olivia to just kill this guy. Doesn't he need more time to actually cast a DC or has he already met that requirement?
 
Its a scenelong effect, not daylong.
System: The player spends a point of Demon Chi. For the rest of the scene (or longer, at the Storyteller's discretion), all rolls he makes in direct furtherance of his and the Yama Kings' evil purposes are at up to -2 difficulty. Of course, it is up to the Storyteller to determine what tasks are involved in "the will of the Yama King."
The original thing in the book was way longer with loads of examples for what counted as direct furtherance of his and the Yama Kings' evil purposes which all didn't apply, but the general idea still should. When Olivia is acting directly under our orders to our ends it can last a whole day.

But I still think that Olivia just using the first dot of Hell weaving to show a scary vision would be a better way to stop the warlock then ballistic surgery.
 
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Should I bring up examples of people surviving bullets to the brain (not a graze)? Point being that a bullet to the brain technically isn't guaranteed to be an instant kill, not that Olivia is using bullets atm.

Though I'm not really sure why we wouldn't want Olivia to just kill this guy. Doesn't he need more time to actually cast a DC or has he already met that requirement?
How many of those survivors took a shot intended to kill from an expert marksman using a serious weapon, rather than a lucky hit from something wimpy like a .22 or other smaller caliber, that barely penetrates and hits at a good angle to prevent catastrophic trauma? I doubt any of those survivors were conscious after taking the hit, either.

That said, I'm also leaning toward just popping his head.
 
[x]Plan Simple vision
-[X]Olivia uses first dot hell weaving to trap the warlock in a scary vision. 1 demon chi and giving Molly a gold coin.
-[x] Molly uses Shadow Spite Curse to make the Warlock fumble his death curse just in case. BSM and CCC still apply.

[x] Let the wizards handle is
-[x]Use Shadow Spite Curse to make the Warlock fumble his death curse. BSM and CCC still apply.
-[x]Stunt: Dealing with the death curse of Warlocks is hardly anything new for Wardens of the White Council. But you put your thumb on the scale. The Warlock's spite is nothing compared to your own.
 
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