Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Look, 5 in a skill is literally being one of the few hundred best people on Earth in that skill.

It's olympic level athletes, genius scientists, etc.

Doing something long and well gets you to 3. Doing it long and well with a lot of talent to 4.
Getting a skill to 5 and then keeping it there requires usually dedicating your life to it.

Like, the best chessplayer on the planet has 5, but if he got a regular job and started playing chess only once a week or so, he'd quickly be back down to 4.

Long life doesn't help you in that regard, long life can help you building up a lot of skills to 1 or 2, not to reach and maintain a skill at highest level.
There are a lot more than mere hundreds that would qualify for the Olympics if they had the proper training. Also we are talking about a people that can live centuries or millennia. It doesn't matter if it's a few hundred people because that's with a mortal limit on time. Not when someone could train for centuries to get just as good.

I find the idea ridiculous that more people wouldn't progress that far with such a lifespan extension. Also plenty of skills with 5 dots are basically just normal master while 3 is professional and 4 is an expert.
 
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[x] Let the wizards handle is
-[x]Use Shadow Spite Curse to make the Warlock fumble his death curse. BSM and CCC still apply.
-[x]Stunt: Dealing with the death curse of Warlocks is hardly anything new for Wardens of the White Council. But you put your thumb on the scale. The Warlock's spite is nothing compared to your own.

Even with all the limitations Shadow Spite Curse is a fairly powerful charm when working in groups. At least when we don't want to just obviously personally kill someone. Just swording the person will always be a better use of our action from a pure combat perspective.
 
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There are a lot more than mere hundreds that would qualify for the Olympics if they had the proper training. Also we are talking about a people that can live centuries or millennia. It doesn't matter if it's a few hundred people because that's with a mortal limit on time. Not when someone could train for centuries to get just as good.
Did you actually read what I just said?

Sure, more people could be Olympic-level good if they were doing the crushing amounts of training that is required for that.

But somewhere between the willingness to do that, the opportunity to do it and the physical and mental requirements to succede, it comes down to a few hundreds.

And you can't just spread out intense training over decades or centuries, then it's not intense enough anymore.
A surgeon can't just do one surgery a month and expect to stay at the peak of his skill, a chessmaster can't train one evening per month and stay at the peak of his skill.

People get rusty, and the higher the skill-level is, the quicker even a slight deterioration is noticeable.
 
What was the trace roll?

[x] Let the wizards handle is
-[x]Use Shadow Spite Curse to make the Warlock fumble his death curse. BSM and CCC still apply.
-[x]Stunt: Dealing with the death curse of Warlocks is hardly anything new for Wardens of the White Council. But you put your thumb on the scale. The Warlock's spite is nothing compared to your own.

I ve been wanting to do this for a while
 
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I wonder if any GMs actually show NPC reactions to 5 dots in an attribute or skill anywhere. Because that's rare in my opinion. Systems often suck at showing these things outside of magic systems.

Anyway, I approve of the plan that curses the warlock and at the same time Olivia shoots him. That would be perfect imho.
 
Did you actually read what I just said?

Sure, more people could be Olympic-level good if they were doing the crushing amounts of training that is required for that.

But somewhere between the willingness to do that, the opportunity to do it and the physical and mental requirements to succede, it comes down to a few hundreds.

And you can't just spread out intense training over decades or centuries, then it's not intense enough anymore.
A surgeon can't just do one surgery a month and expect to stay at the peak of his skill, a chessmaster can't train one evening per month and stay at the peak of his skill.

People get rusty, and the higher the skill-level is, the quicker even a slight deterioration is noticeable.
I mean no I wouldn't call it quicker like skill degradation is a thing but it's gonna take a swordsman a bit longer to lose their edge than a complete amateur probably years without the blade. But a 5 dot master is probably not gonna ever unless they have major brain damage lower them all the way to 1 or 2 dots they'd probably never get that bad. Given that's not what you said.

Anyways I'm saying with the many centuries people have on them and the many billions of people we have access too. The numbers should probably at least be tripled maybe even quadrupeled. Not to mention the people dedicated to a craft I mean dp did basically say we have access to individuals with 6 dots in most things. Maybe higher in a few rare cases though that's just supposition. Every path and skill probably has a few hundred people at 5 dots.
 
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Did you actually read what I just said?

Sure, more people could be Olympic-level good if they were doing the crushing amounts of training that is required for that.

But somewhere between the willingness to do that, the opportunity to do it and the physical and mental requirements to succede, it comes down to a few hundreds.

And you can't just spread out intense training over decades or centuries, then it's not intense enough anymore.
A surgeon can't just do one surgery a month and expect to stay at the peak of his skill, a chessmaster can't train one evening per month and stay at the peak of his skill.

People get rusty, and the higher the skill-level is, the quicker even a slight deterioration is noticeable.
There's the thing though right because both martial arts and sorceries are learned skills individual recipes, move sets, rituals and spells skill deterioration would need to literally delete their memory of how they work rather than them getting rusty no amount of rust would allow you to lose dots in Alchemy simply because the principles of how Alchemy work are known to you and you know the recipes.

Maybe it would take you longer to remake them and you need to set up a lab and generally get back to work but no amount of skill Rust should mean that you are no longer a Five Dot Alchemist because you know how to make Five Dot potions and concoctions.

This goes the same for most martial arts mostly because martial arts are literally trained they are literally like riding a bike because if you master a martial art to the point where you can perform literal magic with it it's hard to imagine that the movements would not fall back into place like every other ingrained movement that humans are capable of though yet again it might take you a little bit longer maybe you're not as fast or as spry with it as you used to be but the idea that you just forget how to do it it doesn't really make sense.

Spells you learn how to do them unless you just somehow forget the Spells you are still a Five Dot in whatever path uses spells because that is how the abilities of paths work unless something has destroyed your memory of how to perform a spell you are still capable of Performing that spell. Rituals are the same way which considering they specifically build on the path as both helping tools and foundations for larger effects of using the path.

If people were talking about yeah they would have mechanical malices or whatever to using high level sorceries or martial arts or X thing that is a completely learned skill that is grasped and understood by the knowledge that you have gained in it rather than practiced repetition. I would be willing to let it go but considering you can become a master and due to the fact it is a study if anyone had a passion for it in the hundreds of years they've been alive and dedicated the time which people do that all the time they would become a master even if they stopped practicing for a long time and they only used it occasionally unless they just completely forget how the path functions they shouldn't decay in dots.

People compare it to surgery and Athletics but all Paths of sorcery and most martial arts are completely bound to the knowledge you possess of the path which means having skill decay in them is like having skilled decay in well I guess science when you have a specialty or any other knowledge skill where you have a specialty and have studied. Unless something Paradigm shifting has happened that causes a great upheaval in the knowledge possessed in in the past and will in the future it doesn't really make sense for you to lose dots in science or Finance or law.
 
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I know about the Nephilim in Demon the Fallen. They are not modeled as demons in the same game. Because demons are not only their lore. But that is not the point. Lash is not a Nephilim because she is an Angel. A fallen angel and a shard, but she is still a shadow and a copy, not a new being from the mixing of mortal and divine. Although she is still a new being due to the use of technology from the First Age.
Nephilim, to my recollection are not mechanically modelled because they are neither PCs nor NPCs.
They are supposed to be extinct in DTF.

To be clear, we're talking about Lash, not Lasciel. I dont think Lash has ever been portrayed as an angel.
Not even as a Fallen angel.
A Shadow is not a Fallen. A knowledgeable, powerful spirit descended from an angel, but not an angel itself.

Like Harry said "Lady, you're no Lasciel."
Dresden has actually looked upon a Fallen and gotten bounced onscreen; he knows the difference.
If they follow the usual rules for minor splats in WoD they'd probably be limited to the lower versions of Lores, like Ghouls, Dhampirs, etc.
Doubt it. Thralls of Demons and Earthbound already have access to demonic Lores.
Hard to argue that

And I get the impression that the OG Nephilim are supposed to have been around the same power levels as the Fallen who are freshly escaped from the Abyss in modern day DTF.
Fallen are much diminished from the rebel Angels of the War.

Which is probably why there isnt a playable splat for Nephilim; hard to differentiate them.


Atop a Rotting Tower​
18th of February 2007 A.D.
COMMENTARY
Electrified cuffs. Probably drugs as well.

Oof, Mags.
No shields, no defenses, nothing? In an active combat zone? Girl, you're just trying to get killed. And ruin Molly's record of avoiding friendly kills. Good thing we have two healers on the team.

Im increasingly inclined to set off that torrential downpour.

Warlocks generally arent the die for the cause type
This dude trying to kill himself for the points at either insanity or brainwashing, and I would assume that blatant insanity would have been noticed by other wizards.

Also the second wizard here who hasnt been recognized by name by either the second in command of the Wardens or the Blackstaff, who used to be commander of the Wardens back in the 19th century.
You have to wonder where they are getting them from.

Hmm. Tiffany isnt taking this as seriously as she should, else she would be running all her buffs by now, and her Stamina/Intelligence would both be 10, allowing her to throw 14 dice at her healing rolls(Stamina 10+ Medicine 4).
Especially as she's had warning.

This dude just rolled 7 successes on a 7 dice Willpower roll. Damn.

@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1)What firearm is Olivia carrying? Or should we pull a weapon out of the books? Does she have taser bullets(M20 p454)?

2)Distance from Molly/Sophia to the warlock?
Molly can do 34 yards/second without burning Essence, and ~110 yards/second if she spends Essence.
Sophia can do 51 yards/second.
 
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@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1)What firearm is Olivia carrying? Or should we pull a weapon out of the books? Does she have taser bullets(M20 p454)?

2)Distance from Molly/Sophia to the warlock?
Molly can do 34 yards/second without burning Essence, and ~110 yards/second if she spends Essence.
Sophia can do 51 yards/second.
  1. You guys gave her a electro-laser rifle so that's what she has
  2. The tower is 60 yards away
As for being recognized, this guy may well have been Morgan was a bit busy yelling the arcane version of 'duck and cover' to call out a name.
 
  1. You guys gave her a electro-laser rifle so that's what she has
  2. The tower is 60 yards away
As for being recognized, this guy may well have been Morgan was a bit busy yelling the arcane version of 'duck and cover' to call out a name.
Okay. Gonna have to change that loadout in the future, but thats for the future.
I generally prefer to avoid Olivia, because her build is physically painful to look at.
But this is probably why she exists.


VOTE
[X]Plan Shutdown
-[X] Olivia tries to send a sniper bullet through the warlock's brain stem, causing him to blank out without technically killing him. Tiffany can fix him for interrogation later
--[X]Olivia: Flow of Ki + spend WP for automatic success: 1WP, 2 Mana
--[X]Molly: Shadow Spite Curse on warlock
--[X]Sophia: Grab body of warlock before he hits the ground and breaks his damned neck
--[X]Tiffany: Manipulate Flesh(Stamina) on self to increase soak


RATIONALE

Oliva has the Merits:
-Crack Shot, which eliminates all penalties/increased DCs for aimed shots at specific locations, which means at worst DC6.
-Graceful, which reduces Dex-based DCs by -1DC, brings that down to DC 5.
-Flow of Ki allows her to spend 2 points of Mana to reduce DCs further to DC3.

Aimed shot, Dexterity 3 + Firearms 4, DC3. Spend 1WP to guarantee no botches.
Average 6 successes.

Assuming a 7 damage rifle, with a called shot adding +3 damage dice for a total of 10 damage dice,
Plus that additional 6 threshold dice from the attack roll, for a total of 16 damage dice?
The problem is actually not killing the dude.
 
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[X] Plan By Our Will
-[X] Olivia tries to send a sniper bullet through the warlock's brain stem, causing him to blank out without technically killing him. Tiffany can fix him for interrogation later
--[X]Molly: Shadow Spite Curse on warlock
--[X] Olivia: Hellweaving 2 Demon chi
--[X] Olivia: Flow of Ki 2 Mana
--[X] Stunt: "Olivia we need him alive" you called out as Shadows spill and curl upon the Warlock " On it" the simple two word response belies the speed at which her Electro rifle slings over her shoulder into her hands with the scope near her eye as the tides of fortune and her own magic rip and turn as she focuses on the Warlock.

Edit: Crack Shot, which eliminates all penalties/increased DCs for aimed shots at specific locations, which means at worst DC6.
-Graceful, which reduces Dex-based DCs by -1DC, brings that down to DC 5.
With HellWeaving that drops to 3
With flow of Ki and difficulty down to 3, two automatic success
Olivia rolls 7 dice at difficulty 3 with two automatic success (8 successes on average) no need to spend willpower which is the fuel of all her sorcery and psychic powers.
 
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RATIONALE
Oliva has
Crack Shot, which eliminates all penalties/increased DCs for aimed shots at specific locations, which means at worst DC6.
Graceful, which reduces Dex-based DCs by -1DC, brings that down to DC 5.
Flow of Ki allows her to spend 2 points of Mana to reduce DCs further to DC3.

Aimed shot, Dexterity 3 + Firearms 4, DC3. Spend 1WP to guarantee no botches.
Average 6 successes.

Black Wind allows her to take Aim actions as well.
 
[X]Plan Shutdown
-[X] Olivia tries to send a sniper bullet through the warlock's brain stem, causing him to blank out without technically killing him. Tiffany can fix him for interrogation later
--[X]Tiffany: Flow of Ki + spend WP for automatic success: 1WP, 2 Mana
--[X]Molly: Shadow Spite Curse on warlock
--[X]Sophia: Grab body of warlock before he hits the ground and breaks his damned neck
--[X]Tiffany: Manipulate Flesh(Stamina) on self to increase soak
 
Look, 5 in a skill is literally being one of the few hundred best people on Earth in that skill.

It's olympic level athletes, genius scientists, etc.

Doing something long and well gets you to 3. Doing it long and well with a lot of talent to 4.
Getting a skill to 5 and then keeping it there requires usually dedicating your life to it.

Like, the best chessplayer on the planet has 5, but if he got a regular job and started playing chess only once a week or so, he'd quickly be back down to 4.

Long life doesn't help you in that regard, long life can help you building up a lot of skills to 1 or 2, not to reach and maintain a skill at highest level.
I agree, though with the decay I think getting back would be easier at least on a narrative level.
The Sound of Sudden Super Brain Cancer... that is not what he called the rote, but it might as well be
Oh boy. That's a hell of a rote. I'm almost impressed.

I'm tempted to have the War Weavers go beat him unconscious while we cut the power.


[] Olivia tries to send a sniper bullet through the warlock's brain stem, causing him to blank out without technically killing him. Tiffany can fix him for interrogation later
… That's not how brain stems work though? That's the most critical part of the brain for maintaining bodily function. Shooting it should be extra lethal.
 
Nephilim exist in WoD. It's a seven point merit.
On top of the other benefits, mages with it can use spheres to mimic Lores without Paradox.
MTA Nephilim/Laham are children/descendants of High Umbrood.
What Greek mythology would probably call demigods.

DTF Nephilim are....not.
Mimicking a Lore is not the same thing as using a Lore either.
Black Wind allows her to take Aim actions as well.
Doesnt need it. We're not trying to kill this dude. A called shot to a specific location adds +3 dice to the damage roll already.
And Black Wind use blocks her out from using any other Demon Art.
Which she might need in the future of this fight.

I Get the distinct feeling that is meant to say Olivia not Tiffany
Oops. Fixing.

… That's not how brain stems work though? That's the most critical part of the brain for maintaining bodily function. Shooting it should be extra lethal.
Molly is Academics 1, Medicine 0.
Im assuming that she has human biology a little mixed up, especially since she's Ms "You dumped an assault rifle mag into my chest. My T-shirt is ruined!" :V
 
… That's not how brain stems work though? That's the most critical part of the brain for maintaining bodily function. Shooting it should be extra lethal.
If you lost your brain stem which is impossible without killing you in most cases you wouldn't immediately die due to it being like being shot in the heart simply because the brain stem functions on keeping all of your autonomic systems working. It would not immediately kill anyone anymore than being stabbed in the Heart would it's bad extremely so but being shot in the brain is instant death if for no other reason then most of the things most people would consider the self would be splattered across a wall.

Considering Tiffany can work with anything other than actually full on dead blowing out of brain stem, bad in a lot of different ways but not actually death.
 
I wonder if any GMs actually show NPC reactions to 5 dots in an attribute or skill anywhere. Because that's rare in my opinion. Systems often suck at showing these things outside of magic systems.
It's hard to do properly with systems that do not have very consistent rolls - you'll need to rely on GM fiat a lot to do it.
7th Sea First Edition was pretty good at this since it used Roll'n'Keep system with exploding dice. So 5/5 was an absolute nightmare to go against because the guy would be rolling 10 dice and keeping 5 best of them. And if some of them explode he'll take them. Characters with higher skill and attribute levels were not only able to beat higher DCs but also did it way more consistently.
As a result it was easy to find situations that warranted NPCs going white faced over some PC or Villain going absolutely bonkers on people around them. And in most other situations with audience, especially balls and other social gatherings, that were a big part of the game even if not the main one.
 
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