Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

aren't like a third of our population non humans?
I dont remember if its that low; Yog wanted a non-standard mix, and I didnt pay too much attention to his demographic numbers.
Nevertheless, non-homo sapiens is not non-mortal, at least according to the rules by which the Hell was built.

There are supernaturals, dont get me wrong; we took that option when speccing the Hell.
But it was specifically written to be a minority of the population.
Presumably to avoid this kind of scenario.
 
I'm unsure someone whose resurrected several times counts as mortal? I don't really mind either way we still have plenty of soldiers that aren't.
 
No, you're wrong. Go back and look at the options to build Sanctuary again.
We're a multi-species society. We're NOT a non-mortal society. We have supernatural members, but they are a small fraction of our society.
We have been over this before. You were proven to be wrong and inventing things then. I am not reiterating this again. Nothing in any source says that supernaturals are a minority. You can have your full population be supernatural, which is closer yo what Sanctuary is than the other way. This has even been brought up in story already, when Molly showed "pure mortal" BMI disguise to that labyrinth explorer. Who noted that pure mortals are theoretically suggested, but ate practically unknown.
 
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I'm unsure someone whose resurrected several times counts as mortal? I don't really mind either way we still have plenty of soldiers that aren't.
Thats the way the Hell was set up. Resurrection/immortality is not an intrinsic feature of the person, its a feature of the fact that they live in Sanctuary. If you brought immigrants from outside, they would presumably also be immortal as long as they were in the city; if they moved outside Sanctuary, they would die of natural old age in their time.
 
Thats the way the Hell was set up. Resurrection/immortality is not an intrinsic feature of the person, its a feature of the fact that they live in Sanctuary. If you brought immigrants from outside, they would presumably also be immortal as long as they were in the city; if they moved outside Sanctuary, they would die of natural old age in their time.
That's fair though I'm fairly sure there are multiple species that aren't considered mortal in Dresden files that aren't humans. Fairly sure a fair few species have shit like lifespans. Given the literal definition of mortal is basically whether one can die or not and the more common definition is if something can die of age. But like there are at least non human species with lifespans.

Anyways I'm tired literally and am done with this conversation. You and yog can talk about it like not mad or anything just not interested in this topic and am tired. Though I think both sides probably would want to ask what defenses can our hell get for this gate. If their going to be able to do a lot they may as well boogie trap this shit and make it near impossible to sneak through.
 
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We have been over this before. You were proven to be wrong and inventing things then. I am not reiterating this again. Nothing in any source says that supernaturals are a minority. You can have your full population be supernatural, which is closer yo what Sanctuary is than the other way. This has even been brought up in story already, when Molly showed "pure mortal" BMI disguise to that labyrinth explorer. Who noted that pure mortals are theoretically suggested, but ate practically unknown.
IIRC, this was the point build for Sanctuary:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files) Crossover - Fantasy

Molly Carpenter... neophyte wizard, prisoner of the fey and technically a warlock, now champion of the forgotten Hells whose masters have faded from the universe long ago. If the Yozi could laugh from beyond oblivion they would. Also Harry Dresden did technically set the green fire....
Vast size – 3 points, 2 points remaining
Difficult Terrain, 2 points remaining
Accessible Terrain, 2 points remaining
Pockets of Safety +2 points, 4 points remaining
Balanced Ecosystem, 4 points remaining
Earthly Fauna, 4 points remaining
Deadly Beasts, +1 point, 5 points remaining
Earthly Flora, 5 points remaining
Deadly Flora, +1 point, 6 points remaining
Human Populace, 6 points remaining
Resident Devils, -1 point, 5 points remaining
Advanced Social structures, 5 points remaining
Archaic Technology, 0 points, 5 points remaining
Advanced Technology, -2 points, 3 points remaining
Loyalty: Committed, -2 points, 1 points remaining
Resistance Movement, +1 point, 2 points
Dangerously Alien, 2 points remaining
Endless Suffering, -1 point, 1 point remaining
Lord of the Land, -1 point, 0 points remaining
From the book:
ExWoD p234 said:
Human Populace (Cost: None): The Realm has a native human population, with their own culture and a history that, strangely, significantly predates the creation of the Kingdom.
• Resident Devils (Cost: 1 point): The Realm has a significant population of superhuman beings such as bakemono and wicked spirits

We could have had it empty, or entirely machine mind, or wholly populated by beasts and flora.
Wholly, or majority supernatural was never an option.
And was never meant to be, if Im reading the book correctly.
 
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IIRC, this was the point build for Sanctuary:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files) Crossover - Fantasy

Molly Carpenter... neophyte wizard, prisoner of the fey and technically a warlock, now champion of the forgotten Hells whose masters have faded from the universe long ago. If the Yozi could laugh from beyond oblivion they would. Also Harry Dresden did technically set the green fire....

From the book:


We could have had it empty, or entirely machine mind, or wholly populated by beasts and flora.
Wholly, or majority supernatural was never an option.
And was never meant to be, if Im reading the book correctly.
That's says human not mortal which I think you know. Because no one ever claimed that they weren't human we claimed they weren't Mortals because they have either supernatural abilities or implants that make them fomori none of which dictate against Being Human.
 
IIRC, this was the point build for Sanctuary:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files) Crossover - Fantasy

Molly Carpenter... neophyte wizard, prisoner of the fey and technically a warlock, now champion of the forgotten Hells whose masters have faded from the universe long ago. If the Yozi could laugh from beyond oblivion they would. Also Harry Dresden did technically set the green fire....

From the book:


We could have had it empty, or entirely machine mind, or wholly populated by beasts and flora.
Wholly, or majority supernatural was never an option.
And was never meant to be, if Im reading the book correctly.
How do you go from "a significant population" to "they can only be a minority". 99% of population is significant. 30% is significant. <<1% isn't.

I honestly don't understand how you come up with those interpretations. They just don't follow from the text at all.

Not to mention that additional points spent shouldn't make situation worse.

Edit: and, as others said, there's nothing here about magical talents. Having 100% human population be 100% magical is entirely valid
 
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That's says human not mortal which I think you know. Because no one ever claimed that they weren't human we claimed they weren't Mortals because they have either supernatural abilities or implants that make them fomori none of which dictate against Being Human.
The fact that Superhuman is literally its own category of population under Resident Devils says different.

How do you go from "a significant population" to "they can only be a minority". 99% of population is significant. 30% is significant. <<1% isn't.

I honestly don't understand how you come up with those interpretations. They just don't follow from the text at all.

Not to mention that additional points spent shouldn't make situation worse.

Edit: and, as others said, there's nothing here about magical talents. Having 100% human population be 100% magical is entirely valid
Significant means noticeable. Not a majority, not even a plurality.
I dont know how you could read that and come to any other conclusion.

That seems like quite a reach.
We wouldnt have spent build points on Resident Devils if a normal human population would have given us superhuman operatives from jump.
 
The fact that Superhuman is literally its own category of population under Resident Devils says different.


Significant means noticeable. Not a majority, not even a plurality.
I dont know how you could read that and come to any other conclusion.

That seems like quite a reach.
We wouldnt have spent build points on Resident Devils if a normal human population would have given us superhuman operatives from jump.
The reach is saying that spending a precious design point on Resident Devils mean that our armies are mortal. Of course the exact definition of mortal is also unclear no one in our hell dies when they are killed.
 
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The fact that Superhuman is literally its own category of population under Resident Devils says different.

Human Populace (Cost: None): The Realm has a native human population, with their own culture and a history that, strangely, significantly predates the creation of the Kingdom.
• Resident Devils (Cost: 1 point): The Realm has a significant population of superhuman beings such as bakemono and wicked spirits
Those are specifically given examples one of which is a subcategory of human and the other is something that has never been and never will be human.
Which yet again no one is positing that that the human population isn't human the point of my contention is the false pretense that they are mortals Sorcerers, Psychics, Kinfolk(Spirit kin), Martial artist (Ki users) all of those are human none of which are mortals. This is alongside the fact if for some reason our armies are Mortal there is nothing stopping them from having industrially enchanted gear and protection with blessings and boons from spirits to protect them any way.
Human and Mortal are not synonymous terms system wise and you shouldn't treat them as if they are.
 
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Significant means noticeable. Not a majority, not even a plurality.
I dont know how you could read that and come to any other conclusion.

That seems like quite a reach.
We wouldnt have spent build points on Resident Devils if a normal human population would have given us superhuman operatives from jump
Please provide citations from dictionaries and such, because as far as I know there is no such distinction commonly accepted, and "major part" as well as "majority" can be synonyms of "significant part". As far as I know, significant is closer to "important" than "noticeable "
 
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Mortal basically means human without supernatural power in rules speak.

I'm pretty sure in V20 ghouls didn't count as mortal because they had supernatural abilities. I'm pretty should fomor, so people with cyberware in our hell, don't count as mortal either.
 
[X] uju32

Important reason to secure the plague - this guy was a dupe being played. There's almost certainly a contingency for his capture and we can't allow the plague to spread

Possible, but then there might also be a contingency for attempts to remove or destroy the prototype that Shaw might not even be aware of.

I also don't like the idea of us just taking the Wizard Plague Prototype to Sanctuary without okaying it with the Wizards first. Or at least not without voting to make it look like we destroyed it instead.
 
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Im for closing it entirely ASAP.

We can get Molly personally immune with a splendor, but it doesnt protect the 5 billion people in Sanctuary itself.
A vampire with Obtenebration 6 + Daimonion 6 is going to have the speed and stealth to infiltrate with a payload, and will be immune to the weapons in play.

Daimonion 8 is the point where they throw a Demon Prince-equivalent at the portal, which will cripple every mortal in the area that can perceive them in thirty seconds or less, and at that point nothing short of Molly herself will matter.

I will have to remember to put up that reply about why all the military theorycrafting to prove superiority is making critical mistakes in assessing how the enemy can respond
Closing it is probably going to take a while to do.I also think you're missing my point about security.

If we take reasonable precautions then stealth insertions like that shouldn't be possible, for the simple reason that they'd have to force their way through physical blockages. The immunity splendor would make everyone working for us at the portal site immune to any level of mental influence, possession, poison, and disease on top of that.

I don't think you'll find many demon princes in a hurry to take a deep dive into an unknown hell in the first place either. If one did then they'd actually have to fight the army we station there and the heavy hitters of our own drawn to defend it.

Edit:

It was emphasized to us multiple times that Sanctuary's magic wasn't better or worse, just different. I don't think the entire planet is sitting on less power than a single global power on earth, especially one that's not even a super power.

For a multitude of reasons I could see that power not being wholly available for excursions - say major land spirits being our equivalent to demon princes of the level we're talking about here or otherwise having them employed at some critical task - but it should still exist.

Even if you take a position of strict inferiority in all things for the FCF, we also have the actual god we just restored to 100% using the wheel. The reds beat him before, but he didn't have the backing of an army of demonic cyborgs and hell sorcerers back then.

I'd hope he'd have the courtesy to do literally anything at all to help in the event of an attack.
 
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A Mortal would be someone who is purely human with no magical enhancements the which is a very rare concept in a world where everyone's ancestry has a little sentient arachnid, radioactive Dragon King or immortal fungus. That said just because someone has sticky pads that give them -1 DC to climbing does not mean they are meaningfully more powerful than the Theoretical Pure Mortal.
 
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A Mortal would be someone who is purely human with no magical enhancements the which is a very rare concept in a world where everyone's ancestry has a little sentient arachnid, talking spider, radioactive Dragon King or immortal fungus. That said just because someone has sticky pads that give them -1 DC to climbing does not mean they are meaningfully more powerful than the Theoretical Pure Mortal.
Yes, exactly the same thing Yog had said but Uju ignored it.

We have been over this before. You were proven to be wrong and inventing things then. I am not reiterating this again. Nothing in any source says that supernaturals are a minority. You can have your full population be supernatural, which is closer yo what Sanctuary is than the other way. This has even been brought up in story already, when Molly showed "pure mortal" BMI disguise to that labyrinth explorer. Who noted that pure mortals are theoretically suggested, but ate practically unknown.
 
A Mortal would be someone who is purely human with no magical enhancements the which is a very rare concept in a world where everyone's ancestry has a little sentient arachnid, talking spider, radioactive Dragon King or immortal fungus. That said just because someone has sticky pads that give them -1 DC to climbing does not mean they are meaningfully more powerful than the Theoretical Pure Mortal.
Presumably anyone involved in this fight would be more heavily enhanced than that right?

Though I think the start of this discussion was if our people would be universally susceptible to abilities that supernaturals get to roll against but get to dunk on mortals without a contest. For the purposes of those abilities how far from baseline do you need to be to be allowed whatever dice you happen to have?
 
Presumably anyone involved in this fight would be more heavily enhanced than that right?

Though I think the start of this discussion was if our people would be universally susceptible to abilities that supernaturals get to roll against but get to dunk on mortals without a contest. For the purposes of those abilities how far from baseline do you need to be to be allowed whatever dice you happen to have?

For the purpose of those abilities most of the civilian population is mortal, practically no one in the military is because they can always become Fomori.
 
Yes, we can send our minions with the wizards along with a phone so that if necessary our cyber devil can warn us and can enter and leave our kingdom directly there. While we get more essence.

@DragonParadox I remember that it was Carlos' wish to be able to fight against the monsters and the darkness of the world and during all this he was not scared by anything from Molly, he did not pretend but he really was not scared. How is he taking this series of actions of hers as someone who was by her side from the beginning? Did his interest in her increase or stay the same after seeing us discover and root out corruption in the Council, face a Lord of the Outer Night and save a god, all one after the other?
@DragonParadox you forgot to answer my question.
 
A Mortal would be someone who is purely human with no magical enhancements the which is a very rare concept in a world where everyone's ancestry has a little sentient arachnid, radioactive Dragon King or immortal fungus. That said just because someone has sticky pads that give them -1 DC to climbing does not mean they are meaningfully more powerful than the Theoretical Pure Mortal.
How wode spread and common is magical practical education in the Courts? From how it seems to be portrayed, I would expect that most people, or at least adult professionals, have at least one dot in at least one Path.
 
I don't expect anything to happen to it in an hour but I do think there's a significant possibility that uprooting the demonic mold thing will invite combat which may involve civilians which will require even more motes to properly deal with.

[X]Plan Marathon
-[X]Ask the Wardens to wait for an hour: +4m of Essence
-[X]After this, return to Sydney to secure the black mold first
-[X]Molly: Prepare meals for everyone in Last Station, then step over to Sanctuary and bring over additional forces to guard the prisoner and the trainee Wardens while you're away: 0m
-[X]Sophia: Put additional Sanctuary forces on alert for deployment to Last Station and elsewhere, then return to help Molly
-[X]STUNT: You get up and stretch, stiff muscles popping in relief."Security arrangements must be made. For the kids. And others." You confer briefly with Sophia, and she vanishes with a brief wave as you turn back to the wizards. "Its looking to be a long night, and even longer day after that. We're going to have to pace ourselves" You look at Lady Marge "When last did any of you eat anything warm?"
 
@DragonParadox Was the God restored using the Wheel yet? It doesn't seem like the process was described anywhere did it actually happen yet?

It wasn't mentioned that we gained him as an ally by the system but those vampires were mentioned, so I'm wondering as to his status.
 
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Significant means noticeable. Not a majority, not even a plurality.

I checked several dictionnaires:

Here is Cambridge.

Here is Merriam-Webster.

Here is Collins.

On and on it goes.

They all agree on one thing:

Significant mean that it is very important, it is more than just noticeable, it absolutely isn't possible for it to be as much of a minority as what you are implying.

As far as I know, significant is closer to "important" than "noticeable "

It is.
 
@DragonParadox Was the God restored using the Wheel yet? It doesn't seem like the process was described anywhere did it actually happen yet?

It wasn't mentioned that we gained him as an ally by the system but those vampires were mentioned, so I'm wondering as to his status.

Nope, it seems to have struck some kind of precarious equilibrium and no one really wants to tell him to get on with dying.

@DragonParadox you forgot to answer my question.

He seems to be vacillating between smitten, scared and grimly determined depending on where his mind is at the moment.
 
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