Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
What about stuff that can theoretically exist, but just doesn't? Negative Mass, micro-blackholes and whatnot, stuff that physics says should be able to exist, but we can't find any examples of or think of any (nonmagical) way to make?
[X] Plan Trust but Verify
-[X] Using current scene as a focus, check who the spirits present in the scene are loyal to, barring magically enforced obedience
--[X] If they are genuinely loyal to Lasciel (or some other undisputable evil), consume them
---[X] Use the crown on them before consumption to find the locations of all beings currently bound by Lasciel
--[X] If they are not, Sophia tries to break their bonds
Simplicity. Smart matter is essentially hyper-advanced nanomachines, which we'd have to define the abilities and limits of. The stuff we're talking about making is conceptually and mathematically simple, even if actually making it isn't possible with RL-tech.
*shrug*
She was peddling influence anyway. Thats what Whampires do.
And that at least is something the Library has experience with mitigating.
Of course, Lara is a Whampire.
Nothing we know says that Kuejin mechanics work for her, and to our knowledge, neither does anything the Kuejin elder knows either. So its a test, of resolve, of character, of personality.
Break The Bonds:
W20 said:
Roll Man+Leadership at DC(11-Target's Willpower).Book of Auspices said:
1) Harry has been to Sanctuary. He knows what we have. Man's not stupid.
And an offer absolutely is intrusive; you're at the point of having Molly, a high school senior, implying that a thirty-something year old man almost twice her age does not know how to manage his own life and priorities.
2) I did go to Uni, Yog. I know how it works.
However? This isnt a single person, or a small group, going to school for education. This is a nationstate level information-gathering operation by a multi-species polity with an educated population three to five times the size of China or India, and a base technological level several decades ahead of Dresdenverse Earth.
Our people listening to Earth lectures? Are not college freshmen in their 101 classes, they are qualified experts in the field vetting someone else's classes for any insights they may have missed.
This shit is sufficiently trivial that it wouldnt even make it onscreen, and there's frankly little technological insight to be acquired.
New perspectives on biology? Probably.
Chemistry and physics? Computer tech? Material science? Nah.
The Arts and Humanities people will be having a field day, though.
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1) Harry often does not fully grasp the implications of things, or take advantage of them. He doesn't have background for it.
2) I very, very strongly disagree. On all accounts:
2.1) Because it's a relatively large scale long term (4 to 10 years minimum) operation across multiple nations it requires organizing, security, and likely at least some spycraft. We would need to find volunteers, provide them with backgrounds to enter universities, provide them with security and means of extraction
2.2) Engineering, including computer engineering, would be the stuff that is most divergent and, thus, useful to learn. Our techbase is divergent enough that we don't have mechanical locks. That's unlikely to be the single glaring difference. I fully expect different metallurgy and material science, entirely different computer tech (more advanced, yes, but different). The fields of geology, astrophysics, cosmology, anthropology, planetary science should be vastly divergent or completely absent. Advanced math should also be different, because it's plainly strange to expect it to develop in a completely similar way (i.e. for both civilizations to solve the same theorems and to develop similar methods and tools). In engineering, rocket science and everything to do with subnautical engineering should be useful and novel. I am not sure if our Courts would have large scale particle accelerators in the same way Earth does.
That is not to say we would be the only ones learning. We obviously have more advanced medicine, and fundamentally we incorporate magic into our understanding of physics, approaching motonic science. We should have math that Earth doesn't have, better biology, almost certainly far more advanced fission and possibly fusion science, advanced material science, and chemistry in some topics at least.
2.3) While I don't question you going to the university, your trivialization of obtaining advanced skills and knowledges is perplexing to me, because this plainly isn't how it (most effectively) works
2.4) You are also failing to address socialization and societal infiltration angles. By going through top level universities, our people will gain connections, and established backgrounds that would make it far easier to roll out the changes, and technologies we want.
Beyond the scope of mortal magic. You are going to want Exalted Sorcery for that.
Respectfully disagree.
He's an adult man of 32 years of age, a trained wizard, sometime Winter emissary and licensed PI who is currently a paramilitary commander in an ongoing war. He literally makes his living as a trained investigator and observer. He's neither ignorant nor a baby. He's here due to a set of choices he made with his eyes open.
This suggestion, IMO, verges on patronizing and ignoring reasonable boundaries between adults. Boundaries that even Uriel and Michael respect. Teenagers get into clashes over this sort of thing.
You are proposing the equivalent of an Asian parent stereotype nagging a child about enrolling in premed because "You're wasting your potential" and "I know whats best for you better than you do."
Only, we dont even have the figleaf of that sort of relationship.
1)No it does not. Earth has the same knowledge and techbase the world over. The basic assumptions are the same.
Physics in UChicago is the same as physics in Tsinghua University. The waterfalls at Niagara, Victoria and Iguazu all obey the same laws. The vast majority of cutting edge computer chip design happens in the US, the bulk of cutting edge computer chip manufacture happens in Taiwan.
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2) Sanctuary doesnt currently have mechanical locks =/= we dont know how mechanical locks work or have never used them in the past. Thats a lot like saying that since we dont have mechanical computers IRL, we have never had them before or dont understand how they work.
We took the Hell feature for Advanced Tech/Magic.
We dont have to ask whether Earth tech is better than ours; the answer is always no.
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3)Strongly disagree. If I take an immigrant doctor from Namibia and put him in a Western medical system, he doesnt have to go back to freshman year of premed(US) or Year 1 of medical school(UK) to understand the working mechanisms of mRNA vaccines or the application of brachytherapy.
I fail to see why you think that Sanctuary academic specialists, with the equivalent of decades of experience in their chosen fields, will have any problems familiarizing themselves with a techbase thats explicitly several decades behind their own.
Even without the help of the same training enhancers that Daniel and Olivia have been using.
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4) We dont send people to university to develop cover identities; thats a waste of our time and resources.
Similarly, we dont send them to university to network.
Sanctuary is a nationstate. Nationstate resources.
If we wanted to get into this, we'll set up a bunch of VC funds and academic grants to back a bunch of frontmen and buy our influence and networking like any other set of eccentric billionaires or nationstates.
Patrons with money or nationstate resources have never had trouble networking in the academic field, whether they finished college or not. Ask Bill Gates.
Anyway, thats beyond this game's scope. Which is not a nationbuilder, but an urban fantasy game.
Im here to stab Outsiders, not to build empires.
I don't feel qualified to talk about networking angle, but I feel this is not the point. Sanctuary tech is generally better than Earth equivalent, but this is not simple "more advanced", it's divergent. From our interactions with that explorer (don't remember her name from the top of my head) I got the impression that mechanical locks simply didn't happen in the techline there, probably the spiritbound equivalent developed first and took over. Sanctuary techbase is also built upon completely different principles, because our folks include magic in their scientific paradigm. If we want to leverage Sanctuary resources in the optimal manner we will have to identify any gaps in understanding between our scientific community and Earth's that might be and bridge them. It's the same mechanism as with our spirit binders - we can't use their full potential until they get familiar with how things work on Earth.
1) Harry might be able to comprehend that we are a monarch Harry might even be able to comprehend the scale of the resources Sanctuary brings to the table but everything I've ever read about Harry Dresden says he will never ever ever ask for any level of resources to be expended upon himself without extreme prodding like say his daughter being kidnapped and about to be sacrificed in a blood ritual level prodding. We had to force him to be paid for a job in last station so we could set up the lights using partial Magic interchangement for electricity. The man despite being capable doesn't particularly feel the need or rather doesn't like asking for help which is fine but that doesn't mean we shouldn't offer.
2) Having advanced technology doesn't mean that you have nothing to learn. That way lies extreme arrogance and folly. It also seems like you are explicitly ignoring the point of there are entire fields of science that Sanctuary would never need to interact with or couldn't interact with for a variety of reasons that can all affect technological development in new ways.
3) Coming back to ignoring the point again it doesn't matter that the tech bases is multiple decades behind when the Tech base for any Submarine, Space, Biology of non-extremophile life forms and probably many more are decades if not centuries ahead of sanctuary because Sanctuary has no ability to study those things in the depth that Earth has.
Then you are just disregarding the fact it is both statistically and anecdotally proven that it's way faster to accumulate knowledge when it is being directly taught to you than it is to try and study it yourself especially when you have a knowledgeable source disseminating that information and answering any emerging questions rather than having to stop studying and then go search up the answer and then come back to studying.
4) This one is just flat out a lie you don't like spending the resources like that but explicitly because they are our citizenry and not insignificant portion of them are held by religious belief to us so any connections they make are of explicit benefit to us. Even if they weren't religiously held to us or loyal to us the explicit benefit to a polity that we control having more access to scientific information that was completely unavailable for is plainly obvious. Exalted is about both inherently you are here for just stabbing Outsiders which is fine for you but please don't pretend like that's why anyone actually just plays exalted if you wanted to just stab things you would play D&D or Pathfinder or any number of purely combat focused games without a Politics, Finance, Law, Expression and Science abilities that matter.
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No need to strawman me. I am proposing offering options that he might not realize he has.
Respectfully, they aren't, and that you think so betrays your utter ignorance. Courses offered in different universities in different countries differ greatly. You don't get the same education in one university as in another. There are no "physics courses". Not really. Physics is too big for that. And no, you can't get the same physics education in two different universities. Broad base can be similar, but specialized knowledge? Hell no. It doesn't work like that at all.
What you are talking about is school level education. What I am talking about is university level professional education.
This is wrong, and has been demonstrated as wrong. Mechanical locks seem to be unknown in our Courts. Our tech and science base is divergent enough that certain things can be known on Earth and completely unknown in the Courts. Advanced means that we are broadly better, but it doesn't mean that we are better at everything.
We might skip straight to masters courses in some (perhaps many) cases.
Sanctuary is a hermit kingdom that cannot apply state level resources and voters repeatedly voted against doing things to counter that.
Vote closed
I'll do a Sanctuary tech informational update either today or tomorrow.
I'll do a Sanctuary tech informational update either today or tomorrow.
Hermit kingdom has implications that don't apply to this sort of thing. It's a planet, the FCF is as much a hermit kingdom as Earth is for not being in contact with aliens.
The tech differences are weird in places, but the difference seems less like one of decades and more like one of centuries. Shit like ubiquitous cybernetics is basically a pipe dream for example.
Not having a highway to the mortal world doesn't stop our people from being very good at what they do and having all the advantages to compound their lead.
Arc 13 Post 48: Warped Reflections
Warped Reflections
14th of February 2007 A.D.
After checking to make sure the spirits aren't the sort to do evil even without compulsion you give your other self the nod only for her to.. hesitate. "We can do this," it feels weird to say that aloud since the 'you' that is speaking would not have needed it. But then her magic is not yours, Song of Perennial Hours Intrinsically Ascending does not bear the crown and sword, she has your memories but not your power.
Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 16/18 (Crown Question)
Hers is the song of the rain pattering against the leaf and the sleepy caw of the amber-wing seeking its nest with a full belly, the ever-changing chime of the twin-sou crab as it scurries between the world of light and the world of dark, never quite at home and yet at home everywhere. No queen is she, but a healer, a mendicant, a seer, able to understand and in understanding empathize and in empathizing let loose. "How can a liar make true things?" Horrified you watch as the winged spirits do not take flight but become even more spindle-shaped, threatening to burrow inside Embermane seeking some dark purpose, but if Sophia is shaken she does not show it. "She lied to you, you are not bound."
The six spirits rise as one on uneven wings sharp as knives that form a circle, though the configuration of their bodies is such that the air should not hold them it does. As they start to spin, faster and faster and faster you see a black surface polished like glass, a scrying mirror shattered in their binding and in that mirror the only thing reflected is the Sword your father wears, a shard of light painful to behold. They are trying to say something... maybe even succeeding, but of course the spirit in the sword does not and cannot speak save at the most dire of times, for it was not made to give counsel, but leverage.
So, gingerly, you reach out to turn the mirror, trying to get it to face you, either you will do. But it stops on Harry, still floating in place. "How am I supposed to know? What do you do?" He pauses for a moment.
"No don't..." you try to warn him, too late. Of course the spirits, so long bound, would have heard: 'what are you for?' And that is how you end up getting hit center mass with a three-foot tarnished silver mirror trying to take off Harry's head. Thanks to the armor it doesn't hurt, but you play into it anyway, stumbling backwards as if in pain. Even if they are not good at talking, which depending on where Lasciel got them they might not be, spirits do have a sense of empathy and an understanding of what it means to take a hit for someone else. Unlikely they will have seen the Fallen do that.
Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 15/18 (Empathy Excellency)
The sound of what you can only describe as electrified wind chimes rings in your mind overplayed with confusion and dread. Oh... they thought you were some kind of Denarian, hence trying to talk to the Sword and then the wizard. After clearing up that misunderstanding they explain that they would rather like being a scrying mirror again and 'would the wise one like that?'
Harry lives with Tiffany, something tells you that would not work out.
What do you sugest?
[] Lydia could keep them safe behind their wards, though she's unlikely to need a scrying mirror which might make the spirits within grow discontent
[] You're sure someone in the Order of the Cauldron could use a helpful scrying mirror even if it feels a little dark
[] Try to convince them to come to Sanctuary (Charisma Etiquette 7 Successes Necessary)
[] Maybe things can work out with Harry and Tiffany (Charisma Etiquette 10 Successes Necessary)
[] Write in
OOC: With all the times Harry rolled social dice in this quest he has to botch sometimes. And yes the Spirit Mirror counts as a Creature of Darkness.
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[X] You're sure someone in the Order of the Cauldron could use a helpful scrying mirror even if it feels a little dark
Mostly because they honestly could a divination tool with Spirit help is not to be underestimated and well magic users in Chicago are still at risk from the White permanent presence and the Reds roving presence in Chicago not to mention the fomor. Just being able to divine on a member when they miss a meeting is enough to set off alarm Bells especially when you cannot actually Divine their location because they're in a warded place. It massively increases their ability to retain and protect members if or when they go missing they can be found even if they go missing purely from mundane ends.
Mostly because they honestly could a divination tool with Spirit help is not to be underestimated and well magic users in Chicago are still at risk from the White permanent presence and the Reds roving presence in Chicago not to mention the fomor. Just being able to divine on a member when they miss a meeting is enough to set off alarm Bells especially when you cannot actually Divine their location because they're in a warded place. It massively increases their ability to retain and protect members if or when they go missing they can be found even if they go missing purely from mundane ends.
- Location
- Who knows?
[X] You're sure someone in the Order of the Cauldron could use a helpful scrying mirror even if it feels a little dark
Molly here to drop another goodie on their heads.
Molly here to drop another goodie on their heads.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[x] You're sure someone in the Order of the Cauldron could use a helpful scrying mirror even if it feels a little dark
-[x] introduce them to the least god of the threshold you made seemingly so long ago, maybe they would meeting someone else with such purity of purpose
-[x] introduce them to the least god of the threshold you made seemingly so long ago, maybe they would meeting someone else with such purity of purpose
@DragonParadox does Clairvoyance mesh with scrying mirror as a tool? I am thinking either Lydia or Olivia.