Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

To make clear: much as I have come to at least respect Library of Congress, Solar Exaltation falling under their control is also unacceptable.
I agree, we have an action to contact LoC in the plan that won, so there we can mention that besides we are planning to control the supernatural parts of Boston, that the Cult of Ra is under our protection and we will not take actions from them to control them, in whatever form, lightly.
 
Solar Exaltation falling under their control is also unacceptable.
How do you imagine it? Are they going to strongarm a Solar? An out of the gate Solar without even freebie points can murder a whole warehouse full of Red Court vampires, and that's starting as a prisoner chained to a table.

There is a good reason Dragonblooded just murder Solars on sight instead of trying to use them as weapons in their political games.
 
While I enjoyed the cleaning I am also narrowing my eyes dubiously towards Silk and these spies, if she or they try this blackmail or influence thing when we build our embassy in Vegas I will vote to throw our swords at them without a doubt.

I don't care if this is normal in diplomacy, if the LoC approves this against us, we will use our Crown to make their lives difficult

Keep in mind Silk is a warlock, she invaded the minds of others over and over. It's just that she got lucky twice: once for having a derangement that can be pacified with Red Court Venom and twice for meeting a G-Man with a supply of the stuff that does not involve working for the Red Court. In terms of character she is a empathetic and in some way very helpful person... who happens to think mind control is OK in certain circumstances as she cleans up the streets of the Blood Trade.

YMMV on what that makes her, villain, hero or anything between, though I will say I was a bit sad during the Vegas Arc that Molly did not get a chance to really interact with her because there are a lot of parallels there
 
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How do you imagine it? Are they going to strongarm a Solar? An out of the gate Solar without even freebie points can murder a whole warehouse full of Red Court vampires, and that's starting as a prisoner chained to a table.

There is a good reason Dragonblooded just murder Solars on sight instead of trying to use them as weapons in their political games.

In the Age of Sorrows the DBs kill Solars because they are conditioned to kill Solars, most of them believe the Anathema BS. Outside of the walls of the Imperial Palace, the walls of the Heptagram an the highest and most prestigious monasteries of the Immaculate order all of them think that the Solars are posessed by Super Demons that stole power from the Sun or some such. That is why they do not try to turn them. Their Sidereal masters do try to use Solars, at least if they are Gold Faction, the Cult of the Illuninated exists for a reason. Baby Solars are not that hard to coral if you know what you are doing and especially if they happen to have intimacies that favor you.
 
Baby Solars are not that hard to coral if you know what you are doing and especially if they happen to have intimacies that favor you.
Well, yes, if you are a Sidereal and have one of the best intelligence agencies in the world and superpowers made to work with information you have a good leg up on managing people.

It's much harder when you need to use more mundane means and Exaltation can very well just go to some guy in Africa instead of US.
 
Keep in mind Silk is a warlock, she invaded the minds of others over and over. It's just that she got lucky twice: once for having a derangement that can be pacified with Red Court Venom and twice for meeting a G-Man with a supply of the stuff that does not involve working for the Red Court. In terms of character she is a empathetic and in some way very helpful person... who happens to think mind control is OK in certain circumstances as she cleans up the streets of the Blood Trade.

YMMV on what that makes her, villain, hero or anything between, though I will say I was a bit sad during the Vegas Arc that Molly did not get a chance to really interact with her because there are a lot of parallels there
Oh I know, I have no problem with her using mind control like that, especially with such targets refusing to change (assuming someone keeps an eye on her so she doesn't jump in at the deep end). I was talking about if, after our embassy and citizens show up in Vegas, her handlers might ask her to gather information from us, if she uses mind control on our people or tries to blackmail them with it, Molly really won't be calm, because it will hit both her trauma button and her responsibilities as queen and goddess.

I doubt Loc will do that, so far they've shown themselves to be very smart and adept at not poking the 800kg killer polar bear that Molly is for no good reason, but if it happens, I won't vote to hold back.
 
Well, yes, if you are a Sidereal and have one of the best intelligence agencies in the world and superpowers made to work with information you have a good leg up on managing people.

It's much harder when you need to use more mundane means and Exaltation can very well just go to some guy in Africa instead of US.

Oh sure, much harder, though it is worth keeping in mind that outside of Autochthonia no one in Exalted can match the technological and institutional interconnection of the modern age. The Scarlet Empress would take one look at a spy satellite and fall in love so hard she might bring about a new House nine months later. :V
 
Oh I know, I have no problem with her using mind control like that, especially with such targets refusing to change (assuming someone keeps an eye on her so she doesn't jump in at the deep end).
Frankly, it's strange that wizards don't use binding vows to manage mental contamination - either using their own magic, which they could do, or just making a deal with the fae or other supernatural creature related to those. There are few among mythologies around the world that manage Geas and similar stuff.

Basically either make it impossible for you to slip or just place clear and brutal consequences in case you do to discourage future you from it. And in case you do slip there would be a supernatural cop gunning for your ass.
 
How do you imagine it? Are they going to strongarm a Solar? An out of the gate Solar without even freebie points can murder a whole warehouse full of Red Court vampires, and that's starting as a prisoner chained to a table.

There is a good reason Dragonblooded just murder Solars on sight instead of trying to use them as weapons in their political games.
1) They don't actually need to release it to use it. Our own exaltation has been used as a superweapon before coming to us

2) Solar exaltations have been prophesied and predicted many times in canon. LoC has precogs. It might be possible for them to believe they can successfully try to direct it.
 
It might be possible for them to believe they can successfully try to direct it.
That would require that they know where and what it is when barely anyone in this Age is aware of either. I doubt they have precogs of that level on staff. If it were that easy to be made aware of it the Exaltation would probably have been freed by now as Vegas has been a hotspot for awhile and this statue has been guarding it for even longer.
 
That would require that they know where and what it is when barely anyone in this Age is aware of either. I doubt they have precogs of that level on staff. If it were that easy to be made aware of it the Exaltation would probably have been freed by now as Vegas has been a hotspot for awhile and this statue has been guarding it for even longer.
No, it doesn't. Discovering that there's something meant to empower mortals held by the cult of Ra Descending is easy.
 
OOC: In conclusion the Library won big, cleaned up a lot of the moral support structure for the blood trade. Arlene almost got into deep trouble, but got saved by the Marchawarden who then decided to eliminate the last of Vegas' old order by paying Kinkaid to do the deed instead of having him set a bomb. Normally Lara would be pissed, but Correy was in her shit-list for working with the Old Dragon and after the mess down there she is not all that keen to stick her tail in Vegas, at least not until the waters clear a little so she can take aim
Almost exactly like we wanted, as far as I'm tracking. A shame that Arlene had trouble, but the Library making themselves a fortress city to expand mortal power from and in the process save all the victims of the blood trade is a strong victory for our agenda.
While I enjoyed the cleaning I am also narrowing my eyes dubiously towards Silk and these spies, if she or they try this blackmail or influence thing when we build our embassy in Vegas I will vote to throw our swords at them without a doubt.

I don't care if this is normal in diplomacy, if the LoC approves this against us, we will use our Crown to make their lives difficult
Blackmail is unlikely, but watching each other is a given. As is trying to peddle influence where it seems viable. The most likely approach is a non hostile one involving favor trading and "assistance" getting set up. We need to be careful about what we accept, but only an idiot applies coercion to an amicable and profitable relationship unless they're stone cold certain you're about to become hostile anyway.


We've been pretty scary lately so they might be defensive for a bit, but that's not the same as hostility. It's not even that unreasonable.

I mean suppose you were a high level librarian, say a ~150 year old warding specialist. You poke a neat looking investiture and get back a living demon planet who swears she's friendly. With no background on what an exalt is what would you do?
No, it doesn't. Discovering that there's something meant to empower mortals held by the cult of Ra Descending is easy.
We only knew because we spoke a very dead language and the god-bot decided we had the authority to ask.

Even if they did somehow get that information they'd have to also get some sort of scope for it without the prior knowledge biasing our assumptions on how easy that is to pick out. Which, if they did pull it off, would also clue them into the fact that it's bound up in something that would destroy the continent if triggered.

If they got all that and still went for it the sin eater, not wanting to be blown up or for his charge to get messed with, would almost certainly intervene. I doubt it knows, but also that they could put all that together without it learning too.

I don't think the problem has to be urgent. Not pushing it so means we could move at something closer to a DF timeline and actually enjoy playing with the setting instead of rushing past the point where it makes sense.
 
No, it doesn't. Discovering that there's something meant to empower mortals held by the cult of Ra Descending is easy.
Then why aren't more people aware if it's easy to figure that out? The place the statue is located and the statue itself aren't exactly well hidden.
 
Then why aren't more people aware if it's easy to figure that out? The place the statue is located and the statue itself aren't exactly well hidden.
Because it very much relied on defense through obscurity. The defense which has been destroyed by cult of Ra's participation in Vegas events.
We only knew because we spoke a very dead language and the god-bot decided we had the authority to ask.

Even if they did somehow get that information they'd have to also get some sort of scope for it without the prior knowledge biasing our assumptions on how easy that is to pick out. Which, if they did pull it off, would also clue them into the fact that it's bound up in something that would destroy the continent if triggered.

If they got all that and still went for it the sin eater, not wanting to be blown up or for his charge to get messed with, would almost certainly intervene. I doubt it knows, but also that they could put all that together without it learning too.

I don't think the problem has to be urgent. Not pushing it so means we could move at something closer to a DF timeline and actually enjoy playing with the setting instead of rushing past the point where it makes sense.
I am fairly sure that the release of the shard has been prophesied, which was the whole reason the cult came to Vegas. At least some of cult members know.

We are probably the only ones who know what it is, but the generalities are going to leak.
 
Because it very much relied on defense through obscurity. The defense which has been destroyed by cult of Ra's participation in Vegas events.
The statue has been actively worshiped by a cult. What part of that screams obscurity to you? It has an obvious level of significance in the supernatural world and has been around for some time. If it were easy to tell what it's holding people would know.
 
The statue has been actively worshiped by a cult. What part of that screams obscurity to you? It has an obvious level of significance in the supernatural world and has been around for some time. If it were easy to tell what it's holding people would know.
Everything? It's a small cult led by a two-bit psychometrist in a world of real supernatural powers. They were the Elusive Joe of supernatural organizations. At most, a passing Warden gave them "the talk", but otherwise they are one of a dime a dozen congregations. They are not such anymore.
 
Because it very much relied on defense through obscurity. The defense which has been destroyed by cult of Ra's participation in Vegas events.

I am fairly sure that the release of the shard has been prophesied, which was the whole reason the cult came to Vegas. At least some of cult members know.

We are probably the only ones who know what it is, but the generalities are going to leak.

Not exactly, not in those terms. There's a whole thing about the return of Ra in dark times to fight a terrible evil, but that sort of prophecy is a dime a dozen. There's not a blazing sign telling people to come get their gently used cosmic power here.

Its obscurity isn't really broken either. The black court might know something, but there's not a lot of evidence of how much. Moreover, it clearly has some strong defenses now and was only vulnerable because the whole city was out of control.

The blampire needed us to get his shot on top of that. If someone wants to try stuff now they need to get through all the normal defenses and the attention of the sin eater now that it's active in the community and closely allied to the Ra cult.

There aren't more rumors running around today than there have been for the last hundred years, and it's less vulnerable now in any case.

It's possible to make an argument either way, though I think my position is more reasonable. Unless we're forced to move on it I think we should approach this on the DF timetable of years. If we don't then we aren't even going to really get to see our own impacts on the setting because we'll blow up the plot rushing between major arcs before they catch up with us.

It's just less enjoyable as a story and a game to skip all content other than the boss fights so to speak.
 
At most, a passing Warden gave them "the talk", but otherwise they are one of a dime a dozen congregations. They are not such anymore
Your contradicting yourself here. On one hand your saying that it's easy to tell what the statue is holding if looked into, an object of power to be granted. On the other hand your saying that even as the statue was actively worshiped no one would have looked into it even if they did see a need to look into the cult that worships said statue and thus not realize it's significance since it's apparently "easy".

That doesn't make sense.
 
Not exactly, not in those terms. There's a whole thing about the return of Ra in dark times to fight a terrible evil, but that sort of prophecy is a dime a dozen. There's not a blazing sign telling people to come get their gently used cosmic power here.

Its obscurity isn't really broken either. The black court might know something, but there's not a lot of evidence of how much. Moreover, it clearly has some strong defenses now and was only vulnerable because the whole city was out of control.

The blampire needed us to get his shot on top of that. If someone wants to try stuff now they need to get through all the normal defenses and the attention of the sin eater now that it's active in the community and closely allied to the Ra cult.

There aren't more rumors running around today than there have been for the last hundred years, and it's less vulnerable now in any case.

It's possible to make an argument either way, though I think my position is more reasonable. Unless we're forced to move on it I think we should approach this on the DF timetable of years. If we don't then we aren't even going to really get to see our own impacts on the setting because we'll blow up the plot rushing between major arcs before they catch up with us.

It's just less enjoyable as a story and a game to skip all content other than the boss fights so to speak.
I think I might be communicating it badly. I am not saying "everyone and their grandmother will learn that a Solar Exaltation of Dawn Caste, forged by the hand of King of all Craftsmen Autochton for the War in Heaven in the First Age of Creation, serial number XXX is being held there, ready to be released". Not at all or anything like this. I am saying that:
1) Cult of Ra Descending, as new major players in town, will be investigated in detail by all interested parties. At minimum this involves LoC, and almost certainly White Court. Agents of other organizations, including Outsider aligned ones are also likely to make moves, but less likely to be successful quickly.

2) There was a prophecy that led them here, and was at least partially correct - it predicted a major Outsider plot. Something, I'd like to point out, that Knights of the Cross failed to intervene in. Anything that can predict what seems to be the greatest Outsider attack of the last century is either major, major mojo, or connected to Outsiders itself (and is using insider info). The fact of the prophecy is likely going to be easy to discover, it seems to have been known to the cult members. This alone makes the whole cult, and the object of their worship a target of interest to LoC and other organizations.

3) During the crisis something held by the cult very nearly got released. That is also likely something that likely can be found fairly easily, and I wouldn't bet against various seers detecting the near-release of the shard. Solars are a big deal, after all.

Putting all these points together, I expect cult of Ra Descending to become a target of infiltrators and investigations within the next month, with LoC being first to send agents, both overtly and covertly, White Court second, and everyone else third.
Your contradicting yourself here. On one hand your saying that it's easy to tell what the statue is holding if looked into, an object of power to be granted. On the other hand your saying that even as the statue was actively worshiped no one would have looked into it even if they did see a need to look into the cult that worships said statue and thus not realize it's significance since it's apparently "easy".

That doesn't make sense.
With close investigation in its current condition, I expect it to be easy. I also expect no one to have investigated it closely before. Magical cults and organizations are commonplace, and White Council is stretched very thin. However, since the events of Vegas, the cult became much higher priority target for investigators.
 
The Library has limited resources, and while they've had success with Las Vegas, I can't see that success justifying more resources when the US nearly got its financial and political system blown up by Mikaboshi. I'm sure the highest priority for the LOC right now is figuring out how to prevent supernatural forces from deploying economical/political bombs to cripple America, and Las Vegas being dealt with just means less resources will be allocated in that direction.
 
I'm sure the highest priority for the LOC right now is figuring out how to prevent supernatural forces from deploying economical/political bombs to cripple America, and Las Vegas being dealt with just means less resources will be allocated in that direction.
As far as I understand the only way to do it is to make them interested in keeping America afloat. Because otherwise your options against a foreign immortal manipulator are pretty limited. If Mikaboshi is willing to put the time into it he doesn't even need to invest any power into his puppets - just funneling some resources where he wants would be enough.

The only reason Molly even found them was because he had his agents scuttling about.

Well, maybe if Library was able to monitor his actions, and action of all the other supernatural big players, but it's kinda hard. Even Molly would have trouble with it since she would need to constantly supply new foci for the Crown.
 
I also expect no one to have investigated it closely before. Magical cults and organizations are commonplace, and White Council is stretched very thin. However, since the events of Vegas, the cult became much higher priority target for investigators.
The God-bot may be a tourist attraction of sorts and has its own cult in Vegas. A boiling pot for supernatural and mortal activity alike. People like Charon (or an imposter) along with whatever deity supports the woman we had fix the Thralls and other significant characters like the Dragon and Sineater having been known to keep guard over a breach to the Outside have all been interested or located in Vegas. Attention drawing events have been happening here for awhile.

I find it very hard to believe that something like the statue of Ra a well-known sungod here of all places wouldn't ever have been looked into. It suspends disbelief.
 
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