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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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quantum lurker said:
Didn't we ambush Mikaboshi's goons following a similar strategy - what's different now that makes that unlikely to happen?
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They took off from a known base, using known Mikaboshi kit, and we had satellite imagery to track them.
We would using a private plane incognito that we hired locally.
Thats the point.

fictionfan said:
I feel like our plane getting shoot down counts as a encounter.
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Molly has BMI to hide herself, and Nergui can shield himself from casual detection.
Lydia is nowhere as obvious as Molly is.
 
[X] Translate directly from urban sprawl into the Wicked City, the most magically direct, but it will require you getting on a plane, Chicago does not have any connections

I wonder if we could use a Way or Calibration Gate to get to other cities with connections instead of a plane?
 
quantum lurker said:
[X] Translate directly from urban sprawl into the Wicked City, the most magically direct, but it will require you getting on a plane, Chicago does not have any connections

I wonder if we could use a Way or Calibration Gate to get to other cities with connections instead of a plane?
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Calibration Gate costs too much in Essence, and wont get you to other Earth cities.
A Way, yes.
But that risks random encounters in the NeverNever.

The alternative is Nergui using the same Tapestry trick he used to get to Last Station to take us to the city.
Tapestry 7 should do it, I think, assuming he has it; as an Ancestor, he has the Dharma tier to qualify:
Dragon Chariot
Most practitioners of Tapestry must travel by themselves
when riding the dragon. Masters of the Discipline can not
only travel more easily, but they can take companions along
for the journey.

System: This power is similar to Ride the Dragon (Kindred
of the East, p. 104), but the difficulty of the centering roll is
only 6. Furthermore, the character may allocate successes
either to the distance traveled, or to carrying people besides
himself along for the ride. For each success allocated to
carrying others, the number of persons who can travel
doubles (for one success, two people - the Kuei-jin and one
other - for two successes, four people; and so on). The Kuei-
jin invoking this power need not necessarily travel himself;
more than one ancestor has "banished" troublesome
Cathayans to other locales with the Dragon Chariot.
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Yog said:
The vote option literally says that he is very familar with it, likely from the many times he used it
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Point of correction:
[] Take the Ebon path from the underworld, Nergui knows it well
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Knows it well doesnt mean he's up to date with present conditions, or that its safe for him.
Even the Hells arent unchanging.

I mean, to be clear: Molly wrote the Big Book of Yomi Wan.
I'd give it good odds that she could navigate it on her own more or less safely.

Doing so without drawing attention to the Big Fish On The Move(TM) and thus prewarning the target is the issue.
Because in both the Dresdenverse and WoD, unaided humanform flight is pretty rare, and is invariably a marker of some very scary dude in the area.
 
uju32 said:
Knows it well doesnt mean he's up to date with present conditions, or that its safe for him.
Even the Hells arent unchanging.

I mean, to be clear: Molly wrote the Big Book of Yomi Wan.
I'd give it good odds that she could navigate it on her own more or less safely.

Doing so without drawing attention to the Big Fish On The Move(TM) and thus prewarning the target is the issue.
Because in both the Dresdenverse and WoD, unaided humanform flight is pretty rare, and is invariably a marker of some very scary dude in the area.
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You are jnventing meaning where there is none to suit your position. "He knows it well" = he's well familiar with it.

Disguising ourselves as a random akuma / fae beast with flight capability is easy
 
[X] Uju32

Running along a road to hell seems like it'll burn more essence, and frankly we don't need more things to get packed into this event.

I do believe CCG will be profoundly unsubtle, but so is our nuke. This is going to be a malfean stealth assault anyway.
 
fictionfan said:
Perfect defense just have the problem of not syncing with just how much we have invested in getting huge scene length soak. We have limited essanse so we are often going to have to pick between using our soak charms or reserving essanse for perfect defense. Even the Mighty Joe Chung inventor and greatest proponent of paranoia combat agreed that Infernal soak build is very viable.
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Perfects are for when you are dealing with things that our soak just can't deal with, or when we are badly enough injured that a bad soak roll will kill us. Soak and dodge will still be primary defense.

fictionfan said:
Ancient sorcery death of Obsidian Butterflies is a better AOE then Sand strike blast. It is completely ridiculous how much damage it can do. Especially if we get the Scepter charm to reduce Sorcery cost and DC.
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Sandstrike is cheaper, and has a single target mode, and I think faster.
Things to consider.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I think our perfect attack would be a better offensive purchase to start with. We're picking fights where that sort of thing is very helpful if it isn't outright necessary.
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I'm pretty sure infernals do not have a perfect attack they have a lot of damage effects after successful hits or outright damage effects like Sinner Boiling Stare but there's no actual you hit no matter what effects. Though I could be wrong.
 
I like Sandstrike Blast for its versatility and efficiency. Super powerful Charms and Sorceries are nice to have, but not particularly useful if you can only use them under perfect conditions or at great expense.

Sandstrike Blast is cheap to activate, lasts for the whole scene, IIRC, and has both single target and AoE options. More often than not, we're going to want quick, cheap effects that don't inflict massive collateral damage to the surroundings, our allies, or innocent bystanders.
 
Degorium said:
I'm pretty sure infernals do not have a perfect attack they have a lot of damage effects after successful hits or outright damage effects like Sinner Boiling Stare but there's no actual you hit no matter what effects. Though I could be wrong.
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This came up early in the thread and SBS was ruled to be our perfect attack:
DragonParadox said:
Yep, this is a perfect attack as far as I can see.
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It has some weird bits compared to other perfects, but in exchange it gets to do this:
DragonParadox said:
Sinner-Boiling Stare is indeed point and click 'you take damage', they do not get to roll soak. The target does need to have personally slighted you somehow. It is basically weaponized affront.
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BronzeTongue said:
This came up early in the thread and SBS was ruled to be our perfect attack:

It has some weird bits compared to other perfects, but in exchange it gets to do this:
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But it isn't you can just outright Miss. You can just not roll the successes necessary to hit the person never mind the person possibly being immune to it if they have a stamina of eight or higher like we can on a successful roll of Mo kung. On top of the fact it needs to be an affront your boiling them for. It's a perfect damage effect but it's not in perfect attack by any stretch of the imagination because you can miss you can fail to hit them with it and they can just be immune to it.
 
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Where would we be flying a plane to exactly? Does the Wicked City have monitored and controlled air-space?
 
Degorium said:
But it isn't you can just outright Miss. You can just not roll the successes necessary to hit the person never mind the person possibly being immune to it if they have a stamina of eight or higher like we can on a successful roll of Mo kung. On top of the fact it needs to be in front of your boiling them for. It's a perfect damage effect but it's not in perfect attack by any stretch of the imagination so because you can miss you can fail to hit them with it and they can just be immune to it.
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Perfect attacks bypass all but perfect defenses, but you still have to roll damage for them. You could theoretically not roll enough to hurt someone with every perfect attack in the book, it's just unlikely.

Using a perfect attack with a weapon that deals fire damage to something immune to fire would similarly fail because perfect attacks bypass defense rather damage resistance effects most of the time. Some sorta work the other way around which only matters because Holden broke defense primacy.

SBS is different in that it bypasses both; you can't miss with it and the target isn't allowed their soak or similar boosted damage resistance. It pays for this is target limits and in using a straight willpower roll, which makes it very difficult to boost compared to the pools other exalts can throw around for perfects.

It's still very, very, good though because of its piercing properties. You can't miss and they don't really get to resist the same way they would against almost anything else. That's what it means to just roll against a DC and add that much damage to their health track instead of making an attack roll followed by a damage one.

Also, "just" having stamina 8+ is ridiculously rare. Even super tanky critters typically use soak boosts because they're easier to get. This is an AtP type situation where the flat stat measurement makes things much more effective. We hit that with Steel Skin because Molly is an exalt who's cheating really hard.

Even then with difficulty reducers the floor for immunity is much higher. If we ever really want to kill someone they better avoid the open sky and have a resting stamina of 11 or we'll still be able to fry them.

BoredMan said:
Where would we be flying a plane to exactly? Does the Wicked City have monitored and controlled air-space?
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I thought it was basically just telling us we need to travel to a place with a connection, because we need to open the way in the middle of urban sprawl. Not that we'd be taking the plane to the wicked city.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Perfect attacks bypass all but perfect defenses, but you still have to roll damage for them. You could theoretically not roll enough to hurt someone with every perfect attack in the book, it's just unlikely.

Using a perfect attack with a weapon that deals fire damage to something immune to fire would similarly fail because perfect attacks bypass defense rather damage resistance effects most of the time. Some sorta work the other way around which only matters because Holden broke defense primacy.

SBS is different in that it bypasses both; you can't miss with it and the target isn't allowed their soak or similar boosted damage resistance. It pays for this is target limits and in using a straight willpower roll, which makes it very difficult to boost compared to the pools other exalts can throw around for perfects.

It's still very, very, good though because of its piercing properties. You can't miss and they don't really get to resist the same way they would against almost anything else. That's what it means to just roll against a DC and add that much damage to their health track instead of making an attack roll followed by a damage one.

Also, "just" having stamina 8+ is ridiculously rare. Even super tanky critters typically use soak boosts because they're easier to get. This is an AtP type situation where the flat stat measurement makes things much more effective. We hit that with Steel Skin because Molly is an exalt who's cheating really hard.

Even then with difficulty reducers the floor for immunity is much higher. If we ever really want to kill someone they better avoid the open sky and have a resting stamina of 11 or we'll still be able to fry them.
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It's not just damage I'm talking about a perfect attack hits with the minimum no matter what Sinner boiling Stare can Just out right fail to hit,
Sinner-Boiling Stare (•••)
Concentrating her ire upon one she feels has wronged her, the Infernal causes all of the liquids in the target's body to come to a boil.
System: Spend a turn in concentration, spend 1
Essence, and roll Willpower against a difficulty of the target's (Stamina + 2). The target must be within the Exalt's line of sight, and must be someone that the Infernal feels has wronged her in some way, be it grand or petty; even such a minor offense as cutting the Exalted off in traffic or leaving her hanging on a high-five is sufficient. The target suffers one level of aggravated damage for each success rolled as they cook from the inside out; mortals are instantly killed outright if even a single success is rolled.
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Having stamina 8 is rare that is true but it's not like we go around trying to boil mortals. off the top of my head their are elder reds and whites and jades as well that can have a stamina over eight. Sinner Boiling stare can just not hit a target even if they don't or can't defend themselves in anyway. Even if by probability we are extremely unlikely to miss the fact probability plays a part at all is why it isn't a perfect attack.

Edit: For example
Accuracy Without Distance (•••)
The Solar may close her eyes before striking, if she desires; she aims with her heart, kills with her will.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence when making an attack. The attack automatically hits, no matter how well the opponent defends or how poorly the Exalted rolls; if the dice indicate that the attack should not strike true, then it hits anyway, with no extra successes. Accuracy Without Distance can't strike through a perfect defense such as Heavenly Guardian Defense, however, nor can it strike a target if there's simply no way to reach them (such as if they're on the other side of a wall, or outside of a gun's maximum firing range).
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Gasp of Dead Gods (•••)
The Abyssal lets inevitability guide her attack, and it always strikes true.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence when making an attack. The attack automatically hits, no matter how well the opponent defends or how poorly the Exalt rolls; if the dice indicate that the attack should not strike true, then it hits anyway, with no extra successes. Gasp of Dead Gods can't strike through a perfect defense such as Death Deflecting Technique, however, nor can it strike a target if there's simply no way to reach them (such as if they're on the other side of a wall, or outside of a gun's maximum firing range).
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If it's just going through the human world and we're using BMI with a private plane we should be fine. In the future though definitely want to avoid flying by plane. Only reason I'm looking at the option now is because I'd rather not open a gate to the FFC in the Wicked City (if we use water travel) and also to try and dodge mote draining encounters.

[X] Translate directly from urban sprawl into the Wicked City, the most magically direct, but it will require you getting on a plane, Chicago does not have any connections
-[X] Trigger BMI before boarding the plane
 
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Degorium said:
It's not just damage I'm talking about a perfect attack hits with the minimum no matter what Sinner boiling Stare can Just out right fail to hit,

Having stamina 8 is rare that is true but it's not like we go around trying to boil mortals. off the top of my head their are elder reds and whites and jades as well that can have a stamina over eight. Sinner Boiling stare can just not hit a target even if they don't or can't defend themselves in anyway. Even if by probability we are extremely unlikely to miss the fact probability plays a part at all is why it isn't a perfect attack.

Edit: For example
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My understanding is that it works like this:

A regular attack:

1) you roll to attack

2) target rolls defense

3) if you have more successes add them as bonus dice to your damage pool and roll it

4) target rolls soak, subtracts successes from damage and adds the remainder to their health track

A perfect attack:

1) Roll attack.

2) Target cannot roll defense, add any successes from 1 to damage pool or roll it flat if you didn't get any.

3) target rolls soak, subtracts successes and adds the remainder to their health track.

SBS:

1) Roll Willpower against difficulty target's stamina + 2

2) Add successes to the target's health track as damage

In this context missing means failing an attack roll, wherever you sent the payload it didn't connect with the target and you didn't get to even try rolling damage. You can quibble about blocking/parrying being damageless hits, but in this case they're functionally the same.

Missing, failing to deal damage, and having that damage soaked are all different things and the distinction matters because they're independent failure points you need to get through.

SBS is a perfect that doesn't get to fish for bonus attack dice in exchange for bypassing the attack and soak failure points entirely. It shares the potential to botch a damage roll with other perfects.

As to the rest, I don't think we've fought anyone with stamina 8 so far. We've fought people with boosted soak, but not that resting soak at that level.
 
I don't see why SBS should be unsoakable, at least for creatures who can soak aggravated damage.

It hits without roll, which is great, and deals damage in level rather than dice, also great.

But someone with Exalted soak, or Fortitude/Iron Mountain should do his partial soak against Aggravated.
Though adding armor would make no sense.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I don't see why SBS should be unsoakable, at least for creatures who can soak aggravated damage.

It hits without roll, which is great, and deals damage in level rather than dice, also great.

But someone with Exalted soak, or Fortitude/Iron Mountain should do his partial soak against Aggravated.
Though adding armor would make no sense.
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On a design level because if you don't then it goes from useful to nearly useless. The pool it uses and mechanics of the attack make it very difficult to really boost and that damage difficulty is pretty painful if the successes also have to go through soak.

Hitting with a 20+ dice perfect attack and then a boosted damage roll with strength/dexterity enhancers is pretty straightforward to get if you're not an infernal. Not having to deal with soak brings it to the lower end of comparable net damage.

It's also not the only effect in the book that does this sort of thing with damage, it's just the only one attached to a perfect attack effect.

Considering the fact that it's the only option available to infernals and pays so much in restrictions I think that's a pretty fair trade.
 
Votes far, not closing yet since there aren't that many votes and it's close.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 17, 2024 at 11:16 AM, finished with 98 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] Take the Ebon path from the underworld, Nergui knows it well
    [X] Translate directly from urban sprawl into the Wicked City, the most magically direct, but it will require you getting on a plane, Chicago does not have any connections
    [X] Use Rendered Villain Dispersal and take your group by way of Sanctuary, rather than flying.
    [X] Translate directly from urban sprawl into the Wicked City, the most magically direct, but it will require you getting on a plane, Chicago does not have any connections
    -[X] Trigger BMI before boarding the plane
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Oh wow we rolled 52 successes total. That is going to hit like a truck. I think I would prefer not going to Tokyo or Seoul to get at Mikaboshi directly so:

[X] Take the Ebon path from the underworld, Nergui knows it well

Gimme the boring option. I also want to see if there is anything we can do about those statues.
 
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