where did you get the idea Mab is anywhere near Incarna level? I could see maybe Mother Winter being Incarna Level, but any incarna would steamroll over her without even noticing she is there. I feel this is a mistake a lot of Dresden files related things make. Mab is dangerous yes but it is shown especially in battlegrounds that she is only really a heavy hitter in the modern day and in ancient times would have only been a small fry. what makes mab dangerous is her cunning not her power.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Rereading
For the same reason that we can get flight cheaper then roof hoping. Infernal Charms aren't well balanced in many ways.
You'd be surprised, but it is apparently somehow a thing. DP once mentioned her being Incarna level.
It is prolly mostly about her being the part of the overall mechanism of the Seasons, not straight up "what could you do" power levels.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
On the subject of how hard it is to spot the Nagg under a vale.
So being blind is +2 difficulty.
Also it occurs to me that we might actually be giving the Nagg too much credit. It is tough, strong, fast, but is it all of of those things at the same time? It is a shapeshifter the times it tanked hits it seems to be in warform. But if it turns into a bird for fast movement it might not be nearly as tough.
Molly might have a real advantage when the fight is in the air.
The Infernal's attacks trail inky contrails that steal the light from the eyes of her foes. System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence. For the next (Essence rating) turns, the Infernal's attacks are stained with darkness. If such an attack strikes an opponent, whether or not it inflicts damage, the target is blinded for the rest of the scene: a cloud of liquid darkness spreads across his eyes, and he raises the difficulty of all actions depending on vision by +2.
Also it occurs to me that we might actually be giving the Nagg too much credit. It is tough, strong, fast, but is it all of of those things at the same time? It is a shapeshifter the times it tanked hits it seems to be in warform. But if it turns into a bird for fast movement it might not be nearly as tough.
Molly might have a real advantage when the fight is in the air.
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- Location
- Germany
Indeed. Also, as a potential strategy:
Buy Seeing is Blindness (3 XP), Death of Obsidian Butterflies Ancient Sorcery (10 XP) and, if we can, one dot of Perception:
Death of Obsidian Butterflies rolls (2 Percpetions + 5 Occult) * 2 + 4 (2 stunt + 2 WHWH) dice at difficulty 3 (-1 BSM, -3 All things Betray, with 3 being lowest possible). That's 16.2 successes on average (I ran the dice pools 100 million times using the following model: 18 dice, success is rolled_value>=3, if rolled_value=10, roll one more dice (only ones, if you roll 10 again, you don't get to roll a third time), and if the new rolled_value>=3 add one more success), and the probability of getting 11 or less successes is 5%. The result probability distribution table is given below:
| total successes | probability | cumulative probability to get from 0 to this amount of successes |
0 | 0 | 0 |
1 | 0 | 0 |
2 | 0 | 0 |
3 | 0 | 0 |
4 | 1.00E-07 | 1E-07 |
5 | 1.22E-06 | 1.32E-06 |
6 | 9.26E-06 | 1.06E-05 |
7 | 6.22E-05 | 7.28E-05 |
8 | 3.15E-04 | 0.000388 |
9 | 0.001324 | 0.001711 |
10 | 0.004614 | 0.006325 |
11 | 0.013355 | 0.01968 |
12 | 0.032243 | 0.051923 |
13 | 0.06497 | 0.116893 |
14 | 0.108831 | 0.225724 |
15 | 0.151412 | 0.377136 |
16 | 0.174161 | 0.551297 |
17 | 0.165257 | 0.716554 |
18 | 0.128892 | 0.845446 |
19 | 0.082609 | 0.928055 |
20 | 0.043549 | 0.971604 |
21 | 0.018914 | 0.990518 |
22 | 0.006824 | 0.997341 |
23 | 0.002027 | 0.999368 |
24 | 0.000506 | 0.999874 |
25 | 0.000104 | 0.999979 |
26 | 1.83E-05 | 0.999997 |
27 | 2.57E-06 | 1 |
28 | 3.90E-07 | 1 |
29 | 2.00E-08 | 1 |
30 | 0.00E+00 | 1 |
31 | 0.00E+00 | 1 |
32 | 0 | 1 |
33 | 0 | 1 |
34 | 0 | 1 |
35 | 0 | 1 |
36 | 0 | 1 |
Assuming naagloshii soaks 10 damage (I think that's the highest value we can expect; an assault shotgun is 8 damage, if I recall correctly, and it can walk through shotgun fire), it still suffers on average 6 lethal damage, 4 aggravated damage (Green Sun Nimbus Flair) and is rendered Blind (Seeing is Blindness). That's -10 health levels, +2 difficulty to all actions based on sight. Then we move to engage in melee. Even assuming it has 20 health levels, that's still half its health gone, and it being rendered blind.
The alpha strike costs us 3 (Spell) + 1 (Occult Excellency) + 1 (All Things Betray) + 1 (Green Sun Nimbus Flair) = 6 essence, fully half our essence pool. When we move to engage in melee we activate Melee excellency, leaving us with 5 essence. We probably use Green Sun Nimbus Flair at least twice more, leaving us with only 3 essence left.
If we buy one additional dot of Perception, the average successes move up to 18, with the probability of rolling no more than 13 successes at 3%; the probability distribution table is given below.
| total successes | probability | cumulative probability to get from 0 to this amount of successes |
0 | 0 | 0 |
1 | 0 | 0 |
2 | 0 | 0 |
3 | 0 | 0 |
4 | 0.00E+00 | 1.1E-07 |
5 | 1.10E-07 | 7.6E-07 |
6 | 6.50E-07 | 6.43E-06 |
7 | 5.67E-06 | 4.21E-05 |
8 | 3.56E-05 | 0.000215 |
9 | 0.000173 | 0.000954 |
10 | 0.000739 | 0.003527 |
11 | 0.002572 | 0.011191 |
12 | 0.007665 | 0.030543 |
13 | 0.019351 | 0.072088 |
14 | 0.041546 | 0.147686 |
15 | 0.075597 | 0.264205 |
16 | 0.11652 | 0.415712 |
17 | 0.151506 | 0.581727 |
18 | 0.166016 | 0.734588 |
19 | 0.15286 | 0.85263 |
20 | 0.118042 | 0.929088 |
21 | 0.076458 | 0.970591 |
22 | 0.041503 | 0.989532 |
23 | 0.018941 | 0.996805 |
24 | 0.007273 | 0.999162 |
25 | 0.002357 | 0.999813 |
26 | 6.51E-04 | 0.999964 |
27 | 1.51E-04 | 0.999994 |
28 | 3.02E-05 | 0.999999 |
29 | 5.18E-06 | 1 |
30 | 7.30E-07 | 1 |
31 | 4.00E-08 | 1 |
32 | 3.00E-08 | 1 |
33 | 0 | 1 |
34 | 0 | 1 |
35 | 0 | 1 |
36 | 0 | 1 |
37 | 0 | 1 |
38 | 0 | 1 |
39 | 0 | 1 |
40 | 0 | 1 |
If we have enough XP to buy Wind-Born stride this turn, we also spend 1 essence to activate it fully in combat, leaving us with 2 XP by the end of encounter. But overall, I think this is doable.
EDIT: And, oh, I forgot we have Transcendent Anathema. So, yeah, that's 10 level of aggravated damage, not 6 lethal + 4 aggravated. Or more. Yeah, it's not going to be walking it off easily.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
Am I the only one who thinks the best charm for fighting the Naagloshii is Sinner-Boiling Stare? DP mentioned earlier in the thread (Although I am not digging that up after how long ago it was) that he thought SBS was the only Perfect Attack in the Infernal kit, it does Agg damage, and its range is line-of-sight. In fact, the charm text specifically "suffers" a number of levels of damage equaling the successes of a Willpower roll at a DC of (target's Stamina+2), so there's an argument to be had that it bypasses soak and the victim's Stamina only matters in setting the difficulty of the roll. So depending on the Naagloshii's Stamina and how much we can set up our difficulty reducers and WHWH, we can potentially do a lot of Agg damage directly to its health bar with no soak. And nothing in WoD likes taking a lot of Agg damage.
Only problem with SBS is it only applies to targets that have wronged us, but between how "cutting the Infernal off in traffic" counts and how much trouble we had because of the Naagloshii harassing and killing Greene and framing Harry, I think he counts.
Granted, there's always the possibility that it has Perfect Defenses, but those have conditions and draw power pretty much universally, and it's away from its seat of power and losing power the longer it stays away, while we can refresh ourselves with a few hours in the tub, so spending a turn and paying 1 essence while it's in line of sight in order to force it to either activate a Perfect Defense or take a bunch of Agg damage is a trade that will almost always favor us.
And this is before wondering if SBS counts as an "attack" for Green Sun Nimbus Flare, in which case we get to give it even more Agg damage if we successfully do damage with SBS.
And all of this can be done with only buying a single 3-dot Boiling Oil charm, for 12 XP.
So, is there something I'm missing or is this a potentially really good strategy? @DragonParadox?
Only problem with SBS is it only applies to targets that have wronged us, but between how "cutting the Infernal off in traffic" counts and how much trouble we had because of the Naagloshii harassing and killing Greene and framing Harry, I think he counts.
Granted, there's always the possibility that it has Perfect Defenses, but those have conditions and draw power pretty much universally, and it's away from its seat of power and losing power the longer it stays away, while we can refresh ourselves with a few hours in the tub, so spending a turn and paying 1 essence while it's in line of sight in order to force it to either activate a Perfect Defense or take a bunch of Agg damage is a trade that will almost always favor us.
And this is before wondering if SBS counts as an "attack" for Green Sun Nimbus Flare, in which case we get to give it even more Agg damage if we successfully do damage with SBS.
And all of this can be done with only buying a single 3-dot Boiling Oil charm, for 12 XP.
So, is there something I'm missing or is this a potentially really good strategy? @DragonParadox?
Here's hoping then.
Sinner-Boiling Stare is indeed point and click 'you take damage', they do not get to roll soak. The target does need to have personally slighted you somehow. It is basically weaponized affront.
Given how petty the reasons given are, I think *you are in my line of sight and blocking my view of what's behind you!* is a valid reason for it.
Given how petty the reasons given are, I think *you are in my line of sight and blocking my view of what's behind you!* is a valid reason for it.
It has to be more than that... a bit more. Maybe you find its monologue rude.
- Location
- Germany
We can't activate GSNF on the same turn we use Death of Obsidian Butterflies, due to the Essence/Round limit.
In fact we can't cast DoOB in one round at all, we need two minimum.
And Transcendant Anathema doesn't stack on our Charms and Spells, just mundane attack, as far as I remember DP deciding on Sandstrike Blast?
Edit:
Also don't forget the Excellence itself and another Essence for Seeing is Blindness.
This is a plan we would be hard-pressed to pull off in two round if we were Essence 5, nevemind 2.
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"You caused someone I care about (positive intimacy: Dresden) to panic" should work well enough, I think. @DragonParadox ?Given how petty the reasons given are, I think *you are in my line of sight and blocking my view of what's behind you!* is a valid reason for it.
Yes, DoOB is a two turn action, but it's 3 Essence, so we should be able to activate GSNF on the second turn, spending 4 essence in total. Not Seeing is blindness, though. Still, it could probably be activated next turn? That would be a delay in effect, not "we can't use it at all"? So, the sequence goes like this (assuming ambush):
Turns 1 and 2: DoOB + either SiB or GSNF
Turn 3: SiB or GSNF following DoOB, Melee excellency, move to engage
Turn 4: Wind-Born Stride to boost speed, GSNF
Turn 5: Renew Melee Excellency, GSNF
It should be getting dead somewhere around here.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Molly has a crush on Harry. It got Harry arrested for a few days. Days that Molly did not get to spend with Harry.
Problem solved.
- Location
- Germany
Don't forget Turn 0, in which we have to activate Occult Excellency.
And if we also wanted to use one of our defensive options, we would already be glowing by Turn 1, which means we can't do that without ruining the possible ambush.
The ambush made with raw DEX on the Stealth roll, against the Perception of an ancient predator. Not in our favor.
I don't think fighting the Naagloshii in our current state, or after one more round of XP-spending is impossible, but I think setting up everything for a perfect alpha strike is far too optimistic.
Better to use our suite of defensive options to utilize our high soak, while our aggravated sword-damage means he can't regenerate as fast as he usually does. If we can stand up to the thing for a few rounds in combat, the odds of one of our allies, preferably Micheal but possibly Harry with a very concentrated Fire-spell against a distracted foe can hit them too.
You are right, but I think I know a workaround. RVD. We wait in ambush in a dispersed state, and start the attack in said state. Magic is usable in RVD state, so this is doable.
If we use enough essence to activate our anima banner while we're RVDed into, for example, Lake Michigan, does that mean that the entire lake glows?
Possibly, yes, and it's going to be hilarious. Just DPE while dispersed in an ocean is going to be super-fun.
If by "be super-fun" you mean "send the entire world (supernatural and mundane) into a complete panic", then sure.
Does "Exists" count?
Does "Exists" count?
Only if you have an intimacy against that particular kind of being... and there is a charm for picking that up if you like.
1) Arc 2 post 58
In this quest, without prep, Mab throws around the same level of dice in social combat as a Ex2 3CD.
And unlike many 3CDs, she isnt just a citykiller, she could wreck nations with one cold front if unopposed.
Just like Titania could do much the same thing.
2)Battlegrounds was mid-summer.
Mab was literally at the very nadir of her power, while Ethniu was at the peak of hers. Mab was not designed to go head to head against Titans, its not her role and they woule outclass her.
But a preference for clever schemes doesnt mean she cant throw them hands at need.
3)Word of Jim is very clear that Mab is one of the most temporally powerful entities in the setting active in the mortal world.
The only people more powerful are in the tier of the Mothers and Angels.
1)Take another look at the hits it tanked during the duel with Dresden. And its forms then.
It turns into a bird for flight; at its first encounter it was keeping pace with Dresden's car by jumping between city buildings.
My assumption, with no evidence, is that mechanically it would be modelled as having some analogues of high tier vampire Fortitude and Ox-Body that are always active regardless of its form.
And thats in addition to regen.
2)The key feats here are "supernaturally fast falcon" and "outrunning the debris of the door it just kersploded"
This fucker is currently much faster than we are. Windborn Stride will close the gap a lot, but Im not sure we will match or exceed it short of a purchase of Rage Recast: Swift Stride at E3.
The key is likely to be asymmetry.
You speak as if the chance to act against a load-bearing element of the setting is an aim in itself.
As opposed to a failure.
Anyway, you're welcome
.But note my exact choice of words as well: Knowledgeable, powerful AND trustworthy. That combination is hard.
Relax one of those criteria, and, well, your pool of potential operatives expands. As does the risk of unexpected consequences.
For example, remember that when someone(probably Maeve, possibly someone else) ran short of trustworthy troubleshooters to do work in Chicago in Small Favor, we got an army of several hundred hobs attacking Union Station in Chicago to attack the Archive's train. Beaucoup collateral damage.
Or the Fomor cantrev-lord in Bombshells who decided to attempt to use a chemical weapon, smuggled in via diplomatic pouch, at a supernatural diplomatic reception in order to attempt to assassinate Marcone in the middle of Chicago.
Potentially thousands of deaths.
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Read the fluff text again. Solid cover negates.
To my recollection(could be wrong)
Soft cover: Breaks line of sight. Smokescreens, sheets of cloth, etc
Hard/solid cover: Provides protection. Walls. Earthworks. Some shields. Etc.
And the naagloshii rolls around with magic forcefields, which counts as either solid cover or additional soak.
Good catch, actually.
Assuming it doesnt have a PD-analogue, which seems unlikely, since it didnt seem to have one in canon.
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Most Fluid Blessing of the Water Dragon allows you to freely shapechange items that have been enchanted with the spell.
How does this interact with, say, turning an item of jewelry into a thin layer of liquid metal?
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