Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

12 meters might not be enough to even break line of sight. It could also be too short a distance to reach a critical destination in time. If each teleportation requires an action to use, but you need to go at least 30 meters and you only have a single action to do it, then you're out of luck.
In all honesty if it takes an action to use we are literally faster than that teleportation already both the extended and regular version if multiple actions need to be taken we can cover 144 meters without even using any essence if we're having trouble covering distance the teleportation wasn't the problem.

Edit: That's at a jog by the way.
 
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Okay one on contact poisons just exist in real life and in Dresden files there's just an outsider material called mordite that just is poisonous so much so that it causes death on contact.
Active defenses and armor. Contact poisons on the face of the stone idol covering our shoulder do nothing. If they have to break armor to touch bare skin they have to get past soak.

Contact poisons that kill you on the spot are rarer than you're presenting them to be, and just demonstrating that an extremely rare magical substance exists which could harm us doesn't actually change the equation here at all.


I'm also not going to quibble about the fact of proper lab procedure just exists I don't know if you ever went to high school chemistry but they taught you how to safely handle chemicals at least mine did, be in place with high ventilation, keep your equipment clean and clear, understand what chemicals you're working with and how they interact
That isn't what I meant and I'm almost certain you know it.

High school lab procedures aren't sufficient to make highly concentrated chlorine gas and not screw up. Doing this safely in significant quantities isn't a trivial task even with the aspects that can be offloaded to civilization as a whole.

It is possible to do this, it is not possible to do it trivially.

That's the over problem with your entire argument, you're not putting enough thought into the practical details of things and just making convenient simplifying assumptions.


It really seems like you have a problem more with Alchemy 1 being capable of doing that rather than my point but that's neither here nor there.
Then why have you consistently pushed it as the basis for super poisons being a threat?

Mundane poisons that could be a problem do exist and we've talked about them, but I just quoted the argument you've been making. It wasn't incidental to your fear mongering then.


So I will reiterate my point we are uniquely vulnerable to poison. I would like to not be hence the marble. I believe none of our opponents are above using poison and are in fact well disposed in the practice of using it.
Mine is that exalts are in fact extra resistant, and all the factors that make using chemical weapons hard in canon are significantly more difficult to overcome when they're involved as well.

It could be a threat, but not with the ease you're suggesting. The fact that people don't do this all the time is instructive on the issues involved.
 
Votes as they stand.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Mar 21, 2024 at 7:42 AM, finished with 142 posts and 10 votes.

  • [X] Plan healing Aggravated Damage and Escape Artist
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● Healing potion
    --[X]●●●● Theia's tears
    --[X]●●●● Escape Potion
    [X] Plan steroids for explorers
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● Body Building
    --[X]●●●● Magic Cleaner
    --[X]●●●● Aelgean Marble
    [X] Plan steroids
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● Theia's tears
    --[X]●●●● Body Building
    --[X]●●●● Aelgean Marble
 
Active defenses and armor. Contact poisons on the face of the stone idol covering our shoulder do nothing. If they have to break armor to touch bare skin they have to get past soak.

Contact poisons that kill you on the spot are rarer than you're presenting them to be, and just demonstrating that an extremely rare magical substance exists which could harm us doesn't actually change the equation here at all.



That isn't what I meant and I'm almost certain you know it.

High school lab procedures aren't sufficient to make highly concentrated chlorine gas and not screw up. Doing this safely in significant quantities isn't a trivial task even with the aspects that can be offloaded to civilization as a whole.

It is possible to do this, it is not possible to do it trivially.

That's the over problem with your entire argument, you're not putting enough thought into the practical details of things and just making convenient simplifying assumptions.



Then why have you consistently pushed it as the basis for super poisons being a threat?

Mundane poisons that could be a problem do exist and we've talked about them, but I just quoted the argument you've been making. It wasn't incidental to your fear mongering then.



Mine is that exalts are in fact extra resistant, and all the factors that make using chemical weapons hard in canon are significantly more difficult to overcome when they're involved as well.

It could be a threat, but not with the ease you're suggesting. The fact that people don't do this all the time is instructive on the issues involved.
I don't care that exalts are extra resistant to poison we have a soak that is measured by three dice against poison it doesn't matter how resistant we are. I'm not fear mongering regular poisons are enough to actually fuck us up considerably more so than anyone with a sword or gun at this time. I would like that to not be the case hence poison armor.

I mentioned the alchemical poisons and just the fact that regular poisons deal a lot of damage I didn't even argue for the prevalence of those things I just believe they are a threat that exists and are more effective than just fighting us and I would prefer they weren't.

You're fucking talking about opportunity cost God damn it this is not how exalted or white wolf games in general are meant to be played you're not meant to go from Adventure to Adventure to Adventure to Adventure you're supposed to have some level of fucking off time to make shit prepare gather equipment or just generally sleep kind of. This is essentially making poison armor I believe it's a good use of time and a recipe sue me.
 
12 meters might not be enough to even break line of sight. It could also be too short a distance to reach a critical destination in time. If each teleportation requires an action to use, but you need to go at least 30 meters and you only have a single action to do it, then you're out of luck.
Psychometric teleportation is strictly within sensory range, which is why I gave Olivia clairvoyance. Absent that, it's line of sight
 
12 meters might not be enough to even break line of sight. It could also be too short a distance to reach a critical destination in time. If each teleportation requires an action to use, but you need to go at least 30 meters and you only have a single action to do it, then you're out of luck.
Wasn't the point to break holds and get out of dog piles?

The full solution here would be to get RtF as well, so that Molly can constantly stay in motion while attacking to make pins hard and use the teleports to break out when someone does manage it. We can't do all that now, but repositioning is a good enough stop gap.
 
That is not actually the case they were throwing around grenades in a space that had nerve gas in it and we specifically disabled / made odd devices out of the grenades before they did any real damage. Then contained and then called people to dispose of the nerve gas before any of it was actually released.
My assumption about someone who ran toward a fight where they knew VX was planned to be released is still not going to be that that person's weakness is poison. Heck, as a voter in hypothetical Nemesis Quest, I'd be complaining to the QM about this "Molly" monster being immune to everything we can do directly. I'd be wrong, but it would be a much more natural conclusion to reach than poison being the key.
 
My assumption about someone who ran toward a fight where they knew VX was planned to be released is still not going to be that that person's weakness is poison. Heck, as a voter in hypothetical Nemesis Quest, I'd be complaining to the QM about this "Molly" monster being immune to everything we can do directly. I'd be wrong, but it would be a much more natural conclusion to reach than poison being the key.
That is a good point. To be honest I don't even think poisons going to be like a common thing or even a multi-occurrence but we are a soak monster build and I see a point of weakness in that soak so I want to close it. The fact that it's better for everyone around us to also possess stones made through this recipe is also good.
 
I would like to note that Molly was never seriously inconvenienced in a fight, and basically steamrolled Dragon
Molly being held in place not once but twice and unable to do anything until she broke out is a serious inconvenience. Harry almost died because she was held in place and couldn't move.
Harry Takes 3 Aggravated Damage -> Now at 3/7

It does not matter than Lydia kicks another of the creatures apart, it does not matter that Tiffany picks up the unconcious Sandra and raises her high into the air, to keep her out of reach of rescue, all that matters is getting to Harry. The thing holding you is not an enemy anymore, it's an obstacle, its fellow with the large mouth likewise dust swirling inwards into your anima
 
@Cavalar Yog kindly worked some viable suggestions that seem to serve our purposes well enough. Convert from Agg to lethal then heal that with a regular healing potion, and the teleports would allow us to escape grabs and some other movement restrictive tactics. They'd also be good for our party just incase Lash isn't available.
•••• A Healer's Chance. Converts one point of aggravated damage to lethal damage per success during crafting
•••• Emergency escape. Gives ability to teleport up to 12 meters in any direction within line of sight up to three times within one scene.
Thanks @Yog.
 
Votes so far.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 21, 2024 at 10:53 AM, finished with 153 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X] Plan healing Aggravated Damage and Escape Artist
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● Healing potion
    --[X]●●●● Theia's tears
    --[X]●●●● Escape Potion
    [X] Plan steroids for explorers
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● Body Building
    --[X]●●●● Magic Cleaner
    --[X]●●●● Aelgean Marble
    [X] Plan steroids
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● Theia's tears
    --[X]●●●● Body Building
    --[X]●●●● Aelgean Marble
 
Can potions be injected instead of drinking them? If so, we could build something like an armband with a reservoir of potions which could be delivered via an auto-injector system. Include a Cyber-Devil for ease of use and to ward against Techbane, and we would have a pretty nifty piece of kit.
 
Can potions be injected instead of drinking them? If so, we could build something like an armband with a reservoir of potions which could be delivered via an auto-injector system. Include a Cyber-Devil for ease of use and to ward against Techbane, and we would have a pretty nifty piece of kit.
Probably but you would need to make them with injection in mind a lot of potions are kind of meant to end up in your stomach and then windup doing their magic and spreading out. I imagine pumping I don't know what goes into a lot of our potions but pumping malcoffee into your veins seems like a bad idea.
 
Can potions be injected instead of drinking them? If so, we could build something like an armband with a reservoir of potions which could be delivered via an auto-injector system. Include a Cyber-Devil for ease of use and to ward against Techbane, and we would have a pretty nifty piece of kit.
I certainty hope so. Auto-injectors with cyberdevils would probably even mean that taking the potion doesn't consume an action.
 
Tied.
Adhoc vote count started by BoredMan on Mar 21, 2024 at 1:45 PM, finished with 160 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X] Plan healing Aggravated Damage and Escape Artist
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● A Healer's Chance
    --[X]●●●● Theia's tears
    --[X]●●●● Emergency escape
    [X] Plan steroids for explorers
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● Body Building
    --[X]●●●● Magic Cleaner
    --[X]●●●● Aelgean Marble
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 21, 2024 at 3:32 PM, finished with 163 posts and 13 votes.

  • [X] Plan steroids for explorers
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● Body Building
    --[X]●●●● Magic Cleaner
    --[X]●●●● Aelgean Marble
    [X] Plan healing Aggravated Damage and Escape Artist
    -[X] Level up Alchemical Formulas
    --[X]●●● Astarte Venerian
    --[X]●●● Nabu Mercury
    --[X]●●● Prima Metallum
    --[X]●●●● A Healer's Chance
    --[X]●●●● Theia's tears
    --[X]●●●● Emergency escape
 
Just as a note, I think I'll be voting to buy a lot of those in the next round of XP spending. Healing potion would be tremendously useful, even if only a handful of people can make it. And the "excellency in a bottle" is super useful too.
 
Well, at least the vote is over with. Not a lot of people seem care for alchemy one way or the other huh?
 
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