Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I hadn't seen any such low level healing powers that work on Agg (assuming that they need to heal agg).
I posted two psychic powers that should once you get towards the top, and after more than a decade it's probably not as simple as Agg damage anymore.

We gave Olivia dots in four psychic paths and one regular sorcery path, none of which we know and only one of which she did beforehand.

Her native power is the only one we pushed to five dots, but two of the others went to three.
 
Honestly if we do these homebrew Charms, we should do them properly.

Make a full set of Sanctuary-themed Charms and lock them behind conquering the Labyrinth, so Molly gets a narrative reason for wielding new powers in her own theme.

Also I much prefer to have a single, finished Charmset crafted at a specific point before we start buying from it, to remove the temptation of making Charms for specific situations or cases as we need them.
Working around the issues and limitations of your Charms is where the mechanical fun of being Infernal comes from after all, well that and soak plus two or three kinds of different immortality.
Agreed. I too would like both a narrative reason to start learning FCFF charms, and a full charmset before we start learning them. But in order to get there, we'll need to design the charmset first.
Honestly, maybe the clones just need more complexity. I already mentioned crafting, but there are other ways to make their loss more noticeable and their creation more difficult. Another option is to tie them to maintenance requirements so that they are not free. But this is already a last resort option.
I tried avoiding too complex (in either design or execution) charms, as per point three of my overall design. Maybe have them reserve a point of essence for themselves? So if you have 1 clone out, your maximum essence drops by 1, and if you have 5, then it's decreased by 5?
Thinking about Dragonnests and exalted and thinking that maybe we could make a charm to aspect the Dragonnest to us, infernals could raise manses to a god, or Yozi in creation, so why not take a Dragonnest an aspect it Molly herself.

Say it takes 100-500 motes spent over the course of it construction, but it ends with a Manses to Molly. A bit of Molly inner world on earth.
We can make manses. It's an epic craft project, beyond splendor 5, but we can do it. They come with such nice things as not being exhausted after arcana animation, and a city-wide effect on par with a charm.

But I like the idea of having a dragon nest charm. Maybe something that would seed a world with a dragon nest causing one to develop where we want?
Like the charms, a little sad you didn't like my teaching one enough to include, I thought that was thematic at least
While I understand leaving aside Benevolent Radiant Ring, maybe it can be remade into an arena charm, by causing a thin frozen metalsand windstorm dancing around in a pillar, blocking vision and doing Lethal damage to anyone but the Infernal trying to pass through? Would make it a higher dot charm, but useful outside of extreme wether conditions and more Infernal-coded since allies can't enter or leave easy either.
Also would you say Fivefold Aspects of the Empress is incompatible with Splintered Gale Shintai? If only because of story purposes, that's twice as many mollys. Perhaps remove the death-prevention effect from FAotE and make another specific charm for surviving death for herself based on the wheel, at a steep price of course.
Sorry about that. I'll almost certainly work in Paths Through City Streets and Benevolent Radiant Ring into the next iteration. The training charm, while awesome in concept, isn't really practical, as from pure math, it's likely you'll be giving up more than you'll be receiving. Still, the concept of having to give something up for training is appealing.

Also yes, I'll add that purchasing this charm precludes buying other clone charms.
Well in the spirit of making custom charms that fit with DF.

Name holding Method
Many beings can use your true name against you. Infernals are one of them.
System: If the Infernal hears someone's name from their own lips they can make a DC 7 Intelligence + Occult roll to perfectly remember it. The Infernal is then able to use any charms which normally have a range of touch on the target from any distance for as long as the name continues to be true.
Oh, I like that. I'd change intelligence to perception, and maybe (not sure) occult to perception, but in general I like the idea a lot.
So if a clone or clones get jumped and decide to use essence Molly would just.. randomly get essence drain?
Essentially yes. It's a big downside, yes. But they get the ability to do charms instead. It's not meant as a combat charm in this case.
Where can I find Hellweaving by the way.
Kindred of the East - Companion book. Here is the quote:
Glimpse of Yomi ●
This power allows the akuma to infuse a victim's mind with images of the Yomi World and what occurs within it. It is a brave soul indeed that can withstand such an assault without running screaming into the night.
System: The akuma must make eye contact with his victim, while the player spends a point of Demon Chi and rolls Perception + Occult (difficulty 6). Success means the victim is tormented with visions of the Yomi World. The victim must make a Willpower roll (difficulty 7) and achieve more successes than the akuma did, to avoid the effects of the power. Failure means he will flee in terror from the akuma; weaker victims (mortals with a Stamina of 1 or 2) may die of heart failure.
Sacrifice: Gold (at least one coin's worth).

Razor Winds ●●
The akuma opens up a temporary window into the Yomi World, releasing a tiny blast of the lacerating winds that howl through the Thousand Hells.
System: The player spends one point of Demon Chi and rolls Intelligence + Occult (difficulty 6). Success releases the Razor Winds to shred the target's flesh and soul. The player rolls Dexterity + Firearms or Archery (difficulty 6) to hit his target. Success indicates that the target suffers the akuma's Stamina + 2 dice of lethal damage; this can be soaked. The Razor Winds will do +1 health level of damage for every additional point of Yin Chi or Demon Chi the akuma spends.
Sacrifice: A point of Yin Chi or Demon Chi (in addition to the points spent to activate the power).

Favor of the Yama Kings ●●●
To their more powerful servants the Yama Kings and their greater vassals grant this power: a warping of joss to bring good fortune to those who work the Kings' evil will.
System: The player spends a point of Demon Chi. For the rest of the scene (or longer, at the Storyteller's discretion), all rolls he makes in direct furtherance of his and the Yama Kings' evil purposes are at -1 difficulty. Of course, it is up to the Storyteller to determine what tasks are involved in "furthering evil." Not everything an akuma does directly furthers evil. For example, an akuma's hunting trips among the slums of Hong Kong probably would not qualify for a Favor of the Yama Kings bonus, since he is just seeing to his own physical needs (even though, arguably, anything that supports an akuma supports the Yama Kings and furthers their purposes). Conversely, hunting to find sacrifices for the Kings probably would qualify.
If the akuma has a Demon Mentor (see Kindred of the East, p. 94), then he derives even greater benefits from this power because of his intimate connection with a member of the Kings' courts (or even one of the Kings himself, perhaps).
The reduction in difficulty should last longer (up to a night or more, in some cases), and if the Yama Kings see fit, may even be increased to -2 to all difficulties in crucial situations (for example, arranging and performing a ritual to open a gate to the Yomi World to bring forth an army of goblin spiders into the Middle Kingdom).
Sacrifice: A point of Demon Chi (in addition to the point of Demon Chi spent to activate the power).

Remembrance of Yomi ●●●●
All Kuei-jin have a recollection of the time their P'o spent in the Yomi World - and that recollection is never pleasant. This power allows an akuma to bring those memories to the forefront of a Kuei-jin's mind and accentuate them, forcing him into depraved acts.
System: The akuma touches the victim (who must be a Kuei-jin) as the player spends a point of Demon Chi and rolls P'o (difficulty 8). If successful, the akuma immediately forces the Kuei-jin to enter shadow soul. (See Kindred of the East, p. 151.) The Kuei-jin spends at least one hour in this state, during which he may commit acts of unspeakable abhorrence. Thereafter, the Kuei-jin's player may roll once per hour, pitting his Hun against a difficulty equal to 4 plus the number of successes the akuma achieved on his roll (maximum 9). Success allows the Kuei-jin's normal nature to re-assert itself; otherwise, shadow soul continues. If it continues long enough, я Kuei-jin's Dharma may be imperiled.
Sacrifice: Jade.

Weavings the Yomi World ●●●●●
This powerful ability allows an akuma to corrupt a dragon nest, defiling it and rendering it a source of dark, evil power and woe. Instead of being a source of power for all shen, it becomes an outpost of the Yama Kings in the Middle Kingdom, a font of energy that only akuma and others like them can tap.
System: The akuma must physically be in or on the site of the dragon nest to be corrupted, and concentrate for at least three turns. The player spends three Demon Chi and rolls Manipulation + Rituals (difficulty 9). Success indicates that the dragon nest has been defiled. This defilement is permanent; thereafter, no energy can be drawn from the nest. Weaving the Yomi World may be counteracted with the Feng Shui power Broom of Heaven; otherwise, its effects may be cleansed and purified only by a great quest and noble sacrifice.
Sacrifice: A service, rendered to the Yama Kings, Demon Mentor, or other inhabitant of the Yomi World who grants the akuma the power to perform the ritual.

Flood of Wickedness ●●●●●●
Even those Kuei-jin who actively study or cultivate their P'o secretly fear it. Transcendence of the P'o, even temporarily, represents a loss of control and a giving in to one's most bestial nature and desires. However, some powerful akuma have learned how to harness their P'o so that they can release it more easily than a typical Kuei-jin, the better to exploit its powers.
System: The player spends a point of Yang Chi and rolls Intelligence + Meditation (difficulty 6). Success indicates that he has control over the release of his P'o for this scene. This means that all difficulties to invoke the P'o (see Kindred of the East, p. 91) are reduced by 2, and the akuma is considered to have two extra points of temporary Demon Chi. (These must be spent while Flood of Wickedness is invoked; after it ends, they dissipate automatically.) Furthermore, the difficulty of any of the akuma's attempts to resist being taken over by his P'o, or to make him enter fire soul or shadow soul, are also decreased by two. This power lasts for one night.
Sacrifice: A service, rendered to the Yama King, Demon Mentor, or other inhabitant of the Yomi World who grants the akuma this power.

Yomi Portal ●●●●●●●
At this level, the Yama Kings grant the akuma the power to summon and bind creatures from the Yomi World. This provides the akuma with a source of valuable servitors, assassins and terror-troops.
Systems: The akuma spends three turns concentrating while the player spends 2 Chi (Yin or Yang), and rolls Intelligence + Rituals (difficulty 7). Success indicates that the gate into the Yomi World has been opened, and the akuma may then call forth the creatures he desires. They heed his call, but may not be entirely pleased about it. (The more powerful they are, the less likely they are to enjoy having their free will curbed this way; lesser spirits are not as inclined to complain, since they are used to being ordered around by greater beings.) If necessary (Storyteller's discretion), the akuma must spend a point of Willpower to compel the being to serve him for a night.
Alternately, this power can be used to bind Yomi spirits and similar evil powers that the akuma encounters. The player must spend a point of Willpower and roll Intelligence + Leadership (difficulty 8) to succeed.
Sacrifice: The akuma must provide the particular Yama King, Demon Mentor, or other being who gave him this power with a human soul. (A Kuei-jin's Hun or P'o would suffice.) How he obtains it, and from whom, is up to him.

Gift of P'o ●●●●●●●●
When the akuma invokes this power, he calls upon a Yama King or his demonic mentor to grant him naked P'o souls from the Yomi World. He may then use these souls to create servants, or simply consume them for power.
System: The akuma spends two points of Demon Chi and rolls Intelligence + Rituals (difficulty 8). For every success obtained, the Yama Kings grant him one P'o soul to do with as he wills. He may fuse that P'o into a corpse, thus creating a primitive, yet powerful, chih-mei that serves him slavishly (but which can never advance beyond chih-mei state to greater enlightenment) for a night. Alternately, he can consume the soul, gaining two temporary Demon Chi for every soul consumed (maximum of 10 Demon Chi). These temporary points of Demon Chi remain for one night per success, after which they dissipate if not already spent.
Sacrifice: Eight corpses.

The Red Bridge ●●●●●●●●●
Sometimes the Yama Kings wish for their most powerful servants in the Middle Kingdom to come visit them and pay fealty. If so, they grant them this power, which allows them to open a doorway to the Yomi World - and a means to survive there.
System: The akuma spends three turns concentrating and the player spends two Yin Chi and rolls Intelligence + Rituals (difficulty 7). Any success opens the door to the Yomi World; the number of successes indicates how resistant the akuma will be to the deadly Yomi forces, as follows:
1 success 1 hour
2 successes 6 hours
3 successes 1 day
4 successes or more 1 week
For every time interval, the player must roll Stamina + Survival (difficulty 9). Success means the akuma takes no damage; failure means he suffers one health level of damage. This cannot be soaked, nor can it be healed until the akuma leaves the Yomi World (or the Yama Kings rule otherwise).
Sacrifice: Various. The sacrifice required depends upon the motives of the Yama Kings for allowing the akuma to come to the Yomi World, or the akuma's motives for asking to come. The Storyteller should choose something proportionately difficult and dangerous to obtain in relation to the powers or favors to be requested.
 
Essentially yes. It's a big downside, yes. But they get the ability to do charms instead. It's not meant as a combat charm in this case.
I personally would be happy with Molly's clone just having her passive charms. That still leaves them fast, able to escape into any liquid, a -3 DC on all escape attempts, uncaring of pain and a perfect defense of their intimacies including a loyalty to Molly. Then we use IDU on them.

A team that can capture that and hold that long enough to do anything useful without killing them would be able to capture Harry without breaking a sweat.
 
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I personally would be happy with Molly's clone just having her passive charms. That still leaves them fast, able to escape into any liquid, a -3 DC on all escape attempts, uncaring of pain and a perfect defense of their intimacies including a loyalty to Molly.

A team that can capture that and hold that long enough to do anything useful without killing them would be able to capture Harry without breaking a sweat.
I am not too attached to this part, yes. Maybe "can use charms that don't require essence to activate", and put in 'reserves 1 point of essence from the essence pool to keep active"?
 
Essentially yes. It's a big downside, yes. But they get the ability to do charms instead. It's not meant as a combat charm in this case.
If we are engaged in combat with low essence and suddenly get essence drained by clones that's kind of horrific. Not worth it at all we simply don't have good enough essence management or max to do that. Not with us throwing excellencies around "just in case" all the time.
 
I am not too attached to this part, yes. Maybe "can use charms that don't require essence to activate", and put in 'reserves 1 point of essence from the essence pool to keep active"?
DP was ready to just give us that in the original charm awhile back. Something about how our clones should not be susceptible to red court venom and if he was giving us the passive for that charm might as well include all the passives.

But really a captive clone of ours is super dangerous. We should hope that someone tries.
 
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[X] Explain that you do know a magical healer if she wants one

More friends in low places. Or debtors, which is the next best thing. Damn, I had completely missed *that* connection.
 
On custom charms just realized that our Exaltion is supposed to have learned from its captivity in the Yomi hells, but it also spent a good deal of time imprisoned in the heart of winter as well.

Perfectly Balanced as All things Should Be
The Fey always pay back what they are owed, but what they do out of compulsion a Infernal does for spite.
System: The Infernal has an instinctive sense for exactly who has slighted or wronged them. It doesn't matter if they are disguised, use proxies or any other form of misdirection the existence of the unpaid revenge is proof enough in the Infernal's mind. She is able to locate them wherever they might hide and gets a -1 DC to all checks in pursuit of vengeance.

Also considering the name Vengeance is Mine
 
DP was ready to just give us that in the original charm awhile back. Something about how our clones should not be susceptible to red court venom and if he was giving us the passive for that charm might as well include all the passives.

But really a captive clone of ours is super dangerous. We should hope that someone tries.
I think the biggest worry mentioned in the discussion is a possibility of possession.
 
I think the biggest worry mentioned in the discussion is a possibility of possession.
Well perfect loyalty, 9 willpower and CCC apply to all rolls. Think even Dark Bob loses that battle of wills. Assuming nothing for IDU helps as well.

So possessing entity just gets locked in a mind cage.
 
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Well perfect loyalty, 9 willpower and CCC apply to all rolls. Think even Dark Bob loses that battle of wills. Assuming nothing for IDU helps as well.

So possessing entity just gets locked in a mind cage.
Hmm, what if instead of "share the same essence pool" I put "have e1 pool (maybe dragonblooded e1 pool, ie 5 motes?), start out empty, can only refill via donations from main self or prayer eating"? Or would that be too overpowered?

Edit: without the ability to use charms of some sort, I just don't see a need for a new charm when SGI exists. A simple "cannot be possessed" line just doesn't justify a new charm in my mind.

On custom charms just realized that our Exaltion is supposed to have learned from its captivity in the Yomi hells, but it also spent a good deal of time imprisoned in the heart of winter as well.

Perfectly Balanced as All things Should Be
The Fey always pay back what they are owed, but what they do out of compulsion a Infernal does for spite.
System: The Infernal has an instinctive sense for exactly who has slighted or wronged them. It doesn't matter if they are disguised, use proxies or any other form of misdirection the existence of the unpaid revenge is proof enough in the Infernal's mind. She is able to locate them wherever they might hide and gets a -1 DC to all checks in pursuit of vengeance.

Also considering the name Vengeance is Mine
I like the idea, even if I think that "know where everyone who slighted you at all times" is way too powerful. It is, however, a charm that would be very hard on the storyteller and/or players to maintain, as it would require a list of all slights to be maintained. I do like the idea of winter's influence adding something to our exaltation. Perhaps instead a variant of NWS? Something like "upon seeing someone, the Infernal rolls perception + awareness against the difficulty of target's wits + subterfuge. Upon success, she learns all the ways they have ever slighted and helped her" or something like that. Or a ledger of debts, both slights and favors, but again, that would be hard to bookkeep.
 
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Fivefold Aspects of the Empress ●●●●
Embodying the divinity of the Empress-to-Come, the Infernal manifests the divergent images of her self from the mind of her worshippers.
System: The infernal spends 5 motes of essence. A clone rises from the ground on a metal pedestal. They are clad in a traditional garb of one of five cities. They retain the abilities associated with the city they embody (see Spirit Shifting Stride). All other abilities are reset to zero, and their favored status is removed. They are capable of using the Infernal's charm and other abilities, but share the essence pool with the exalt. They cannot regenerate essence in any way save by means of Prayer Eating. They cannot collaborate with the Infernal in sorcerous rituals, except in Prayer Eating. The clones don't get access to prayer eating.
The Infernal can have up to her Essence rating in clones alive and active at once. By spending 1 Essence, she can cause a clone within her presence to unravel into an iron-filled wind which she absorbs, granting her all of the memories the clone accumulated during its existence. If the Infernal wishes, she may re-create specific absorbed clones in the future when using Fivefold Aspects of the Empress.
If the Infernal should ever die while any of her clones are abroad in the world, her body dissolves into a screaming wind that streams across the world and pours itself into the nearest clone. Reincarnating in this fashion reduces the Infernal's Essence rating by 1. If this would reduce her to Essence 0, then reincarnation is impossible.

I still think that any clone charm needs a way for the clone to come back to us on their own without too much costs.

The two biggest fears of the thread are possession (which having the charms would remove) and kidnapping while keeping unconscious, and while the charms help in that one, they also open a big vulnerability of someone exhausting our (or the clone's if you go for the separate pools) essence pool and still doing it.

A simple *The clones can do something to return to their creator* somewhere in the charm would mitigate this.

We have the city of endings, I'm sure there is a way to make a thematic thing about it that does that.
 
How about a completely different approach to the Clone-issue?

Two-World-Twin-Soul Echo Stance (●●●●)
The Empress can't rule her Kingdom while she is outside of it. But the Kingdom is the Empress, or at least a part of her, and so she breathes in the air of Sanctuary and breathes out the air of the mundane world and through her breath an echo travels between both.
System: Spend 3 Essence to conjure a figment of the Infernal. This figment is always in the Infernal's inner world while she is in reality and appears in reality whenever she moves into her own soul.
The true Infernal and her echo are constantly in mental contact, indeed they are the same person given the skill to hold two tracks of thought, and it takes no more than a thought and a breath of the Infernal to delete the figment.
The figment has the physical shape of the Infernal as a mortal (with no ability to soak Lethal or Aggravated damage) and no supernatural power of its own, but it shares any mental and social Charms the true Infernal activates, or benefits from passively. Upon taking the normal 7 health-levels of damage a mortal can bear, the figment turns to breath again. Changes to the Figment are never temporary, the next time the figment is destroyed or the Infernal changes worlds, a new copy that fits the current Infernal appears in the other place.

//Would that be okay? It has much less utility than clones, but also much less risk. Molly can either go to school while in Sanctuary, or rule Sanctuary while working IRL. The constant connection can also be used to ask experts in Sanctuary about things relevant to Molly in reality.

What it lacks is of course the ability to use clones for multiple tasks in one world, such as learning multiple subjects at once or maintaining a healthy social life at school or uni while really doing some cool shit elsewhere. But in exchange our true body and mind are safe.
 
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I still think that any clone charm needs a way for the clone to come back to us on their own without too much costs.

The two biggest fears of the thread are possession (which having the charms would remove) and kidnapping while keeping unconscious, and while the charms help in that one, they also open a big vulnerability of someone exhausting our (or the clone's if you go for the separate pools) essence pool and still doing it.

A simple *The clones can do something to return to their creator* somewhere in the charm would mitigate this.

We have the city of endings, I'm sure there is a way to make a thematic thing about it that does that.
Ok, how about this:
Fivefold Aspects of the Empress ●●●●
Embodying the divinity of the Empress-to-Come, the Infernal manifests the divergent images of her self from the mind of her worshippers.
System: The infernal spends 5 motes of essence. A full body mirror rises from the ground, and a clone steps out of it, the mirror getting absorbed into their body. She is clad in a traditional garb of one of five cities. Upon first summoning she retains the abilities associated with the city they embodies (see Spirit Shifting Stride). All other abilities are reset to zero, and their favored status is removed. She retains the access to Infernal's charms that don't use essence.
The Infernal can have up to her Essence rating in clones alive and active at once. A clone can choose to discorporate at any time she so wishes, disappearing into any reflective or image capturing surface within her presence. Upon the clone's discorporation or death, the Infernal gets access to the clone's memories. When resummoned, the clone retains continuity of effects with their previous incarnation.
If the Infernal should ever die while any of her clones are abroad in the world, her body dissolves into a screaming blizzard of iron that streams across the world and pours itself into the nearest clone, overwriting her body with that of the Infernal. Reincarnating in this fashion reduces the Infernal's Essence rating by 1 and counts as death of a clone. If this would reduce her to Essence 0, then reincarnation is impossible.

So, the main narrative change here is that there are five clones. As in, you don't get to make new ones. You get up to five clones, one for each city. And if they die, you can resummon them, but it's still the same clone. So, if you make one clone into a combat cyborg, and another into a fleshcrafted fomor, the new summoning will get you a combat cyborg, and a fleshcrafted fomor. I also dropped "cannot collaborate with the Infernal on magic rituals", but if it's needed for balance reasons, I'll put those back.

EDIT: This is a charm that starts the development of a Primordial soul structure basically.
 
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Marcone might be an inconvenient contact to have.


We've done criminal stuff and probably will do more, but by supernatural standards Molly's the next best thing to a saint. He is a career criminal who the law rightfully takes issue with.

Now that we're working more with people like the library his utility might not be worth the headache.

Not that we have to be a perfect goody two shoes all the time, but if Marcone becomes a regular business associate of ours or a close associate like Tiffany then I'm concerned we'll bear the negative attention of his criminal history without an equally valuable payout.
I think the biggest worry mentioned in the discussion is a possibility of possession.
No it wasn't. The last discussion on this was about our clones being the target of smash and grabs, followed by mind magic for the purposes of information collection. None of Molly's passive powers block that.

Nemesis being involved doesn't mean it's going to try the same trick everywhere and then go cry into a pint of ice cream when it fails.

Kind of feel like my argument is being strawmanned when everyone I'm arguing with checks out at the word "Nemesis" and starts talking about how Molly shouldn't be possible to possess.
Well perfect loyalty, 9 willpower and CCC apply to all rolls. Think even Dark Bob loses that battle of wills. Assuming nothing for IDU helps as well.

So possessing entity just gets locked in a mind cage.
That's not how this works. CCC doesn't grant us the ability to win all rolls, and if we ever get to the point where a clone is rolling willpower to resist Nemesis infection it's probably arranged to make sure the clone is screwed.

But again, this is a red herring because they could all be as immune to possession as Molly herself is and it would not matter if they're also more vulnerable than she is and lack an escape mechanism.
 
Marcone might be an inconvenient contact to have.


We've done criminal stuff and probably will do more, but by supernatural standards Molly's the next best thing to a saint. He is a career criminal who the law rightfully takes issue with.

Now that we're working more with people like the library his utility might not be worth the headache.

Not that we have to be a perfect goody two shoes all the time, but if Marcone becomes a regular business associate of ours or a close associate like Tiffany then I'm concerned we'll bear the negative attention of his criminal history without an equally valuable payout.
I mean, healing the girl doesn't obligate Tiffany to cooperate or contact Marcone in any way. He almost certainly already knows that Tiffany exists - he has to have Dresden under some manner of surveillance, and Tiffany's birth was very loud mystically - Gard had to have noticed, and informing Marcone of such events seems to be a part of his contract with Odin's PMC. He doesn't know her capabilities, but if nothing else her being a healer should grant her some measure of protection from harassment - you don't screw with people you plan on letting heal you. And if the question is about Faith and contracts - even that doesn't really require them to be business partners. Tiffany is probably getting her Faith points from Helen and/or the girl she heals, not Marcone. Marcone might want to make a deal, if he learns that those are a thing, but a) Tiffany is free to reject, b) it still doesn't obligate Tiffany to do anything, and c) it doesn't involve Molly in any way.

No it wasn't. The last discussion on this was about our clones being the target of smash and grabs, followed by mind magic for the purposes of information collection. None of Molly's passive powers block that.

Nemesis being involved doesn't mean it's going to try the same trick everywhere and then go cry into a pint of ice cream when it fails.

Kind of feel like my argument is being strawmanned when everyone I'm arguing with checks out at the word "Nemesis" and starts talking about how Molly shouldn't be possible to possess.
See the last version of the charm in the post above yours. I really don't want to custom build charms to our purposes, that feels like cheating somehow, but I think I got a version that is doable.

As to none of the passive charms protecting Molly from that - CCC for resistance / counter-magic at least helps. In one of my versions, clones get access to charms that don't require essence. That's RVD at least.
 
I mean, healing the girl doesn't obligate Tiffany to cooperate or contact Marcone in any way
That's true, but the discussion seemed to be going that way. He will definitely want to get what business he can rolling for the same reason the feds are looking to use the disruption we're going to cause to expand.

I'm not implicitly against it, but depending on our exact trajectory it might not be worth the trouble.


See the last version of the charm in the post above yours. I really don't want to custom build charms to our purposes, that feels like cheating somehow, but I think I got a version that is doable.

As to none of the passive charms protecting Molly from that - CCC for resistance / counter-magic at least helps. In one of my versions, clones get access to charms that don't require essence. That's RVD at least
Thinking about it more, I think tweaking the existing one to not be unusable is probably better if we're going to use a limited custom charm set.

That should keep us more honest than building it from scratch, and the base one is ridiculous. It doesn't need to be easy to use, but a charm that does more to screw you over than help your cause is a waste.
Technically Molly is harboring multiple murderers. I'm pretty sure at least some of the vampires and ghouls have a body count.
Yeah, which is why it's only by supernatural standards. :V

Organized crime gets a different reaction, especially when involved in back room deals with the government.
 
Yeah, which is why it's only by supernatural standards. :V

Organized crime gets a different reaction, especially when involved in back room deals with the government.
If the government could to pretend that the supernaturals with human body counts under our direct control don't exist (otherwise it's better to break any hope of a close partnership now as I want to take care of our own much more than worry about the government) and also evaluate things with a supernatural lens why wouldn't they do the same with Marcone?

Especially when he is at least one step removed from us, with Lash being the one who will take care of any business between the two of them or not.
 
Thinking about it more, I think tweaking the existing one to not be unusable is probably better if we're going to use a limited custom charm set.

That should keep us more honest than building it from scratch, and the base one is ridiculous. It doesn't need to be easy to use, but a charm that does more to screw you over than help your cause is a waste.
As a variant for the base charm, I would put in something "the clones reserve 1 mote of essence from your pool, and can use it to commit suicide when they want, exploding in a fiery explosion" or something like that. Or we can use Magnanimous Warding Glyph on our clones as a means of instant suicide.

I like the current version of my clone charm because it sets up a stage for demon development, where our clones become our third circle souls as they progress and diverge and develop.
 
Not to mention that the government has done much worse things than ignoring a mafia boss for much smaller advantages than something like Molly.
 
The training charm, while awesome in concept, isn't really practical, as from pure math, it's likely you'll be giving up more than you'll be receiving. Still, the concept of having to give something up for training is appealing.
Well yeah, it's a charm you never want to use on PC's. Hell not sure it should even work like a training charm in the sense of 'teaching for a while'. Maybe something like 'Molly Gives a chance for a mortal to reinvent themselves, and over the next 5 days they are filled with inspiration even as they loose their old passions' for uses I see the charm as the ability to basically 'Print' specialist builds for minions with 5 dots in 5 skills, like using it on a group of normal thugs and 5 days later you have a group of scientists with Science, Craft, Computers, Technology, and Academics, even as they loose all thuggery skills they had. Or a group of PIs, or Actors, or Politicians, or Sneaks, or Warriors if you want to be boring.

Edit: Maybe a rule that says the Ability loss cannot go below 1 Dot? That way they can't entirely loose old abilities, and still retain their foundation. Either way, some of the dispossessed ghouls and white courts we have for example would definitely take a chance to become grandmaster Omn-qualified in skills they wished they could have learned, even at the loss of skills for survival in undertown.
 
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OK, looks like we are making the connection. Harry is about to have Fun (TM) when Lash applies her particular brand of morality to working with Marcone. :V
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 10, 2024 at 8:56 AM, finished with 100 posts and 22 votes.

  • [X] Explain that you do know a magical healer if she wants one
    [X]Not directly, but I am very skilled alchemist.
    [X] Explain that you do know a magical healer if she wants one
    -[X] In fact there are multiple healers but they have different amounts of skill, different approaches and different prices, some pretty alien
    [X] Explain that our gifts do not lend themselves to healing, but that we might be able to put her in contact with a gifted healer.
    -[X] Empathy Excellency
    -[X] Stunt: It is not difficult to detect the spark of desperate hope that has kindled in Helen's normally cold, nearly emotionless eyes. Truth be told, that intensity coming from Helen, of all people, is somewhat disconcerting. Best to tread carefully here, you decide.
    --[X] "Unfortunately, healing is not my forte. I'm more about transformation and empowerment. I may be able to put you in contact with a true healer, if you can tell me what you need? I would not want to give you false hope by promising more than my associate can provide."
 
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