I got the opposite impression from this-
One the Sidereals and the Solars we're both cursed to the maximum extent it's possible to be cursed. To the existence of the deliberative is specially with solars at the helm is a phenomenon that existed purely because humanity and the exalted host existed and were the same thing essentially the war leaders of mankind got to become the leaders of mankind. But we know from how their Caste are structured that's not how they would actually like to be. Hell the most famous zenith is Selina who very specifically didn't rule any territory and was against the idea of hierarchy in general. Also a lot of those examples given for who it would choose aren't correct. Mao Zedong was from a culturally dominant ethnic group riding a popular political movement into winning a crumbling Nation after the Japanese got done with it. Joseph Stalin is pretty much the same story except he's a petty murderer as well. Genghis Khan that is correct he was great administrator a great War leader and a great warrior it's really hard to say that he's not a good candidate.
He's trying to say that hero isn't a valueless term. Bronze tongue and uju seem to be under the wrong conclusion that the term Hero has no values attached to it when that's functionally not the case. Someone who sides with monsters is not a hero. Because to be a hero is to be a Slayer of monsters. Someone who throws down and abuses people for no reason is not a hero. Because to be a hero even in the classical sense is to be in some way righteous. The word hero literally means protector or defender. Even in the bleakest tale of Greek mythology about their Heroes they aren't unrepentant or unfeeling monsters. Prone to fits, of Rage, madness, malice, spite all true but evil they are not.
The classical meaning of hero wasn't valueless though. What Uju and Bronze seem to be saying is not that the term doesn't have value just that those values aren't agreeable to our more civilized modern ones.
Humanity aspired to those stories because they accomplished great things humans are not capable of such as slaying a great beast not because of their moral fiber. At least not in most cases.
No, I do not, because Herostratus is not a Greek hero, and because, at least as far as I know, Jack the Ripper and Andrei Chikatilo would not be good fits for solar exaltations, and as far as I know canonically (solar) exaltations in most cases go to people who would be considered heroic by statistically significant parts of modern populations.
When people bring up historical or fictional examples of "people who would,d be terrible exaltation choices", I don't think there's enough thought being put into the Exaltation's effect. If Stalin got access to Judge's Ear or Crown of Eyes, would he still enact mass purges? If he had solar bureaucracy and training charms, would his policies have led to Holodomor? If Chingis Khan had Solar Diplomacy and the power to sanctify oaths, would even one city have been sacked by him? In Feanor's example, if you increased his power, intelligence, perceptiveness and charisma by an order of magnitude, and gave him a bunch of special powers on par with Valar, do you think he would have done better or worse? Not bad or good. Better or worse than he did canonically? Honest question, I don't remember Silmarillion well enough.
This is the point of dispute though, isn't it?
It is in supposing that that they are wrong. Exalted are chosen for a variety of reasons. The context in which you exalt matters. Exaltation doesn't choose for morals that is correct but it does chose for virtue. This is going mostly on second edition here but follow me for a second here the four virtues as they were known are compassion, temperance, conviction and Valor. Having a deficiency in any of those great enough would immediately disqualify you of exaltation. Also would sabotage your willpower score but that's a different thing.
In their absence of wanton cruelty and general lack of abusing the populace we see the moral fiber. Achilles with his endless physical prowess could have decided to become a warlord who endlessly abuses and conquers the city states of Greece because until a god literally strikes him down there's nothing that can really stop him he wields a spear heavier than most men, can run between the city-states, can ride chariots greater than most could imagine. Heracles is literally the same thing except he's also a great Bowman. What these Heroes don't do speak volumes about their righteousness even if they have moments where Madness or rage overcome them those are moments in the stories that these heroes are moving through not the totality of these Heroes and that's rather the point.
Is there anything stopping us from talking to all of them? If it's timing, we can split the party
Can you add activating EIPP?
Sure.
OK then.
