Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Of Silver Sorrows​
7th of January 2007 A.D.
COMMENTARY
Halley's Comet's last visit was 1986. Next visit is 2061.
Its first confirmed recorded sighting was by the Chinese in ~239 BC; there's an unconfirmed Greek sighting in ~467BC.

I will also note that it was first recorded British sighting was in 1066.
Thats a significant date for the Fae in the Dresden Files, because 1066 was also the year that the Battle of Hastings happened in recorded history, and that was around when Mab and Titania came to power, I think.

Other things that happened in 1986 Dresdenverse:
Michael killed Siriothrax around 1986 according to the timeline.


Epidii were an Iron-Age Celtic tribe of northern Britain, specifically the island of Islay in the Inner Hebrides.
Currently part of Argyll in western Scotland, but only about 40km from the Irish coast.
They were mentioned by the Roman historian Ptolemy.

According to Wikipedia, Islay had Gaelic, Irish, Norse and Scottish influences.


Broken ramparts of the Empire of Wolves.
The Empire of Wolves is obviously Rome, and given the previous mention of northern Britain, the broken ramparts in question is probably referring to Hadrian's Wall, since Rome itself fell centuries earlier.


Children of the moon.
Could be a reference to werewolves or just general shapeshifters, both of which exist in DF and WoD.
Could be a reference to Lunars.


The empty chair seems to be a reference to the Silver Chair from Exalted 2E.
Or it could be a reference to the empty chair of the August Personage in Jade that the Yama Kings are supposed to be fighting over in the ExWoD/Kindred of the East metaplot.

The song, the lament, goes on to describe what you now recognize as a piece of... comet, a piece of cosmic ice and dust falling into the stormy waters of the sea off the coast of an 'island of flames by heaving ice bound'. Alas the text does not get much more coherent from then on:
Iceland.
Volcanic island with ice.
The earth groaned and cracked, it quickened as life in its mother's womb and yet the dream was stillborn, smothered in its crib by the one that should have nurtured it, warded off by false counsel. So does the father devour the sun and so is the passing of ages made delayed. Look ye deathless Gentry upon broken ramparts of the Empire of Wolves, like rotted teeth in gums of green and wonder what might have bee born of its death if folly was not called wisdom if the hungering wyrm had not been called blind and grasping
This rather seems like a good thing from the PoV of most mortals.
Father devour the sun is a clear reference to GrecoRoman mythology and Cronus/Saturn.

...and so Prince Trucc battled the Wyrm of the sea for the whole of the moon-that-is-no-moon, yet he was overcome when he felt the one for which the treasure was meant fall to the whispers of ambition, hope-to-rule, and be undone. So the Prince took on the guise of a butterfly lost among the spray of white and he flew south and east to the shores of a more guarded sea where dragons do not swim and there I found him true as I now stand before you.

Sayeth he with ringing voice from the belly of the beast: "When your blood of fire is cooled and your bones dead stone that which you have hidden shall be torn from you. A Fickle Prince and a Good Steward, beware, beware the children of the moon."
South and east from off coast of Iceland to the shores of a more guarded sea.
Sanya's encounter was at Vayda-Guba, which is on the shore of the Barents Sea, which is about as northerly and open as you can get. More notherly than Iceland.

Which might suggest that whats there might be a decoy.
 
[X] The Archive is right there, ask her if she knows anything that can help you track down this 'egg'
-[X] Also ask Lydia and maybe look through her library at a later date if the Archive doesn't or can't help you.
Remember Ivy talking about the Archives restrictions towards neutrality, and avoiding altering the balance of power?
I do.

Well, after reading this, if it is not a Lunar Exaltation I will be very surprised.
...and it seems like multiple Exaltation, if not the remains of Black Vault itself, were placed in the Haley comet.
This is ingenious.
It really doesnt sound like an Exaltation.
And I have no idea who the children of the moon is referring to here. Probably a cult.
Maybe the shapeshifter dude that Sanya met.

This quest is currently set in 2007.
Here is a timeline for the comet. MAR 2, 2022 was the closest it had ever been.
Closest to the Earth =/= Appears in the sky.
The next appearance of Halley's comet is in 2062 according to your link.
 
Closest to the Earth =/= Appears in the sky.
The next appearance of Halley's comet is in 2062 according to your link.
Well yes it is currently 2023 in the real world. The quest is currently happening in 2007. So if today you look up next appearance you are going to see 2062.

Also for our purpose of getting to the comet closer matters more then appearing in the sky.
 
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We didnt see Halley's Comet last year.
It didnt appear. It wasnt expected to appear.
It might have come close to Earth in astronomic terms, but it didnt approach the sun, and thus become visible to the naked eye.

Next time that happens is in 2061/2062.
For our purpose of getting to the comet closer matters more then appearing in the sky. I don't even know why you are arguing.
 
For our purpose of getting to the comet closer matters more then appearing in the sky.
A lot of magical significance shit is very anthropic, and centered on when it can be observed from Earth.
Shit like Starborn has no absolute celestial significance beyond when the stars can be seen from Earth.
Same here.

Theres no indication that there's anything left on or around Halley's Comet now after it dropped its payload centuries ago.
 
VOTE
[X] Wait, you'll ask Lydia, maybe look though her library

Ask Lydia and Lash.
I dont believe that Ivy's restrictions would allow her to answer, even if she wanted to.
This is my current vote, at least.
 
@uju32 I don't know if you're being obtuse or if you just don't get it he's talking about interacting with or grabbing the comet so it's actual literal distance is considerably more important than whether or not it's actually visible and the closest it's ever going to be to Earth is in 2022
 
oints at egg of stone incident in Russia*
That may or may not be true
One or two rumblings that might be related aren't exactly strong evidence.


In the Dresden Files, the star cycles are explicitly a major driving factor of the metaplot. Lord Raith was explicitly positioning himself to play a part in the current cycle when he overreached and Maggie LeFay fucked him up. Harry and Elaine were grabbed by DuMorne due to the stars they were born under, and Harry's value to multiple factions is due to when he was born.
Providing power and therefore motive isn't the same as being active elements setting fate. Further, they specifically tie into the plot around outsiders. Being a starborn gives you extra juice in general as well as against the outsiders, so of course they get targeted.


Hades put the artifacts of the Crucifixion in place to be claimed when they would be needed in Skin Game
It's almost like everyone is a plotter playing games. Making plans based on understanding the factors in play isn't the same thing as being driven by prophecy or reading the actions you need to take from the stars.


Mab had custody.
That doesnt necessarily mean that she, or Winter, got to dictate what and where what they held would take action of its own.
The Fae have restrictions about what they are allowed, after all.
Unless you weave a new restriction in for something that hadn't been relevant in multiple iterations of the world to the fey I don't see it.

She couldn't necessarily make it take orders, but that's because exaltations don't take to that well most of the time. It wouldn't stop her from arranging for a human who vaguely matches the requirements from being the only option and picking someone who less likely to hate her personally.

Maybe she learned more once there was more data to work with, but if she knew from the start because she saw it in the stars her actions wouldn't make sense.
There is no evidence that this is true.
You're suggesting that an exalt with access to at least some of the deep lore and an informational super weapon actively seeking to release more exalts won't speed it up?
Besides, we arent forcing the issue; its already come up on its own multiple times.
The plot hooks have been waved in our face repeatedly, first with Odin's base manager raising the point unprompted, then a Sanya Interlude with a fucked up blood ritual, and now with Lily offering this as a potential reward.

I like to think Im not too thick to take a hint.
Plot hooks aren't necessarily guaranteed to go one way or the other. I think Molly is the secret sauce to make this actually work in the near term.

I don't see this as something that has to happen, or the plot line as very appealing itself.

We'll spend a bunch of time looking for the lunar, getting to their cage, freeing them, then managing the fallout. They'll be pushing the DF out of our AP budget before they're even free, then it'll get worse.

Lunars aren't exactly the careful type, or overly impressed with systems of any kind. They can also make some very impressive social and combat builds right out of the gate. I'm not enthused about needing to clean up after them.

We'd better have some personal equipment done before that point, because our crafting edge will be key to keeping up with them long term.
 
Spaceship crafting time?
Should trigger both ccc and tlf. Coupled with bsm, whwh, and doing design in shintai in the Courts, we should just be rolling autosuccesses.
This rather seems like a good thing from the PoV of most mortals.
Father devour the sun is a clear reference to GrecoRoman mythology and Cronus/Saturn.
Could be referring to Fenrir/Skoll
Remember Ivy talking about the Archives restrictions towards neutrality, and avoiding altering the balance of power?
I do.
It doesn't hurt us to check. If she can't say anything, then she can't say anything. But maybe she can tell us something.
 
A lot of magical significance shit is very anthropic, and centered on when it can be observed from Earth.
Shit like Starborn has no absolute celestial significance beyond when the stars can be seen from Earth.
Same here.

Theres no indication that there's anything left on or around Halley's Comet now after it dropped its payload centuries ago.

I mean you might find some remains of whatever it was, heck it could even have more than one payload. If you guys want to make a magical space ship I'm not going to stop you.
 
Should trigger both ccc and tlf. Coupled with bsm, whwh, and doing design in shintai in the Courts, we should just be rolling autosuccesses.
If we buy prince of ruin attitude (3xp) we aren't even at the mercy of the rocket fuel equation. Of course with Mind Hand Manipulation and rage recast flight we might not even need a rocket just a airtight room that we push at ever increasing velocity.
 
So, ok, the text is confusing but... Is the Exaltation in the belly of Siriothrax's corpse? Because that's how I am reading this, I think.
 
[X] The Archive is right there, ask her if she knows anything that can help you track down this 'egg'
-[X] Also ask Lydia and maybe look through her library at a later date if the Archive doesn't or can't help you.
-[X] And use Halley comet scientific data (and telescope images) as foci


Or we could use the crown. Because that's what it's there for.
 
Remember Ivy talking about the Archives restrictions towards neutrality, and avoiding altering the balance of power?
I do.
It's also our payment.

Usually keeping written things away from her would be pointless, but she's a record of all mortal text and this was scribed by a fey in the nevernever.
@uju32 I don't know if you're being obtuse or if you just don't get it he's talking about interacting with or grabbing the comet so it's actual literal distance is considerably more important than whether or not it's actually visible and the closest it's ever going to be to Earth is in 2022
The point is the magical symbolism. The distance being smaller than it usually doesn't mean it isn't still difficult to manage, and reaching it could itself be a problem.

A single exaltation getting away from a prison potential containing multiple is strange. It seems unlikely mundane forces would accidentally break something like that and that only one would get out if they did.

There's a good chance that the specific conditions of that planetary alignment opens up a crack for things to slip through.

Trying to get in without that advantage seems like it'd be significantly more difficult and/or have additional consequences.
It doesn't hurt us to check. If she can't say anything, then she can't say anything. But maybe she can tell us something.
Couldn't hurt is a big claim to make. The Archive is a faction too, and has interests.

The worst case isn't that she does nothing, it's that motives we aren't aware of move her to act against our interests.

For example; if she learns about the crown and the Archive decides it needs an exalt of its own to counterbalance the one running around. Forcing Ivy to make a grab for the lunar regardless of her personal opinion.
Or even just a bottle of poison that we fly.

I that idea, but we'd still be in transit for a significant period of time with nothing to do considering the distances involved. Seems like it'd be better if we for some reason needed long distance but earth local transit but didn't want to risk or simply couldn't reach the destination by waterway.


Molly has used herself as a Way before though, when she popped out of that bar after having entered the FCF somewhere else. I'm not sure the degree to which she can choose which instance of valid song target to emerge from, but we haven't popped up somewhere we didn't want to since we started having the chance to prep for it.

If we did go instead of sending Molly, why not send a drone ship with a volunteer crew of Sutra? They could keep each other company and have fewer material needs or limitations impacted by space flight.

When they reach the destination they start playing our song in a deployable way station and we pop into the courts then out again inside it. When we want to go home we reverse into a prepared spot in the Last Station or wherever.

If that works we could also try for a moon base or something.
 
[X] The Archive is right there, ask her if she knows anything that can help you track down this 'egg'
-[X] Also ask Lydia and maybe look through her library at a later date if the Archive doesn't or can't help you.
-[X] And use Halley comet scientific data (and telescope images) as foci
 
[X] The Archive is right there, ask her if she knows anything that can help you track down this 'egg'
-[x] Also become the North Atlantic well using ATP and see what you see.

I feel that crown questions should always be asked last so we know the right questions.
 
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Couldn't hurt is a big claim to make. The Archive is a faction too, and has interests.

The worst case isn't that she does nothing, it's that motives we aren't aware of move her to act against our interests.

For example; if she learns about the crown and the Archive decides it needs an exalt of its own to counterbalance the one running around. Forcing Ivy to make a grab for the lunar regardless of her personal opinion.
Ivy already knows about this. It's a text. And she already knows us either an exalt or a primordial (based on language). Whether we ask her or not won't change her actions. Also, I am fairly sure that Archive can't force Ivy to do things. Prevent her from doing things, but not make her do them. And even if it can, this would be a breach of her neutrality if she explicitely moves to counter balance us specifically.

Of course there are worst case scenarios where we are one of the things she's meant to keep out of Creation, and she's just biding her time, but again, asking her about this won't change anything, I think.
 
One or two rumblings that might be related aren't exactly strong evidence.
The appearance of one of the only two currently serving Knights of the Cross suggests otherwise.
Heaven presumably took a look at a whole list of ongoing stuff before sending Sanya, the only Knight outside North America to the Norway/Russia border. That they prioritized this seems like we might want to pay attention.

Providing power and therefore motive isn't the same as being active elements setting fate. Further, they specifically tie into the plot around outsiders. Being a starborn gives you extra juice in general as well as against the outsiders, so of course they get targeted.
We dont know this. One way or the other.
Whether the stars actually cause the events, or are just visual indicators for other deeper cycles has never been made clear.

It's almost like everyone is a plotter playing games. Making plans based on understanding the factors in play isn't the same thing as being driven by prophecy or reading the actions you need to take from the stars.
The people in the know actually have been around long enough to have some idea about when to play games and when not to.
Longterm homeowners dont drag their trash to the curb everyday, only on trash day.

Unless you weave a new restriction in for something that hadn't been relevant in multiple iterations of the world to the fey I don't see it.

She couldn't necessarily make it take orders, but that's because exaltations don't take to that well most of the time. It wouldn't stop her from arranging for a human who vaguely matches the requirements from being the only option and picking someone who less likely to hate her personally.

Maybe she learned more once there was more data to work with, but if she knew from the start because she saw it in the stars her actions wouldn't make sense.
Its presumably not a new restriction.
The Raksha had no authority over Exaltations when they were Raksha; I dont see how that changes after they became Dresdenverse Fae.

No, thats nonsense. The Primordials and Neverborn of Creation could exert no control over the choices of the Exaltations; even when the Yozi stapled first circle demons on the Infernal Exaltations they suborned to change their criteria, they were essentially along for the ride as the Exaltation insisted on making its own choices.

Mab's potent.
She's not "manipulate a Celestial Exaltation's choices" potent. Neither, as far as I know, is Mother Winter.

You're suggesting that an exalt with access to at least some of the deep lore and an informational super weapon actively seeking to release more exalts won't speed it up?
We're an E3 Exalt, not a Primordial or an Angel or a Celestine or even a high-tier Incarna.
You significantly overestimate our capabilities if you think that we can materially alter the activation of an Exaltation by scrying it. Thats my opinion.

Im honestly not seeing where you are getting this from. Im not seeking to release more Exalts; I am on record as stating that the Black Vault would be a disaster if it existed and was cracked open. I just happen to believe that you cant sit out an arms race; this is important enough that we cant afford to let other people get a jump on us.

Thats what I voted for.

A person you can argue we'd be mandated to free.
A naked Exaltation? If its dormant, Im quite happy to keep it that way until/unless its ready to move.
As long as we can keep it out of the hands of everyone else that might want to fuck with it while its dormant.


Plot hooks aren't necessarily guaranteed to go one way or the other. I think Molly is the secret sauce to make this actually work in the near term.

I don't see this as something that has to happen, or the plot line as very appealing itself.

We'll spend a bunch of time looking for the lunar, getting to their cage, freeing them, then managing the fallout. They'll be pushing the DF out of our AP budget before they're even free, then it'll get worse.

Lunars aren't exactly the careful type, or overly impressed with systems of any kind. They can also make some very impressive social and combat builds right out of the gate. I'm not enthused about needing to clean up after them.

We'd better have some personal equipment done before that point, because our crafting edge will be key to keeping up with them long term.
Plot hooks that have been demonstrated to be actively in motion generally are.

The stone egg thing we saw in Sanya's Interlude was actively sought out by some shapeshifter magician of some sort.
And the QM has stated that they were rolling dice for this sort of thing.
Ignorance does not help us, whether or not we have any interest in hastening any processes.


Lunars are as careful or uncaring as any other Celestial.
There's a reason the original fiction for ExWoD was a Solar showing up at Elysium and YOLOing a venue full of high-tier vampires with a horsehead mask and a mall-bought katana.

Thats the sort of thing that depends on the person, not the type of Exalt.


And if I must have one, I'd rather have a friendly one, or at least one that hasnt been stuffed into a Monstrance/Caul or otherwise suborned by one of our opps because we chose to sit on our hands and hope that if we ignored it really hard that it would go away.

Assuming this is a Lunar, of course. It could always be something else from the Fae, back when they were still Raksha.

I mean, I am trying to get my head around the idea that a high lord of the Fae would want a Lunar or Lunars running around, or that the Fae would weep at the idea that it didnt happen.
And Im not really convinced.


Could be referring to Fenrir/Skoll
True. Good catch.
It doesn't hurt us to check. If she can't say anything, then she can't say anything. But maybe she can tell us something.
Remember that the Archive is its own faction.
And that Ivy doesnt make all its decisions, or set its priorities.
Hence my reluctance to test its limits and reactions.
 
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