The problem is that the Archive mantle can apparently control Ivy in things related to its core purpose, and the Crown is the biggest threat too that purpose possible.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- washington
I wouldn't say biggest threat top 5 sure but like the biggest is obviously outsiders trademarked, next is permanent murder of the archive, etc etc.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean, we did use Hellscry Chakra on Nemesis. That's how we used NWS on it through Maeve. We know it works. And with a Summer Fey we should have no other darkness to "hide behind" like it can with Winter.
And I, for one, have no problem with Summer and the Archive knowing the properties of Hellscry Chakra. It's not like it really applies to them, after all, except for the purpose of detecting Nemesis.
And I, for one, have no problem with Summer and the Archive knowing the properties of Hellscry Chakra. It's not like it really applies to them, after all, except for the purpose of detecting Nemesis.
Because Molly is pretty sure that does not work. You have to keep in mind that even when Molly used the Crown to find the things she had to make a roll to see though its last line of bullshit defense [Nemesis' charm is called Thief of All, Lord of Nothing for what it's worth]. Odds are good that is the perfect manifestation of your soul cannot see it all the time Helscry alone cannot spot that the infected are CoD... probably because most of the time they are not. The thing is more 'devil on the shoulder' most days, not a puppeteer.
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- Location
- washington
Not caught up to chat and I know the worry is using the crown at all but if we do use it we can probably ask who in the room is nemesis infected.
Actually, couldn't we also use something like whatever chair she sitting in whatever carpet she's standing on like 'is person standing on top of this carpet infected?' 'is the person sitting in that chair infected?' or something like that.
Wouldn't that be a valid use of the questioning I mean most of the things in here, apparently ancient and based off her Mortal life, so that should give them some level of significance.
Random pieces of carpet are not valid targets, you get one question that you can point at the scene, not the people and that is it.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
I really have to wonder what sort of things various Outsider factions and entities are saying to one another right now.
Admittedly in words that require seventeen tongues and three larynxes made out of diamonds and supercritical mercury to speak, but still...
Admittedly in words that require seventeen tongues and three larynxes made out of diamonds and supercritical mercury to speak, but still...
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Ok then
[X] Use the Crown to make sure Lilly is still herself
Good night guys, see you tomorrow as we see how Titania and the Walker Beside both take things as well as what that fourth fey noble you were not able to catch is up to
[X] Use the Crown to make sure Lilly is still herself
Should we also vote on some preliminary idea on what to do if she is infected, along with a stunt? We do have to roll for this, even with the crown, and we don't have any of our usual buffs outside of excellency.
Seems like it'd save time and make us more likely to succeed.
Do we want to subtly alert Titania, or just call her out and be ready to defend ourselves?
I also think you're underestimating the issue the crown poses to the archive. It's simultaneously the perfect weapon for and against it. Whatever Ivy's personal opinion is it makes us a priority for her, one way or the other.
My concern is that the risk and reward levels will drive it towards forcing Ivy to try exerting some sort of control.
Edit:
Another thing; we don't often have quality nemesis foci available to us, and even if Lily isn't infested this situation is still a very good one. Worth considering asking for all current hosts of nemesis and checking the big list for Lily's name.
We've never had an issue remembering crown stuff before, or parsing the answer, so I don't think it'll be an issue. We can use the known infected as foci for other questions later.
Seems like it'd save time and make us more likely to succeed.
Do we want to subtly alert Titania, or just call her out and be ready to defend ourselves?
Maybe, not sure they'd be willing to go for that.
I also think you're underestimating the issue the crown poses to the archive. It's simultaneously the perfect weapon for and against it. Whatever Ivy's personal opinion is it makes us a priority for her, one way or the other.
My concern is that the risk and reward levels will drive it towards forcing Ivy to try exerting some sort of control.
Edit:
Another thing; we don't often have quality nemesis foci available to us, and even if Lily isn't infested this situation is still a very good one. Worth considering asking for all current hosts of nemesis and checking the big list for Lily's name.
We've never had an issue remembering crown stuff before, or parsing the answer, so I don't think it'll be an issue. We can use the known infected as foci for other questions later.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I mean there's no gaurantee she'll realize the scope of what she's looking at after only 1 use without warning anyway so we'll see. It would make more sense to ask for a list of all Nemesis infected instead but I see people bandwagging.
[X] Use the Crown to ask for a list of anyone who is Nemesis infected.
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- Location
- Canada
[X] Use the Crown to ask for a list of anyone who is Nemesis infected.
I wonder if Justine is infected at this point... how deep does this rabbit hole go! It's funny, this is literally a 20-minute adventure, in and out, help Lily and leave, and now we're looking to compromise all of Nemesis' plots and plans in the course of a single afternoon.
I wonder if Justine is infected at this point... how deep does this rabbit hole go! It's funny, this is literally a 20-minute adventure, in and out, help Lily and leave, and now we're looking to compromise all of Nemesis' plots and plans in the course of a single afternoon.
I have another temptingly bad idea to float in the thread:
We have that ruling about mind plagues and how to make them right? Using them on innocent people is morally dubious even if there you believe there's an argument for deploying them anyway, so the reluctance to make any is understandable.
But what about Nemesis?
I don't think this would actually succeed exactly, much less on any reasonable time scale, but given what we've seen of its issues I would bet this sort of thing would be incredibly painful and disruptive to its efforts.
We have that ruling about mind plagues and how to make them right? Using them on innocent people is morally dubious even if there you believe there's an argument for deploying them anyway, so the reluctance to make any is understandable.
But what about Nemesis?
Its advantage is that it's a distributed being who can't easily be tracked, but is in constant contact with itself. Despite that the individual shards are clearly not as powerful as the whole entity would be in aggregate; they're vulnerable in a way that something that big typically isn't.
I think there's an argument to be made that this sort of effect should transmit across the entire entity at once, supposing it does get effected*. It probably has perfect defenses, but nothing about nemesis's situation implies it's a good escape artist. Once we have a shard we have time to work with, and everyone gets mote tapped eventually.
We could do something boring, like making it forget everything it knows about Creation, or we could play a fun little mind game.
From our other major encounter we have this:
The way splendors are supposed to work by RaW is that as long as you design a good exit condition they're very close to absolute outside of it. For this purpose I'm thinking something like "the target cannot escape the splendor's effects until it gives up on dreaming of being something different or has grown past that they reached for". Nemesis has carried that desire through dark places and ages of the world. Even if it did manage to cut it out it'd be hurting itself more truly than it has been in a long time.
As for effects, I'm thinking a mix between a few but I'm not sure on the exact composition yet.
These are among the best options though:
I'm thinking of something that plays on what it already has.
The lie we tell wouldn't really be one at all, just a bit of wisdom we heard once:
For overriding vision, I'm thinking something less towards a person and more towards creation as a whole. Something only a little off from what it feels to make the influence more insidious. Bitter longing/begrudging admiration perhaps?
The compulsion wouldn't be too crazy either; less a physical action and more a mental one. Force it to pay attention to the good in the world around it; on people seeking redemption and finding forgiveness, on healing, community, and the lost being found.
Fill the balance out with extension of the curse to make it permanent until the terms are fulfilled and add portentous moonlight as a base.
That way it can be a literal light of poisonous hope; something that grants you a vision impressing the certainty of redemption and opens the eyes to the signs of its passing in the world. Glorious confirmation basis filling the world with examples of people getting what you want because they were willing to seek reconciliation out until you either commit to it yourself or crush out the last embers of personal ambition in your heart.
* Though it would make things interesting if we only got part of it and ended up starting some sort of war/psychotic break as Nemesis fights itself. A fun little reversal of what it does to everyone else.
** Incidentally, I'm curious about what would happen if we made it forget that it was betrayed and abandoned. Is still lovecraftian horror when you're the one to the creatures from beyond?
I think there's an argument to be made that this sort of effect should transmit across the entire entity at once, supposing it does get effected*. It probably has perfect defenses, but nothing about nemesis's situation implies it's a good escape artist. Once we have a shard we have time to work with, and everyone gets mote tapped eventually.
We could do something boring, like making it forget everything it knows about Creation, or we could play a fun little mind game.
From our other major encounter we have this:
It was betrayed, abandoned**, and began working with the Outsiders as a result, but it still yearns to be whole in some way anyway.
The way splendors are supposed to work by RaW is that as long as you design a good exit condition they're very close to absolute outside of it. For this purpose I'm thinking something like "the target cannot escape the splendor's effects until it gives up on dreaming of being something different or has grown past that they reached for". Nemesis has carried that desire through dark places and ages of the world. Even if it did manage to cut it out it'd be hurting itself more truly than it has been in a long time.
As for effects, I'm thinking a mix between a few but I'm not sure on the exact composition yet.
These are among the best options though:
I'm thinking of something that plays on what it already has.
The lie we tell wouldn't really be one at all, just a bit of wisdom we heard once:
For overriding vision, I'm thinking something less towards a person and more towards creation as a whole. Something only a little off from what it feels to make the influence more insidious. Bitter longing/begrudging admiration perhaps?
The compulsion wouldn't be too crazy either; less a physical action and more a mental one. Force it to pay attention to the good in the world around it; on people seeking redemption and finding forgiveness, on healing, community, and the lost being found.
Fill the balance out with extension of the curse to make it permanent until the terms are fulfilled and add portentous moonlight as a base.
That way it can be a literal light of poisonous hope; something that grants you a vision impressing the certainty of redemption and opens the eyes to the signs of its passing in the world. Glorious confirmation basis filling the world with examples of people getting what you want because they were willing to seek reconciliation out until you either commit to it yourself or crush out the last embers of personal ambition in your heart.
* Though it would make things interesting if we only got part of it and ended up starting some sort of war/psychotic break as Nemesis fights itself. A fun little reversal of what it does to everyone else.
** Incidentally, I'm curious about what would happen if we made it forget that it was betrayed and abandoned. Is still lovecraftian horror when you're the one to the creatures from beyond?
I don't think this would actually succeed exactly, much less on any reasonable time scale, but given what we've seen of its issues I would bet this sort of thing would be incredibly painful and disruptive to its efforts.
That is not how it works.
That Merit has very little to do with your WP rating, else every Methuselah and high Rank Garou would have it.
The Merit exists because it was valuable for Mages and Linear Sorcerers; thats why its there in M20, not in W20 or V20.
A WoD Mage will routinely spend 2 or more WP on extended magic rolls for an effect to prevent botching it and having to start from scratch or worse, and will also need to spend WP to delay Paradox backlash and to manage Quiet.
Sorcerers generally need at least 1WP to use a Path effect.
That discount matters for them. Vampires and Werewolves with comparable or greater Willpower ratings didnt get access to it that I know of.
Take a random look at Molly's career to date, and check how many rolls for which spending Willpower comes into play if she's not using it to activate a Charm. And she is Willpower 9.
Look at the rolls we see for Dresden or Charity or Michael.
Its a moot point now, but you entirely misunderstood what that Merit does, and how its meant to function.
And because I try to play the game straight, I am glad I raised the point so noone is surprised or gets to argue when it does not apply where you thought it would.
^^^
Mortals barely even get the opportunity to do so, and only generally in defense of key intimacies.
Im not sure what mechanics you were using for early Lydia, but there's a reason Corpsetaker got to jack her body
That is explicitly how it works.
You make a deal with a demon, they can subsequently drain you of Faith. They dont need to tell you the truth to make the deal, they dont need to give you superhuman powers, they just need to make an agreement and uphold their part of the deal.
This was established in literally the opening fluff of Demon The Fallen, when a demon promised someone who killed someone the demon cared about a mindwipe with the intent of fucking them over anyway:
Someone moves in the darkness. I turn toward the noise.
My stalker swings a tire iron. I barely dodge it, and it whistles past my ear. I draw upon my strength and conviction, that same strength and conviction that Becky and the rest have given me. I feel my muscles surge with power, and I direct that energy into a punch. I catch the stalker square in the shoulder and feel something crack. He screams in pain but swings wild with the other hand, nicking my jaw with the tire iron. I barely feel the pain.
I bring my strength up to the surface of my skin. I'm manifesting, and my chest shines like a furnace of light. Being with Becky had stemmed much of my anguish, but I'm caught between states now. I manifest in hellish blaze and regalia, but I'm still an angel's lingering shadow. My crooked wings are dust motes, my spiral horns shred my temples, and my 100-watt nimbus burns red.
I may be mood lighting compared to the Burning Bush, but I'm still a fucking angel.
My stalker trips and scrambles backward, clutching his arm, and I follow him. His eyes are wide and wild like he's trying to scream but he can't remember how. I stride forward until he hits a wall, then wrap my fingers around his bird neck. I inhale, breathing in his terror like a hurricane sucking air from his lungs. He sobs, his pathetic will turning to ash, and I stop for the coup de grâce.
"I'm sorry," he moans, "I don't want to..."
I glare at him, my fury brimming. Power crackles around my body and I want to slaughter him. I want his entrails draped around my neck. I want to crack his bones into messy splinters. I want to tear his tongue out with my own teeth. But...
I can't. Not without losing everything.
I still love Becky, and I don't want to lose that love to hatred. I've done it before, and it took thousands of years to gain it back.
I let him go and close the curtain over my essence. The dust mote wings drift to the ground, and my horns retreat back into my skull. I look like Max again, but my stalker knows better. He lies at my feet, wracked by sobs, heaving in anguish. As I sense people's faith, I also sense his misery. He doesn't cry out of fear, but out of a spiritual desolation that Max and me both understand all too well.
"Why?" he cries. "Why can't I kill you? I know what you are. I saw it on stage."
I stare at him, angry and still debating whether he lives or dies. I was a fool for thinking nobody would notice me. I was getting careless with my certainties, allowing my divinity to slip through. Somebody finally saw me for what I was, and Becky paid the price.
"Every time I came to your play," he says between sobs, "I thought, today I'll kill you. Today for sure."
"Why didn't you?" I ask through clenched teeth.
"I couldn't. I watched you perform. Each time I... believed, and I didn't want to. Each... each time, I chickened out.
Tomorrow... I'd tell myself. You'd die tomorrow."
I can hear the anger in his voice and the venom for his own faith.
"Why?"
"Because I didn't want to believe in God!" he cries out. "But you made me!"
"What?"
My stalker sniffs, regaining some of his composure. I've awoken something within him, a faith he doesn't want, but
it can't have been a complete surprise to him.
"I always thought that if God was real, then He was a bastard for creating this shit-hole. My parents were killed.
Cancer's killing my wife. My whole life's been ruined. But shit happens, right?" He says, getting up. "There is no God, so it can't be His fault. It's just shit, right?" My stalker shuffles to a chair and sits. He looks at me with saucer eyes drowning in water and cradles his ruined arm.
"Then you come along, and you make me believe," he says. "Suddenly, I believe in God, only now I see He doesn't care. He doesn't fucking care about anybody."
Silence falls in the room, and I kneel down next to Becky.
"I didn't mean to hurt her," the stalker says. "I was waiting for you, and she surprised me. Is she..."
"She'll be fine," I say, and the lie burns like fire. "But you'd better leave."
"What?" he says.
"Get the fuck out of here."
"But I tried to kill you," he says, getting up slowly. "Why would—"
"Because you're right," I say. "God doesn't care about you, and He never did. Knowing that's punishment enough." My stalker is stunned. He shuffles for the door, only looking back once, but he's not escaping that easily. I still want vengeance. "There's a condition, though," I say.
My stalker looks fearfully at me. I already hit him hard enough with my glory to leave him mentally weak and pliable. "A condition," he says.
"Yeah. You see, God may not care, but I do. I care for my friends, and I want to make sure you never come after
them or me again."
"Oh, I won't," he says, promising a little too eagerly for my tastes.
"Not good enough." I get up and walk right up to his grizzled, tear-stained face. He tries backing up, but I grab
him by the collar and hold him in place. "You have to promise — on your soul — that you'll never come after me." "On my soul..." he says. He's nervous, as well he should be, but he's also gullible right now.
"And in exchange, I'll make you forget you ever met me or saw me act."
"You can do that?"
He's desperate enough to believe me. Desperation and a weak will are my allies here. Otherwise, he'd realize I could just as easily make him forget without him having to promise me anything and my friends and I would be just as safe. But what he doesn't realize is that even after he forgets I exist, he'll always be connected to me because he made me a promise on his soul. And because of that connection, I'll be able to drain his life away, slowly and from a distance for as long as I want. He'll stay weak and tortured for the rest of his existence, never knowing why he's dying in small servings. It'll just be another float in his parade of misery. He'll go right on blaming God for it, too, because even though he won't remember me specifically, he'll always have his unquestioning belief in a cruel, heartless creator who doesn't give a shit for him. No, I'm not about to make this guy forget that, because while there's a lot of Max tempering Melbogathra, there's also a lot of Melbogathra in Max. Max and me are that fucking close now, and we both want this guy to suffer for what he's done. Really, though, even my love for Becky can't change aeons worth of spite overnight. I'm still a demon, and this
may set me back, but I've got a long road ahead.
So I nod. Yeah, I can do that. I can take away this pain I've caused. That's why I'm here.
My stalker swings a tire iron. I barely dodge it, and it whistles past my ear. I draw upon my strength and conviction, that same strength and conviction that Becky and the rest have given me. I feel my muscles surge with power, and I direct that energy into a punch. I catch the stalker square in the shoulder and feel something crack. He screams in pain but swings wild with the other hand, nicking my jaw with the tire iron. I barely feel the pain.
I bring my strength up to the surface of my skin. I'm manifesting, and my chest shines like a furnace of light. Being with Becky had stemmed much of my anguish, but I'm caught between states now. I manifest in hellish blaze and regalia, but I'm still an angel's lingering shadow. My crooked wings are dust motes, my spiral horns shred my temples, and my 100-watt nimbus burns red.
I may be mood lighting compared to the Burning Bush, but I'm still a fucking angel.
My stalker trips and scrambles backward, clutching his arm, and I follow him. His eyes are wide and wild like he's trying to scream but he can't remember how. I stride forward until he hits a wall, then wrap my fingers around his bird neck. I inhale, breathing in his terror like a hurricane sucking air from his lungs. He sobs, his pathetic will turning to ash, and I stop for the coup de grâce.
"I'm sorry," he moans, "I don't want to..."
I glare at him, my fury brimming. Power crackles around my body and I want to slaughter him. I want his entrails draped around my neck. I want to crack his bones into messy splinters. I want to tear his tongue out with my own teeth. But...
I can't. Not without losing everything.
I still love Becky, and I don't want to lose that love to hatred. I've done it before, and it took thousands of years to gain it back.
I let him go and close the curtain over my essence. The dust mote wings drift to the ground, and my horns retreat back into my skull. I look like Max again, but my stalker knows better. He lies at my feet, wracked by sobs, heaving in anguish. As I sense people's faith, I also sense his misery. He doesn't cry out of fear, but out of a spiritual desolation that Max and me both understand all too well.
"Why?" he cries. "Why can't I kill you? I know what you are. I saw it on stage."
I stare at him, angry and still debating whether he lives or dies. I was a fool for thinking nobody would notice me. I was getting careless with my certainties, allowing my divinity to slip through. Somebody finally saw me for what I was, and Becky paid the price.
"Every time I came to your play," he says between sobs, "I thought, today I'll kill you. Today for sure."
"Why didn't you?" I ask through clenched teeth.
"I couldn't. I watched you perform. Each time I... believed, and I didn't want to. Each... each time, I chickened out.
Tomorrow... I'd tell myself. You'd die tomorrow."
I can hear the anger in his voice and the venom for his own faith.
"Why?"
"Because I didn't want to believe in God!" he cries out. "But you made me!"
"What?"
My stalker sniffs, regaining some of his composure. I've awoken something within him, a faith he doesn't want, but
it can't have been a complete surprise to him.
"I always thought that if God was real, then He was a bastard for creating this shit-hole. My parents were killed.
Cancer's killing my wife. My whole life's been ruined. But shit happens, right?" He says, getting up. "There is no God, so it can't be His fault. It's just shit, right?" My stalker shuffles to a chair and sits. He looks at me with saucer eyes drowning in water and cradles his ruined arm.
"Then you come along, and you make me believe," he says. "Suddenly, I believe in God, only now I see He doesn't care. He doesn't fucking care about anybody."
Silence falls in the room, and I kneel down next to Becky.
"I didn't mean to hurt her," the stalker says. "I was waiting for you, and she surprised me. Is she..."
"She'll be fine," I say, and the lie burns like fire. "But you'd better leave."
"What?" he says.
"Get the fuck out of here."
"But I tried to kill you," he says, getting up slowly. "Why would—"
"Because you're right," I say. "God doesn't care about you, and He never did. Knowing that's punishment enough." My stalker is stunned. He shuffles for the door, only looking back once, but he's not escaping that easily. I still want vengeance. "There's a condition, though," I say.
My stalker looks fearfully at me. I already hit him hard enough with my glory to leave him mentally weak and pliable. "A condition," he says.
"Yeah. You see, God may not care, but I do. I care for my friends, and I want to make sure you never come after
them or me again."
"Oh, I won't," he says, promising a little too eagerly for my tastes.
"Not good enough." I get up and walk right up to his grizzled, tear-stained face. He tries backing up, but I grab
him by the collar and hold him in place. "You have to promise — on your soul — that you'll never come after me." "On my soul..." he says. He's nervous, as well he should be, but he's also gullible right now.
"And in exchange, I'll make you forget you ever met me or saw me act."
"You can do that?"
He's desperate enough to believe me. Desperation and a weak will are my allies here. Otherwise, he'd realize I could just as easily make him forget without him having to promise me anything and my friends and I would be just as safe. But what he doesn't realize is that even after he forgets I exist, he'll always be connected to me because he made me a promise on his soul. And because of that connection, I'll be able to drain his life away, slowly and from a distance for as long as I want. He'll stay weak and tortured for the rest of his existence, never knowing why he's dying in small servings. It'll just be another float in his parade of misery. He'll go right on blaming God for it, too, because even though he won't remember me specifically, he'll always have his unquestioning belief in a cruel, heartless creator who doesn't give a shit for him. No, I'm not about to make this guy forget that, because while there's a lot of Max tempering Melbogathra, there's also a lot of Melbogathra in Max. Max and me are that fucking close now, and we both want this guy to suffer for what he's done. Really, though, even my love for Becky can't change aeons worth of spite overnight. I'm still a demon, and this
may set me back, but I've got a long road ahead.
So I nod. Yeah, I can do that. I can take away this pain I've caused. That's why I'm here.
Thralls =/= Pacts. Thralls are special.
Thralls are (usually)high-Faith potential individuals that a Fallen has a special relationship with, and has invested in as agents, and can set up as passive sources of Faith, without having to ravage them.
A Thrall can have up to 5 points of Faith potential or more, depending on their template, and the Demon can use some of that Faith potential to buff the would-be Thrall with Attribute/Abilities and supernatural powers, while reserving the rest to provide a passive supply of energy to the Demon every day.
Thats why most Demons are limited to 5 of them as a plot-protected Background.
Pacts, on the other hand, you can make an unlimited number of them with any mortals AFAIK, and ravage the other party for faith as you please. As long as they made the deal, even if they were deceived, and as long as the Demon fulfilled their part, the Demon can make withdrawals on the other person without their having a say.
And the pact cant be broken by the mortal; only the Demon can choose to do that.
Lash might not choose to operate like that, but she explicitly can if the QM uses the canon rules.
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Having thought about it... Why do we need to look now? We can use a random Summer Court fae later to look in safety, and then talk to Archive again, without disclosing the issues. Yes, this leaves potentially infested Lily with a splendor in meantime, but actually, does it? @DragonParadox assuming Lily is infested, and we give the ownership of the splendor to Lily explicitly, and she activates it, wouldn't it protect her from the infection, same as it would protect her from the mantle?
[X] Do not use the crown, continue explaining your gift, you can check in on her later
Unless the hidden background rolls are Molly partially noticing something.
[X] Do not use the crown, continue explaining your gift, you can check in on her later
Unless the hidden background rolls are Molly partially noticing something.
You are just wrong. This is a 5 dot merit, on par with Spark of Life, Inner Knight, Clear Sight and other merits. Someone who has said merit is not going to use willpower the same way a normal person without it would. They are going to be using willpower far more often, because it most cases, said use becomes free. That's, as far as I can tell, both rules as written, and rules as intended. You buy this merit, and then you use willpower on, if not all, then many rolls, because it's now mostly a free success.
PS
Also worth noting that there's nothing, in theory, preventing Lash making a thrall out of a ghoul or a vampire or a changeling or a ghost while modifying whatever feature of their magical physiology is causing them the most anguish.
Provided they are mortal enough to count for the purpose of Demon powers.
Thats in addition to, say, using Lore of the Beast powers to uplift animals to sapience and then thralling them.
Also worth noting that there's nothing, in theory, preventing Lash making a thrall out of a ghoul or a vampire or a changeling or a ghost while modifying whatever feature of their magical physiology is causing them the most anguish.
Provided they are mortal enough to count for the purpose of Demon powers.
Thats in addition to, say, using Lore of the Beast powers to uplift animals to sapience and then thralling them.
......
Exalted in Second Edition could literally regenerate 1 Willpower every combat turn or every stunt as they chose, and THEY did not spend Willpower routinely, despite it working much the same as in WoD.
Willpower simply doesnt work that way; if you spent it routinely, it wouldnt be pushing past your normal limits.
- Location
- Germany
One of the DtF books, not the Core I think, has a list of interactions with the other types of supernaturals.
She can't work with Vampires or Ghosts at all (though since Whites are not undead, they are probably still and option) and pacting with Werewolves is extremely bad for them.
Everything else seems to be fair game.
Also, in DtF what the Fallen need is explicitly the spark of the divine in the human soul, which animal don't have in that particular cosmology. DP could of course decide to give dogs a soul of the same value as a human, but I'd doubt it.
On the matter of who Lash can harvest faith from... she is not entirely sure IC. Keep in mind this is not Demon the Fallen, Lash is a new thing, none of the Knights of the Blackened Denarius ever tried to see if they could make use of their powers to uplift an animal and then make a pact with them. That said Lash does know that one has to be human and still have some semblance of free will to carry a Coin. So for instance that poor bastard who took up Ursiel's coin can technically still drop the Coin, but he does not believe he can which is just how the Fallen likes it.
Storyteller's Companion. Chapter 5, pg 60 to 70.
Imbued(Hunters), Mages and Werewolves can all be pacted/enthralled. Imbued and Mages can be possessed, though Imbued have a perfect defense against possession which they can activate.
Werewolves deteriorate when enthralled, and become uncontrollable if you ravage them and deplete their Willpower.
Vampires cannot be enthralled or possessed.
Werewolves cannot be possessed.
Nothing said about Ghosts, but since they can be summoned, I assume they can be pacted as well, but you must find them a body if you want them on this side.
Now I must go to bed.