Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Every one gets to enjoy scene long no penalty from wounds. We get scene long -1 penalty and if we hit incapicated, we enjoy scene long -4 penalty.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
I was pointing out that literally everyone else is at -0. That is my grip.
Edit: Also it is -5 +1 so -4.
Everyone else doesn't get a full world as well. We have to accept the good with the bad.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Yes everyone else getting some sort of frenzy berserker type thing is annoying. But at least ours is passive rather than needed to get mad* and lasts forever. Even if -1 to the penalty isn't nearly as good as getting to ignore all penalties.
*even if that never actually matters outside roleplay
Edit: Are there any charms or social tricks that we could use to take advantage of our enemies going berserker? I would love the idea of using a red cape to negate attacks. And it just plays into the Infernal themes of taking advantage of other people's inner darkness.
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Faerie is a subsection of the NeverNever, and its a HUGE place in its own right.
While the Faerie Courts claim ownership/jurisdiction, they individually only control a fraction of it.
Thats why, for example, you have people like Evil Bob up and setting up bases with noone so much as noticing.
No Im not.
We sent the message to Winter, and Maeve replied. But there is no indication that she was still there waiting all evening.She might have been there. Or she could have had people standing in while she did other things. We dont know.
What packs of fae are going to be hunting for material for 1 splendor that only 1 fae can own?
And doing so against vampire elders with vampire elder resources in hostile territory? Its not like the Sidhe and most of their restrictions arent actually public knowledge in the supernatural.
The Courts have control over the Ways that pass through Summer and Winter respectively, and can move to put a presence elsewhere. Thats not the same thing as their having forces posted on them 24/7.
You're doing that self-fulfilling prophecy thing right now.
We know nothing IC about Red Court decisionmaking.
OOC we know that the Red King is erratic, and their decisionmaking is not particularly predictable anyway.
Yes she did.
I posted the evidence last time you asked for citations from Proven Guilty, where Maeve did it.
Chapters 40 and 41 of Proven Guilty.
We literally see Maeve do it onscreen. Its not an IF, its an established capability of at least the Queens.
Given as we know fuckall about the resource constraints that Winter works under?
You cant make that assertion in good faith. Declarative statements on Winter's capabilities with no evidence whatsoever on how they work arent particularly credible IMO.
Besides, farming vampires for killing under temporal dilation =/= raising Fae troops for defending the Gates.
The standards required are very different.
Precision matters with troops, where it doesnt with vampires you want to treat as livestock..
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
This was already brought up and talked about. Do you think bringing antivenom on that plane assault was not needed either? Just because your prepped defenses ended up not being used doesn't mean it wasn't a smart idea to prep.
Alright.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
@DragonParadox : Considering just how many of our usual enemies have rage or just general self control problems could we use say red vampire blood to make a prodigal to take a advantage of that?
I am thinking a blood red cape (dyed with real blood) that can induce frenzy and rage in people we flash it at. In combat they have to make a willpower check not to attack the cape.
All the redcaps will be jealous.
I am thinking a blood red cape (dyed with real blood) that can induce frenzy and rage in people we flash it at. In combat they have to make a willpower check not to attack the cape.
All the redcaps will be jealous.
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We have one of our agents wish to have contacts in the US government, they now have them and by extension so do we. Form a spy organization in the city, and have a dozen people wish to improve their organization, thus improving our spy organization. VEE is for allies mainly because we have 5 billion people to make wishes to get what we want. Have 50 people in every state wish for government contacts, and we suddenly have a massive lobbying block. VEE is basically a free backgrounds, as our minions can wish for stuff that we want, basically 5 dot spy, contacts influence, and a lot of other backgrounds we can get for free with VEE.
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- Who knows?
I still don't think getting the 15 exp shapig defense was a waste. Molly is definitely operating at levels where people start breaking out esoteric Save or Dies and "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" 100% applies for those. Sure she managed to tank a few curses but the percentages on those brute force counterspells were waaayy too close (I think like 60% success rate?) for me to want to use as our main, or even worse only, Defense.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
...Okay. You're the DM. How you say goes. Just don't forget that Summer is starting to overwhelm Winter and that is part of what climate change is about in canon.
...Didn't we just get an example recently? Lily giving Harry summer fire so that he can save Molly from Eldest Fetch?
For more archetypical examples, check out Sleeping Beauty and the good fairy that moderates the curse of the wicked one. Likewise, all the other various examples of a 'small and powerless fairy' giving a human some minor help that lets them defeat a big bad evil.
I think the idea is that Summer is not supposed to equal the full might of Winter, but rather keep it in check and pointed in the right direction, with the rules of engagement dictating a clear modus operandi. Summer is the Military Police combined with a medic corps... And you can't expect military police to keep the whole military in check all the time. That doesn't mean they don't do their job, it means shit happens.
I absolutely don't want to badmouth serving military or imply that all soldiers in modern armies behave badly, but the reality is that the role of military police in even fairly modern times in very organized armies has not prevented all kinds of awful stuff from happening. And the war against the Outsiders is definitely a massive, existential war when all kinds of nasty stuff is going to be more prevalent... With of course soldiers from Winter who are not and were never human. Summer not preventing everything all the time doesn't make them any more weak or useless than normal police not preventing every crime makes them weak or useless.
If anything, Harry's realization that Winter is absurdly vaster and more powerful than he imagined confirms that Summer actually does it's job pretty damn well because that means 99.9% of various redcaps and cait sith and so forth probably never bother humans. Whether that's because they're kept away from them, because they're scared of retribution, or diverted into fighting each other for entertainment or whatever... It apparently works pretty well for most. It's just the exceptions that Harry gets to see are very hard to ignore.
United States war crimes - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Your argument is mostly a rationalization and Lily specifically giving Dresden Summer Fire can be interpreted to be about the debt she owed him for the events of Summer Knight, actually countering Winter or working with Maeve towards some goal. Or some combination of all three.
That literally resulted in the Summer Knight dying because of his actions. How is that balanced? We never actually see in-universe how the balance we are told exists works.
Please stop using literally ancient political propaganda as your only argument.
No, we see Maeve do something completely different, and something we can do with a 3 dot Prodigy. She's not dilating time increasing the amuont of time available in a given area relative to the rest of the universe. She's compressing it in a limited area, so less time passes there than in the rest of the universe. And she can't do it on large scale:
Maeve can't do it for long.
The prodigy in question:
Your text doesn't say what you are asserting it does.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
With the knowledge of Winters actual purpose and that Summer is focused on protecting everyone else from them. As well the relationship with Summer draining empathy from winter. Everyone in universe talking about Summer and Winter as balanced forces in struggle basically doesn't know what they are talking about. Or at least are being so simplistic to the point of error.
It might be more accurate to call them two polarized factions of the same polity like say Republicans and Democrats in the U.S.
But of course that is also too simplistic. I doubt anyone who who hasn't spent at least a century involved in fey politics actually understands them. They are basically all frenemies.
It might be more accurate to call them two polarized factions of the same polity like say Republicans and Democrats in the U.S.
But of course that is also too simplistic. I doubt anyone who who hasn't spent at least a century involved in fey politics actually understands them. They are basically all frenemies.
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Winter and Summer Mothers are, in a sense, the same person (they have the same main Name, and automatically know everything the other does).
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
They are fighting an endless war and have probably been doing so for a good minute. They also seem to be struggling which is supported by the Red Court Outsider usage not being rebuffed(on screen at least we get no indication of it).
I really can't see how this set of circumstances would not encourage a more violent mindset and society over time. It's probably the most important thing they even do besides fight with Summer. We see them forcefully recruit children because they don't have enough fodder for the war effort and Mab tells Molly that if she has a better alternative to suggest it.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I suspect that many who have tried to play the summer and winter courts against each other for their own advantage have been very surprised by how they will suddenly be willing to work together.
Much like how people who try and take advantage of the enmity of the Yomi kings by selling bits of their souls to many different kings are shocked by how willing even Yomi Kings in bitter war with each other are willing to trade soul piece with each to get full sets.
Much like how people who try and take advantage of the enmity of the Yomi kings by selling bits of their souls to many different kings are shocked by how willing even Yomi Kings in bitter war with each other are willing to trade soul piece with each to get full sets.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
@Dmol8 Also the scope of war is entirely different here. You can't use war and how our societies react to it because the war with the Outsiders is too out of context(admittedly I brought up the human quote first). They are fighting for survival of not only themselves but everyone else and they don't expect the war to ever end. Some of those people are immortals even, its going to have an influence on their culture and its going to make them more wardriven. Thus Winter being monsterous is understandable, I think it would be more obvious if we got to see their day to day on the frontlines defending the Gates.
Again not saying we shouldn't do something at some point just making it known that its not black and white "Winter is needlessly cruel they should be locked up and replaced" like there's an actual explanation for it.
Again not saying we shouldn't do something at some point just making it known that its not black and white "Winter is needlessly cruel they should be locked up and replaced" like there's an actual explanation for it.
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I agree with a lot of your post BoredMan but winter is not even expediently cruel. They are specifically sadistic and definitely deceptive towards possible allies.
They alienate, screw and otherwise fuck with pretty much everyone they interact with because they think they're fairies so they can be Whimsical and cheat and not lie but rules lawyer and otherwise behave in ways that are not acceptable for anyone that ever wants to deal with them because they are essential.
which isn't the behavior of someone who's being pragmatic it's someone who claims to be so but you know has a cruel intrinsic nature you know like a barren snowy wasteland but as something person shaped.
So while it's not black and white both summer and winter are inherently two sides the same coin both of which do not deal with Mortals in ways that are not acceptable up to and including kidnapping their children.
An ideal endpoint would be the relegation of winter and summer in the Supernatural world to their role in the natural world. They're important but you mostly work around them they don't really dictate what you're going to do on the day-to-day basis except for when they throw a hissy fit. No one thinks that the fairies should all just disappear or die or anything like that. But they should definitely be made completely unessential to anything anyone cares about like say the defense of reality because they are intrinsically either cruel or emotionally driven. Both of these things makes them really bad carriers of long-term power.
They alienate, screw and otherwise fuck with pretty much everyone they interact with because they think they're fairies so they can be Whimsical and cheat and not lie but rules lawyer and otherwise behave in ways that are not acceptable for anyone that ever wants to deal with them because they are essential.
which isn't the behavior of someone who's being pragmatic it's someone who claims to be so but you know has a cruel intrinsic nature you know like a barren snowy wasteland but as something person shaped.
So while it's not black and white both summer and winter are inherently two sides the same coin both of which do not deal with Mortals in ways that are not acceptable up to and including kidnapping their children.
An ideal endpoint would be the relegation of winter and summer in the Supernatural world to their role in the natural world. They're important but you mostly work around them they don't really dictate what you're going to do on the day-to-day basis except for when they throw a hissy fit. No one thinks that the fairies should all just disappear or die or anything like that. But they should definitely be made completely unessential to anything anyone cares about like say the defense of reality because they are intrinsically either cruel or emotionally driven. Both of these things makes them really bad carriers of long-term power.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I wonder if midsummer happens to match up with creations calibration or something like that. Because the fluctuation of court power actually makes more sense if there is a yearly fluctuation in outsiders attacks.
Also would explain global warming if winter is slowly losing. Although I honestly hate that line in the books because it implies that the man made warming deniers are in fact right.
Also would explain global warming if winter is slowly losing. Although I honestly hate that line in the books because it implies that the man made warming deniers are in fact right.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Yeah not everything needs to be explained by "because supernatural". Though this is an AU so it could be a manmade issue that effects the Courts instead.
Global Warming has been discussed. If I understand correctly, it's (mostly?) man-made, with a few caveats. If Siriothrax was still alive, it would be his job to manage. In his absence, it falls to Mab to mitigate, but she's busy.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Which does put the winter court in the odd position of promoting green energy.
You keep citing the same scene in pieces, and I don't agree with your interpretation of it. There's nothing really demonstrating your point outside of Fix, and with Dresden's inside view of knighthood alternative explanations make more sense for him.
That's part of it, but you're making some very strong claims about why they view them as disposable without a lot of evidence.
That scene established that they're important, that the purpose of their power was to extend the courts' power in reality, and that losing them is bad. That's it.
The rest of the series, in particular after Dresden got the mantle, do a lot to outline the sharp limits of the knights.
Different limits for different tools; we were directly told the queens need the knight to kill the unaffiliated, and presumably they wouldn't bother with knights unless they couldn't just pay mortals to do it either.
That we know of being the key term.
Bullshit of it not holding water, it's the whole reason Mab went for Harry. Is magical power is what makes him useful. They're just competing for the most highly sought after level of mortal servant, and they don't technically need it evened if magical power is helpful.
That bit with Thomas was clearly present to mess with Harry. All that she needed was to have him on a list for all of that to technically be true. Not mentioning her full motive isn't lying either, and it's self evident that magic is the big selling point making up for dealing with Dresden's Dresdening.
At his most useless in the sense of being his worst in terms of his vices. He was hanging out with Maeve smoking behind the bleachers and betraying Mab when he was supposed to be doing the will of the court.
None of which stopped them from sending the mercenary they sent. I don't see how what you're saying here contradicts that.
You need a lot of specific abilities to do that, and if they have them they don't need us to do it. The edge case you're talking about is so narrow and the people who can exploit it so powerful that it's not worth wringing our hands over.
Vamps are still better than fomori and we have them already available. We don't need to spend anything to get to the point of training and using them.
I just don't see why we should buy access to a new type of minion while we haven't fully utilized what we do have and actually have that run off equal to or better splats.
That 12 exp could do a lot more immediately valuable work somewhere else.