It is an intimacy so you cannot just will Molly to break it in one go, but if you choose to take Lash seriously that is one step towards moving on.
Last edited:
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
It is an intimacy so you cannot just will Molly to break it in one go, but if you choose to take Lash seriously that is one step towards moving on.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Political incident lets go.
[X] Thoughtfully, it's not like she's saying to give up, just be more careful. After all you do have responsibilities now and so does Harry
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
As usual the underlined errors are in order of reading:
doubled up words
flare, not not flare not
of not on
find not finds
she not he
if not it
why not what
may imagine not may not imagine
doubled up words
flare, not not flare not
of not on
find not finds
she not he
if not it
why not what
may imagine not may not imagine
Catching up...
Dogs have a reputation for faithfulness beyond other animals, and many humans.
I would not be surprised to find a significant number at Faith 3, even.
Nor do I consider it a particularly appropriate way to spend our AP at this time.
Not like we have a surfeit of it.
There may be vampire lineages who sustain themselves on other emotions (I think I remember Butcher implying something of the sort) but those are the major Houses, and the only ones we've seen onscreen.
Lara's run a fairly tight ship since couping her father, so odds are we're looking at Skavis and Malvora.
Still dangerous down here, and we dont make any bones about the fact. Some will stay, sure, but I definitely expect a bunch to move on by spring. With our blessing at that; its not like we have unlimited space.
Unfortunately, events outside Chicago affect Chicago.
We cannot focus on our little corner of the world and pretend the rest of it doesnt exist.
And none of this shit here is unique.
Chicago's homeless problem isnt a patch on California's, or New York's, or Florida's.
And that's just the US; the Phillipines has between a quarter of a million and a million street children nationwide.
As of 2011, India has more than a million street children in New Delhi, Mumbai and Kolkata. Each.
Do we need extra defensive firepower?
Grab a bunch of expendable drones out of Sanctuary and HMP them for heavy response; we already have some of those IRL, so Im pretty sure that the Brass Courts have better options, or parts that Molly could use to put some together.
Stick actual heavy weapons on them, along the lines of heavy machinegun-equivalents, grenade launchers and maybe recoilless rifles. Backup melee weapons if they are humanoid, claymore mines if they are not.
Dinosaurs? Why?
If you are graduating in ~May 2007, like Molly is, you would presumably have had many of these discussions with both your parents and guidance counsellor in the latter half of 2006.
I assume that the 1x AP we have regularly devoted to school work covered all those prep offscreen.
===
Harvard, specifically, has a 3% general admissions rate, coming to roughly 1 in 33 domestic applications being successful.
However, US college admissions arent entirely based on academic performance; they take into account stuff like high school GPA and the SATs, but also family background, extra curriculars, affirmative action, and the like.
And critically, connections matter at the most competitive private schools like Harvard and Yale.
Legacy admissions, from the children of former Harvard graduates, otherwise known by some as affirmative action for the wealthy, constituted 36% of the Harvard class of 2022.
slate.com
And thats not counting the relatives of donors; if your family has been in the habit of making 6- and 7-figure donations,or donating entire new buildings, the university's fundraising department will go to bat for you.
Then there's athletes. Children of Harvard staff, and the like.
===
None of this is an issue for us, because Vadderung invited us to apply.
Which means that Vadderung has the pull/mojo to get Molly in on the Deans Interest List, or the Directors List, which combined constituted 9.34% of Harvard admissions between 2014 and 2019, and is principally stacked with the children of notable donors(or rich enough to be donors) or people with similar pull, like political families and industrialists, with a smattering of people who came to their attention for other reasons
www.thecrimson.com
If Molly took the SATs between June and November, she'd have been rolling Int 4 + Academics 1 + Stunt 2 = 7 dice + 1 autosuccess from spending a temporary WP point, so her SAT scores will likely average in the 99th percentile.
Which might compensate a little for her likely less than stellar GPA, and lack of extra curriculars.
Potentially more.
Dogs have a reputation for faithfulness beyond other animals, and many humans.
I would not be surprised to find a significant number at Faith 3, even.
I dont see why.
Nor do I consider it a particularly appropriate way to spend our AP at this time.
Not like we have a surfeit of it.
Lust, Despair, Fear.
There may be vampire lineages who sustain themselves on other emotions (I think I remember Butcher implying something of the sort) but those are the major Houses, and the only ones we've seen onscreen.
Lara's run a fairly tight ship since couping her father, so odds are we're looking at Skavis and Malvora.
Perhaps.
Still dangerous down here, and we dont make any bones about the fact. Some will stay, sure, but I definitely expect a bunch to move on by spring. With our blessing at that; its not like we have unlimited space.
Unfortunately, events outside Chicago affect Chicago.
We cannot focus on our little corner of the world and pretend the rest of it doesnt exist.
And none of this shit here is unique.
Chicago's homeless problem isnt a patch on California's, or New York's, or Florida's.
And that's just the US; the Phillipines has between a quarter of a million and a million street children nationwide.
As of 2011, India has more than a million street children in New Delhi, Mumbai and Kolkata. Each.
I honestly cant see why.
Do we need extra defensive firepower?
Grab a bunch of expendable drones out of Sanctuary and HMP them for heavy response; we already have some of those IRL, so Im pretty sure that the Brass Courts have better options, or parts that Molly could use to put some together.
Stick actual heavy weapons on them, along the lines of heavy machinegun-equivalents, grenade launchers and maybe recoilless rifles. Backup melee weapons if they are humanoid, claymore mines if they are not.
Dinosaurs? Why?
US college applications are generally done the year before admissions.
If you are graduating in ~May 2007, like Molly is, you would presumably have had many of these discussions with both your parents and guidance counsellor in the latter half of 2006.
I assume that the 1x AP we have regularly devoted to school work covered all those prep offscreen.
===
Harvard, specifically, has a 3% general admissions rate, coming to roughly 1 in 33 domestic applications being successful.
However, US college admissions arent entirely based on academic performance; they take into account stuff like high school GPA and the SATs, but also family background, extra curriculars, affirmative action, and the like.
And critically, connections matter at the most competitive private schools like Harvard and Yale.
Legacy admissions, from the children of former Harvard graduates, otherwise known by some as affirmative action for the wealthy, constituted 36% of the Harvard class of 2022.
Why Legacy Admissions’ Days Might Be Numbered
The Supreme Court gutted affirmative action, but some colleges still give preferential treatment to the wealthy.
And thats not counting the relatives of donors; if your family has been in the habit of making 6- and 7-figure donations,or donating entire new buildings, the university's fundraising department will go to bat for you.
Then there's athletes. Children of Harvard staff, and the like.
===
None of this is an issue for us, because Vadderung invited us to apply.
Which means that Vadderung has the pull/mojo to get Molly in on the Deans Interest List, or the Directors List, which combined constituted 9.34% of Harvard admissions between 2014 and 2019, and is principally stacked with the children of notable donors(or rich enough to be donors) or people with similar pull, like political families and industrialists, with a smattering of people who came to their attention for other reasons
In Admissions, Harvard Favors Those Who Fund It, Internal Emails Show | News | The Harvard Crimson
In one 2013 email headlined “My Hero,” former Kennedy School Dean Ellwood thanked Harvard's dean of admissions for his help accepting a set of students with very particular qualifications. "[Redacted] and [redacted] are all big wins. [Redacted] has already committed to a building.”
If Molly took the SATs between June and November, she'd have been rolling Int 4 + Academics 1 + Stunt 2 = 7 dice + 1 autosuccess from spending a temporary WP point, so her SAT scores will likely average in the 99th percentile.
Which might compensate a little for her likely less than stellar GPA, and lack of extra curriculars.
Lol.So I miss two chapters and @uju32 starts discussing dog daemonhosts and @Yog starts doomposting about us suffering mass casualty events?
Thanks, fixed.
Catching up...
Didnt actually stop her still holding a torch for him for *checks* at least 8 years and counting.
It didnt die. It outlived two of his relationships, the realization that he had a daughter, his death and resurrection, and helping him arrange his own murder-suicide. She's held onto it even as Winter Lady.
Its a significantly more sturdy part of her characterization than you appear to realize.
Not that she's the first such person.
See Morgan, who held a torch for Anastasia Luccio for over a hundred years and literally died for her.
The woman loved him. Had a child with him. Died for him. Left him a gift as she walked to her death.
However that does not mean that her definition or values of love are the same values as those of modern Western society.
She inherited memories and viewpoints from and about mortals spanning two thousand years of mortal society, and just human society has room for a lot more permutations than conventional Western orthodoxy in relationships.
She herself is chronologically only three years or so old, and has had an independent body less than a week.
I would caution people against making assumptions and judgements about what she wants or how she chooses to live.
Its not a foreground thing, nor has it prevented her having interest in other people(Nelson in Proven Guilty, Vincent Graver in Turn Coat, Carlos in Cold Case), or provoked hostility towards other women, at least not onscreen.
But its an intimacy that survived more shit in canon than a lot of marriages.
She did.
Didnt actually stop her still holding a torch for him for *checks* at least 8 years and counting.
See above.
It didnt die. It outlived two of his relationships, the realization that he had a daughter, his death and resurrection, and helping him arrange his own murder-suicide. She's held onto it even as Winter Lady.
Its a significantly more sturdy part of her characterization than you appear to realize.
Not that she's the first such person.
See Morgan, who held a torch for Anastasia Luccio for over a hundred years and literally died for her.
^^^
^^^
The woman loved him. Had a child with him. Died for him. Left him a gift as she walked to her death.
However that does not mean that her definition or values of love are the same values as those of modern Western society.
She inherited memories and viewpoints from and about mortals spanning two thousand years of mortal society, and just human society has room for a lot more permutations than conventional Western orthodoxy in relationships.
She herself is chronologically only three years or so old, and has had an independent body less than a week.
I would caution people against making assumptions and judgements about what she wants or how she chooses to live.
Worth remembering:
- Molly held a torch for Dresden when he was dating Luccio.
- When he was dating Murphy.
- When he died. When he came back from the dead.
- When she realized he had a daughter.
- When he got her to help him commit suicide.
- When she became Winter Lady.
- When Mab banged him on livestream to most of Winter.
- When Mab betrothed him to Lara; Mab even has her handling the wedding arrangements for Winter
Its not a foreground thing, nor has it prevented her having interest in other people(Nelson in Proven Guilty, Vincent Graver in Turn Coat, Carlos in Cold Case), or provoked hostility towards other women, at least not onscreen.
But its an intimacy that survived more shit in canon than a lot of marriages.
Dichotomy of willpower and wisdom, most teenagers would be distracted, most young adults if it gets that far would move on, maybe when some kind of physical separation got into the mix, Molly would not and did not. What you guys now do with the demon's eye view of the whole thing that Lash just gave you, that is up to the vote, not just this one but the ones to come.
Silvereagle21
Soaring through the Sky
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Thoughtfully, it's not like she's saying to give up, just be more careful. After all you do have responsibilities now and so does Harry
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Thoughtfully, it's not like she's saying to give up, just be more careful. After all you do have responsibilities now and so does Harry
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
COMMENTARY
There's an interesting character note here with Lash's interaction with Mister.
Noticeably touch-happy, and its not something she got from Harry. But is very much in line with her professed liking for noisy, vibration-happy antique 1920s/1930s vintage automobiles
I suspect that tactility is going to be a character trait for Lash going forward; pets that enjoy being touched.
Internal combustion motorcycles and cars instead of electric. Manual transmission vehicles over electrics.
A fondness for strong weather.
Lash has admitted to the Lores of Light, Longing and Flesh.
Since she healed Mister, that means she has Flesh 4: Restore Flesh. The only other healing evocation is in the Lore of Awakening, and she doesnt have that yet.
It also does meant that she cares enough about the cat, or about how Harry feels about the cat, to spend precious Faith on preventive healthcare for it.
Here's hoping she spent a couple points in Chargen on the Pact Background; she'll need the Faith drip.
Poor Harry now has two diplomancy-specced women in his life for the short to medium term.
One of whom is high-Appearance(Lash is probably like App 5 I think), and both of whom can read him like an open book.
Damn. Thats gotta be rough.
Thomas and Karrin are going to be laughing at him.
It might be entertaining to be a fly on the wall the first time that Lash meets Lara Raith in the flesh.
Poor Lara will be wondering where all these superpowered women seem to be spawning from in the last six months.
Even Marcone will be wondering the same.
COMMENTARY
Boo.
Would have been funny as shit if she'd literally just used the Crown for this, and pretty low-stakes anyway.
Ah well. No big deal here.
Its worth recalling that over two thousand years of activity, Lasciel is going to have been witness to all forms of human romantic and sexual behavior across multiple societies. Straight to queer, monogamy to polygamy, freedom of choice to coercion to social pressure and everything inbetween.
Sister-wives, harems, mistresses, "roommates", erastes and eromenos, Lasciel has seen them all.
And Lash would have inherited most, if not all those memories.
Probably remembers experiences from Lasciel's career that would make Lara Raith look like an innocent girl.
Looking forward to seeing how Lash and Bob get along.
You shouldnt be burning this as a focus; unlike scenes, physical foci are not renewable.
And I see no reason to be interested in this question, since what Lasciel knows now and what she might know next week might be very different.
It wasnt ever very well hidden.
Maybe from Harry, sure, but literally every woman in his life knew. As did his brother. Lara Raith knew.
Hell, Molly outright tells Dresden's ghost:
I guess ghosts have to take pleasure in the little victories—just like everyone else.
I waited until she was cleaning up the remains to ask, "So. What's with the Ophelia act in front of Murphy and company?"
She froze for a second, then continued moving bits and pieces around her plate with somewhat less enthusiasm. "It isn't . . ." She exhaled slowly, and her eyes moved around the room restlessly. "There's more than one reason."
"I'm listening," I said.
"Well. Who says it's an act?" She flipped a couple of bits of hash brown onto her fork and then into her mouth. "Look at me. I'm sitting here talking to my dead mentor. And half the restaurant is worried about it."
I looked around. She was getting covert stares, all right. "Yeah, but there's hardly anyone here."
She laughed a bit harshly. "That makes me feel better." She put her cup of hot chocolate to her lips and just held it there, trails of steam curling up around her blue eyes. "So. You've finally been inside me. I feel like I should be offering you a cigarette."
I choked and had to clear my throat. "Um. It wasn't like that, kid."
"Of course it wasn't," she said, an edge in her voice. "It never was. Not for you."
I rubbed at the back of my neck. "Molly. When I met you . . ."
"I was a child who didn't need a bra," she said.
"It's about your father, too," I said. "Michael—"
"Is the uncle you never had," she said, her voice still calm but crisp. "You've always wanted his approval. Because he's a good man, and if he approves of you, you can't be a total wreck."
I scowled at her. "I've never said that," I said.
She looked at me through wisps of steam and said, "But it's true all the same. I had that worked out by the time I was about seventeen. You were afraid that if you touched me, you'd be losing his approval. That it would make you some kind of monster."
"I was afraid that I'd be losing my approval of me," I responded. "And not a monster, Molly. Just an asshole."
"When I was a child," she said, still speaking very quietly, "you'd have been right. I'm in my mid-twenties, Harry. I'm not a child."
"Don't remind—" I paused. Then I said, "I was going to make an old-age joke." I looked down at my immaterial self. "But all things considered . . ."
She let out enough of a snort to stir the steam. She took a slow drink of hot chocolate. "Little inappropriate. Even if you were still alive."
"But funnier," I said.
"You're not the one who is going to watch her entire family grow old and die, Harry." She said it without malice. "Not just my parents. My brothers and sisters. All of them. I'm going to be beginning to get respect from other wizards about the same time Hope and Little Harry are dying of old age."
"Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will kill you first."
She shrugged. "Lea's been doing what she could about that. If it happens, it happens. As long as there's a reason for it, that kind of death wouldn't bother me."
I shivered, just from the emotionless tone of her voice. "Except for the dead part?"
"Everyone dies, Harry," she said. "There's no use whining about it."
I waited for a couple of beats and then said, "Here's where you talk about how what you do with your life is what's truly important."
Her head fell back and she let out a belly laugh. It sounded warm and natural. Her eyes were just too wide, though, her smile too strained.
I waited until she was cleaning up the remains to ask, "So. What's with the Ophelia act in front of Murphy and company?"
She froze for a second, then continued moving bits and pieces around her plate with somewhat less enthusiasm. "It isn't . . ." She exhaled slowly, and her eyes moved around the room restlessly. "There's more than one reason."
"I'm listening," I said.
"Well. Who says it's an act?" She flipped a couple of bits of hash brown onto her fork and then into her mouth. "Look at me. I'm sitting here talking to my dead mentor. And half the restaurant is worried about it."
I looked around. She was getting covert stares, all right. "Yeah, but there's hardly anyone here."
She laughed a bit harshly. "That makes me feel better." She put her cup of hot chocolate to her lips and just held it there, trails of steam curling up around her blue eyes. "So. You've finally been inside me. I feel like I should be offering you a cigarette."
I choked and had to clear my throat. "Um. It wasn't like that, kid."
"Of course it wasn't," she said, an edge in her voice. "It never was. Not for you."
I rubbed at the back of my neck. "Molly. When I met you . . ."
"I was a child who didn't need a bra," she said.
"It's about your father, too," I said. "Michael—"
"Is the uncle you never had," she said, her voice still calm but crisp. "You've always wanted his approval. Because he's a good man, and if he approves of you, you can't be a total wreck."
I scowled at her. "I've never said that," I said.
She looked at me through wisps of steam and said, "But it's true all the same. I had that worked out by the time I was about seventeen. You were afraid that if you touched me, you'd be losing his approval. That it would make you some kind of monster."
"I was afraid that I'd be losing my approval of me," I responded. "And not a monster, Molly. Just an asshole."
"When I was a child," she said, still speaking very quietly, "you'd have been right. I'm in my mid-twenties, Harry. I'm not a child."
"Don't remind—" I paused. Then I said, "I was going to make an old-age joke." I looked down at my immaterial self. "But all things considered . . ."
She let out enough of a snort to stir the steam. She took a slow drink of hot chocolate. "Little inappropriate. Even if you were still alive."
"But funnier," I said.
"You're not the one who is going to watch her entire family grow old and die, Harry." She said it without malice. "Not just my parents. My brothers and sisters. All of them. I'm going to be beginning to get respect from other wizards about the same time Hope and Little Harry are dying of old age."
"Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will kill you first."
She shrugged. "Lea's been doing what she could about that. If it happens, it happens. As long as there's a reason for it, that kind of death wouldn't bother me."
I shivered, just from the emotionless tone of her voice. "Except for the dead part?"
"Everyone dies, Harry," she said. "There's no use whining about it."
I waited for a couple of beats and then said, "Here's where you talk about how what you do with your life is what's truly important."
Her head fell back and she let out a belly laugh. It sounded warm and natural. Her eyes were just too wide, though, her smile too strained.
None of this is doing more than stuff Molly allegedly worked out for herself independently in canon.
If her affections for the dude despite that, survived following a man to war, helping him kill himself, and ending up Winter Lady?
I have strong OOC doubts that a demonseye view is going to do more than improve self-awareness.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Didn't her becoming WL make it worse because of the Mantle?
Three words:
Freedom let's go.
Oh yeah carving it out of your soul with charms will work, but if you do that you can never have another intimacy related to that person ever again.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
[X] Thoughtfully, it's not like she's saying to give up, just be more careful. After all you do have responsibilities now and so does Harry
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
Lash is being a bro to both us and Harry, even if there are probably at least some self-serving motivations in there. This may have not been a speech that told anything new to the audience but the audience and Molly are two completely separate things, our conclusions not necessarily reaching her, and so it was a well needed one. Cynical but of resounding truth regardless.
If we get a chance at Harry it will likely be years down the line after we've fought in the trenches together time after time after time. He'll probably get his chance with Lash, with Murphy, maybe even with Susan again. Then maybe with us if we haven't grown in a different direction by then.
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
Lash is being a bro to both us and Harry, even if there are probably at least some self-serving motivations in there. This may have not been a speech that told anything new to the audience but the audience and Molly are two completely separate things, our conclusions not necessarily reaching her, and so it was a well needed one. Cynical but of resounding truth regardless.
If we get a chance at Harry it will likely be years down the line after we've fought in the trenches together time after time after time. He'll probably get his chance with Lash, with Murphy, maybe even with Susan again. Then maybe with us if we haven't grown in a different direction by then.
Kemayo
A Certain Cheerful Tone Of Voice
- Location
- Missouri
[X] Thoughtfully, it's not like she's saying to give up, just be more careful. After all you do have responsibilities now and so does Harry
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
I'm ambivalent about the Harry/Molly relationship, mostly because of the aforementioned "I knew you when I was an adult and you were a literal child" part which is pretty squicky. That said, regardless of which way it goes in the end, Molly doing some introspection and going from childish infatuation to some more-considered relationship is only for the good.
Plus, ignoring whether Lash has hidden motives for this, the advice she offered is all reasonable on its face, even if it comes from a somewhat cynical power-politics perspective -- and the time to actively distrust Lash was before Molly made her a super-body with no strings attached.
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
I'm ambivalent about the Harry/Molly relationship, mostly because of the aforementioned "I knew you when I was an adult and you were a literal child" part which is pretty squicky. That said, regardless of which way it goes in the end, Molly doing some introspection and going from childish infatuation to some more-considered relationship is only for the good.
Plus, ignoring whether Lash has hidden motives for this, the advice she offered is all reasonable on its face, even if it comes from a somewhat cynical power-politics perspective -- and the time to actively distrust Lash was before Molly made her a super-body with no strings attached.
Put it this way, knowing what you know about Lash would you have trusted any argument she made that wasn't cynical and based on power politics?
Ship name acquired.
How much exp do you think making an experienced whamp blush is worth?
Context is king. Her relationship with Harry was always a complicated thing, but I think a lot of it was reinforced by her apprenticeship and initiation into magic.
He was the ideal mix of the magic she was embracing* and the father who she idolized** and deepened that affection with how they worked together and he managed to live up to the most important parts of that image even when he was otherwise a mess. He saved her and gave her power when she had none, kept secrets and made sacrifices for her sake, and she never forgot that.
Here however, she's been exposed to those things a lot less and her power is something she claimed and is exploring primarily by herself. A lot of the things that maintained and reinforced that dynamic haven't happened yet and probably never will. It's still an intimacy, but it isn't as deep seated and reinforced as it time and experience would make it in canon.
* Insert mommy issues here.
** Insert daddy issues here.
[X] Thoughtfully, it's not like she's saying to give up, just be more careful. After all you do have responsibilities now and so does Harry
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
Vote closed, lets see Bob
- Location
- Right Where I Am
[X] Thoughtfully, it's not like she's saying to give up, just be more careful. After all you do have responsibilities now and so does Harry
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
I appreciate the little extra. So, update to my vote.
-[X] You recognize that she is trying to help, and for that, at least, you can will yourself to be grateful
I appreciate the little extra. So, update to my vote.
She's probably really indulging the ability to feel things on her own now.