Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

That was Erata'd to be scene long so it cannot be used for uplift.
Even with the Errata, its not a problem.
You boost the animal's Intelligence temporarily a la Flowers for Algernon, then make a Pact, and as a condition of the Pact raise the animal's Intelligence permanently by buying Attribute dots. No Faith is spent.

Citation:
Demon the Fallen Core p253 said:
No rolls are needed to reshape the mortal's soul.The mortal's Faith rating is used as a "pool" of points for buying effects and gifts that benefit the thrall, according to the following guidelines:

• A point of Faith can be used to repair chronic injuries or impairments — allowing a paralyzed character to walk or giving sight to a blind thrall. If the mortal is missing lethal health levels as an effect of his condition, they are converted into bashing levels,which can then heal normally.

A point of Faith can be converted into 10 freebie points (see Character Creation, p. 122). These points can be used to buy or improve traits such as Attributes,Abilities or Willpower. They cannot be used for improving Backgrounds.

• One point of Faith can be used to impart one of the demon's inherent powers, such as immunity to mind-control. The thrall permanently benefits from this power,rolling Willpower (difficulty 7) to activate its effects.

• One or more points of Faith can be used to give the mortal a limited evocation from the demon's lore.This gift costs one to five Faith points, depending on the level of the evocation in question (i.e., a three-dot evocation would cost the mortal three of her Faith points.) To perform the evocation, the thrall must make a Willpower roll (difficulty 8), with the number of successes determining the scope and effect of the evocation.

• One point of Faith bestows one of the enhancements of the demon's apocalyptic form on the thrall. To benefit from the enhancement, the thrall must make a Willpower roll(difficulty 6). Success allows the thrall to use the enhancement for a scene. The demon can bestow more than one enhancement, but he must spend a point of Faith on each.

• Up to half of the thrall's Faith potential can be used to make the mortal a source of offered Faith, if the Storyteller approves (see Offered Faith, p. 250).

Example: Rebecca has found a thrall, a local police detective named James Wong. Rebecca agrees to improve Wong's health and vitality in return for his service. Most mortals have a Faith potential of just two, but Wong is also a church deacon with a strong core of religious belief, so he has three points of Faith potential. After a short ritual designed to impress Wong, Rebecca concentrates, reaches out with her soul and uses Wong's belief to reshape his essence.

Adam, Rebecca's player, can spend the three points of Wong's Faith potential to modify the character. The first point is converted into 10 freebie points, and Adam uses them to improve Wong's Stamina and Dexterity by one dot each. The second dot is used to give Wong the Increased Size enhancement of Rebecca's apocalyptic form, which he can assume with a successful Willpower roll. With the final Faith point, Adam gives Wong Rebecca's immunity to mind-control, ensuring that her servant cannot be corrupted by her enemies.
Assuming a candidate animal that has, post-evocation, the average Faith potential of 2 that most mortals have(many dogs are a lot more attached to their humans than that, but lets just use this)?

Lash could reserve 1 point of Faith potential for herself to make the candidate animal a source of offered Faith(1 Faith point/day).
Then turn the second point into 10 Freebie Points, and spend them on buying Attribute dots (5 freebie points each) or Willpower dots (1 Freebie point each) for the animal before the scene ends and the evocation expires.

Thats Intelligence +2. Alternatively, Intelligence +1 and Willpower +5. Voila, sapience.
Thats something that appears to be entirely rules-compliant, and she can add additional Attributes/powers/features later if she so chooses as her command of the Lore of Flesh grows(assuming she doesnt already have Lore 5).

The only impediment here is whether the Storyteller thinks its kosher or not.
And thats up to you.
 
Do note, however that Porter simply says that a train means that he cant be driven/warded off like The Will did. And that it would be very difficult to chain him; not impossible, but difficult
It doesnt mean he cant be beaten.
"Perfect is the enemy of good enough" is a saying for a reason. Porter can be beaten, but the effort required to beat him is a variable which we have a say in.
AP hell is a thing as always.
Nevertheless, I feel strongly that overfocusing on one item leaves us open elsewhere. None of the other people we worry about even have a physical guard present.

We have spent the last six months, with 8 Actions or so building up Last Station. Thats been at a cost to other things and aspects.
Understandable, but that has limits.
You are proposing two Last Station actions in this coming turn:
  • Porter Train
  • Investigating the NeverNever side.

I dont think we can afford both this turn.
One or the other.
Right now Last Station is our most critical real world asset. It's the only active Dragon Nest we have access to (i.e. the only place where we can do high level crafting and rituals), the location of what amounts to our real-world small court, the known location our minions inhabit, and the place where we incarnated Lash. When a retaliation attack comes, and it will, it'll likely target us, and it'll likely target Last Station. Not to mention that we have a longer-term option to turn it into a Manse, and that would need a whole new level of protections.

Yes, Last Station is an AP sink, a big one. The largest we have, and likely will have for a long time (well, tied with school, really), but I am convinced it's more than worth it. And as to not being able to afford it this turn, I'm very much not sure that's correct. This is a turn where are being at least a bit proactive in going to Vegas. Establishing Paranet equivalent is important, but it's not pressing - we have dealt with the White Court genocide plan, and that should afford us a month or two of breathing room. We don't have assets to guard everyone we are acquainted with. We could make an Order of Cauldron protective deity - that was given as an option, or ward all their homes. That too, would take AP. But I am convinced we can afford to wait a month, and do home ground defenses rollout in the following order: Last Station - create a nucleus of almost unassailable strength, where you'll have to throw a truly overwhelming force at it to take it, and where Molly would be near gauaranteed to be able to get to it in time to reinforce defenses, then Order of Cauldron (home wards and protective deity), then mundane friends and allies (protective deity for Chicago Special Investigations + special equipment, a school spirit, wards for everyone's houses), then the city of Chicago itself (god of Chicago + raising a manse to generate a city-wide protective effect). This way each previous step provides additional cover and protection for the next one (Last Station as a place to retreat to, Order of Cauldron as practitioners to help in warding, special investigations to act as muscle with authority, etc).
Hmm I had not considered uplift, on the one hand it is workable in the long run, on the other she is in a bit of a bind, needing faith to work the major transformations that would give her that faith regeneration.
Fairly sure that one visit to a local hospice, or a children long term care center would provide her all the faith she needs. And would be more than ethical. She could even advertise as a faith healer.
 
Even with the Errata, its not a problem.
You boost the animal's Intelligence temporarily a la Flowers for Algernon, then make a Pact, and as a condition of the Pact raise the animal's Intelligence permanently by buying Attribute dots. No Faith is spent.

Citation:

Assuming a candidate animal that has, post-evocation, the average Faith potential of 2 that most mortals have(many dogs are a lot more attached to their humans than that, but lets just use this)?

Lash could reserve 1 point of Faith potential for herself to make the candidate animal a source of offered Faith(1 Faith point/day).
Then turn the second point into 10 Freebie Points, and spend them on buying Attribute dots (5 freebie points each) or Willpower dots (1 Freebie point each) for the animal before the scene ends and the evocation expires.

Thats Intelligence +2. Alternatively, Intelligence +1 and Willpower +5. Voila, sapience.
Thats something that appears to be entirely rules-compliant, and she can add additional Attributes/powers/features later if she so chooses as her command of the Lore of Flesh grows(assuming she doesnt already have Lore 5).

The only impediment here is whether the Storyteller thinks its kosher or not.
And thats up to you.

Explaining why intelligence is desirable to a being that was just uplifted, much less that and the concept of faith and pacts is going to take more than a single scene. She could just keep reapplying the lesser power I guess, but I think her first instinct would be to look for someone who is dying and make them not dying anymore.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Nov 8, 2023 at 2:55 AM, finished with 45 posts and 14 votes.
 
Explaining why intelligence is desirable to a being that was just uplifted, much less that and the concept of faith and pacts is going to take more than a single scene. She could just keep reapplying the lesser power I guess, but I think her first instinct would be to look for someone who is dying and make them not dying anymore.
Pacts dont require understanding as far as I can tell, just agreement from both parties. If they trust you and your recommendations, thats it. "If you agree to let me do so-and-so, I'll feed you steak for the next week" is a valid bargaining tactic as far as I can tell.

And we're talking a dog.
Trust in humans is a fundamental part of many of their natures. And given Lash has Longing as a Lore as well, she is quite likely to be able to throw max human dicecaps at the problem.

But like I said, this is a QM ruling thing.
 
Pacts dont require understanding as far as I can tell, just agreement from both parties. If they trust you and your recommendations, thats it. "If you agree to let me do so-and-so, I'll feed you steak for the next week" is a valid bargaining tactic as far as I can tell.

And we're talking a dog.
Trust in humans is a fundamental part of many of their natures. And given Lash has Longing as a Lore as well, she is quite likely to be able to throw max human dicecaps at the problem.

But like I said, this is a QM ruling thing.

The Demon core book makes it clear that you have to give someone something supernatural for faith, the implication to be at least seems to be 'they must understand and want your supernatural gift'.
 
Arc 10 Post 40: Feast of Far off Lands
Feast of Far off Lands

25th of December 2006 A.D.

There is a lot more green than red in the lights that shine over the Last Station, plastic trees cast sharp-edged shadows over faces not quite human: here a Sarah swallows a rib whole, mouth distending her jaw in improbable ways, there Jack stretches like a a cat in the sun as the TV plays Silent Night, Deadly Night to a mixed audience of ghouls and humans... a lot of humans, a lot of humans you have not seen before. You take another look around and everywhere you look an unfamiliar face, many of them young, too thin solemn expressions as they quietly watch the food being served.

"How many new people do we have?" you ask, tapping Sarah on the shoulder.

"Oh, sixty nine this morning," she answers, human seeming flowing back over her. Voice dropping into a whisper that only those with unnaturally sharp senses could pick up over the noise of the TV and the the speakers playing The Twelve Days of Christmas in counter-point. "Why is that a problem?"

"No, just something to keep in mind when making the budget." Something for Clippy to keep in mind to be precise, hand Thomas the next shipment of diamonds tomorrow ask him to sell them pronto. You had been planning to leave that off to the new year so he could have some time with his girlfriend, but more than sixty new people who are going to need... everything changes all that. "Anyone else?"

For a long moment the only sound is the squeak of her sneakers against the tile floor, shuffling her feet. "Six and sixteen."

"What?" You really should have taken more of a look around when you brought in Hand of Gently Falling Ash and the others.

"Six vampires of the White Court, sixteen like us, ghouls," Sarah explains. "We have been doing outreach all these months and with a big feast coming it felt like a good moment to pitch it to everyone, you know spirit of the season. A lot of folk are going hungry and... maybe people are more likely to believe in things that sound too good to be true around this time of year."

Jade Dogs Gain 69 Mortals 16 Ghouls and 6 Vampires

"How did you get everyone stuff?" There is admittedly a part of you that dreads the Jade Dogs had been doing some 'wealth acquisition' on the side, but by now you are mostly just impressed.

"The vampires had their own stuff, they came with suitcases and sleeping bags, you know. As for the rest: we are used to making due with one or two changes of clothes and its not like we all need jackets and winter socks, just the ones who go above."

"Stay here I'm going to get some supplies from the other side."

The half-dozen agents of the Hand you pick up obviously had not expected their first goal in their new mission to be organizing supplies for people Earth-side, but they had been selected for organizational skills as much as an ability to deal with the unexpected. And clearly you know what you are doing, you are the Empress.

"Indeed Majesty, you begin to understand." Usum's tone is dead serious, no matter the mental prods.

In recompense you have him organize most of the logistical effort. Thankfully it is not too hard to get across what people need since the answer is 'everything' the same as one might setting up a long terms outpost in the deep jungles, if for some reason one were to bring children to such an outpost.

***​

26th of December 2006 A.D.

By the end of the second day of Chrismas everything from clothes to furnishings to cuttlrery has a touch of the alien about it, flowing easily adjustable curves cleaming brass and colorful silks. Tables now span spindly legs and beds come with built in white noise projectors. You cannot just keep ferrying in food in the long term no matter how much the kids enjoy the thought of eating real live dinosaur for the Chrimas feast.
[...]
We all like our dino pudding
We all like our dino pudding
We all like our dino pudding
With all its good cheers

Good tidings we bring to you and your kin
We wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year

We wish you a merry Christmas
We wish you a merry Christmas
We wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year

The pudding, more akin to more akin to Chinese almond jelly really as far as the taste goes according to Augustus who has the most experienced palette present, does not have any dinosaurs in it, but there's no arguing with kids, empress or no. Absently you skip a step to avoid Porter's gift loose in the station, animated by his will the model train does not need anything so crude as actual tracks to roam around in, it runs where the stone dragon wills and right now he wills that it do figure eights... or maybe that is an infinity set on the side.

What do you do next?

[] Give gifts to Harry, Mouse and Bob

[] Your mother said she wants to talk to you about some of the things Lash herd and which she guesses you heard as well


[] Write in

OOC: I did not do rolls for entering your own hell realm because you have excelency so realisitically you would make it and with the Dragon's nest the Essence use recovers in 45 minutes.
 
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With how many people we are getting, I am strongly convinced that we should go all in on defenses. This is mass-casuality event waiting to happen when someone decides to take revenge on us.
 
The Demon core book makes it clear that you have to give someone something supernatural for faith, the implication to be at least seems to be 'they must understand and want your supernatural gift'.
1) Firstly, I would argue that you underestimate the ability of animals to value improved problem solving ability.
Especially the smarter animals.

There's many videos of wild crows learning to use tools in order to access food, or just scheming to start fights for their own amusement. Of dogs attempting to communicate with their owners using those talking foot pad things.
Of orcas luring birds into range with bait.

Or the shenanigans octopi get up to.



2) Secondly?

2 Faith points average. 1 point for Lash, the other point for the candidate.
Convert that point into 10 Freebie Points.
Spend up to 5 Freebie Points on a Supernatural Merit; that still leaves you with 5 FP for 1 dot of Intelligence.

Just sticking with M20 Book of Secrets?
Burning Aura and Green Thumb is 1 point, Unaging is 2 points, Cloak of the Seasons and Oracular Ability is 3 points, Spark of Life and Legendary Attribute is 5 points, while Immortal is 5-7 points and Spirit Magnet is 3-7 points.

Something like Nephilim/Laham would be thematically appropriate for a valued Thrall of a Demon, but its a 7 point Merit, and so wouldnt be feasible under this plan anyway.
And thats not counting DTF supernatural merits, or those from other book lines like W20.


There is no mechanical impediment I can see. Its just a question of whether you're comfortable with the story going in that direction.


Also, note that Demons can apparently get Faith from ghosts according to Houses of the Fallen, so the potential pool of recruits gets fairly broad.
An uplifted dog companion here, a ghost there, a wyldfae there, a mortal human way over there.....


Feast of Far off Lands​
25th of December 2006 A.D.
COMMENTARY
Loling at Deadly Night.

The Jade Dogs were 9-10 ghouls(minus Adam), 3 Whampires, and 6 humans. Plus Augustus.
Which brings us to ~19 members.
With the addition of 69 humans, 16 ghouls and 6 Whampires, we're looking at 110 people.

And thats before the ~20 Brass Court operatives got here, though they are going up top soon enough.

Assuming a monthly budget of around 2k a head, we're looking at around a quarter of a million dollars.
Maybe a little lower, since a significant number appear to be kids, and we can bring some stuff from the Courts.
Still looks to be adding up, though I wont be surprised if some of the mortals leave when spring comes.


Its good that we have managed to socialize the Dogs enough that they are willing to share their own bounty with the less blessed instead of hoarding shit. Its bad that they didnt expect Molly would extend to resources for the newcomers, and so didnt tell her once they showed up, instead attempting to spread their resources thinner.

There's always the possibility that one of the mortals is a spy, but we'll see.
Most of the security measures arent obvious.
 
With how many people we are getting, I am strongly convinced that we should go all in on defenses. This is mass-casuality event waiting to happen when someone decides to take revenge on us.
What we need to do is arm and organize a security team. We keep adding fixed defenses and then expecting our ghouls to defend the place with their piddly claws.

Our fixed defenses haven't ever seemed to change the equation, but having some lightning guns and real armor might actually let some of them survive and escape when it gets smashed open again.
 
1) Firstly, I would argue that you underestimate the ability of animals to value improved problem solving ability.
Especially the smarter animals.

There's many videos of wild crows learning to use tools in order to access food, or just scheming to start fights for their own amusement. Of dogs attempting to communicate with their owners using those talking foot pad things.
Of orcas luring birds into range with bait.

Or the shenanigans octopi get up to.



2) Secondly?

2 Faith points average. 1 point for Lash, the other point for the candidate.
Convert that point into 10 Freebie Points.
Spend up to 5 Freebie Points on a Supernatural Merit; that still leaves you with 5 FP for 1 dot of Intelligence.

Just sticking with M20 Book of Secrets?
Burning Aura and Green Thumb is 1 point, Unaging is 2 points, Cloak of the Seasons and Oracular Ability is 3 points, Spark of Life and Legendary Attribute is 5 points, while Immortal is 5-7 points and Spirit Magnet is 3-7 points.

Something like Nephilim/Laham would be thematically appropriate for a valued Thrall of a Demon, but its a 7 point Merit, and so wouldnt be feasible under this plan anyway.
And thats not counting DTF supernatural merits, or those from other book lines like W20.


There is no mechanical impediment I can see. Its just a question of whether you're comfortable with the story going in that direction.


Also, note that Demons can apparently get Faith from ghosts according to Houses of the Fallen, so the potential pool of recruits gets fairly broad.
An uplifted dog companion here, a ghost there, a wyldfae there, a mortal human way over there.....

It is a grey area if demon freebies can grant merits at all. It says: These points can buy or improve traits such as attributes, abilities or willpower, they cannot be used to buy points in Background.

So they are just not mentioned in either category, I think the reason for that is that Demon, the core book does not have merits and flaws at all

I am going to say she definitely cannot go full VEE and make someone immortal with one faith point, She can do metal, physical and social merits up to 3 points lets say, reasonably strong stuff but not Spirit Magnet or the like. Lash does not have the authority for it.
 
[X] Give gifts to Harry, Mouse and Bob

In regard to the Last Station... I just had the image of Mister Grinch tiptoeing into one of the main halls, dinner table lain out, and just having shittons of ghouls who are increasingly laid back about their natural states along with terror and despair-channeling white court just turn their chairs around and staring. And staring. And staring. Even before he realizes that the wall behind him has a toothy grin.

And Mister Grinch, with a single gulp, politely takes as seat and is a good boy for the rest of the night.

Today is damn fucking well going to be merry or else skins are going to be used as war banners.
By odd coincidence, I was recently reading this interesting Substack post which has an esoteric reading of the Grinch story as one where the Grinch originally was killed, and the Whos rewrote the story later to look nicer.

A brief summary:
Scapegoating is an ancient and recurring feature throughout history. "Things are going badly, let's blame and murder this guy, and then surely things will go well again." Since a lot of bad times are random and temporary fluctuations, the murder often looks like it improves things by coincidence.
How The Grinch Stole Christmas, despite the name, is a book written from the POV of the Whos: it starts with the Whos, and it presents the Whos as the harmonious natural order, which the Grinch comes to disrupt for no particular reason other than being a Villain Person with a Villain Heart, as one might expect of the designated scapegoat.
(IRL, this is probably because it's a book for small children without complex motivations, but in anything more adult this would smell of Whovian propaganda.)
One of the common methods of killing a scapegoat is to run him off a cliff, so nobody has to get tainted by touching the scapegoat.
With this in mind, the Whovian telling that "we were having a good time, then the Grinch stole Christmas and ran up the mountain, but then he had a last-minute change of heart on the highest cliff, and then our prosperity came back"
looks like a euphemised scapegoat story "we were having a good time, then the Grinch stole Christmas and we chased him up the mountain, and we killed him by driving him off the highest cliff, and then our prosperity came back"
 
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2 Faith points average. 1 point for Lash, the other point for the candidate.
For humans, dogs might have less. Or more, that's actually debatable.

What we need to do is arm and organize a security team. We keep adding fixed defenses and then expecting our ghouls to defend the place with their piddly claws.

Our fixed defenses haven't ever seemed to change the equation, but having some lightning guns and real armor might actually let some of them survive and escape when it gets smashed open again.
We have 1 data point, and that was for a far less developed system. And it's much better to lose defensive equipment than personnel.
Assuming a monthly budget of around 2k a head, we're looking at around a quarter of a million dollars.
Maybe a little lower, since a significant number appear to be kids, and we can bring some stuff from the Courts.
Still looks to be adding up, though I wont be surprised if some of the mortals leave when spring comes.
True, but we should look into having them start to turn some manner of profit. If only as part of reintegrating them into a wider society.
 
We have 1 data point, and that was for a far less developed system. And it's much better to lose defensive equipment than personnel.
No one we've fought so far seems like they'd be deterred by what we have.

In any case providing actual weapons and armor is purely beneficial and isn't something further defensive infrastructure will render obsolete. Starting there would be enough of an improvement to make using our AP somewhere else this month reasonable.
 
Vote closed. Sorry for the short vote period, but I'm feeling under the weather and writing helps
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Nov 8, 2023 at 11:09 AM, finished with 16 posts and 7 votes.
 
The Jade Dogs were 9-10 ghouls(minus Adam), 3 Whampires, and 6 humans. Plus Augustus.
Which brings us to ~19 members.
With the addition of 69 humans, 16 ghouls and 6 Whampires, we're looking at 110 people.
I'm damn glad we came here before Harry. These guys needed that food early in the day.

I have to wonder what the family distribution for the Whamps is. Who was terror, who was despair, who was rage...
Assuming a monthly budget of around 2k a head, we're looking at around a quarter of a million dollars.
Maybe a little lower, since a significant number appear to be kids, and we can bring some stuff from the Courts.
Still looks to be adding up, though I wont be surprised if some of the mortals leave when spring comes.
Fewer mortals might leave than you expect. The streets might be survivable for people in shitty situations during the warmer months but getting back into society again after thinking yourself lucky to be living out a car can look like scaling Mount Everest. What is down here in the Station is safe and solid and at least doesn't look like its going to leave you worse off than when you started even if its not exactly the American Dream.

This right here is why I don't want to leave Chicago. Sure, Cambridge is where the movers-and-shakers are but, well, this is where society is failing the most.
Its good that we have managed to socialize the Dogs enough that they are willing to share their own bounty with the less blessed instead of hoarding shit. Its bad that they didnt expect Molly would extend to resources for the newcomers, and so didnt tell her once they showed up, instead attempting to spread their resources thinner.
It says nothing but good things about the lot of them. But we'll have to make sure that they are fully instrumentalized here on out. If they are ready to take unofficial duties this readily they are ready to take official ones.

Our army is now large enough we are going to need a dedicated quartermaster working out what this site needs and what it will need and who can give orders on distribution and preparation. Hell, its big enough that we probably need at least a handful of other fulltime or near-fulltime positions. Just looking at daily food preparation this is going to take more than one set of hands every day forever, much less every other daily need considering we're even getting children in reasonable numbers now. That means we'll need somebody assigning and assembling more and more volunteer work crews and headhunting members with some experience with relevant subjects.

We're definitely burning an action figuring out wholesale logistics in the near future. We'll need a walk-in freezer you could store a dead mammoth in, even ignoring setting up the same sort of wholesale purchases restaurants use. I see many 50 pound sacks of rice and oats in our future.

Hopefully any volunteer work teams actually pick up skills that let them improve their lot, here or elsewhere, though good luck putting anything you do here on a resume. Maybe it means when we state acquiring businesses and other infrastructure we can just hire internally. It would certainly help if the people we employ at that stage know about (and are comfortable with) things that go bump in the night.
There's always the possibility that one of the mortals is a spy, but we'll see.
Most of the security measures arent obvious.
Depending on who it is a spy for, we may or may not even care. If Marcone's cynical ass is trying to figure out what we are doing on our porch... and I probably would in his place... big whoop. Congrats, dude, I'm sure he would think we are building an army, which we kind of are, but it changes dick-all for either one of us. Like him, deal with him, or don't... it just doesn't change much as long as he never picks up a coin or something similar.

We have assholes we worry about and assholes we don't.
 
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