Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

She can max out her own mental and physical stats over a week or so, if she takes care.
Or that of an ally or minion.
QM might still charge you XP for them, though, if she was a PC.
Any idea on who it would be, er, polite to try to minionize in the near future? As useful as it would be the idea still makes me somewhat uncomfortable both because there might be metaphysical considerations for the recipients, a potential of relapse for Best Girl Lash, and other figures who rightly worry about Denarian-adjacent creatures power building too hard and fast. And the basic power dynamic snarls if she ends up aiding any of ours and crossing puppet strings.

Or what happens if her Coin reaches her and subverts the whole network in an instant.
 
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You have manufacturing difficulties, then, because Lash would have to personally sit down and hand model each and every one. Doing a couple fistfuls of models in an afternoon, and maybe a little bit extra after the first decade so you have fresh blood to prevent inbreeding, great, but having to do custom jobs every time is just a bad investment.
That's what the Puppy Tree would be for.
 
You could read it that way.
But it's a power with no cost or time-limit and I don't think it should be allowed to stack with itself.
Non-stacking is a good general rule. New attempts just replace the previous ones. So you can try to generate more successes on your roll if the first try wasn't very good but it won't be some ground breaking achievement, unless your first roll was incredibly bad.

I'm going to say nerf-bat on that one, specifically you can have one instance of that working at any one time per person. If you want permanent improvements that is Flesh 5.
I'd say Shape Flesh also shouldn't stack. So if Lash, or someone else, makes a use of it and say gets 5 successes, then increases Faith and makes a new attempt with 12 successes it won't be 5+12 but 5+7 instead. A new better attempt just replaces previous one instead of building on it.

That still gives pretty ridiculous potential results at high Faith (as in 30+ successes to spread around) but at least it has a theoretical limit and not a straight up "build your own Kaiju" power.

As befits their Faustian nature Demons are a lot more free with what they can give to others (in exchange for their devotion) than what they can do for themselves or regular allies.
It's funny how Lash now has so many abilities that mimic Molly but with a twist.
 
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I disagree. Lash is a partial copy of an entity with a long history of forking off secondary instances of herself and then later reassimilating them back into herself.

For Lash, based on her experiences as Laschiel, she'd not a child, she's a lesser iteration, and she'll remember having been lesser iterations that have rejoined the over self before, as well as being the overself.

She's not human, and doesn't come from a human cultural context. She's (or has the memories of) an eldritch entity from before time and space who have been capable of this kind of forking and merging long before humans existed, and presumably came up with language and patterns of thought to understand it. Lash isn't Laschiel's child, she's a rogue fork, and they should both have the intellectual/language concepts to describe and contextualise it.
Again, the whole point of our discussion with her so far is that she's her own person; that's why her name is different. It's not just a nickname, it was a cornerstone of convincing her to accept a new identity because this sort of thing matters to spirits.
If you asked her to describe herself in natural language Lash would say she's a walking shadow since her vocabulary tends to poetry more than programing, but otherwise yes, 'child' would not even occur to her, children are innocent.
Being Lasciel's child isn't the same as being a child though. Being born wholly formed isn't that unusual for spirits.
 
Non-stacking is a good general rule. New attempts just replace the previous ones. So you can try to generate more successes on your roll if the first try wasn't very good but it won't be some ground breaking achievement, unless your first roll was incredibly bad.


I'd say Shape Flesh also shouldn't stack. So if Lash, or someone else, makes a use of it and say gets 5 successes, then increases Faith and makes a new attempt with 12 successes it won't be 5+12 but 5+7 instead. A new better attempt just replaces previous one instead of building on it.

That still gives pretty ridiculous potential results at high Faith (as in 30+ successes to spread around) but at least it has a theoretical limit and not a straight up "build your own Kaiju" power.


It's funny how Lash now has so many abilities that mimic Molly but with a twist.

Shape Flesh very specifically can stack:

• • • • • SHAPE FLESH
The demon is capable of transforming human flesh into any shape desired. Mortals or fallen can become monstrous creatures straight out of legend.
System: Spend one Faith point and roll Dexterity + Medicine in a resisted roll against the target's Willpower (difficulty 7). The player decides the form she wishes to create, along with its relevant physical capabilities, and the Storyteller determines the number of successes necessary to make the form a reality.
These successes can be generated as part of an extended roll over a period of days (one roll per day) as the demon "tinkers" with her creation. As a rule of thumb, assume that each success confers or removes one Physical Attribute point or physical feature. The effects of this evocation last for a number of days equal to the character's Faith score, or they can be made permanent by expending one temporary Willpower point. Devourers can use this evocation on themselves or others, as long as they can touch a subject.
Torment: Monstrous demons' alterations are invariably warped by their Torment, creating grotesque deformities that transform victims into walking nightmares.
Such a hideous metamorphosis causes the victim to gain a temporary derangement and to suffer a level of lethal damage each day as a result of the intolerable strain placed on his body. Mortals who witness these creatures suffer the effects of Revelation.

The limitations on it are:
  1. The demon's very valuable time
  2. The fact that shape flesh still has to follow the laws of biology, this is still shaping flesh. From Werewolf Attributes over 5 do not look human and 10 is the limit even if you are willing to look inhuman
  3. The risk of botching if you just keep tinkering forever
 
The limitations on it are:
  1. The demon's very valuable time
  2. The fact that shape flesh still has to follow the laws of biology, this is still shaping flesh. From Werewolf Attributes over 5 do not look human and 10 is the limit even if you are willing to look inhuman
  3. The risk of botching if you just keep tinkering forever
When a Demon uses a power and gains less successes than their permanent Torment, they accidentally use the High Torment version of the power.

Her one-success roll on Read Emotions last chapter might have accidentally made Harry live out his darkest desires. He can resist with WP, and he easily would given his high score there and Lash's presumably low Torment, but it's worth remembering that it is very easy for a demon to mess up when using their powers.
And using them several times in a row means messing up at least once.

Unless you want to houserule that to be a bit more forgiving, or have Lash start with no Torment, or only 1 permanent for the start which effectively means that only failures provoke accidental evil.
 
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I do expect that Uriel or Michael or one of the others is going to beat us to the Carpenter home; probably already there.
I kinda expect some representative of the Opposition to also be there. If Lash's existence actually requires an emergency rule patch, I expect the opposition to get a say in that, if only because the Rules almost certainly say so.
So right now Lash isn't very strong*, but give her a few weeks to shape herself up and she should be wrestling werewolves.

*Might actually be knocked over by a breeze.

Edit: Now I wonder if Lash can return the favor and enhance Molly right back. Having maxed out stats would be nice.
Faith of a Celestial Exalt might be too much for her to handle right now. Or Molly can't have faith because she subconsciously knows / defines how the world works. She might be able to offer essence instead. Otherwise, yeah, jolly cooperation for the win!
I'm going to say nerf-bat on that one, specifically you can have one instance of that working at any one time per person. If you want permanent improvements that is Flesh 5.
As I said, Jolly cooperation. So, one instance per character only. Intelligence+Medicine. A 2 point splendor (Invincible Assertion + Mystic fortification) gives Lash +1 guaranteed success, no botching (meaning, as I understand it, and please correct me, 1s don't count as minuses), and -2DC to the rolls.

Also, and please correct me, but I am not seeing "cannot raise values above X" in the power. And for your nerfbat I strongly advise you that before reapplying it to herself Lash would need to drop the previous instance. Otherwise you can create a positive feedback loop and end with Intelligence 9000+ and generating thousands of successes per cast.
 
Any idea on who it would be, er, polite to try to minionize in the near future? As useful as it would be the idea still makes me somewhat uncomfortable both because there might be metaphysical considerations for the recipients, a potential of relapse for Best Girl Lash, and other figures who rightly worry about Denarian-adjacent creatures power building too hard and fast. And the basic power dynamic snarls if she ends up aiding any of ours and crossing puppet strings.

Or what happens if her Coin reaches her and subverts the whole network in an instant.
Does Dresden know about that Amanda Beckett at this point? Making a deal with Marcone to give him juice and heal her would be a strong temptation for her.

Might even pick up Helen at the same, and she should have decent faith potential since she's a decent ritualist. That implicitly involves invoking forces greater than yourself to work.

Edit:
Faith of a Celestial Exalt might be too much for her to handle right now. Or Molly can't have faith because she subconsciously knows / defines how the world works. She might be able to offer essence instead. Otherwise, yeah, jolly cooperation for the win!
Becoming a thrall seems like too much subordination to me. Giving faith requires having faith in her in a way I think Molly would find uncomfortable even if that wasn't a factor.

Remember these aren't just rules and words to the people IC, they're things they experience and have narrative consequences.
 
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Also, and please correct me, but I am not seeing "cannot raise values above X" in the power.
I think it's a more general rule for WoD, for "non-magical" creatures. 10 in the relevant attributes is still scary.

The biggest limit is actually that the power as worded is limited to humans and fallen only. So you can't take an insect and turn it into a gun or power armour.
 
"And I assumed that if it did work the result would me mostly human. Oh perhaps I would have some capacity for mortal magic, perhaps even that I would be what the Council counts a full wizard. This is not human, memory of grace and counterfeit divinity stitched together with threads spun out of Old Night."

be not me

I really wish I had the time to vote on this, but that is life sometimes. Good luck everyone.
 
When a Demon uses a power and gains less successes than their permanent Torment, they accidentally use the High Torment version of the power.

Her one-success roll on Read Emotions last chapter might have accidentally made Harry live out his darkest desires. He can resist with WP, and he easily would given his high score there and Lash's presumably low Torment, but it's worth remembering that it is very easy for a demon to mess up when using their powers.
And using them several times in a row means messing up at least once.

Unless you want to houserule that to be a bit more forgiving, or have Lash start with no Torment, or only 1 permanent for the start which effectively means that only failures provoke accidental evil.

That is not quite how it works


Your successful dice cannot show numbers higher than your permanent Torment. Success as a default meant 6+ which means a Demon with 1-5 Torment can never have it increase from this cause, though they can choose to use the high torment version which will give them a temp point.
 
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Prometheus​
23th of December 2006 A.D.
COMMENTARY
It does speak to how far Harry has come, or at least how much he trusts Molly's judgement, that he's willing to take a plate of food from ghouls and vampires without even thinking about it. Do remember this is the guy who was poisoned by a Red Court-drugged drink, so he would normally have issues about that sort of thing.

It does speak to the ghoul experience, and that of the humans and vampires with them that a place held by a majority ghoul population would appear to have fresh food available almost constantly if they
If there's nothing else Molly can be proud of having accomplished this year, that much

Porter is certainly getting an eyeful. The last six months have been exciting for him.

So she's a Demon now. Lores of Flesh, Light and Longing.
Looking at her offer, that sounds like she has Flesh 4 at a minimum.
Could be wrong though.

You know, I wonder if Lash can only make Pacts with vanilla mortals.
Because I can very much see her being able to make deals with some Fae for things like immunity to mind control or supernatural charm in return for Faith. Given how many Little Folk there are in Chicago?

Even if it doesnt work for pure Fae, it probably works for changelings who want to stay changelings and not Choose.

Im guessing that little black dress is a product of the Lore of Light.
Either Light 2: Bend Light, or Light 5: Coherent Light.
I'll lowball it at Light 2. Wonder if Molly will realize it.

The fact that shes walking around in a Chicago December like that suggests she retains immunity to environmental conditions/hazards.


Ground Rules​
24th of December 2006 A.D.
COMMENTARY
Loling at Molly's cheerful reaction to Harry's careful non-reaction to Lash flirting.

Given Lash's apparent voraciousness, we should probably make a detour into the kitchen when we get home.
But on our way home, we could stop at a drivethrough and get her a Big Mac or something.

Good thing she has such a clear view
Because Im betting that mechanically, she currently has Enemy 5 on her char sheet, just by existing. Possibly multiple Enemy 5s, depending on whether we count individual Denarians as separate entities.

A LOT of people are going to be interested in her, and not just the Denarians who want to kill or vivisect her.
Naagloshii who want a powerup snack, Rampires who might want to drink her blood, other spirits who might want to steal the body, fomor and their minions looking to enslave her, Outsiders looking to do the same thing....

Even the Fae will be curious. Her name probably has popped up on Odin Santa Claus's naughty or nice list.
And Molly has probably picked up Lasciel as a personal Enemy, same as Harry has.

I wonder what her True Name is now, since it almost certainly has changed from whatever her clone-mother originally bestowed upon her. Molly should know given her role in incarnating her. Harry might, depending on what he saw.
I assume she isnt going to just go by Lash.


Given that her Apocalyptic Form appears to have wings while none of her Lores has wings as a base thing?
Im guessing she has Flesh 5. Probably going to need the Lore of Fundament if she has any aspirations to engaging in serious combat, because thats where the Demon version of Celerity is.

Longing 1, Light 2, Flesh 5.
Apocalyptic Form: Aruru, Visage of Flesh
Visage of Flesh said:
The angels of the flesh, who can alter their forms more completely than even the Defilers, manifest themselves as idealized versions of their own mortal forms. Their power exalts the mortal shells that they inhabit, removing any blemishes or deformities and refining their original features to perfection. In away, this makes their appearance just as alien and wondrous as the shimmering apparitions of their Celestial kin.

The Visage of Flesh confers the following special capabilities.

• Enhanced Social Traits: The refinement of the character's features, mannerisms and voice provides the following bonus traits: +1 Charisma, +1 Manipulation,+2 Appearance.
• Immune to Poisons: The character is immune to damage or impairment from any toxins, including alcohol and nicotine.
• Improved Initiative: Add two to the character's initiative.
• Casts No Reflection: The demon's image does not appear in a mirror, nor can it be captured in a photograph or by a video camera.

Torment: High-Torment Aruru bear little resemblance to human beings, their original shape being lost in a swollen mountain of undulating flesh. Muscle,bone and organs roil and shift from moment to moment without the demon's conscious control.
The Visage of Flesh confers the following high-Torment special capabilities.
• Extra Health Levels: The demon gains three extra Bruised health levels for the purposes of absorbing damage.
• Armor: The demon's undulating mass of gristle and flesh provides four levels of armor for the purposes of soaking bashing, lethal and aggravated damage.
• Gaping Maw: The demon can chew and digest almost anything — metal, stone or flesh. The difficulties of bite attacks decrease by two, and a bite itself inflicts Strength +4 aggravated damage.
• Regeneration: The demon regenerates one health level of bashing or lethal damage per turn, automatically as a reflexive action.
Looking at the rolls: Charisma + Subterfuge 5. Charisma + Empathy 6. Perception + Awareness 5. Perception + Empathy 7.
If I had to guess, that comes to Charisma 3, Subterfuge 2, Empathy 3, Perception 4, Awareness 1



Any idea on who it would be, er, polite to try to minionize in the near future? As useful as it would be the idea still makes me somewhat uncomfortable both because there might be metaphysical considerations for the recipients, a potential of relapse for Best Girl Lash, and other figures who rightly worry about Denarian-adjacent creatures power building too hard and fast. And the basic power dynamic snarls if she ends up aiding any of ours and crossing puppet strings.

Or what happens if her Coin reaches her and subverts the whole network in an instant.
Like I said above? My immediate inclination is to go look for some pixies.

Consider how many Little Folk there are in Chicago, and find out if they are mortal enough to qualify.
A troop of Wyldfae would probably cover all her Faith issues, and she's been privy to Harry's friendship with Toot-Toot et al.
Especially if she adds a subscription of pizza.
 
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Your successful dice cannot show numbers higher than your permanent Torment. Success as a default meant 6+ which means a Demon with 1-5 Torment can never have it increase from this cause, though they can choose to use the high torment version which will give them a temp point.
Thank god my reading comprehension sucks today.
I blame it on a fading cold and a long workday.
 
Given that her Apocalyptic Form appears to have wings while none of her Lores has wings as a base thing?
Im guessing she has Flesh 5. Probably going to need the Lore of Fundament if she has any aspirations to engaging in serious combat, because thats where the Demon version of Celerity is.
The Demon Player's Guide has traits for costume Visages.
 
I kinda expect some representative of the Opposition to also be there. If Lash's existence actually requires an emergency rule patch, I expect the opposition to get a say in that, if only because the Rules almost certainly say so.
Nah.
They neither have the information capabilities of Heaven, nor do they have a say in the free will of other people.
Nor are they welcome in Michael's house.

The Demon Player's Guide has traits for costume Visages.
Really?
*goes to check*
 
Im guessing that little black dress is a product of the Lore of Light.
Or it's something we brought in advance, since this was a heavily prepared event.

It's not iron clad proof, but she just took a pretty big swing at Harry, I imagine if she was actually wearing an illusion she would have made a comment about it to fluster him harder.


Given that her Apocalyptic Form appears to have wings while none of her Lores has wings as a base thing?
Im guessing she has Flesh 5. Probably going to need the Lore of Fundament if she has any aspirations to engaging in serious combat, because thats where the Demon version of Celerity is.
The wings are built into the base body. Given the prominence of light in Harry's monologue I think that might be her primary.

Edit: should have refreshed the page
 
The dress is actually a dress, she is dressed... maybe not warmly, but completely. Molly asked her what she wanted to be dressed in before starting all this
Ah. Okay.
So she just has superhuman environmental tolerances to be walking around in a little black dress in Chicago in December.
Instead of sitting in Black Rider only clad in illusion.
 
COMMENTARY
It does speak to how far Harry has come, or at least how much he trusts Molly's judgement, that he's willing to take a plate of food from ghouls and vampires without even thinking about it. Do remember this is the guy who was poisoned by a Red Court-drugged drink, so he would normally have issues about that sort of thing.

It does speak to the ghoul experience, and that of the humans and vampires with them that a place held by a majority ghoul population would appear to have fresh food available almost constantly if they
If there's nothing else Molly can be proud of having accomplished this year, that much

Porter is certainly getting an eyeful. The last six months have been exciting for him.

So she's a Demon now. Lores of Flesh, Light and Longing.
Looking at her offer, that sounds like she has Flesh 4 at a minimum.
Could be wrong though.

You know, I wonder if Lash can only make Pacts with vanilla mortals.
Because I can very much see her being able to make deals with some Fae for things like immunity to mind control or supernatural charm in return for Faith. Given how many Little Folk there are in Chicago?

Even if it doesnt work for pure Fae, it probably works for changelings who want to stay changelings and not Choose.

Im guessing that little black dress is a product of the Lore of Light.
Either Light 2: Bend Light, or Light 5: Coherent Light.
I'll lowball it at Light 2. Wonder if Molly will realize it.

The fact that shes walking around in a Chicago December like that suggests she retains immunity to environmental conditions/hazards.



COMMENTARY
Loling at Molly's cheerful reaction to Harry's careful non-reaction to Lash flirting.

Given Lash's apparent voraciousness, we should probably make a detour into the kitchen when we get home.
But on our way home, we could stop at a drivethrough and get her a Big Mac or something.

Good thing she has such a clear view
Because Im betting that mechanically, she currently has Enemy 5 on her char sheet, just by existing. Possibly multiple Enemy 5s, depending on whether we count individual Denarians as separate entities.

A LOT of people are going to be interested in her, and not just the Denarians who want to kill or vivisect her.
Naagloshii who want a powerup snack, Rampires who might want to drink her blood, other spirits who might want to steal the body, fomor and their minions looking to enslave her, Outsiders looking to do the same thing....

Even the Fae will be curious. Her name probably has popped up on Odin Santa Claus's naughty or nice list.
And Molly has probably picked up Lasciel as a personal Enemy, same as Harry has.

I wonder what her True Name is now, since it almost certainly has changed from whatever her clone-mother originally bestowed upon her. Molly should know given her role in incarnating her. Harry might, depending on what he saw.
I assume she isnt going to just go by Lash.



Given that her Apocalyptic Form appears to have wings while none of her Lores has wings as a base thing?
Im guessing she has Flesh 5. Probably going to need the Lore of Fundament if she has any aspirations to engaging in serious combat, because thats where the Demon version of Celerity is.

Longing 1, Light 2, Flesh 5.
Apocalyptic Form: Aruru, Visage of Flesh

Looking at the rolls: Charisma + Subterfuge 5. Charisma + Empathy 6. Perception + Awareness 5. Perception + Empathy 7.
If I had to guess, that comes to Charisma 3, Subterfuge 2, Empathy 3, Perception 4, Awareness 1




Like I said above? My immediate inclination is to go look for some pixies.

Consider how many Little Folk there are in Chicago, and find out if they are mortal enough to qualify.
A troop of Wyldfae would probably cover all her Faith issues, and she's been privy to Harry's friendship with Toot-Toot et al.
Especially if she adds a subscription of pizza.
She gives them great strength and immunity to possession and mind control...

But it is to "She who brings pizza" that they direct their prayers.
 
I'm going to say nerf-bat on that one, specifically you can have one instance of that working at any one time per person. If you want permanent improvements that is Flesh 5.
Demon Players Guide errata'd it into being a scene-long
Demon Players Guide p14 said:
Manipulate Flesh (Lore of the Flesh •••): The effects of this evocation last for the duration of the scene. (page 208)
 
Nah.
They neither have the information capabilities of Heaven, nor do they have a say in the free will of other people.
Nor are they welcome in Michael's house.
Note, I said Opposition, not denarians. I meant that it wouldn't surprise me if Lucifer graced Carpenter household with their presence this night.
I'm going to say nerf-bat on that one, specifically you can have one instance of that working at any one time per person. If you want permanent improvements that is Flesh 5.
The canon nerf-bat is actually even more nerfing. Player's book (page 14) sets duration of Manipulate Flesh to 1 scene. I like yours (1 long-lasting change) much better, to be honest. It allows for curing the blind and such.
Looking at her offer, that sounds like she has Flesh 4 at a minimum.
If Manipulate Flesh is permanent, then I think that would be enough. Immunities and resistances to magic effects are under "Other abilities":
Other Abilities: Demons enjoy many special abili-
ties, such as their immunity to possession. The demon
can impart one of these advantages to a thrall. Simi-
larly, the demon can bestow a gift of a more general
nature, such as the ability to see or walk again.
Lash cannot be possessed, and can gift that immunity to others (incidentally, she would make a huge profit on this)
 
Note, I said Opposition, not denarians. I meant that it wouldn't surprise me if Lucifer graced Carpenter household with their presence this night.

The canon nerf-bat is actually even more nerfing. Player's book (page 14) sets duration of Manipulate Flesh to 1 scene. I like yours (1 long-lasting change) much better, to be honest. It allows for curing the blind and such.

If Manipulate Flesh is permanent, then I think that would be enough. Immunities and resistances to magic effects are under "Other abilities":

Lash cannot be possessed, and can gift that immunity to others (incidentally, she would make a huge profit on this)

She can still cure the blind with pacts and with shape flesh.
 
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