Less scale to threat IMO, more bringing opposition down to mortal scale.
Makes it limited against mortal magic users unless wielding them in defense of another or the like.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Makes it limited against mortal magic users unless wielding them in defense of another or the like.
- Location
- Germany
@uju32
I think you are seriously overestimating how much nepalese monks should care about keeping a deal with Marcone.
Assuming they don't usually deal with criminals they have literally no touch-points.
They are in a monastery in the Himalaya and usually have no need for smuggled wares in America.
Marcone is in Chicago and can hardly afford to send men to attack some monks that are so far outside his area of influence that it's not even funny.
Direct retaliation is extremly unlikely.
You are saying that this will hurt the monk's supernatural reputation, but why would locals in Nepal ever hear from a deal in Chicago going wrong?
My basic assumption is that these people usually don't go far away from their home and only had to take this extraordinary journey in order to retrieve some sacred object or such.
That also explains why they needed a Knight, because this is not their turf and they are not used to the local dangers.
So, taking that assumption that the monks are usually local operators, I don't think any consequence of breaking this deal could possibly hit them in their monastery in Nepal.
And Michael would know that and have no desire or obligation to reward a gangster for successfully getting his hands on something that doesn't belong to him and demanding money for it.
I think you are seriously overestimating how much nepalese monks should care about keeping a deal with Marcone.
Assuming they don't usually deal with criminals they have literally no touch-points.
They are in a monastery in the Himalaya and usually have no need for smuggled wares in America.
Marcone is in Chicago and can hardly afford to send men to attack some monks that are so far outside his area of influence that it's not even funny.
Direct retaliation is extremly unlikely.
You are saying that this will hurt the monk's supernatural reputation, but why would locals in Nepal ever hear from a deal in Chicago going wrong?
My basic assumption is that these people usually don't go far away from their home and only had to take this extraordinary journey in order to retrieve some sacred object or such.
That also explains why they needed a Knight, because this is not their turf and they are not used to the local dangers.
So, taking that assumption that the monks are usually local operators, I don't think any consequence of breaking this deal could possibly hit them in their monastery in Nepal.
And Michael would know that and have no desire or obligation to reward a gangster for successfully getting his hands on something that doesn't belong to him and demanding money for it.
Vote closed.
Given the (future) existence of our internal kingdom and its denizens (and I do hope we choose to have it be populated), those two (RPG and an empire builder) are not exactly separate. The Queen and the State are One in this case, and we'll need something to give protection to our subjects when they operate outside of our kingdom.
It's just a shame that infernals have only one bureaucratic charm, and that one is aimed at destroying stuff.
Marcone is both organized crime and involved in the magic community. In both communities, reputation matters. So does respect. Demonstrating there are consequences for messing with you deters other people from messing with you. Everybody adhers to this principle; Dresden does, the Archive does, the Red Court does, the White Council does, Mab does.
As for feasibility?
This is not the Middle Ages. Mortals and other supernaturals can take plane rides safely and quickly, unlike wizards.
The Himalayas have been a regular tourist destination for Westerners with disposable income since at least the 1980s; tourism employs 1 in 10 workers in Nepal and provides almost 4% of GDP. It averages a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars for a roundtrip from Chicago to Kathmandu today, and less than fifty dollars a day incountry.
And monasteries are fixed targets.
How difficult do you think it would be for a team from Chicago to show up in the area with instructions to perpetrate some arson and murder? Or even just to spend twenty thousand dollars hiring some locals to do the work?
Do you think the monks would consider the potential damage to relics or deaths of monks worth the cost to save money?
Or do you think Marcone is too soft to do it?
If Marcone chose to reach out and touch them, he could have people on the ground in three days, and it would be done in a couple weeks. He'd probably even be able to write off the travel expenses on his business taxes. And by most conventions, he'd be justified to do so due to clear provocation.
You dont go to Italy, scam the Mafia then think that running to Australia will save you from retribution.
The world is a lot smaller than it used to be.
Dresden gets away with pulling this shit because he's powerful, has protagonist privilege, and he's still had some close calls.
Just last week IC during the events of Proven Guilty, some of his enemies captured him and were auctioning him on Ebay; the bidding got above two million dollars before he managed to escape.
The monks are not Dresden.
I assume we can always port Solar charms over if we really need them.
But I dont really expect to.
The Unseelie Accords are basically an attempt to codify rules of international diplomacy and statecraft for supermatural nations, and to prevent unplanned escalation. You dont really need them to tell people that things like attacking the operatives of a major power is a Really Bad Idea.
If we have subjects from her inner Hell operating outside in peacetime for whatever reason, they are protected by Molly's general reputation and the threat of retribution; you start shit with them, and if they dont kill you, she rips your lungs out through your nose.
Much the same way Dresden's reputation for gratuitous overkill keeps a lot of chancers outside Chicago for much the same reason.
- Location
- Germany
I think that trying to attack a monastery of magic monks, without knowledge of the local spirit-world or regular underworld is a dangerous risk and Marcone is not the type to throw good money after bad one.
We don't know how dangerous the monks are on their home turf, we don't know what agreements they have with the local forces of man and supernatural being.
And neither does Marcone.
He might scout, he might look if there's a worthwhile way of inflicting retribution, but in many places of the world being a foreigner is still a hindrance for trying to pull of anything against locals. Doesn't matter that Marcone might be right on some level, he's not one of them and his word has little weight here. Would you take money to act against the local spiritual guides?
Whoever Marcone sends will have problems gathering information, problems getting weapons and if things are worse than he suspects they might get beaten up by Yeti.
So all in all I don't think he will take the risk to attack an unknown opponent on the other side of the world over a minor loss.
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While true, people, even strong people, sign the accords for a reason, and it's not only "Mab said so". They make the life easier and better for everyone. And while we will be smashing vampiric courts' and denarians' faces in, it's still useful to have international recognition.
I think its far more likely the sorceror, if he escapes somehow, is going to have a shitty ass time with Marcone.
You don't jump your trade partner because your exchange got hit by some third party's goons. You jump the goons' backer.
The monks behaved entirely respectably and in good faith for an exchange, in that they brought security, they brought the goods to be exchanged, and they didn't try to repo the traded items when they had a chance.
There is no obligation to protect Marcone's goons because they're the host. The deal is going on in their turf. The guest has no reason to get involved.
You don't jump your trade partner because your exchange got hit by some third party's goons. You jump the goons' backer.
The monks behaved entirely respectably and in good faith for an exchange, in that they brought security, they brought the goods to be exchanged, and they didn't try to repo the traded items when they had a chance.
There is no obligation to protect Marcone's goons because they're the host. The deal is going on in their turf. The guest has no reason to get involved.
- Location
- Germany
It can still be soaked.
Automatic damage means that GSNF does not create damage-dice that roll to see how much damage you do, it directly damages health-levels minus the soak.
Of course, only for people who can soak aggravated damage...
Some few effects specify unsoakable damage and that is not the case here.
Edit: Example from Unbound Eschaton Shintai:
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It does not say unsoakable damage (the way say denying the infernal domination charm once you are under it) so if you can soak that type of Agg you can roll the dice
1)In the short story Backup, Marcone shot a cantrev lord of the Fomor in the face and then paid the two hundred and fifty thousand dollar weregild in gold bullion after the dude invaded his offices when he gave Justine sanctuary. He also aids Mab in Skin Game to get revenge on Nicodemus subsequent to the events of Small Favor.
You are really underestimating how important respect and reputation are in both organized crime and magic, and how far Marcone is willing to go to get his due.
2)We can estimate how powerful the monks are based on how much power they can spare and how comfortable they are.
Players dont ask for Knights as guarantors in order to meet with organized crime figures, and Marcone doesnt send just two dudes to meet with significant figures.
3)Its a monastery. They dont walk around. Thats the drawback of being a public institution: people know precisely where to find you and your fixed assets. And given the relatively small numbers of wizards on the White Council, this monastery in Nepal isnt likely to have many mages either. Nor is there any indication that they are allied to yeti, or that yeti would intervene if they give provocation.
4)We have multiple series examples of ppl moving hit teams internationally.
Nicodemus brought his cultists into Chicago during Death Masks and Skin Game, and I think during Small Favor. Ortega brought a hit team to Chicago in Blood Rites. The Eebs came to Chicago in Changes.
If you can use the transport resources of modern society, moving people in and out of a nation is pretty straightforward.
Doesnt necessarily follow.
The Forest People aka Big Foot arent signatories to the Unseelie Accords, but they are a supernatural nation with members who are active internationally, with Blood on His Soul being strong enough and skilled enough that Nicodemus hired him for his heist in Skin Game and eventually gave him Ursiel's coin.
I dont think we'll end up on the Unseelie Accords for Doylist reasons.
If the quest lasted a couple hundred years IC sure. But during the timespan this is likely to cover, I doubt it.
The sorcerer is defintely fucked if Marcone's dudes make it back home with a face and description.
The monks have behaved respectably so far. If they left Marcone's men there they'd be blameless as long as they left the artifacts.
But if they want to complete their deal, they need the gang dudes along so they can pay them.
If they leave the artifacts, there's a good chsnce they end up in police lockup and vanish.
But walking away with the artifacts would be foul play that would call for retribution.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Thanks for the Clarification. I have one more, if you do not mind.
So it goes like this, Roll damage vs Roll Soak.
If damage wins, spend 1 Ess and apply damage above soak + highest of Strength, Charisma, or Intelligence levels of aggravated damage?
I am asking as it specifically says apply after you do damage, meaning soak was already rolled.
The handover was made. If his men failed to complete last mile delivery, its on them, or on the attacker.
Their obligations were complete the moment they handed the money over
You are doing more damage so they get more soak for that if you know they can soak nuclear hellfire.
Isnt it basically adding more damage to your attack?
So for example we do 6 agg base + extra succs, lets say 0 for this excercise.
they soak agg, so they roll 9 soak.
we use GSNF and add 4.
So since we do 10 and they soak 9, we'd do 1 agg?
Edit: Though...if its soaked seperately, they'd have to use two Perfects to negate it.
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It is two distinct sources of damage, one is 'I cut you with a sword' which is external and one is 'I curse you to have nuclear hellfire burst from your flesh.' A perfect would block the initial attack whose landing is the condition for the GSNF so you would never spend the essence and wait for the next attack you do land.
Winning Vote
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Makes sense.
This does mean we should never use it against anything that can soak Agg, as its not a lot of damage levels.
When stuff can soak agg, it'd probably have enough soak.
Edit: It also deals strength amount of damage...that's purely unmodified from stuff like Shintai, right?
On one hand its not your absolute base state, on the other Shintai IS also your form just a different one.
This does mean we should never use it against anything that can soak Agg, as its not a lot of damage levels.
When stuff can soak agg, it'd probably have enough soak.
Edit: It also deals strength amount of damage...that's purely unmodified from stuff like Shintai, right?
On one hand its not your absolute base state, on the other Shintai IS also your form just a different one.
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Arc 1 Post 14: A Light on Dark Trails
A Light on Dark Trails
9th of July 2006 A.D.
"I can still fight!" You try not to make any sudden movements with the declaration, not because the pain is that bad but because all the frozen blood matted to the front of your chest suddenly flaking off would probably undermine the point. From the odd stab of pain you are pretty sure there are bullets in there as well, but you should be fine as long as you don't take anymore hits. "I know you trust my driving dad, but I don't think I've graduated to getaway cars just yet."
In another first for the day you actually see your dad glare at one of the punch drunk thugs, presumably for being useless twice over, or maybe for putting you in danger by proxy, you are not sure and you are not about to ask.
The more lucid of the pair does end up in the passenger seat while the other is pushed into the back of the van alongside the monks and your prisoners as you race down the pier shouts and horns honks echoing in your wake. I really hope no one snaps a picture of the plates, you think as you draw your sword over your knees.
Thankfully the younger monks prove startlingly adept in using the zip-ties they find in there to tie up their former owners though Brother Divsimar looks wan and shaky, though you cannot see a mark on him.
Noticing your worried look he explains: "One only holds so much chi and it is not given to mortals to respire it from the world as the Wan Xian once did, given their fate it is perhaps for the best that we should be do limited."
The name rings a bell not faint, but loud and clear in your mind. The Ten Thousand Immortals gifted by Heaven with the power to respire chi, the lifeblood of the world that is matter energy and spirit that they might set right the paths of unsanctioned devils that plagued the world, grown arrogant in their dominion and rapacious in their power they began to take chi from life, most of all from the people they aught to have been guarding. Sweet on the lips and a black stain on the heart and how the devils laughed until the Ten Thousand became addicted to rapaciousness and from no other place could they take chi, immortal they were still but their flesh was cold and dead and their souls from Yomi Wan flew now back into the corpses, a scream on the night wind, a groaning in the earth. The Ten Thousand Demons.
"They became the Wuan Kuei, the demon people..." you trail off. Something about that story, that flash of insight, sends your stomach roiling unpleasantly and makes your throat choke up as if you are about to cry, but have no tears.
"Is that...?" the monk who had hit the raven thing with a plate starts to ask, but his master raises a hand for quiet. Given what you suspect he might have asked you are glad for it.
The van turns sharply sending some of your prisoners groaning in pain as they jostle against one another.
"Try to hold them still," you call, ignoring the wordless scoff from Usum. Just because they'll heal doesn't mean you want them to be in pain. Your eyes follow the duffel bag as Brother Divsimar draws it closer even with every sharp turn.
Maybe it's impolite to ask, but you figure all the blood you're wearing is worth at least one faux pas. "If you don't mind me asking what is that?"
"It is rare," the elder monk says, "For both that which was stolen and some of the thieves to return to us at the same time." He is quiet for a moment and you are afraid that might be all the answer you'll get. "These are the remains of some of our wisest and most revered, put to ill use by the wicked. When I was yet a young boy men came to our monastery from far off lands under a sign that was like onto the the auspicious footprints of the Buddha. Some would later say that we should have known them to be evil for they bore weapons of war too lightly and others would say their mark was red as blood and black as night, but this is all the false wisdom of hindsight. An honorable man might bear a weapon in a foreign land for his own protection and as for the color red..." he motions to his own sleeve. "These men said they were on the trail of their ancestors and they were much concerned with the color of eyes and hair, with the measuring of skulls..."
This time it isn't some obscure lore from who knows how long ago that flashes in your mind, but a snippet from a documentary you saw just a few years ago. "The Ahnenerbe... Nazis, those were Nazis and they stole bones from your tombs."
You look down at the old man and the goons and the words just pop unbidden on your lips. "I hate Illinois Nazis." You don't quite manage to bite back the giggle either. "Sorry, sorry, movie reference."
Apparently wise old monks or not the look older people give when they don't get a reference is truly universal.
"So.. uh... you got everything right?" you ask awkwardly.
"All that Marcone claimed to have come into the possession of is here, but much has been scattered," Brother Divsimar replies gravely. "Much has been lost and much has been scattered."
"Ah... listen I'm sorry for..."
The monk raises a hand again. "You are young, unless I am much mistaken a warrior new to battle and new to the rush of victory either. Your cause was just and your victory honorable, do not feel that the sorrows of the world mean you cannot enjoy them. There are enough of those abroad in the world without reaching to grasp them close."
Before you can reply the van screeches to a sudden stop next to the most unlikely of vehicles... an ice cream truck on an otherwise deserted street still on the north side.
The driver seems to know your dad. "I came as soon as you called, but it was crazy, no traffic all the way I was just gunning it and I got here just in time..."
Not so crazy, you think as you glance up at the sky with a quick prayer. 'Mysterious ways' apparently does not have to mean subtle. You change cars three more times as you zigzag across the city and between the last pair, a hearse and a moving van you find some water and one of those little hotel soaps to clean up a little. Now you just look beaten up rather than like Jason Voorhees's latest victim.
The bullets are now clinking at the bottom of your purse. Maybe you'll make something out of them, you think as the moving van drives up to an old warehouse.
"We should go see the boss," Jerry the goon had apparently recovered enough to start making something vaguely like demands. "You ain't paid for the package."
For the first time since t he fight started dad looks uncertain, almost pained. On the one hand he had agreed to see though the hand off of goods and money on the other he's not big on making people pay criminals for the bones of their fellows.
"Worry not friend Michael we will be true to our word..." Brother Divsimar looks the man up and down. "Wired, I do not think it would be safe for you to handle so physical currency when there are enemies abroad."
"That wasn't the deal," the man thrusts out his jaw belligerently, just asking for a punch in your opinion.
"I am altering the deal," the elder monk says serenely and you cannot help but add mentally this time. 'Pray I do not alter it further.' But... this is kind of serious, you realize.
Gangsters probably do not want their money to come with a paper trail and you do not think God will be inclined to facilitate the journey across town as smoothly as the last one had gone just to get John Marcone his preferred form of payment. You would offer to go yourself but you are... kind of wounded and if you just called Marcone's people here well it would compromise whatever this place is as a safehouse and it would give Marcone access to your prisoners. You van imagine how that would go...
They are Nazis though, another part of your brain argues. If anyone deserves cement shoes or whatever Marcone does to his enemies it's probably them.
What do you argue for?
(Charisma+Empathy all unless you lie in which case it is Manipulation+Subterfuge)
[] Send Jerry off with the cash, if he gets jumped that is on him
[] You can go with Marcone's people, you have probably lost all pursuit and there is no sense making an enemy if you don't have to
[] Call Marcone to pick up his money, you'll deal with him when he gets here
[] Write in
OOC: Normally there would be a stay silent option, but Molly's an Exalt, deferring to the opinions of others does not come naturally.
It would count Shintai but not other strength buffs