Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Really not happy with the idea of getting involved with details of goverment in this realm.

I don't want to make our Hell the Hell of Missing AP, where we have to spend several points every month.
 
I think we should take the time to explain to the ruling council just what we view as right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable, good or bad, etc., then leave them to make decisions in our absence, always keeping in mind 'WWMD?'.
 
I think we should take the time to explain to the ruling council just what we view as right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable, good or bad, etc., then leave them to make decisions in our absence, always keeping in mind 'WWMD?'.
Maybe later, we don't even have a good look at the policy's and customs of the negation yet, let's look around a bit before we go and tell people to love their neighbor.
 
This said, I read "Lord of the Rings" as I was, I think, eleven. I was raised in a very different culture from Tolkien and thus did not get a lot of references that are obvious to me now, and back then internet wasn't around to just get the necessary information, but it did nothing to lower my enjoyment of the book, it arguably added to it, making it this little bit more mysterious.

In fact, to add to that point, just think about the guy who made Dark souls, who explicitely based the storytelling used in these games on what happened to him when he had to read books in English... when he barely was able to understand English. The very fact that he had to compensate for the missing information and was able to create his own things actually made the reading more enjoyable at the end of the day, and influenced him enough to leave a very visible mark on his works.

OOC: Time to explain Life the Universe and Everything... also the fact that the Maker is a teenager.

Ok, let me just get that one out of my system:

42.

Now, let's look at the actual options.

Ok, do want to remind people that this is the first impression, and that we can very well explain that we can't and won't rule for them later, but are willing to intervene on some cases, discussing the issue created by our presence isn't in any way an obligation to *sink all our AP in ruling every facet of the world*.

Show we are competent, acknowledge they are too, and let them be unless there is an actual emergency, in that optic, I think Yog's vote works, it introduce the outside to explain why we can't always be there, but still shows we care:

[x] Yog
 
Just pointing out Molly can easily make the problem irreverent. Molly using Lord of the land to open the wastes. This will allow the FCFF to extract thousands of tons of material from the wastes.

And with that new influx of resources they can dig new wider tunnels, and line them with meter thick walls of solid iron. No need to worry about things messing with the tunnels when they cannot even get into the tunnels in the first place.
 
So why are people voting to get involved in a negotiation that doesn't really matter and which will become irrelevant with new advancements soon. This conversation is supposed to be about establishing our relationship with our council and informing them not getting caught up in things that they can already manage.
 
Just pointing out Molly can easily make the problem irreverent.

Ok, first: Irrelevant.

I doubt the problem will lack reverence towards us.

Second:
Just pointing out Molly can easily make the problem irreverent. Molly using Lord of the land to open the wastes. This will allow the FCFF to extract thousands of tons of material from the wastes.

And with that new influx of resources they can dig new wider tunnels, and line them with meter thick walls of solid iron. No need to worry about things messing with the tunnels when they cannot even get into the tunnels in the first place.

Open the waste, yes, of course, not like it would most likely destroy the whole ecosystem of our realm.

Also, the tunnels' size isn't the problem, the Spirits taxes is.
 
Also, the tunnels' size isn't the problem, the Spirits taxes is.
So in a few months the spririts will be unemployed. Again Molly basically allows the cites to extract functionality infinite resources from the wastes. They are fully cabable it building new tunnels that don't need any protection from them, that are both wider and faster to travel thou.

The wastes are bigger by percent then the oceans of earth. A small two hundred miles being opened at a time for mineral extraction won't effect its stability.
 
So in a few months the spririts will be unemployed. Again Molly basically allows the cites to extract functionality infinite resources from the wastes. They are fully cabable it building new tunnels that don't need any protection from them, that are both wider and faster to travel thou.

The wastes are bigger by percent then the oceans of earth. A small two hundred miles being opened at a time for mineral extraction won't effect its stability.
Yes because you should definitely fuck over spirits for corporations benefits. There is definitely no ethical problem at all.
 
Honestly the problem is that the city's never put any kind of time limit for renegotiating in their deal. I assume that is more standard practice now, having a time limit of a few centuries on any deal the cities make, but this deal was from the times of wooden wagons instead of metal bullet trains and the spirit dragons simply don't have the same view of time and don't see why deals should ever change if they are in their favor. We should be able to swing our Big Molly Energy around and make the dragons take a new and fair deal even if they grumble about it
 
Yes because you should definitely fuck over spirits for corporations benefits. There is definitely no ethical problem at all.
Letting monopolies run themselves as they see fit is so much better. We know sweet fuck all about situation, other than how it was presented. And two sides could be in the wrong or neither, so we either need to ask our crown what problem is or we really need to grasp context of the problem from our advisors and wyrms, not running half cocked with assumptions
 
We know very little about the situation and that's why we shouldn't get involved in it.

If we wanted to make a good and fair decision here we'd have to talk to everyone involved, the spirits, the transport-cooperations, the local politicians, etc. just to get a good grip on the situation and have a basis for good decisions.

Do you know what doing so sounds like to me?
AP-spending on things that the people in our Hell should be perfectly capable of solving by themselves.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 21, 2023 at 3:53 PM, finished with 67 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X] Reveal the world beyond the Courts, and the limited amount of time you can spend in the Courts, at a time, overall, and on this particular visit. Work out how to best utilize your time for the benefit of all, such as having prepared briefings for when you arrive. Explain your strengths, like personal leadership skills, Charisma, and ability to persuade people, and your weaknesses, like current inexperience with large scale politics and laws of the Courts.
    -[X] Offer to talk to the Underwyrms. They are also your subjects, and perhaps you could come to some compromise.
    [X] Reveal the world beyond the Courts, and the limited amount of time you can spend in the Courts, at a time, overall, and on this particular visit. Work out how to best utilize your time for the benefit of all, such as having prepared briefings for when you arrive. Explain your strengths, like personal leadership skills, Charisma, and ability to persuade people, and your weaknesses, like current inexperience with large scale politics and laws of the Courts.
    -[X] Offer to talk to the Underwyrms. Perhaps you can persuade them to be more reasonable? They are also your subjects.
    [x] - We cannot rule directly. By our nature we are forced to only spend a fraction of our time here. Matters of administration remains in their hands. Our role is a bridge between this world and the new creation. Our authority is on matters of state, of setting broad policy as we move in new directions. This council remains vital.
    - [x] Offer to help with the spirits, but be clear this is us helping a matter the council has asked for our intervention as a whole.
    [X] Reveal the world beyond the Courts, they have far more important things to advise you with, a new age is upon you all
 
Arc 8 Post 66: Fate and Faith
Fate and Faith

18th of November 2006 A.D.

OK, I can handle this, I just need to explain stuff about the outside world and then we can handle the underground dragon tolls. At least that had been the decidedly non imperial sounding thought when you turn on the projector for that apparent universal denominator of culture and technology, the slide show.

"There are worlds beyond this one and I was born to one of them, a water world, sapphire marble against the void of utter blackness vaster than the mind can grasp. I was born the daughter of a man and a woman as men and women find themselves in this world into a world where the Wheel does not turn and death comes for all at the end of what would be one turning. I was both a magician in a world where magic itself is hidden from the eyes of the populace least they lash out at that which they do not understand onto the ruin of all. I was born anew n a moment of despair in a place of cold and darkness as you see me now..."

Into the utter silence, between the soft light rays you motion down at your armoured form, then raise a hand to trace one of the twisting horns of your helm. As your fingers skim the tip of it a breath goes out, the only sound in the chamber, perhaps the only sound hat could be in this place and in this moment.

A little shorter, a lot lighter and a good bit more human looking your start to peace around the chamber, keeping your eyes on each of the five in turn. "I know how to talk to people, how to read them. Well I am talking to your right now aren't I?" The smile you give Ancient Luc, Arte's drone and Ekel is no chance thought thing. "Some would say that I should not speak so frankly, that I should keep the die under my hand. Well those people, they don't really know how to lead do they? Part of leading is knowing when to let go, who to trust."

You sweep the room from augmented spy to singing sensation holding her breath.

"I trust you all, not because I know you all utterly to the depths of your souls, but because I like all of you have faith."

"Hail to the Empress! Under the banners United we march!" Logistician of the Unstoppable Company calls out, loud and ringing into the still air, his upper hands held aloft, fingers splayed out in the five point symbol of unity

Which of the remaining four takes up the call next is something only Guardian of the Brazen Flower and his fellow Security SUTRAS could adjudicate and with tight margins indeed.

Doing your best not to hyperventilate at the scale of your success you start explaining... reality: demons and angels, fey ward and the watch on the walls of reality, vampires and wizards. On and on you talk until your voice is horse, pausing only so long as it takes you to gulp down some feather tree sap, the fact that someone had to tap a hundred foot tall fern like a maple to get the stuff only barely registering. You explain who Harry is and what 'wizard' means in detail, if perhaps not as much as the Exarch of Scrolls would prefer, you explain who your father is... by now they had been battered with so many revelations that this one only earned a gasp from Wati and finally you explain why you popped into your throne room with two unconscious friends.... seeking sanctuary.

"I was looking for a place to get my bearings, rest, regroup, I found more, so much more , but I cannot stay cannot linger forever soul coiled round and round itself. I can and I will return, but for now lets see about spending the time I do have here in the most efficient manner."

"I see you have learned the wisdom of thrift Divine Majesty, both with your time and with your words," Ekel replies. He has a dazzling bright smile in the light of his hologlyphic tattoos. Switching to his native Journey Cant he adds: "Let us push back the curtain of white."

Seeker speech is not the only local tongue you speak and so you understand the meaning of it, In the depths of antiquity, before the points of the pentagram had been mapped out, before the tunnels has been scouted and the cities united even in trade explorers set out from the City of Journeys to carve out a patch not just through the caves or even the jungles, but though the wastes whose touch is death even. And you understand too the deeper meaning: We will not balk, not even at the peril of death unasked for.

"So about that underwyrm trade dispute..." you begin but Sesil cuts you off.

"With all respect and reverence unceasing Majesty to the black pits of the Labyrinth with trade disputes, there is an entire world of potential allies and trade partners awaiting envoys..."

"And an entire world of foes awaiting slug and shock-sword," Ancient Luc finishes, with the thump of ancient steam pistons. So while you go off to speak to the people in more detail than your coronation allowed the Exarchate and their staff of sorcerers thaumaturges, spirit binders, engineseers, diplomats and anthropologists pour over the data you have given them that they may suggest a course of action.

How much of yourself to your reveal to the population at large?

[] All of it, it seems to have gone well so far

[] Don't mention being born mortal, in a way a part of you was not after all, that is what Usum is

[] Prepare people for the revelation of other worlds but be vague on the details

[] Write in


OOC: Surprise second update in a day, I used to churn these out a lot back in the day, maybe I can get back in the habit... starting on the 25th at least, I will be traveling again on the 24th.
 
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I really don't want to get into AP hell with our own hell.

But I don't want to do the job of ruling. We picked this hell because it is relatively low maintenance. We provide plenty of value just by being the bridge to the outside world.
Really not happy with the idea of getting involved with details of goverment in this realm.

I don't want to make our Hell the Hell of Missing AP, where we have to spend several points every month.
AP hell is always going to be a thing, regardless of what our options at the time are. It's a consequence of having lots of stuff we want to do and limited time to do it in.

We're not signing a blood oath to spend all our days doing paperwork, but our first statement to the ruling council shouldn't be to emphasize how we're incapable and uninterested in doing anything with them.

We can find a natural balance of what we're capable and willing to engage in without priming them to cut us out of influencing anything.

Beyond that, there is going to be at least some level of AP spent here. We bought a hell, not using it would be a waste.

Given who Molly is, and a basic desire not to end up like the Yozi, it seems like a bad idea to limit that to exploiting them as much as possible without requiring us to spend time around our new nation even if we don't pick a maximum engagement plan long term.

So why are people voting to get involved in a negotiation that doesn't really matter and which will become irrelevant with new advancements soon. This conversation is supposed to be about establishing our relationship with our council and informing them not getting caught up in things that they can already manage.
The negotiation itself doesn't matter, it's basically a prop for our conversation with them.

We're going to go in and tell them about the outside world, in the process explaining the limits on our ability to stay around and engaged with the FCF*.

Then we describe our skill set, which emphasizes personal leadership ability but is lacking in broader organizational abilities.

Popping over to negotiate with some spirits underlines the point and gives us a chance to show off a bit. It also shows respect for the mundane matters they were just going back and forth about in front of us by clearing the item we interrupted from their schedule, which is good politics on multiple levels.

We want them to know we value their jobs even if in the future we're not going to be doing stuff like this.

* The limit is our ceiling on engagement, but just by existing it gives us a grey zone to pick our actual activity level within that we don't really need to specify now.

We know very little about the situation and that's why we shouldn't get involved in it.

If we wanted to make a good and fair decision here we'd have to talk to everyone involved, the spirits, the transport-cooperations, the local politicians, etc. just to get a good grip on the situation and have a basis for good decisions.

Do you know what doing so sounds like to me?
AP-spending on things that the people in our Hell should be perfectly capable of solving by themselves.
I don't think it will be that complicated. This is basically leaning on the skillset that Harry just called us out on being good at; twisting people around to our point of view in a small group context.

We don't need to actually tie off the whole contract ourselves. The deadlock is being caused by the fact that the spirits don't want to negotiate in the first place, convincing them it's in their interests to make a new deal and setting some loose parameters for what it should be is enough to let the council kick this matter back down the chain to the relevant department. That's essentially done from a top level bureaucrat perspective.

As to how we convince the dragons to do that; it should be pretty simple:
The dragons don't want to lose out on profit, or potentially get screwed out of their current deal which at least meets their needs.

The cities don't sound averse to paying more for the volume, just paying at the current unsustainable rates in the current medium of exchange involved.

So prorate the toll based on traffic levels. The cities won't take a deal that isn't profitable, no new rate means little to no increase in traffic.

The dragons get paid their current rate and in the current medium for shipments up to the to date historical average in a given moon turn. Everything past that is paid for at a new rate and possibly with a new currency to be negotiated by someone who cares.

If the Exarchs were telling the truth then the cities would make a considerable profit since all the new traffic they're balking at the tolls for would be under the new rate, and the dragons have their previous deal as a floor to their profits. They'd be leaving money on the table not taking it.

The government is negotiating this, so I assume this is paid for by them rather than the individual caravans, probably using something like a gas tax or licensing fee from the traders.

If not they should switch over to something like that, because spreading the cost that way ensures the fee for any given person is less than it was historically rather than screwing the first few people through the tunnels.

The final negotiations and potential additions to the local department of transportation will probably be time consuming, but setting policy and selling the idea in principle should basically just take a few conversations.

Edit: never mind, apparently we didn't need it.
 
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[X] All of it, it seems to have gone well so far

For them to be efficient in supporting us, they need to have full and correct information. And they are committed, and we are rolling 10+ leadership and 15 PR successes with exarchs. They should be willing to kill and lie for us.

So, yeah, no reason not to, honestly.

Also, damn, I liked how they aren't stuck on the issues they had and open to new events unfolding. "to black labyrinths with the current dispute, we'll handle that, there are more pressing issues at hand now". I really like that. It shows them being flexible, adaptable and willing to put off personal profit. I am betting the underwyrm crisis will be handled in a fairly efficient and non-genocidal way now.

This is our homefront. We don't and shouldn't keep secrets from these people.
 
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While we seem to be leaving the Dragon discourse for now, I would also like to remind people that the spirits of our world are not like the mortals- the mortals are worshipful of us, but are still mortals with vast opinions and flexibility in will. The dragon spirits are, on the other hand, born of the world to fulfill a purpose, in this case protecting the leylines. Technically we are their boss in this matter, and if went up to them and told them their duties also now include protecting the trains they would have to suck it up out or no pay, not that we should do that. It would be like Sol Invictus popping down from Yu Shan to tell some mountain god to be a patron to the local village, they ain't gonna say no
 
[ ] something something put a bunch of clue about your true nature and origin all over your world and have people put it together themselves.
 
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