Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I like the idea of exoskeleton, but I'd want it to be focused on not reducing our agility over boosting our strength. I'm thinking 'Tech-ninja in very light power armour with superbike* and fire sword'

*has magical abilities like going fast without being noticed/invisibly, and maybe can also fly 'cuz that sounds cool.

[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)
It's not really the direction I'm hoping to go in, but if we did end up riding a motorcycle around, it wouldn't really need to be magical to do stupidly amazing shit. Even regular muggles can do crazy stuff on the right motorcycle, so an Exalt with superhuman stats and skills should be able to do even more. And as long as we don't care about driving the bikes to destruction, we could push them to the breaking point as needed.

This does, however, assume we're wealthy enough to replace them like disposable umbrellas.
 
A magic motorcycle would be a Wonder and at the top end of what a Solar with Craftsman Needs No Tools can expect to create without like, decades of labor and hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm going off page 55 in the crossover book here.

Edit: The Recommended Wonder scope is stuff like bulletproof jackets, guns with unlimited explosive bullets, etc.
We could probably cut down on that with access to magical resources and crafters, but getting that won't be exactly easy and probably limits us in terms of how far we can go(can't make something with inferior parts). And it means paying in favors and deals, which are likely to be harder to acquire than cash.
 
If we want a magical item generally it's far better to be rich and throw a dozen Dresden talents at enchanting it for us.
That's not really how items work in DF though. A crafting specialist is pretty rare to find among mortals wizards; to the point that the loss of one person stopped the council from arming wardens with their signature blades.

Most of them can do at least a little, but it's the sort of thing that requires maintenance. A vast majority of their kit is usually ritual tools anyway, so beyond some basic things they probably don't have anything like uniform experience.

Dresden is also pretty high up their for a mortal in terms of raw power. His youth and weird habits make him an outlier, but mortal money is highly unlikely to earn the attention of twelve of his peers.
 
That's not really how items work in DF though. A crafting specialist is pretty rare to find among mortals wizards; to the point that the loss of one person stopped the council from arming wardens with their signature blades.

Most of them can do at least a little, but it's the sort of thing that requires maintenance. A vast majority of their kit is usually ritual tools anyway, so beyond some basic things they probably don't have anything like uniform experience.

Dresden is also pretty high up their for a mortal in terms of raw power. His youth and weird habits make him an outlier, but mortal money is highly unlikely to earn the attention of twelve of his peers.
Svartalves that can craft high level magic are more numerous and they'll work for money or favors.
 
That's not really how items work in DF though. A crafting specialist is pretty rare to find among mortals wizards; to the point that the loss of one person stopped the council from arming wardens with their signature blades.

Most of them can do at least a little, but it's the sort of thing that requires maintenance. A vast majority of their kit is usually ritual tools anyway, so beyond some basic things they probably don't have anything like uniform experience.

Dresden is also pretty high up their for a mortal in terms of raw power. His youth and weird habits make him an outlier, but mortal money is highly unlikely to earn the attention of twelve of his peers.
Dresden knows something like 1-2 dozen minor talents in Chicago. That he watches, and does the wise elder bit to. Just use VED to boost them problem solved.
 
[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)
They work for a hell of a lot of money though
We wouldn't be hiring them until after we're rich, so at that point it wouldn't matter as much if they're expensive.

If we learn that wish granting Charm, we could probably trade uses of it for magical crafting.
 
[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)

Lasciel's outfit is very tempting, but it's more useful in the long run. Besides, can't a mechanical tool make us clothes? If we provide such a thing to our minion who is good at sewing, will it give him bonuses?
 
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[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)


[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)

Here me out, we go into mechanics. We make ourselves a motorcycle. We use that motorcycle to beat a monster to death. It will also leave green flames when we're really invested in things.
Sadly while a really cool idea our speed boosting charms explicitly apply when running. I did a quick search and sadly I couldn't find any charms that would boost our speed while driving.

Yog's idea of an exoskeleton would probably be compatible with the Infernal movement boosting charms though...
 
Dresden knows something like 1-2 dozen minor talents in Chicago. That he watches, and does the wise elder bit to. Just use VED to boost them problem solved.
The only minor talents be knows in the dozens are either hyper specialists like werewolves or can barely make someone's nose bleed with magic.

Even with VED it'd be complicated to set up and probably fairly limited.

You're presenting this as an alternative to making stuff ourselves, but I'm sort of skeptical. Getting a five dot charm, making demonic pacts with people who know just enough to be afraid of that sort of thing but not enough to be useful for what we want, then pioneering a new style of enchantment using a magic system we can't access anymore sounds more complicated and effort intensive than just making things ourselves.

[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)



Sadly while a really cool idea our speed boosting charms explicitly apply when running. I did a quick search and sadly I couldn't find any charms that would boost our speed while driving.

Yog's idea of an exoskeleton would probably be compatible with the Infernal movement boosting charms though...
Clearly the optimal solution is to use Molly to power a Flintstones car so she can drag people along with her at speed. :V
 
The only minor talents be knows in the dozens are either hyper specialists like werewolves or can barely make someone's nose bleed with magic.

Even with VED it'd be complicated to set up and probably fairly limited.

You're presenting this as an alternative to making stuff ourselves, but I'm sort of skeptical. Getting a five dot charm, making demonic pacts with people who know just enough to be afraid of that sort of thing but not enough to be useful for what we want, then pioneering a new style of enchantment using a magic system we can't access anymore sounds more complicated and effort intensive than just making things ourselves.


Clearly the optimal solution is to use Molly to power a Flintstones car so she can drag people along with her at speed. :V
Funny, but I can actually see it happening, if not for one thing, the wear and tear Molly would put on a machine in this situation is so great it would likely be destroyed before we reach our destination.

Best option for many of the problems mentioned? DP let us make homebrew charms.

For a vehicle for us I vote to just make a supermoto with all our effort (some vehicles made by mortals are bullshit already) and then put a spirit on it: tada! Our own super vehicle with automatic steering and who knows how to perfectly use any resource that we put in, being totally loyal and not letting itself be stolen.

Also I agree it's too much effort spent needlessly when we can do it alone.
 
I mean, if you want to trade money for magic items .... isn't the obvious starting point Dresden?

The dude who is hard up for cash and is actually great at crafting magic items, as well as a character who is friendly with us?
 
In terms of infrastructure while you will not be getting Exalted Manses ready made with mutant pops and trees with golden fruit that grow on little floating islands and such that is not to say you cannot do any kind of large scale magical infrastructure. If you really want to go that way. A lot of the crafting in the doc actually needs a Dragon's Nest for one and for even more stuff I will even plumb the dark depths of Mage books for inspiration.
Going to note:
-The late unlamented Baroness Bianca St Clair's mansion/estate, which suffered a bad case of Dresden burned down mysteriously with everyone inside four or five years ago during Grave Peril and had hundreds of dead vampire victims buried underneath it? Is probably still on the real estate market just because of its bad reputation, and is legitimately haunted because of all the dead.

I assume the Red Court vampire picked that location for a reason.


[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)
Here me out, we go into mechanics. We make ourselves a motorcycle. We use that motorcycle to beat a monster to death. It will also leave green flames when we're really invested in things.
I think a bike is probably well within her capabilities.
Just buy one used, or even more likely trashed post-vehicle accident, then break out the repair magic.
And once done, awaken the spirit inside it.

[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)
I want an exoskeleton. And probably a mecha. And the only thing stopping us from having an exoskeleton power armor is a power source, and we have demons for that.
Eh. Its within her capabilities to build it.
Its just unlikely to be necessary for herself, and I question the thematics.
For human or spirit allies maybe. Or even just as a home security system.

I like the idea of exoskeleton, but I'd want it to be focused on not reducing our agility over boosting our strength. I'm thinking 'Tech-ninja in very light power armour with superbike* and fire sword'
*has magical abilities like going fast without being noticed/invisibly, and maybe can also fly 'cuz that sounds cool.
[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)
Doubt power armor is necessary.
She's Strength 4, which is almost human maximum, in her normal state. Girl is not ogre strong, but she's probably sronger than her father. And if she breaks out shintai, she gets stronger.

Same for flight; there are two charms that can do it for her personally.

A bike would be for noncombat travel, and possibly for transporting other people.
If she's breaking out the sword, she's almost certainly on foot.
Or flying.
A magic motorcycle would be a Wonder and at the top end of what a Solar with Craftsman Needs No Tools can expect to create without like, decades of labor and hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm going off page 55 in the crossover book here.
Edit: The Recommended Wonder scope is stuff like bulletproof jackets, guns with unlimited explosive bullets, etc.
No it isnt, neither in scope of effect or scale of project.

Wonder Forging Genius benchmarks off things like rocket packs and plasma cannon. In ExWoD the Solar Medicine charm Wholeness Restoring Meditation is explictly capable of engineering transhuman traits into humans as an Int+Med roll against difficulty 9. The example that was used was flight.

A magic motorcycle is a pretty smallscale project when the benchmark projects are rocket packs, plasma guns and the like.
Years of labor and billions of dollars?
Thats stuff like helicarriers.


[X] Blacksmithing (includes weapons and armor as well as pre-industrial tools)
[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)


Two dots is the average base craft score for a professional right? So at three we should be good enough that we could try getting a cover job as a mechanic. Getting someone to give us a shot would be tricky, but exalted social competence should be enough to get a foot in the door.

I mean we're not planning to live in the Carpenters' basement forever, regardless of the current situation, and college would be a hell of a thing to juggle with all the other nonsense. Might as well simplify the whole thing instead of scrambling once we decide to go independent again.
It's not really the direction I'm hoping to go in, but if we did end up riding a motorcycle around, it wouldn't really need to be magical to do stupidly amazing shit. Even regular muggles can do crazy stuff on the right motorcycle, so an Exalt with superhuman stats and skills should be able to do even more. And as long as we don't care about driving the bikes to destruction, we could push them to the breaking point as needed.

This does, however, assume we're wealthy enough to replace them like disposable umbrellas.
Blessing of the Wood Dragon makes your mundane stuff self-repairing as long as it has not been destroyed altogether.

Go to a motorcycle junkyard in Chicago.
Buy a bunch of totaled and junked bikes for a couple hundred dollars.
Break out Tool Constructs and rebuild them to factory condition, then sell them back to a secondhand bike store.

Profit.


We could probably cut down on that with access to magical resources and crafters, but getting that won't be exactly easy and probably limits us in terms of how far we can go(can't make something with inferior parts). And it means paying in favors and deals, which are likely to be harder to acquire than cash.
Svartalves that can craft high level magic are more numerous and they'll work for money or favors.
They arent that numerous, their specialties arent that broad, and high level magic isnt available off the shelf.
What is known about the Svartalves is limited, but in the Dresdenverse they are picky about what they do, and who they work for
And you may not necessarily want to pay for their favors in kind, depending on how sexually liberal you are.
Svartalfar wiki said:
Spindly humanoids, about 5' high, weighing about 50 kilograms, with gray skin, and huge, bulbous, black eyes. While wearing their flesh masks, they resemble Ken dolls. Svartalves look like grey little aliens, although the females are a bit more human-looking, with attractive features and long silver hair; they wear a human disguise much the same way the Red Court Vampires do.

They are peerless artisans of the supernatural world, providing the Norse gods with weapons and armor. Their craftwares are sold out of a shop in Norway. They are very powerful and skilled in the Magical Art.

Svartalves are very private and independent and they absolutely do not tolerate any nonsense. The can also be prickly about their territory, take their honor very seriously, and are very old school; they are known to react very badly to anyone violating guest right. They are such fighters that they have few opponents, including Harry Dresden, willing to tackle them.

According to the Leanansidhe, Svartalves covet beauty the way dragons covet gold; they also accept sex as payment for favors, or compensation for transgressions. Thomas Raith is required to pleasure Svartalf females when he has been caught spying in their fortress, while Freya had to do the same with most if not all Svartalves to pay for the restitution of her necklace.

Waldo Butters describes them as being alien but looking human, since they're capable of wearing flesh masks. However, the lore surrounding them is very extensive and contradictory, and next to nothing is known for sure about their motivations.
The Winter Court is hardly short of resources or unwilling to spend to make an impression, but after he became Winter Knight, they thought it was a better deal to replace Dresden's old Beetle with a vintage Cadillac repaired by a human mechanic than to attempt to commission him some custom magic bullshit from the svartalfar.

There's a reason why giving Molly modern Craft specialties is a Big Deal for her; there's good odds thats the only way she'd otherwise be able to get her hands on anything partway modern in the short to mediumterm.
I mean, if you want to trade money for magic items .... isn't the obvious starting point Dresden?
The dude who is hard up for cash and is actually great at crafting magic items, as well as a character who is friendly with us?
1)He's not hardup for cash
2)He's got his own stuff to maintain.
 
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[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)

Lasciel's outfit is very tempting, but it's more useful in the long run. Besides, can't a mechanical tool make us clothes? If we provide such a thing to our minion who is good at sewing, will it give him bonuses?

That is not really how that works, the skill is transitive between you and your creations. So to make a machine that is good at leather working you need to be good at leather working. It is also harder to make that machine than it is to just do it yourself since you are just adding complexity.

Do keep in mind guys though that if you want you can also buy more specializations even in this more forgiving craft system, you can be a master at both mechanics and leather-working if you are willing to spend the XP.
 
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Eh. Its within her capabilities to build it.
Its just unlikely to be necessary for herself, and I question the thematics.
For human or spirit allies maybe. Or even just as a home security system.
Eh, I still want it. And thematically, if we lean into it, Girl Genius is the thematic one could go in. Clanks, Babbage engines (enhanced ones, obviously, think Discworld Hex), clockwork automata.

On the mundane level, making custom watches would be probably more profitable and have a far larger market than custom knives, I think.
 
1)He's not hardup for cash
2)He's got his own stuff to maintain.

This depends on your definition of 'hard up'. It's not as bad as it was in say Summer Knight when his first thought when a galamored Queen Mab came in his door and his first thought was of his bills, but compared to how wealthy he could be with the skills and powers he has Dresden is still quite poor. He did not take his job to get rich.

On the first point though it bears repeating, it is really hard to enchant things. Harry has three things on him enchanted: Shield-bracelet, blasting rod and duster. Of these the rod does not really have it's own magic, it just makes channeling fire easier, the duster is as simple of a magic armor can be, just take more of a beating, leaving the shield belt as the pinnacle of his personal enchanting

We see other stuff that is tied to his apartment like the magic cuffs he used on Susan so they could have sex without her ripping his throat out in the heat of the moment and Little Chicago but those are all tied in place. Harry is not Magic R Us.
 
For enchanted items, youre kinda forgetting the kinetics storing ring (which is so useful that he builds a dozen more of them later, and really a great invention kinda) and the Staff. And a few other odds and ends that are rarely seen. However, IIRC most of these were told either take a large amount of time and resources to make (IIRC were told a basting rod is weeks of Work, and a staff would be months) or are more shoddily done and need regular maintainance, essentially. And thats before it would be much more difficult to make stuff work for anyone else.
 
Eh, I still want it. And thematically, if we lean into it, Girl Genius is the thematic one could go in. Clanks, Babbage engines (enhanced ones, obviously, think Discworld Hex), clockwork automata.

On the mundane level, making custom watches would be probably more profitable and have a far larger market than custom knives, I think.
1)Eh. Not sold. We'll see I guess.

2)To my understanding, there is a much smaller market for expensive watches than there are for secondhand refurb bikes.
People regularly wreck their bikes, wear out parts, just want a tuneup or to add aftermarket parts. Regular stuff that keeps the industry in business. Expensive watches otoh dont need maintenance, and arent supposed to.

Especially since this is the early 2000s in-story, and smartphones are well on the way to turning expensive watches from functional items to fancy jewelry.

Doesnt really help Molly to find and restore a twenty thousand dollar watch that then sits on a shelf for six months before its sold.
Not if she can buy a wrecked midmarket bike for a hundred dollars, restore it and flip it for two to six thousand dollars in a week.
This is a game of volume, not artisanal oneoffs.

This depends on your definition of 'hard up'. It's not as bad as it was in say Summer Knight when his first thought when a galamored Queen Mab came in his door and his first thought was of his bills, but compared to how wealthy he could be with the skills and powers he has Dresden is still quite poor. He did not take his job to get rich.

On the first point though it bears repeating, it is really hard to enchant things. Harry has three things on him enchanted: Shield-bracelet, blasting rod and duster. Of these the rod does not really have it's own magic, it just makes channeling fire easier, the duster is as simple of a magic armor can be, just take more of a beating, leaving the shield belt as the pinnacle of his personal enchanting

We see other stuff that is tied to his apartment like the magic cuffs he used on Susan so they could have sex without her ripping his throat out in the heat of the moment and Little Chicago but those are all tied in place. Harry is not Magic R Us.
Fair.
Even Molly could probably make five or six figures right now by showing up at Marcone's, flashing her sword and offering to do security work or just take a retainer for fending off supernatural threat. Dude is paying for a Valkyrie on the payroll courtesy of Odin for personal security; Molly would be cheap by comparison.
 
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Vote closed, let's see what you get.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 23, 2022 at 1:46 AM, finished with 122 posts and 32 votes.
 
Well, our car will be very well maintained, and probably have some… unique, aftermarket additions.

By which I mean we're an Exalt with a Craft Excellency that specializes in mechanics and owns a car. That car is inevitably going to become the coolest car in all of Chicago, if not the world, in very short order.
 
[X] Blacksmithing (includes weapons and armor as well as pre-industrial tools)
[X] Mechanics (Includes auto repair and construction as well as large scale construction)


Two dots is the average base craft score for a professional right? So at three we should be good enough that we could try getting a cover job as a mechanic. Getting someone to give us a shot would be tricky, but exalted social competence should be enough to get a foot in the door.

I mean we're not planning to live in the Carpenters' basement forever, regardless of the current situation, and college would be a hell of a thing to juggle with all the other nonsense.

Might as well simplify the whole thing instead of scrambling once we decide to go independent again.
You are technically correct with 2 dots being average professional.

But you have to remember that most uses of Craft will roll either INT or DEX plus Craft.
So even with a single dot Craft we are still better than the average professional due to the 4 dice we get from being brilliant or graceful beyond most people.
 
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