Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Fivefold Court Curiosities
So I have really liked the Fivefold courts since I read Yog's V1 post, and have spent a long time woolgathering the concept and supplementary ideas. So this will be a post that serves as a collection of stream-of-thought rambles about ideas surrounding the fivefold courts, and I can only hope that some of them are interesting enough to integrate.
In the Fivefold Courts there are plenty of amazing and beautiful structures, but some are a cut above the rest, jewels of their respective city's. None as grand as the Soaring Palace of course, but lesser wonders are still wondrous
In the City of Swords, the single grandest structure would have to be the Arena of Newfound Glories (A blatant colosseum ripoff), a massive stadium with many publicly diplayed events, many which would be called bloodsports in a world were the reaper was not on vacation. Single duels are very rare due to the sheer size making such a thing seem wasteful, but team deathmatches between different recognizable teams are far more commonplace, alongside man vs beast matches, or occasionally an old master facing a large number of his students at once. Some of the largest spectacle matches however, are warstrider duels, sponsored by the wealthy in grand displays of giant metal warriors beating the hell out of each other.
The Arena itself has top-of-the-line viewing technology, but the real draw is the advanced rituals that allow the arena itself to be rapidly reconfigured into a number of different environments, from simulacrums of the different cities to approximations of any of the great forests, every livable environment can be emulated sufficiently for interesting combat.
The City of Scrolls has already had the Infinite Library mentioned, and DP already mentioned a specific academy which is probably a Harvard-expy, so Ill skip this for now.
The City of Fountains/Serenity, There is probably at least one Grand Theater, but above that I would put the Fractal Gallery, a beautiful structure seemingly made of crystal that houses most of the greatest art within all the cities, with six wings, the first five fits with a theme of a city, The Serenity wing being for the most pure expressions of art itself, the Journeys wing for pieces about or symbolic of the forests or wastes, the Secrets wing containing pieces related to history and the occult, the Battles wing containing pieces on the state of society as well as the most beautiful weapons, the Endings wing contains some of the most personal pieces about emotion, tragedy, and the self, and the final wing, the Fateful wing, containing naught but art of the Empress-to-be, some from their own mind, others from half-mad tocalli artists trying to capture a fragment of what they saw
Within the City of Endings nothing can stand to match the Grand Temple Of Her Coming, by far the largest temple of worship in the name of the Empress-To-Be, it takes some obvious inspiration from the Palace itself, except the entire structure is slanted facing the center of the realm, almost as if the building itself was bowing. At all times you can find services within, guidance for all your spiritual troubles and to be brought further on the path of the greater you that She would wish you to become.
The City of Journeys, some more negative might say, is the least interesting of the Cities. While there are certainly grand buildings, the Central Station, the Bountiful Bazaar, and a massive Central Overabundant Farm that provides most of the grown food the the five cities, the City of Journeys has ever been focused outward over inward, leading it to be the most cosmopolitan of the Cities, it is nearly a saying that you can find the best specialists of anything in their city, but the second best is over in journeys.
One thing that I never saw brought up was what was used as money. While in the 'modern day' of the five cities many transactions may be digital, they weren't always so and there are always reasons to have a more physical currency. That led to the question, what could possibly be used as a currency? You would want something extremely difficult to counterfeit.
So my first real Idea was the Scales of the Dragons. While both statues are 'indestructable', occasionally a large scale of one of them would seem to 'shed', falling loose with a massive impact. This never seemed to diminish the statues, and while the scales of the Iridescent dragon have yet to be found out how to be worked, the black dragons scales are relatively easy to shatter. These scales seem lacking in any significant power, and have found very little use in any arcane rituals, but the black stone carries a seemingly unique thaumic signature. A single grain in a coin of metal gives it a mystic sheen that has yet to be imitated, with five, twenty five, and 125 grain coins for larger purchases, alongside the far rarer black coins, equal to 625 grains. For Scale, you can think a single grain as about 50 cents USD for food price equivalencies.
I will admit this Idea stuck with me because the Ebon Dragon being the Source of Money/The Root of all Evil tickled my funny bone
The Wastes in an inhospitable enviroment to most of the population, and not a plesent place to live for the rest. That said, there are still some landmarks that are near enough to be known and recongnised to the citizens of the Five Cities, or at least the ones that look outwards at all
The Hungy Spire is a structure just two cycle walk to the east of the City of Scrolls, which makes many people have clear assumptions to its origins. a 6-7 story tall obelisk type structure, clearly hollow and with windows, yet it is definitely no safe harbor for travelers or grovel tribes. For this structure seems to be composed of Consumer Ice. How anyone has shaped such a structure is a mystery besides 'with magic', but if that was all it wouldn't be so foreboding. No, whoever had built such a thing made it far more dangerous with some manner of ritual, causing it to emit an aura that seems to consume all that comes close. From a distance it is subtle, but it gets stronger as you approach, and what few have studied it estimate that at the threshold of the structure it would be similar to being completely encased in a coffin of consumer ice, and perhaps even stronger should the structure be entered. Some say the creator is still within plotting, others say he just got eaten by his own structure and went into hiding afterwards
The Flashflame Canyon is well renowned as it is an absolutley massive trench 5 cycle walk north from the city of journeys. Being well known for being the end of many first time travelers into the wastes who just start at journeys and strait away, noone is quite sure what caused the massive tranch to form in the first place. It has its own mini ecosystem in the slightly higher temperatures deep in the cliffs, but the cliffs get their name from the passage of Link Worms, one of the few places you can see them from the surface, as they pass by their initial hear causes large angular flashes and surges of spherical gasses before being quickly consumed, causing a spectacle that can be seen even from the top of the ravine.
The Kinghut, being about 7 cycle walk South South-East of the City of fountains, is the remains of a truley gargantuan Wastehut. A sphere embeded into the ground about 9 stories tall, it was said to have nearly rolled over a Grovel tribe, before its chief stopped it with his bare hands before breaking it open. However it happened, now it is commenly used by the tribes as a neutral meeting ground, to make deals and trade between themselves.
So if any of the Gruvel waste tribes or forest tribes want to move on, they still have to visit the city of ending and participate in their rituals? Or do the Gruvel tribes have some tradition of throwing themselves of the edge of the world? and what happenes to them, Gruvel are the most likley to make that trip after all/
 
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[X] Ascend the Throne, he's right you can handle the rest of this later, but if people are waiting, if people are watching they should see a ruler, not a confused girl
 
[X] First thing's first, get Izzy and Alec to some kind of medical facility, you can deal with the rest of this later.
 
[X] Ascend the Throne, he's right you can handle the rest of this later, but if people are waiting, if people are watching they should see a ruler, not a confused girl
 
For all we know Seeker could have just ordered them to sleep and a pair of mortal teenagers can't stand against the will of a demigod in such matters.

I'd think someone as good at hurting people would also be good at not harming or hurting them any more than intended, otherwise humans would die to easily for his tastes.
 
You know dp said that their broad nature isn't as broad here how much did he say about power though? I just figured he meant since its sytemized as much here that their nature is somewhat different and there are less types. Not that A few thousand year old high talent magic user here can't do some equivalent feats? @DragonParadox can you weigh on this? Maybe its more like white wolf stuff or something?
 
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Among the most prolific fishers of the Sliverloade Vale the Fletevrapues is almost assuredly the result of magical tampering, its kinship to pitcher plants only in evidence in its taste for blood, but where the pitcher plant is content to let the prey come for it in its own time the Fletevrapues will actively hunt down creatures smaller then themselves to drain dry with their proboscis. Though blood is poor in nutrients compared to the flesh they leave to be devoured by others in the water or on the riverbank they are adapted to only feed on it and only when it is red. It is theorized that these beasts were crafted by a mad magician to steal the blood of invading soldiers and deliver it to its master for some grand curse against them. Though their master is long dead they have found their place on the river-side where they are often followed by dozens of mid-sized scavengers many of which will attack anything which seems to pose a threat to the Leaf Walker

So uh...when's Harry getting one of these as a pet? No not because we gave him one as a present, but because that's his luck.
 
[X] Ascend the Throne, he's right you can handle the rest of this later, but if people are waiting, if people are watching they should see a ruler, not a confused girl
 
The enemy is simultaneously strong enough to be an existential threat and weak enough to be ready to break is a propaganda descriptor, not a good debating position.

There are reasons I frequently disagree with Uju, and the frequency of similar arguments to that is one of them, his description of Winter as all powerful and Mab as perfect is the same.

There is negative reasons to think that Broken Seeker gave us our friends in a state where they need medical attention now, since it was explicitly part of the deal, and he wouldn't have survived that long if he wasn't able to at least do that little.

Furthermore, I want to remind people that Dragonparadox do take into accounts our reasonings for voting in updates at least a little, and we made quite clear that at least a significant part of those voting for ascending the throne wants to do it to facilitate giving medical attention to our friends by bypassing the security checks we would have if we don't.
 
You know dp said that their broad nature isn't as broad here how much did he say about power though? I just figured he meant since its sytemized as much here that their nature is somewhat different and there are less types. Not that A few thousand year old high talent magic user here can't do some equivalent feats? @DragonParadox can you weigh on this? Maybe its more like white wolf stuff or something?
Highest levels of Paths can have pretty bonkers effects. Potions of effective immortality (age one day for each year you live), shapeshifting into mystical beings like dragons (including mix-matching), taking objects out of dreams into real world, etc.
 
Highest levels of Paths can have pretty bonkers effects. Potions of effective immortality (age one day for each year you live), shapeshifting into mystical beings like dragons (including mix-matching), taking objects out of dreams into real world, etc.
we probably have a fair few people with beyond 5 dot affects. Like still rare but when EVERYONE is immortal there are gonna be a handfull of a few thousand year old alchemists, martial artists, shapeshifters, elemental manipulators, or even just administrators who go above and beyond. Still rare cause I assume most over a few thousand years old go to the city of endings to either do some kind of reincarnation or true ending.
 
There are reasons I frequently disagree with Uju, and the frequency of similar arguments to that is one of them, his description of Winter as all powerful and Mab as perfect is the same.

There is negative reasons to think that Broken Seeker gave us our friends in a state where they need medical attention now, since it was explicitly part of the deal, and he wouldn't have survived that long if he wasn't able to at least do that little.

Furthermore, I want to remind people that Dragonparadox do take into accounts our reasonings for voting in updates at least a little, and we made quite clear that at least a significant part of those voting for ascending the throne wants to do it to facilitate giving medical attention to our friends by bypassing the security checks we would have if we don't.
eh no uju doesn't even like winter he constantly disagrees with just trying to kill Mab he knows we could kill Mab (eventually) he thinks its a bad idea though. He's not even against making winter change just most want to do gunboat diplomacy.
 
The thing about Mab is that while she's presented as one of if not the biggest and baddest guardians of reality around, she's never actually delivered when it mattered.

She let her own Winter Lady get infected by Nemesis, proving herself an incompetent defender of reality. She actively antagonized Dresden while on Demonsreach, proving herself an idiot at diplomacy. She started shit with Ethniu, a superpower she could not compare to in the slightest, and went on to fight her with the same skill and foresight as a fucking caveman who only knows how to hit and not how to dodge.

While her crimes against humanity ensure that we will eventually replace her, her incompetence and idiocy and inability to fight smart on her power level despite picking fights with the few individuals stronger than her make her a hindrance to our more immediate goal of not letting the world burn down.

I mean, characters in the books and even Jim himself say she's a canny manipulator and cunning mastermind, which may even be true, but that doesn't exactly excuse her colossal blindspots that include "guarding against Outsiders", "keeping the peace with people stronger than her", and "knowing how to fight".

It's funny how much Jim talks her up as someone who never let's her balance sheet come out red when she came pretty close to getting turned into nothing but red on a balance sheet by Ethniu. Also, how apparently very few people would want to fight Mab, when we've seen that regardless of her power Mab fights stupidly and would probably lose to anyone on her general power level in a 1v1. She plots and plans and schemes for every minor advantage, but drop her in a cage match and she'll bruise your knuckles with her solar plexus.

Jim compares her (or Winter) to a nuclear nation and talks about how "you don't fight nuclear nations head on" and how "you have to do it through very unconventional means" when Ethniu comes in and just starts throwing hands left and right and nearly wipes out every nuclear nation in this extended metaphor, at the same time. I guess her hands count as unconventional? She gave Mab a dirty look with her Eye and Mab just clocked out, so maybe that's not head on?

But yeah in light of Battle Ground and its depiction of Mab I'm very much not inclined to thinking it's a bad idea to kill Mab.
 
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The thing about Mab is that while she's presented as one of if not the biggest and baddest around, she's never actually delivered when it mattered.

She let her own Winter Lady get infected by Nemesis, proving herself an incompetent defender of reality. She actively antagonized Dresden while on Demonsreach, proving herself an idiot at diplomacy. She started shit with Ethniu, a superpower she could not compare to in the slightest, and went on to fight her with the same skill and foresight as a fucking caveman who only knows how to hit and not how to dodge.

While her crimes against humanity ensure that we will eventually replace her, her incompetence and idiocy and inability to fight smart on her power level despite picking fights with the few individuals stronger than her make her a hindrance to our more immediate goal of not letting the world burn down.

I mean, characters in the books and even Jim himself say she's a canny manipulator and cunning mastermind, which may even be true, but that doesn't exactly excuse her colossal blindspots that include "not good at spotting Outsiders", "keeping her mouth shut around people stronger than her", and "knowing how to fight".

It's funny how much Jim talks her up as someone who never let's her balance sheet come out red when she came pretty close to getting turned into nothing but red on a balance sheet by Ethniu. Also, how apparently very few people would want to fight Mab, when we've seen that regardless of her power Mab fights stupidly and would probably lose to anyone on her general power level in a 1v1. Jim compares her (or just Winter) to a nuclear nation and talks about how "you don't fight nuclear nations head on" and how "you have to do it through very unconventional means" when Ethniu comes in and just starts throwing hands left and right and nearly wipes out every nuclear nation in this extended metaphor, at the same time. I guess her hands count as unconventional? She gave Mab a dirty look with her Mab and Mab just clocked out, so maybe that's not head on?

But yeah in light of Battle Ground and its depiction of Mab I'm very much not inclined to thinking it's a bad idea to kill Mab.
I mean for one its literally a bad idea as in world wide disasters happen if it does. For maeve being infected you seriously think anyone can protect against everything? Shes an active enemy of a force likely as old as the world and is only like 1500 years old. Do you seriously think ANYONE can protect against that absolutely? Also for not being able to spot it easily how would she? We have ocp powers how the fuck is it fair to compare? For incompetence we see her be competent all the fucking time and have plans that work out to her advantage such as skingames entire plot, changes, fuck the elimination of her niece when she was infected she set these things up. As for replacing her if its on a personal level fuck no I don't want her job, if its getting someone in her position NO ONE is more competent than her at it right now, if its getting someone nicer in her position we'd need to murder both her and maeve then replace them both quickly after with people both capable, competent, good at the role they have no time to acclimate too, and ensure there are no worldwide weather disaster because of it.
 
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Like, one of the largest issues with Mab is that even putting aside the massive army of Winter Fae that she commands, she's meant to be a Big Stick, a deterrent against the other supernatural faction deterrents like Titania and Drakul and the Elders of the Vampire Courts.

But she can't be that deterrent, because as we've seen she doesn't know how to fight on that level. She seems good at intimidating and beating up those weaker than her, and also good at plotting against those weaker than her...

But when it comes time to cash the check, her account bounces. Mab contributed nothing, personally, in the fight against Ethniu. Hell, I can't even tell if her plans were all that helpful, considering the main issue wasn't the Fomor armies that she had Molly gather troops to fight, but rather the fact that Ethniu was able and willing to take on all comers. That Mab knocked herself out of the fight rather than waited for Titania to save the day against the Eye does not speak well of her ability to plan fights out in advance.

I'm really not finding it hard to believe that you could grab a random Fae, power them up, and see if not better, than at least comparable results for what Mab's accomplished.

Shit, we've seen literally armies of Outsiders get raised behind the Gates that Winter is guarding, we've had Walkers muck around with such impunity they even compromised Mab's number two/three, how much worse can it get? If this is competent, I don't wanna see incompetent. But I doubt it; occam's razor, given what we've seen of Mab, it's far more likely people IC just swallowed her hype and in reality she's just an incompetent guardian who's been able to make up for her flaws with raw power to a point.
 
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Like, one of the largest issues with Mab is that even putting aside the massive army of Winter Fae that she commands, she's meant to be a Big Stick, a deterrent against the other supernatural faction deterrents like Titania and Drakul and the Elders of the Vampire Courts.

But she can't be that deterrent, because as we've seen she doesn't know how to fight on that level. She seems good at intimidating and beating up those weaker than her, and also good at plotting against those weaker than her...

But when it comes time to cash the check, her account bounces. Mab contributed nothing, personally, in the fight against Ethniu. Hell, I can't even tell if her plans were all that helpful, considering the main issue wasn't the Fomor armies that she had Molly gather troops to fight, but rather the fact that Ethniu was able and willing to take on all comers. That Mab knocked herself out of the fight rather than waited for Titania to save the day against the Eye does not speak well of her ability to plan fights out in advance.

I'm really not finding it hard to believe that you could grab a random Fae, power them up, and see if not better, than at least comparable results for what Mab's accomplished.

Shit, we've seen literally armies of Outsiders get raised behind the Gates that Winter is guarding, we've had Walkers muck around with such impunity they even compromised Mab's number two/three, how much worse can it get? If this is competent, I don't wanna see incompetent. But I doubt it; occam's razor, given what we've seen of Mab, it's far more likely people IC just swallowed her hype and in reality she's just an incompetent guardian whose been able to make up for her flaws with raw power to a point.
You realize their army size is limited in the real world, they can't be everywhere, and they are not all powerful? Heck we know there are things outsiders have that cannot be easily countered by anyone you asking someone to invent the wheel for something we don't have yet. This is like complaining criminals exist in the United States. You can't just promote a random fae thats not how the position works and most random fae aren't nicer than Mab much less more competent. Your fucking insane if you think you could just get anyone to do a better job.

Edit: If you wanna fix things grape look at negotiations, find things to fix problems, lets not go murderhobo thinking its gonna fix shit okay man?
 
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You realize their army size is limited in the real world, they can't be everywhere, and they are not all powerful? Heck we know there are things outsiders have that cannot be easily countered by anyone you asking someone to invent the wheel for something we don't have yet. This is like complaining criminals exist in the United States. You can't just promote a random fae thats not how the position works and most random fae aren't nicer than Mab much less more competent. Your fucking insane if you think you could just get anyone to do a better job.

1. I'm not talking about Winter's army not guarding against Outsider infiltrators, I'm talking about Mab doing her job and guarding against Outsider infiltrators. Which she's not.
2. It very much is how this works. The Mantles literally went to the closest person who fit the job description of "be a fae", which is why Sarissa from Winter still got the Summer Lady's Mantle when Maeve popped a cap in Lily's ass. Before that Lily got the Mantle after Aurora got boxed just 'cause she had the Summer Knight's Mantle. If Mab died next to Maeve, we know who's the next Queen.
3. As I have proven with my sources that I could 'just get anyone to do a better job' given how poor a job Mab's been doing, I'd like to hear your sources for why I'm 'fucking insane' to believe so.

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Mab is bad at her job of protecting reality. Mab is bad at her job of being a deterrent. Mab is a horrible, cruel, despicable individual.

Any one of these facts would be a good argument for her replacement. That all three are true speaks to the necessity for her if-not-immediate-than-quick-as-you-can replacement.

I'm not arguing currently that we should go find her and kill her ass. But if the opportunity comes up, it's only logical at this point. Don't seek it just yet, but if it happens it happens.
 
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1. I'm not talking about Winter's army not guarding against Outsider infiltrators, I'm talking about Mab doing her job and guarding against Outsider infiltrators. Which she's not.
2. It very much is how this works. The Mantles literally went to the closest person who fit the job description, which is why Sarissa from Winter still got the Summer Lady's Mantle when Maeve popped a cap in her ass. Before that Lily got the Mantle after Aurora got boxed just 'cause she had the Summer Knight's Mantle. If Mab died next to Maeve, we know who's the next Queen.
3. As I have proven with my sources that I could 'just get anyone to do a better job' given how poor a job Mab's been doing, I'd like to hear your sources for why I'm 'fucking insane' to believe so.
who in winter is more competent than her, second for number 2 we've not seen multiple mantles change in quick succession I imagine nothing good comes from it, for why your insane you've listed a handful of fuck ups. Many of which she could do nothing about how would Mab have ever prevented maeves infection? How the fuck do you think they just spot those things we are an ocp for the canon setting. Existence still exists with her as queen over a thousand years my dude that says something. Answer me how the fuck do you suppose they track all outsider stuff in the world? There is no solution that exists in the base setting, their army is limited in size in the real world, any mortal can call them into the world. There is no super surveillance system for this shit nor are there absolute protections not even Mab is safe as far as I know. Mab has orchestrated multiple scenarios to her advantage throughout the books. shes not incompetent shes facing insane threats. There is literally no one that can guarantee safety against outsider infiltrators point to me who the fuck can spot them everywhere or prevent their summoning?

Also as I said look for solutions outside of murder. Anyone we put in her position will have to adapt quickly or risk death of everything, we cannot do it in quick succession, and any one we put in their position we condemn them to what is basically a living hell of an existence. If you want to enact change force Mab into making promises its not like she can backout of promises made also find solutions to the problems she has. But, please for the love of god stop suggesting we murder someone that if we kill them we become a permanent enemy of the court and multiple members of the accords. Please.
 
Can she do that or is the Winter Mother doing it and everyone assuming that Mab is doing it?
I mean jim butcher has said she can do it in the books too. Winter mother is presumably even more bullshit. Also I mean even certain wizards can cause volcanoes to erupt mab is much higher magnitude than them. I don't know why this is actually asked.
 
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