Updated plan
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Catching up...
McCoy's wife is dead because people came after her because she was married to him. The Red Court and unknown accomplices directly attacked Mab's loved ones: her daughter Maeve and her handmaiden Lea, and most recently attacked Arctis Tor itself and slaughtered her bodyguard; Dresden et al saw their remains when they went to rescue Molly.
Mavra went after Murphy in order to get Dresden to go after the Kemmlerites.
Duchess Ariana Ortega attacked the great granddaughter of the Blackstaff McCoy despite knowing McCoy dropped a satellite on her husband when he attacked his grandson.
A rogue priest kidnapped either Alicia or Amanda Carpenter and strapped them into a bomb in order to get him to hand over Amoracchius and Fidelacchius.
Even right now in this AU, Molly is involved in this AU because Nemesis and its mortal accomplices went after the daughter of the Knight of the Cross who bears Amoracchius in order to fuck with both Dresden and the Carpenters.
These are all known heavy hitters in the series.
People fuck with their family anyway. Thats how the setting works unfortunately.
The unscrupulous will target your friends and family because its easier than attacking you directly.
And for the QM, putting loved ones at risk is an alternative to perpetually raising the stakes to put the PC at risk.
Just part of the game.
In the last six months, the vast majority of Molly's named friend circle have suffered bad fates.
Ken was killed by a fetch, Andrea Becton is catatonic, Nelson Lockhart is suffering from magic-induced psychosis, Rosie Marcella broke her collarbone and has a lingering derangement, and Sandra Marling turns out to be an enemy.
Izzy and Alec are the only two who are both friends and untouched.
Its not good for Molly's mental state for them to die or suffer injury because they were publicly associated with her.
Nor is it good for her to only have friends who are in The Life.
But if he fled home, you'd have to follow in order to try to get revenge.
Naagloshii are at their strongest on their home ground.
And I suspect that the lair of a millenia-old god-monster is not something you can simply walk into.
I mean, someone who has had centuries to lay in protections is not an easy target.
For another, a millenia-old god monster has had centuries to amass defenses around its home.
And for a third, there's no indication that naagloshii are have any supreme organization; everything we know appears to characterize them as opportunistic antisocial magic serial killers. So in an attempt to go after them as. a group, you'd force them to cooperate as a faction, making them collectively a bigger problem than they are individually as loners.
Shagnasty fought a Senior Council member once, but promptly fled once he took damage. They are supposed to be risk-averse, which is how they have survived millenia without getting shanked. Picking a fight with someone who killed a greater akuma of Kakuri is not a risk-averse strategy.
Im beginning to think we misinterpreted the answer to that Crown question.
Mab. The Queen of Air and Darkness herself.
Head of the premiere superpower of the setting, who is infamous for settling scores, and making examples of people who fuck with her and hers. Who currently still has a dude on a cross in her capital for the last five years for betraying her.
I dont think there's any hope of everyone taking the hint.
Just reducing the pool of fuck around and find out candidates.
According to Word of Butcher, there were roughly forty thousand Starborn globally born during whatever the circumstances are that makes people qualify to be Starborn thirty years ago.
A lot, if not most, are dead now, and most were not wizards or supernaturally-inclined people anyway.
But if Seeker had been shopping for a Starborn to eat, assuming that Merit can be transferred, he had a whole buffett to choose from in the last thirty plus years.
Thats not why he's here.
The moment Molly murdered the Will of Kakuri on its chosen, prepared battleground is the point where force majeure should have been called. Instead, it went to the trouble of kidnapping her mundane friends.
This feels personal.
Besides, this thing has been here since before Gorfels, which was July 9.
The manipulation and murder of Lt Greene makes it clear that he's been here since at least June, and Dresden's framing for Greene's death suggests that Dresden's death was not the plan.
It would have killed him in prison, or had one of its minions do it, once the FBI had stripped him of weapons and protections and put him in general population.
Dresden's home is warded and protected by Mouse in the Tellurian and by the Leanansidhe's garden in the NeverNever, but that only applies to his home. He goes to work every day as a PI; his office has no wards.
Literally nothing stopping Seeker making a phone appointment to ensure that he'd be at work, then storming in and painting the walls with his entrails. Ninety seconds and he's done. Harry's strong, but theres a reason Donald Morgan, second in command of the Wardens, ran from the last naagloshii that was hunting him.
Even simpler would have been murdering him when Daedalus arrested him.
Using the face of a cop or prison guard to enter the jail, hex the cameras and eat his face would have been easy.
Let me remind you of events in this series to date.
McCoy's wife is dead because people came after her because she was married to him. The Red Court and unknown accomplices directly attacked Mab's loved ones: her daughter Maeve and her handmaiden Lea, and most recently attacked Arctis Tor itself and slaughtered her bodyguard; Dresden et al saw their remains when they went to rescue Molly.
Mavra went after Murphy in order to get Dresden to go after the Kemmlerites.
Duchess Ariana Ortega attacked the great granddaughter of the Blackstaff McCoy despite knowing McCoy dropped a satellite on her husband when he attacked his grandson.
A rogue priest kidnapped either Alicia or Amanda Carpenter and strapped them into a bomb in order to get him to hand over Amoracchius and Fidelacchius.
Even right now in this AU, Molly is involved in this AU because Nemesis and its mortal accomplices went after the daughter of the Knight of the Cross who bears Amoracchius in order to fuck with both Dresden and the Carpenters.
These are all known heavy hitters in the series.
People fuck with their family anyway. Thats how the setting works unfortunately.
The unscrupulous will target your friends and family because its easier than attacking you directly.
And for the QM, putting loved ones at risk is an alternative to perpetually raising the stakes to put the PC at risk.
Just part of the game.
Im not.
In the last six months, the vast majority of Molly's named friend circle have suffered bad fates.
Ken was killed by a fetch, Andrea Becton is catatonic, Nelson Lockhart is suffering from magic-induced psychosis, Rosie Marcella broke her collarbone and has a lingering derangement, and Sandra Marling turns out to be an enemy.
Izzy and Alec are the only two who are both friends and untouched.
Its not good for Molly's mental state for them to die or suffer injury because they were publicly associated with her.
Nor is it good for her to only have friends who are in The Life.
There's nothing stopping Molly from retaliating against him, just like there's nothing stopping him grabbing fresh hostages.
But if he fled home, you'd have to follow in order to try to get revenge.
Naagloshii are at their strongest on their home ground.
And I suspect that the lair of a millenia-old god-monster is not something you can simply walk into.
I mean, someone who has had centuries to lay in protections is not an easy target.
For one thing, naagloshii are allegedly significantly stronger on their home ground than they are abroad.
For another, a millenia-old god monster has had centuries to amass defenses around its home.
And for a third, there's no indication that naagloshii are have any supreme organization; everything we know appears to characterize them as opportunistic antisocial magic serial killers. So in an attempt to go after them as. a group, you'd force them to cooperate as a faction, making them collectively a bigger problem than they are individually as loners.
^^^
Shagnasty fought a Senior Council member once, but promptly fled once he took damage. They are supposed to be risk-averse, which is how they have survived millenia without getting shanked. Picking a fight with someone who killed a greater akuma of Kakuri is not a risk-averse strategy.
Im beginning to think we misinterpreted the answer to that Crown question.
Its been less than six months since someone got the cojones to attack Mab's capital and kill her bodyguard..
Mab. The Queen of Air and Darkness herself.
Head of the premiere superpower of the setting, who is infamous for settling scores, and making examples of people who fuck with her and hers. Who currently still has a dude on a cross in her capital for the last five years for betraying her.
I dont think there's any hope of everyone taking the hint.
Just reducing the pool of fuck around and find out candidates.
^^^
Nah, its pretty far fetched.
According to Word of Butcher, there were roughly forty thousand Starborn globally born during whatever the circumstances are that makes people qualify to be Starborn thirty years ago.
A lot, if not most, are dead now, and most were not wizards or supernaturally-inclined people anyway.
But if Seeker had been shopping for a Starborn to eat, assuming that Merit can be transferred, he had a whole buffett to choose from in the last thirty plus years.
Thats not why he's here.
I dont buy it. A marker is not a suicide contract, and naagloshii are serious enough customers to be able to call off shit on their own cognizance. Shagnasty had no trouble running away when Listens to Wind put up a fight over Dresden and Morgan back at Demonreach during Turn Coat.
The moment Molly murdered the Will of Kakuri on its chosen, prepared battleground is the point where force majeure should have been called. Instead, it went to the trouble of kidnapping her mundane friends.
This feels personal.
Besides, this thing has been here since before Gorfels, which was July 9.
The manipulation and murder of Lt Greene makes it clear that he's been here since at least June, and Dresden's framing for Greene's death suggests that Dresden's death was not the plan.
It would have killed him in prison, or had one of its minions do it, once the FBI had stripped him of weapons and protections and put him in general population.
Essentially this.
Dresden's home is warded and protected by Mouse in the Tellurian and by the Leanansidhe's garden in the NeverNever, but that only applies to his home. He goes to work every day as a PI; his office has no wards.
Literally nothing stopping Seeker making a phone appointment to ensure that he'd be at work, then storming in and painting the walls with his entrails. Ninety seconds and he's done. Harry's strong, but theres a reason Donald Morgan, second in command of the Wardens, ran from the last naagloshii that was hunting him.
Even simpler would have been murdering him when Daedalus arrested him.
Using the face of a cop or prison guard to enter the jail, hex the cameras and eat his face would have been easy.
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Of course. Thats the point, she isn't invulnerable. Narratively interesting to see the mighty exalted get harmed by a w
Being much weaker then her.
Well, the last update says, assuming Broken Seeker isn't lying, that he kinda likes us in a "you remind me of myself a millenium ago" way, and might be shopping for becoming our mentor background.
- Location
- Germany
At least he doesn't seem to want us as his enemy, which he certainly would after killing Harry.
I guess if you are old and immortal you rather take some time to check out the options, before making a foe that will eventually try to hunt you down and kill you and might even succede.
I guess if you are old and immortal you rather take some time to check out the options, before making a foe that will eventually try to hunt you down and kill you and might even succede.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
More like he doesn't want us soul killing him right after he eats Dresden. That is what this whole negotiation is about.
That actually doesn't work as his motivation, because we haven't demonstrated the capability to kill immortals until long after he arrived into town.
Make no mistake, if he was on a straight "kill and eat" mission, he could have gotten Dresden in at most a day. Arrive to town, fake a client (or just wait until Dresden goes grocery shopping), murderstomp Dresden, f*ck off. The only chance Dresden would have would be to call the coin and hope a denarian warform is enough to get away from a naagloshii and his cult, and by all indications Broken Seeker should have no idea that Dresden has a coin.
The vibe Molly is getting from him, assuming he is being honest, is less 'like' and more 'what have you been doing with yourself and why are you pretending you are a flesh-bag?'. It's... (and Molly hesitates to even use this word in her own head about a cannibal who just suggested necrophilia as a solution)... being charitable.
Sure but with how their magic stealing works, most of them are usless. A Starborn trait that maxes out at light a candle level of power is just that. Only a full trained Starborn wizard level talent like Dresden is relent to empower itself.
Or it fucks around spending a year doing awful shit to prove we should don the black robes and go full sith.
A bad idea is a bad idea, if it doesn't solve our problems or actually address why anyone is doing what they are then it's unlikely to be accepted or do anything if it does.
Getting Broken Seeker to screw off for a year would give us space, but I see no reason that'd actually happen here.
Wait. Is Broken Seeker basically staging an intervention?
Anyway, the important part is that it doesn't do this because it's afraid of us, at least not only or primarily because it's afraid of us. So, Empathy excellency, instead of Intimidation excellency.
Ok, let's see
[X] Ask more questions about his deal, try to see how sincere he is
-[X] Empathy excellency, ATB with willpower
-[X] Binding agreements can be a bitch, you can sympathize with that. Would it help if you murdered all his employers, their families, allies, and cute little pets? You and a lot of others (allude to but don't mention Denarians and Winter) need Dresden alive, and intact without interruptions to those states.
-[X] How long does he have until he really needs Dresden dead?
-[X] Reiterate that the moment real harm comes to your friends, all deals are off and you'll be finding and killing Broken Seeker. Unhealthy habits for an immortal monstrosity of a bygone age or not, these are your mortals, and you put work into them.
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Keep in mind you have not probed this thing with charms because charms cost resources so you might want to throw in say ATB in there.
Thanks for advice. Added ATB with willpower.
Betraying your given word is a bad idea; even with Skinwalkers it's basically a problem that follows you forever.
If we want to play that game we need exactingly specific terms so we can rules lawyer a valid stab point.
If we can trust this guy's word I'd almost prefer taking the deal as it stands and then killing him in transit when he tries to go home.
That or making a point of digging up his deepest secrets and selling them on the open market to farm a combination of revenge and revenue until something finally serves him a fate worse than death for us.
My ideal would be to kill the guy and send his silver dipped skull back to whoever sent him, but at the timescale of immortals screwing him real hard over the the next year until he dies in destitution is also a valid example to make.
It's probably one we want to make with someone eventually, because it demonstrates an ability to attack back in an are other than pure violence.
A word given under duress means nothing. This is important. We are not negotiating with someone in good faith, and we never could the moment he took our friends hostage. We can, and should, break whatever word we give him the moment it's to our advantage, and it shouldn't matter to anyone who matters. In fact, making a point that the moment you try hostage tactics you can' negotiate with us, but if you approach us fairly, we'll be very serious about keeping our word, should be our policy.
COMMENTARY
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This entire conversation is a flaming farrago of falsehoods.
Dude hasnt had to tell convincing falsehoods in a long time, and it shows; Molly's going to be feeling offended just based on her history of having to lie to her mother.
How convenient that his claimed contract mandates that HE has to consume Dresden.
Not kill him, or deliver his body, or his head, or something similar to the person who wanted him dead. Just go out and consume the wizard, and grow stronger. We'll take your word.
No bad guy pays a hitman, or calls in a marker and mandates that the hitman empower himself with the victim; they prioritize confirming the target's death.
Thats one lie.
===
The idea that we are supposed to believe that he is willing to finesse whoever hired him is preposterous.
And that whoever the fuck has the leverage to make him keep a deal like this is going to accept him finessing the deal and go "Ah, my bad, you got me there".
Thats another lie.
===
The claims of kinship are a third lie.
We've talked to Mab. We've talked to Odin. We've spoken to Gard. None of them said there's another Exalt or something similar running around, and Odin would probably have said something if there was. Gard didnt recognize us, and she would have recognized a naagloshii.
Also.
Kinfolk dont open their first communications with "Sup bro. I kidnapped your friends and will kill them if you dont do what I say. xoxo"
===
And this:
Is him trying to convince us that he knows stuff about the source of our power and how it works.
When the Archangel Uriel's message via our father has been pretty clear that there are no strings attached to our power besides what we put there.
Thats another lie.
===
The only thing thats true in this entire conversation is this:
He wants Molly, Lydia and Dresden in one location.
He either apparently doesnt know Lydia is out of the city, in which case I would ask what the fuck he's been doing with all his skinwalkers and any bound spirits that he couldnt spare one to keep an eye on her estate.
Or he does know that they are, but doesnt think he has the capability to hit one of his targets without alerting the other two and making them impossible to reach. So he's looking to talk us into walking into the lion's mouth.
If he wanted Harry alone?
He'd have just kidnapped Murphy and called Harry to meet him alone; they are known to be longtime associates, and he has the mojo to literally walk into her office and walk out with her under a veil.
Or he'd have had a patsy call him on a contract and ambush him outside Chicago; Dresden takes cases outside the city fairly regularly, and a couple thousand dollar deposit buys service.
Hmm.
Without Honor wasnt used in our Intimidation roll; should have been 18 dice, not 16 dice.
Not that it appears to matter; we arent rolling very well on the offence.
They are not.
An elder Lunar that is millenia old would be a terrifying god-monster like something out of Kill Six Billion Demons. It would make a naagloshii look like an underfed stray. It would walk in and leisurely eat Dresden in front of us and we'd be able to do fuckall about it. And a setting with a single E5 Lunar would look nothing like this, let alone a whole bunch of them.
Besides, Seeker is using a Mind/Spirit social rote from Mage The Ascension.
Not a Charm.
See above. Flaming farrago of falsehoods. And they arent particularly believable falsehoods at that.
You dont bring at least 15 lesser skinwalkers to Chicago(now 13, given that Hank and Bob have been removed from the equation), then eat two elephants at the local zoo around three or four weeks ago in order to kidnap or kill a single junior White Council wizard.
And Im not counting any bound spirit allies that he might have access to.
All this prep was to jump Molly and Lydia.
A note here, when you asked the Crown what his plan was they involved killing and eating Dresden. That part at least is confirmed. As to why he did not kill and eat him already well it might be pride talking, but Molly suspects she is a not inconsiderable factor in that, in that she would run him down and kill him.
No, this kinda makes sense, depending on how naagloshii consumptions works. If it is spirit soul / essence consumption, then Broken Seeker consuming Dresden does two things:
1) It prevents Dresden from becoming a ghost / denies access to his spirit to others
2) It preserves some properties of Dresden, like his starborn ability, in a naagloshii, which his employers might want to use later.
Given that it seems to need / want to stick to the letter of the contract, this seems very fae. In fact, what do we know (assuming it's telling the truth)? It could have rejected the task, but once taken it has to carry it out, if only in technical kind of sense. That says magic oath / geas / whatever.
I will be charitable here. He's not lying. He's being mistaken. And it makes sense, because exaltations are pretty damn unique.
That is not true.
Starborn status explicitly has nothing to do with wizardry.
Drakul claims to be a Starborn, something supported by Mavra, and he sure as shit isnt a wizard.
Involved. But not only.
Fair enough.
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Its mid-November.
Universities have been back in session for months now, and its still almost a week before Thanksgiving, so college students should be in school. There are 11 named members of the Alphas werewolf group.
Where are they? Because its time Harry needs to use his Backgrounds.
Odds are good they are doing their patrolling at this hour.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
How are the Alphas supposed to help? Unless they also get to use the were-wolf rage mechanics.
Alphas would be slaughtered. They are not garou-statted. If you want reinforcements in the next hour, either call ghouls, call Lara and rent some whampires from her, or call Odin.
Thats not how it works though.
They eat your power as you die, not your soul. Its not the only such entity that does this shit; the Nightmare attacked Dresden in Grave Peril and ate a lot of his magic; it didnt kill him. And Dresden returned the favor at the end of the book.
Furthermore, there's evidence Starborn ability isnt transferrable; Listen the Fomor servitor is Starborn, and explicitly irreplaceable in Ethniu's plans because of it. Else a Fomor sorcerer would have tried to kill him and take it.
Naagloshii dont have employers. They trade favors. To quote Word of Jim:
I think its safe to assume that what held true for Shagnasty holds true for Seeker.
Actually, my original statement in this thread has been wildly misinterpreted.
Shagnasty and his ilk (I love that word) don't minion for anyone, is what I said, at least not since they stopped minioning for the Holy People.
Now they /do/ trade favors. That can look a lot like minioning, but something like Shagnasty has no use whatsoever for paltry things like money or physical goods or slaves or magical gadgets or tech or human influence. That stuff, it would regard as insulting if it was offered.
The real currency is /favors/. And it had a mission while it was onstage in Turncoat. But honesty, just hurting the people who were trying to protect and aid Morgan was more than enough motivation for it to be there.
See, the flipside to the major currency being favors is that there is also an enormous trade in /grudges/. And something like the naagloshii doesn't just carry a grudge. It cherishes it, feeds it before it cares for its own progeny, and breeds it with other grudges to produce newer, stronger, more deeply malicious grudglings.
Yes, Shaggy was there at the behest of someone else. But mostly Shaggy was there because it was an awesome way to torment more-than-merely-mortals who couldn't just smack his ass down like the folks back at home.It didn't flee LtW because it was afraid it would lose. It fled because it couldn't easily /win/. That's an important distinction.
Most predators tend to take the sure thing whenever they possibly can. Why gamble on taking a beating when you have infinite time to come back later and kill someone properly, with lots and lots of foreplay?
Its not Fae.
Also, see above.
I wouldnt be.
There's no verifiable truth that it has uttered in that entire conversation, and it has tried to kill every minion that might be able to tell us about it and its activities.
If it says the sky is blue, seek a second opinion.
Starborn would only apply to the power stolen from a starborn thou. Even if it ate a dozen starborn, it would only be able to punch as hard as the strongest one of them, if it wanted to use the trait. Power source matters explicitly to these guys. If the strongest starborn it ever ate could only magically light a candle, that all it could do with the trait, anything more would have to be sourced from, another power it ate somewhere else, and the trait would no longer apply. So eating Dresden, an actual magical powerhouse is a big deal if it has dealings with outsiders.
Naagloshii do eat abilities though. Whether they can eat Starborn ability (and whether Broken Seeker or the ones hiring him think he can eat said ability) is a separate question that we don't know the answer to.
Based on the wording and circumstances, it's very, very clear that this is a magical contract of some kind, where the letter of the agreement matters, but not the spirit.
We don't know, and I wouldn't exclude them.
The truths he said:
1) He wants / plans to kill and eat Dresden.
2) We are a dream of elder days thinking ourselves mortal (adjacent). Not in a way Broken Seeker means, but this interpretation is almost certainly valid for what information he has access to.