Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Deportment and Dealings of the White Court
Deportment and Dealings of the White Court

Those Usum calls the pari are old, ancient in fact such that their origin has been lost to the turning of the Wheel that grinds history to legend and legend to myth. Man has ever feared the dark, the things that skittered and shuffled beyond the light of the flame, yet among the myriad of horrors that hunted the primeval nights some were lesser and some were greater, some were proud and some were cunning. It was one such lesser thing, a spirit-hunger that first bound its fate to a mortal who walked to light's edge and beyond. House Raith claims it was Aeneas of storied legend when Rome was in ascendant and that in their veins flows the blood of Venus though they do not harken back to Aphrodite Cytherea, but rather from swan winged Turan, whose name still echoes in the English language as tyrant.

Others tell their own tales, the Skavis claim to have ridden down out of the steppes with the Scythians long before Greek or roman set timid foot upon upon the lands untamed, children of Alvasty, the Red Mother all who drove horses and men to ruin, whereas the Malvora claim they were born of the union of Lilith and the Devil Himself, a brood to bedevil mankind

Though vampires of the White Court dwelt in all lands and hunted all peoples it is in Rome and her daughter cities that they became the White Court. Far from the superstitions of the countryside, beneath the notice of warring Hermetics they plied emperors, senators, pontiffs and generals with beauty and grace even as they took their sustenance from the teeming masses of the city grown fat from the plunder of empire. It was there that those who would become House Raith wold learn their most important lesson: There was power in beauty not just of flesh, but marble, there was might unmatched in the poet's pen in shaping the desires of man. They became patrons of the arts, great lovers of culture, to hear them tell it many of the greatest works of the Classical World would never have existed but for them the Aeneid, a true accounting, or true as could be set to words of wars long lost to mortal memory, so claim the elders of the House. If only Virgil's muse had been more careful of his health.

The Middle Ages were not kind to the living vampires of the Old World, asceticism, mortification of the flesh. the withering of cities and the rise of a new White Council concerned with driving back the night and all its denizens might have been the end of all of them, but the ong gulf was bridged, in Florence, in Milan, in Genoa and to the nostalgia of those few elders who endured even in Rome they found heir footing again, but this time the scions of Venus would not wager their fate upon a single crown, not even that of Augustus. Missionaries were dispatched, not of faith but knowledge hard won: how to hide from the eyes of the hunter and make the pray love the sting of your bite. As far east as India they went, some may even have wandered into the Middle Kingdom, though of those the courts in Rome and Constantinople did not hear back. But Where they did hear of the envoys it was with rich profits, new disciplines to manipulate stolen life, new philosophies, new ways of waging war upon their foes.

In this time the families grew and grew again as they travelled and spread to new lands. Old ways to dealing with wicked spirits and witch-folk were little good when the dark ones had learned to wear another skin and grasp the heart in ways unseen. And yet those wise elders who sent out the heralds of the new age sowed the seeds of their personal destruction, they could not adapt to the world that was being born around them day by day. So they fel at the hands of Church Hunters, wizards, the strigoi... at least what is what official histories say. Strange how the survivors of the pre-Fall days are all those vampires who had no interest in playing politics, no inclination to rock the boat.

The present White King is thought to be something of an exception, having been born as the last embers of the Punic Wars guttered out and risen to prominence the chaos of the Fourth Century. 'I lived though the end of the world, so will you boy,' these words he would say to Thomas whenever he would fail to live up to some standard, which he tells you proudly, was often.

Finally the age of mass media, from the printing press to the internet has been a time of almost unimaginable plenty to the White Court as it became easier than ever to leverage the enthralment of one one into directing the gaze and the passions of the many. Yet it has not been all victories for the scions of House Raith, rarely has a blow more profound been dealt to their interests than by Jane Austin in her insistence that true love not only could be found, but should be found. Oh how they tried to quarantine the idea to the nobility, the well-to-do, but as nobility crumbled to little more than a quaint kind of celebrity the notion flourished and took root, making use of those same cultural dispersion mechanisms from silver screen to radio show to television. The lesson a young vampire should take from this, at least according to Isabela is that a strong wind can blow the clods where it wills, but he who tries to hold them in his fist will only hold a fistful of mist.

One storm well steered was against the unliving horrors of the Black Court which had long been not only competitors, but also hunters of the White Court where their territories overlapped.

OOC: So... this turned into a history lesson. Hope you guys enjoy anyway.
 
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Okay, so the White Court already has a bit of a tradition of getting their too-active elders killed, by wizards, humans or other available means.

That's good, that allows our actions to be seen as more business than usual, until it is too late.
 
Not true. Pretty sure you need to obtain a gun license first.
Not for longarms. You need to go through a FLL and pass a background check, but that's not a problem for a girl with a clean record. Pistols may pose more of a problem, but not if you are willing to travel.

And the background check would be easy enough to block even if we had a dirty record. If the federal government does not respond in three days the check defaults to clean to sell. All we need to do is cyberdevil the FLL gun store and block the check from actually submitting.

But we can literally make an inhumanly well made gun in an afternoon. Why would we spend money buying guns? Why would we touch a gun from a criminal?
 
If the federal government does not respond in three days the check defaults to clean to sell.

Who the fuck is the moron who made that law? You don't make thing fail deadly, for fuck's sake, the answer should be a failsafe, *you don't get an answer, you default to no* is not that difficult a concept to save lives by not giving guns to the first idiot that gets lucky. No wonder the country has a gun problem.
 
Who the fuck is the moron who made that law? You don't make thing fail deadly, for fuck's sake, the answer should be a failsafe, *you don't get an answer, you default to no* is not that difficult a concept to save lives by not giving guns to the first idiot that gets lucky. No wonder the country has a gun problem.
Basically the America constitution has "right to own firearms" as a fundamental right, or at least thats how its read. So the legalese defaults that it needs to be proven that someone may not have one, rather than needing proof its allowed. And since there are opinions, right or wrong, about government bureaucracy in many places, it comes down to it being allowed if nothing is found soon, or some such.
 
Basically the America constitution has "right to own firearms" as a fundamental right, or at least thats how its read. So the legalese defaults that it needs to be proven that someone may not have one, rather than needing proof its allowed. And since there are opinions, right or wrong, about government bureaucracy in many places, it comes down to it being allowed if nothing is found soon, or some such.
People had concerns, right or wrong, that someone could sabotage the background check system to prevent gun sales period. All it would take would be to underfund the department to strangle gun sales to death.

Instead we get the opposite, where the department is strangled to kill background checks being a useful thing.
 
Who the fuck is the moron who made that law? You don't make thing fail deadly, for fuck's sake, the answer should be a failsafe, *you don't get an answer, you default to no* is not that difficult a concept to save lives by not giving guns to the first idiot that gets lucky. No wonder the country has a gun problem.
You think that's fun?

Federal licensing laws (largely) only apply if the seller wants certain federal certifications. In 20+ states there aren't really strong rules about private stuff.

I live in one of those states; I could drive to a gun show or a private seller and be back with an AR-15 with all the fixings before the next story post. I mean that literally, I pass the exact sort of boutique place that does this on my commute to work.

Even outside of that the barrier at a gun show is mostly "does some guy in the parking lot like the look of you". At most you have to wait for a weekend event.

Illinois specifically has stricter laws than that, but it's only allowed to enforce many of them on formal residents. So legally speaking if you aren't one you can drive in with whatever guns are legal for you at home and open carry.
 
Do this basically 👇


Since we can do all of those things pretty much.

We would need a few charms, but establishing that in our own territory at least should be useful.
And draw the greedy hand of the LoC who would very much like to establish special departments capable of the same country wide.

Given most methods of training armies quickly leave the targets able to train new recruits slowly the district would be reassigned to be examined and the methods pulled apart to make special forces and secret agents and check for subversion.

The existing city police are not a good healthy well functioning police force even by the standards of america, I'd hate to see what a federal force with them as trainers and veterans looks like.

Making a bunch of least land gods and taking over the police precinct would look pretty similar to fortifying them or involve making one as a template and breeding them. I don't trust the LoC with either a method to breed them or make bespoke gods even if a bunch of justice temple dogs would be a force for good the LoC would undoubtedly experiment on a few to destruction. I'd sooner vote to make a colony of feral justice cats then equip the police.

[X] Plan Cheek and Candle
 
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Who the fuck is the moron who made that law? You don't make thing fail deadly, for fuck's sake, the answer should be a failsafe, *you don't get an answer, you default to no* is not that difficult a concept to save lives by not giving guns to the first idiot that gets lucky. No wonder the country has a gun problem.
It sounds to me like the very intelligent and foresighted person who made that law was familiar with bureaucratic stalling tactics, and put in a pre-emptive rule to curb abuse: *can't deny by stalling*. This is not a very difficult concept either.
 
Deportment and Dealings of the White Court
COMMENTARY
Interesting that different strains of Whites claim descent from different spirits. All spirits associated in some way with sex, fertility and motherhood.Might still be false puffery of course, but it implies parallel evolution acrosss Eurasia
And suggests the existence of minor Houses/strains, either now or in the past.

Also noticed is the fact that none of them came out of Africa.
Which says interesting things about the magical ecology of Africa and its competitiveness if no vampire strain ever emerged or took root there.

Single objection:
Lord Raith is explicitly at least two thousand years old in canon.
Fourth century AD would put him significantly younger than Word of Butcher.

Gonna note that its canon that Lara spent time in Tokugawa Japan.
So they should know pretty well what happened to the migrants who went to the Far East. They might not want to talk about it, but they should be aware. And it probably explains some of their wariness of the Jade Court.
The Middle Ages were not kind to the living vampires of the Old World, asceticism, mortification of the flesh. the withering of cities and the rise of a new White Council concerned with driving back the night and all its denizens might have been the end of all of them,
Yeah, not really.

In an age when supposedly celibate Church clergy had harems of concubines, the privileges of nobility on their estates/fiefs were largely absolute and serfdom was still a thing in large areas of Europe, White Court vampires would have fed with impunity.
Same with those parts of the New World where chattel slavery was rife.

Obviously someone has been editing their histories.
Which is of a pattern with the fact that they appear to have killed off all their really old elders in internal power struggles.
I wonder if diablerie is a thing for Whamps.
 
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COMMENTARY
Interesting that different strains of Whites claim descent from different spirits. All spirits associated in some way with sex, fertility and motherhood.Might still be false puffery of course, but it implies parallel evolution acrosss Eurasia
And suggests the existence of minor Houses/strains, either now or in the past.

Also noticed is the fact that none of them came out of Africa.
Which says interesting things about the magical ecology of Africa and its competitiveness if no vampire strain ever emerged or took root there.

Single objection:
Lord Raith is explicitly at least two thousand years old in canon.
Fourth century AD would put him significantly younger than Word of Butcher.

Hmm... yeah I can work in an older Lord Raith that is not integral to anything in the background, only that he lived though the fall of the Western Roman empire and came to power son after.
 
Oh and to be clear the above does have quite a bit of IC bias to it, if the early church was just better at finding and dealing with vampires the vampires are not going to say 'well played' they are going to think of some way to paint them as unpleasant/brutish/ self destructive or the like. Molly does not think that the fact that the first post Roman explosion of vampires coincides with the period that gave us the concept of 'Dark Ages' is a coincidence
 
Not true. Pretty sure you need to obtain a gun license first.
In Illnois you need a FOID card to buy a firearm.

In Wisconsin, in Indiana, both neighboring states? You dont. At 18 you can walk into a gunstore, get your background check and leave with your weapon. And if you're buying from a private seller or at a gunshow, you dont even need a background check or any record of sale to show you bought a weapon.

Its a known issue that people simply drive over the border, buy guns and return to Illnois/Chicago.
It sounds to me like the very intelligent and foresighted person who made that law was familiar with bureaucratic stalling tactics, and put in a pre-emptive rule to curb abuse: *can't deny by stalling*. This is not a very difficult concept either.
^^^
Its worth remembering that Jim Crow wasnt that long ago in US history.
There are people alive who lived through it, and local politicians and strongmen who think with nostalgia to an era when they could do what they wanted.

While gun violence is the problem today, getting lynched or burned out of your home by the KKK, or a local strongman's posse of bullyboys was a very real possibility in the countryside if you were a minority or unpopular.

There are actual good reasons why you dont want to give the local power structure the ability to determine who has the right to own firearms. See the recent case in Ohio where the local chief of police and a couple local politicians were discussing having a journalist murdered and buried in the backcountry. And bemoaning that they couldnt lynch people any more.

EDIT
I mean, Californian gun control was specifically begun by Reagan when he was Cali governor, and was a racist reaction to organized black people like the New Black Panthers getting their hands on legal firearms and open-carrying them legally.
So the politics wasnt always what it is today
Hmm... yeah I can work in an older Lord Raith that is not integral to anything in the background, only that he lived though the fall of the Western Roman empire and came to power son after.
I think that works better.
Especially with the insinuation that he's lived long enough to kill significant numbers of his descendants, including all of the males besides Thomas.


Have we ever even seen a black eldar vampire? As in the skin color not the court.
Nope.
Not that I know of.
 
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You think that's fun?
Federal licensing laws (largely) only apply if the seller wants certain federal certifications. In 20+ states there aren't really strong rules about private stuff.

I live in one of those states; I could drive to a gun show or a private seller and be back with an AR-15 with all the fixings before the next story post. I mean that literally, I pass the exact sort of boutique place that does this on my commute to work.

Even outside of that the barrier at a gun show is mostly "does some guy in the parking lot like the look of you". At most you have to wait for a weekend event.

Illinois specifically has stricter laws than that, but it's only allowed to enforce many of them on formal residents. So legally speaking if you aren't one you can drive in with whatever guns are legal for you at home and open carry.
Yeah.
IIRC even the Carpenters have longarms at home; I think Charity had one in the panic room during Proven Guilty. And Michael used to be military. The older Carpenter kids have probably gotten the firearm safety talk at some point or the other, even if they've never actually been trained.
 
Oh and to be clear the above does have quite a bit of IC bias to it, if the early church was just better at finding and dealing with vampires the vampires are not going to say 'well played' they are going to think of some way to paint them as unpleasant/brutish/ self destructive or the like. Molly does not think that the fact that the first post Roman explosion of vampires coincides with the period that gave us the concept of 'Dark Ages' is a coincidence
Also convenient to scapegoat the church for losses due to internal political struggles.
Or even for losses due to being on the wrong side of a supernatural clash; after all, in those days there were a lot more supernaturals around on this side of the Gauntlet, from gods to minor spirits, and at least 1 more Dragon .

Probably less harmful to the White Court ego to claim being swarmed by large numbers of humans who prevailed by weight of numbers than getting bodied by equal or lesser numbers of supernaturals.

It certainly wasnt the wizards leading purges; wizard numbers scale to human population size, and back before 1000 AD there were fewer than half a billion people worldwide, with a proportionately smaller number in Europe. If anything I would suspect that a mortal witchunt would be a favored method for Whampires to harass a wizard or a bunch of talents.
 
It certainly wasnt the wizards leading purges; wizard numbers scale to human population size, and back before 1000 AD there were fewer than half a billion people worldwide, with a proportionately smaller number in Europe. If anything I would suspect that a mortal witchunt would be a favored method for Whampires to harass a wizard or a bunch of talents.

I believe we're told that one of the advantages wizards had before the invention of aircraft is that they're very much more capable of travelling through the Nevernever, so they could coordinate globally and concentrate force in a way impossible for all the other factions.

That means that the European vampires don't just need to face European wizards, the White Council can temporarily concentrate the global population of wizards against a local problem or rival before moving onto the next.
 
I believe we're told that one of the advantages wizards had before the invention of aircraft is that they're very much more capable of travelling through the Nevernever, so they could coordinate globally and concentrate force in a way impossible for all the other factions.

That means that the European vampires don't just need to face European wizards, the White Council can temporarily concentrate the global population of wizards against a local problem or rival before moving onto the next.
Yes, they could.
But many of them generally didnt want to. Remember, disease was a very real issue during the time period, and not one that magic generally had any advantagè against. Not to mention there were a lot more other supernaturals about during that time period relative to humans. You had to consider if risking vulnerability was worth the price.

As a White Court vampire, you really had to fuck around quite a bit to earn a major wizard intervention.
Or to be picked out from the general background of human fuckery.
 
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Yes, they could.
But many of them generally didnt want to. Remember, disease was a very real issue during the time period, and not one that magic generally had any advantagè against. Not to mention there were a lot more other supernaturals about during that time period relative to humans. You had to consider if risking vulnerability was worth the price.

As a White Court vampire, you really had to fuck around quite a bit to earn a major wizard intervention.
Or to be picked out from the general background of human fuckery.
It's worth noting that the effort a wizard had to go to in order to screw with you has also gone up in the modern era.

Higher end supernaturals aren't as effected, but for all their advantages whamps are still in the category that benefits significantly from mortal technologies.

Just getting quality steel or whatever was often a pain to manage, depending on the exact time/location, and whamps have 0% protection under the laws.

One pissed wizard who wants to cast themselves some violent rituals from hundreds of miles away, throw around weird curses, or any number of stupid bullshit games is a major problem under those conditions. It's not like they just learned how to do that stuff in the modern era after all.

They weren't guaranteed to win, but one guy with Harry's attitude could have been enough to be a major disaster if you don't have a good elder around who's power set is good for whatever dealing with this particular wizard specializes in.

One that's willing to risk eating a death curse over whatever the disagreement is.
 
Also communities where smaller, and much more tight nit back then. You not going to get away with a random killing here or their, when everybody knows everybody at least in passing.
 
Also communities where smaller, and much more tight nit back then. You not going to get away with a random killing here or their, when everybody knows everybody at least in passing.
Whamps acted most likely just as the kindred of VtM. Fight over the cities and unless you are an overpowered elder avoid the countryside on account of druidic mages, garou, etc. hanging out there. You need your mortal minions as protection against that.
 
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It's worth noting that the effort a wizard had to go to in order to screw with you has also gone up in the modern era.
Higher end supernaturals aren't as effected, but for all their advantages whamps are still in the category that benefits significantly from mortal technologies.

Just getting quality steel or whatever was often a pain to manage, depending on the exact time/location, and whamps have 0% protection under the laws.

One pissed wizard who wants to cast themselves some violent rituals from hundreds of miles away, throw around weird curses, or any number of stupid bullshit games is a major problem under those conditions. It's not like they just learned how to do that stuff in the modern era after all.

They weren't guaranteed to win, but one guy with Harry's attitude could have been enough to be a major disaster if you don't have a good elder around who's power set is good for whatever dealing with this particular wizard specializes in.
One that's willing to risk eating a death curse over whatever the disagreement is.
Its not actually gone up. Its just that you can compensate more easily against nonlethal attack.
That said, yes, Whampires benefit the most from human advancements of all the vamp courts.

Thats the difference between the courts.
Black Court vampires are best modelled as predators preying on animal herds.
The Red Court as herders/hunter-gatherers, and White Court as parasites.
Also communities where smaller, and much more tight nit back then. You not going to get away with a random killing here or their, when everybody knows everybody at least in passing.
This I disagree with.

Take a look at estimated child and maternal mortality rates in the pre-modern era even among the rich and titled, and the vast numbers of people who never made it to adulthood. People died from little things, big things, and no reason at all.
It was par for the course for someone apparently healthy to go to sleep and not wake up. Or drop after a "brief" illness.

Cities in particular were notorious for being mortality sinks before the modern era; literally more people died in medieval cities than were born there, and it required steady immigration from the countryside to keep numbers up.

Whamps acted most likely just as the kindred of VtM. Fight over the cities and unless you are an overpowered elder avoid the countryside on account of druidic mages, garou, etc. hanging out there. You need your mortal minions as protection against that.
Cities tended to be where a good chunk of the wizards hung out; the trope of the court wizard came from somewhere.
It just happened that the countryside was often a lot more dangerous back then.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Jun 27, 2023 at 9:05 PM, finished with 81 posts and 11 votes.

  • [X] Plan Cheek and Candle
    -[X] BLM, TLF if possible, Empathy excellency
    -[X] Preparatory intel gathering
    --[X] Have Clippy run down their identities, and see if other Ants of God can be identified through their social media connections
    --[X] Use their clothes as foci to learn what they were told by their White Court masters, and who was it that deceived them
    -[X] Call dad and father Forthil to help
    --[X] Brief them fully on the prisoners using the gathered information
    -[X] Use BSM to lower the difficulty, ATB with willpower to read them
    -[X] Reveal that they have been lied to and used, try to get through to them (Charisma+Empathy)
    -[X] [Stunt]: In the cold and dark of the Undertown space Molly meets the gaze of her bound and gagged prisoners. With a hint of heat in her voice, she begins to speak "I have to say, I'm upset with you both."
    —[X] " I'm upset about the situation, about the monsters turn ignorance against innocence, and even myself".
    -[X] Turning to the man she had held still for Thomas her eyes do not soften, but an acknowledgment flickers in them. "To you at least I owe an apology. I did what I thought was necessary, would do so again if I had to, but that was no small harm and I wish I could have been cleaner."
    —[X] Resetting herself, Molly continues. "It's a little rich coming from me, but I think we've both built up a sinister image of each other." With a silent signal Molly has Clippy request Micheal and Forthill enter the room.
    —[X] "But where I'm tempted towards dismissal the words of wise men echo in my mind. 'He uncovers the deeps out of darkness and brings deep darkness to light'. I'm hoping that the Lord might show us both what light we missed in each other's shadows" Reaching forward, she takes out the gags.
    —[X] Proceed with explanation of how they were tricked with backing from Micheal and Forthill.
    [X] Terrify them into compliance (Charisma+Intimidation)
    -[X] Stunt: Standing before the bound and kneeling captives, your burning sword held loosely in one hand, you stare deeply into their eyes for several long, uncomfortable seconds. The terror in their gazes is obvious, even before you speak. "Gentleman, you meddle in affairs beyond your understanding. Worse yet, you are wasting my time!" Now it is not only terror you see in those eyes, but shame as well, as the unmistakable odor of urine taints the air. "I'm going to give you each one opportunity to speak to me privately, out of earshot of your fellow conspirator, and you had better pray your stories match and that I believe them to be truthful."
    [X] Reveal that they have been lied to and used, try to get through to them (Charisma+Empathy)
    [X] Focus on securing the rest of the Order
    -[X] Leave the captives in Undertown with the next run down there, interrogate later
    [X] Reveal that they have been lied to and used, try to get through to them (Charisma+Empathy)
    -[X] Preparatory intel gathering
    --[X] Have Clippy run down their identities, and see if other Ants of God can be identified through their social media connections
    --[X] Use their clothes as foci to learn what they were told by their White Court masters, and who was it that deceived them
    -[X] Call dad and father Forthil to help
    --[X] Brief them fully on the prisoners using the gathered information
    -[X] Use BSM to lower the difficulty, ATB with willpower to read them
    -[X] STUNT: "Be not afraid, *names obtained through data mining*" you say, as you enter the makeshift cell that the prisoners are kept under watch, lest they do harm - to others or themselves. Behind you father Forthil enters, in his habit, bible in hand, and behind him, the Knight of the Cross walks, the Sword of Love on his hip, and every inch a paladin of the Christ. As guards leave, closing the door behind them, you speak again: "You have been deceived and led astray, bewitched by those that would prey on humanity. Do not despair, for we are here, and we can help. "
 
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