Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Extremly unlikely.

We are working with Michael, which is a pretty strong hint that we are not a threat to all creation.
At least not immediatly.

And we are meeting Mab, rather than avoid her like the plague.
As I mentioned before, Venatori think Fae count as forgotten ones. They're not the most informed. Probably because they're lead by the Archive, who's used to being the most informed on any subject, but no one commits information about Outsiders to paper for obvious reasons, and she deletes her own memories of foes she considers defeated so she can't learn from them.

Result, the Archive is a lot more ignorant than you'd expect for someone so associated with knowledge. At least, on the things that actually matter.
If they were Outsider linked, Mab would have never let them be a thing in the first place.
Pretty sure Black Court are Outsider-linked even in canon, at least I remember people posting WoGs to that effect.
 
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Keeping in mind that this is implication and not information... what makes you guys think all Outsiders are one thing or of one kinship? Yes they all seem bent on tearing down creation and they have all for one reason or another been cast out or kept out, but outside is a location not a political affiliation, much less a metaphysical genus.
 
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Even if we don't do anything else in my vote, please, please use the crown to check who the Outsider-connected people are in Lara's circle. We have an abundance of foci, and this is important. @DragonParadox how large is the filmography of Lara Romani and do separate videos count as separate foci?
I dont think its relevant to this particular meeting.
Especially given that we dont know what Outsiders are yet. I would not assume that whoever Nemesis is working for is the same set of entities that the Archive has been prosecuting the Oblivion War against, even if they are both categorized as Outsiders.

Think vampires.
And how there are three major Courts, all with their own dealies, and several minor sorts.
We need more information before we start burning foci by blasting the Crown at everything.

Pretty sure Black Court are Outsider-linked even in canon, at least I remember people posting WoGs to that effect.
If you can recall where you saw this, I'd appreciate a citation.
Because in this AU, they are linked to Neverborn.

In canon, all we know is that they are linked to/descended from Drakul.
 
I dont think its relevant to this particular meeting.
Especially given that we dont know what Outsiders are yet. I would not assume that whoever Nemesis is working for is the same set of entities that the Archive has been prosecuting the Oblivion War against, even if they are both categorized as Outsiders.

Think vampires.
And how there are three major Courts, all with their own dealies, and several minor sorts.
We need more information before we start burning foci by blasting the Crown at everything.
We know that Outsiders are a thing - we killed three (I think) of them personally already. We have a feeling of what Forgotten Ones are. It's best to learn who Lara is pursuing. It gives us a big advantage.
 
If you can recall where you saw this, I'd appreciate a citation.
Because in this AU, they are linked to Neverborn.

In canon, all we know is that they are linked to/descended from Drakul.
I think it had something to do with how, unlike Reds and Whites, there's no choice associated with becoming a Black Court, ie a violation of the normal "Free Will" parts of the setting.
Jim Butcher AMA said:
Black Court Vamps are a different story. They're actually tainted by something hideous and unworldly. They are driven to kill to survive. They don't really have a lot of choice about it. They enjoy being what they are, and doing what they do. They can be sad that they don't have someone who loves them, or upset that the world has passed them by and has changed on them, but at the end of the day, they're basically black-hearts who occasionally pull out a few of the tattered remains of their humanity, fail to fit back into them like they used to, and get maudlin about their glory days when they could watch the sun rise.
Also Lash apparently said so in White Night. Or at least Harry says she did, she didn't actually do so "on screen" which leaves some people thinking it was a typo, and he meant Black Council. Allegedly Jim confirmed it wasn't a typo, but I wasn't able to find that WoG.
 
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We know that Outsiders are a thing - we killed three (I think) of them personally already. We have a feeling of what Forgotten Ones are. It's best to learn who Lara is pursuing. It gives us a big advantage.
We know Outsiders are a thing. We dont know anything more than that.
Are they all a single faction, or different factions? Do they ALL want to destroy the world?

Do the cultists worshipping the Sleeper in the Pacific have any common cause with the posthuman Stygian Sisterhood or the sorcerers using Walker rituals for entropy curses or the Reds summoning lesser Outsiders as combat servitors?
What of Nemesis and the rest of the Walkers? Or the armies attacking the Outer Gates? How do they play into this?

The Crown is one tool; it gives us information, but that information often needs context.



If we have all the answers why are we going to the meeting?
This is a situation where my inclination is to talk to Lara, THEN use the Crown to fill in any gaps/questions we may have that aren't settled. Not to burn foci beforehand on every detail.

Its not like foci or Essence is unlimited. And not to mention that for Molly, secrets are Essence regeneration.
I think it had something to do with how, unlike Reds and Whites, there's no choice associated with becoming a Black Court, ie a violation of the normal "Free Will" parts of the setting.

Also Lash apparently said so in White Night. Or at least Harry says she did, she didn't actually do so "on screen" which leaves some people thinking it was a typo, and he meant Black Council. Allegedly Jim confirmed it wasn't a typo, but I wasn't able to find that WoG.
I remember that WoG, but I never took it to imply Outsider.
Something gnarly for sure, but not Outsider.
I dont see Mab or the White Council sitting at diplomatic events with something known to be tainted by Outsiders.

I dont recall her saying so.
She does say that Vittorio Malvora was possessed by an Outsider, but that's all I recall her saying to that effect.
Blampires didn't show up in White Night.

Thanks for checking anyway.
 
We know Outsiders are a thing. We dont know anything more than that.
Are they all a single faction, or different factions? Do they ALL want to destroy the world?

Do the cultists worshipping the Sleeper in the Pacific have any common cause with the posthuman Stygian Sisterhood or the sorcerers using Walker rituals for entropy curses or the Reds summoning lesser Outsiders as combat servitors?
What of Nemesis and the rest of the Walkers? Or the armies attacking the Outer Gates? How do they play into this?

The Crown is one tool; it gives us information, but that information often needs context.



If we have all the answers why are we going to the meeting?
This is a situation where my inclination is to talk to Lara, THEN use the Crown to fill in any gaps/questions we may have that aren't settled. Not to burn foci beforehand on every detail.

Its not like foci or Essence is unlimited. And not to mention that for Molly, secrets are Essence regeneration.
The probability of Lara telling us anything approaches zero. Unlike us, Lara doesn't have any intellectus-like ability or ability to discover Outsiders or any of their agents save by their actions. Her actions might not be just suboptimal, but self- and cause- harming due to her ignorance. I would rather learn the identities of those who are the enemy first.
I dont see Mab or the White Council sitting at diplomatic events with something known to be tainted by Outsiders.
They sat with White King, and, if I recall correctly, his magical immunity was outsider-given.
 
I remember that WoG, but I never took it to imply Outsider.
Something gnarly for sure, but not Outsider.
I dont see Mab or the White Council sitting at diplomatic events with something known to be tainted by Outsiders.

I dont recall her saying so.
She does say that Vittorio Malvora was possessed by an Outsider, but that's all I recall her saying to that effect.
Blampires didn't show up in White Night.

Thanks for checking anyway.
Like I said, she doesn't say it on screen. What Harry says is that they need to have a discussion about how the Black Court is connected to the outsiders in response to something she says, which is weird because she never actually mentioned the Black Court. Which is why people think it might have been a typo. They never get around to having that discussion before she dies. Allegedly when asked about it, Jim Butcher said "yes, that seems like a contradiction doesn't it?" instead of "Oops" but as I said I couldn't find the original Q&A that came from, so IDK.

White Night said:
After which, we were going to have a long talk about my mother and these Outsiders and their relation to the Black Court and exactly what the hell was going on.

My best guess, barring typo, is he was referencing something said offscreen. Or memory shenanigans.
 
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We know that Outsiders are a thing - we killed three (I think) of them personally already. We have a feeling of what Forgotten Ones are. It's best to learn who Lara is pursuing. It gives us a big advantage.
We didn't exactly kill them, though we did more than most people can hope to.

The little outsiders are telepresence murder drones. We broke someone's toys, and possibly gave them some backlash, but we'd need to get into the drone control center to kill the things operating them.

Which probably wouldn't be good for our health until we're good enough to eat a knight of the outside.
Murdering Outsiders is searing shut the wounds of creation at least when it comes to the lesser ones, they are not so much beings that come through but hairline cracks in the wall that can be moved by Those Beyond.
 
The probability of Lara telling us anything approaches zero. Unlike us, Lara doesn't have any intellectus-like ability or ability to discover Outsiders or any of their agents save by their actions. Her actions might not be just suboptimal, but self- and cause- harming due to her ignorance. I would rather learn the identities of those who are the enemy first.
1)I dont think I agree. Her lack of sensory ability =/= her lack of information or access to information.
Else we wouldn't be bothering with this meeting in the first place.
She's the queen of the White Court. Their intelligence and blackmail network is vast.

2) Word of Jim:
Unverified WoJ from the 2011 Naperville signing:
'Are there White Court vampire wizards?'

Yes, there are. Thomas is middle-of-the-road in power and [ed: think I'm remembering this correctly] the strongest don't get as strong as mortal wizards [/ed], but they can pull off some strong tricks with their Hunger.

2015 Grid Daily interview
Question about Lord Raith. In Blood Rites, Lara bests him in the fight, but in the White Knight he's still up, walking and talking, with her controlling him. How does that work? Is he a ventriloquist dummy?
He appears to be in charge, but he isn't, because Lara can do terrible things to him if he doesn't play along, and that's his option now. So he has to play along with Lara and wear the target on his chest while she runs things from behind the scenes. Everyone else in the White Court, it doesn't take them very long to figure out this is what's going on. But that's the play that they have going on, everyone has to pretend that Lord Raith is the one in charge even though they know better. Until it comes time to unseat Lara, and they'll have to take Raith out of his position in order to get Lara out of hers. Lara, at the same time, she's got to ferociously protect his position. It gets very byzantine in the White Court. They've basically got a figurehead emperor, and a pile of ministers with the real power. Lara happens to be on top of that pile of ministers at the moment.

2016 Reddit Podcast Q&A
How old is Lord Raith?
He's a couple thousand years old. He's got 2 thousand years of paranoia kinda built up. Plus he's been absolutely bonkers the past 30 years or so. He's hardly functional as a vampire, he's getting to where he's not evne functional as a figure head for much longer. That's going to be a problem for lara to deal with.

Will we find out about Lord Raith's library?
There's kind of a long game going on in the Dresden Files, and Lord Raith has been involved in it in the last couple of cycle's it's gone on. He's been trying to educate himself about it, and he meant to be a player in it this time it came around, but getting involved with Margret kind of screwed him over.
Lara's got his library now and knows everything he knows, which explains a lot of her actions.

later in the video
Paraphrased: A gestating Wampire's Hunger feeds off the mother in the same way the fetus does in order to generate enough essence to sustain itself until later, and then it goes dormant until the teenage years.
The White Court might does have vampire wizards in this AU (Thomas probably counts as one), and certainly has a massive occult library of serious occult lore with regards to the Great Game of the Dresden Files with regards to the Outsiders, Starborn and the like.

And we know very little about what other resources they might have, from spirit allies to prophecies and artifacts.

The White Court, and the rest of the supernatural world has been at this for a very, very long time, and have centuries of bitter, hard-won experience.
They dont have our advantages, but that's not the same thing as having nothing.

===
They sat with White King, and, if I recall correctly, his magical immunity was outsider-given.
No-one knew Lord Raith's magical immunity was Outsider-granted IC.
Very few people even knew he had magical immunity; Dresden certainly didn't until his grandfather told him, and his grandfather only figured that out after repeatedly trying to assassinate him with magic and failing.

Its hardly the sort of thing that's advertised.

Like I said, she doesn't say it on screen. What Harry says is that they need to have a discussion about how the Black Court is connected to the outsiders in response to something she says, which is weird because she never actually mentioned the Black Court. Which is why people think it might have been a typo. They never get around to having that discussion before she dies. Allegedly when asked about it, Jim Butcher said "yes, that seems like a contradiction doesn't it?" instead of "Oops" but as I said I couldn't find the original Q&A that came from, so IDK.



My best guess, barring typo, is he was referencing something said offscreen. Or memory shenanigans.
*checks*
Fair enough.
Couldn't find the Word of Jim, but I'll take your word for it. If there's a penny there, it has yet to drop in canon.
 
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Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on May 16, 2023 at 11:22 PM, finished with 58 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X]Plan Dance Partner
    -[X]Lydia: Bring her raven familiar to stake out the outside of the building
    -[X]Cyberdevils: Hack security cameras in the area
    -[X]Bring a health potion or two if there's time to make one
    [X] Prepare a counter-ambush
    -[X] Using one of Lara's adult video recordings ask "who among the star of this movie's acquaintances are connected to Forgotten Ones?"
    -[X] Call Lydia to prepare a counter-ambush before the meeting
    -[X] Using subterfuge and occult excellencies, WHWH, BSM and CCC if possible, carefully leak the hints about a fake "Hunger controlling magic potion recipe", such as potion component purchase history and development notes, and the "sales deal about to go down" to make yourself more appealing as bait.
    --[X] Focus on the list revealed by the Crown's question
    [X] Plan Bait
    -[X] Stick with the plan to go alone and meet Thomas there.
    -[X] Use Steel Skin before entering Thomas Salon, looking freaky is not in itself a bad thing here.
 
We didn't exactly kill them, though we did more than most people can hope to.

The little outsiders are telepresence murder drones. We broke someone's toys, and possibly gave them some backlash, but we'd need to get into the drone control center to kill the things operating them.

Which probably wouldn't be good for our health until we're good enough to eat a knight of the outside.

If you want to walk beyond the bounds of the world, manifest in your own reality you need shaping defenses, I'll tell you guys that much since it's one of the big red warning labels on the Exaltation.
 
Vote closed/
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 17, 2023 at 6:59 AM, finished with 61 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X]Plan Dance Partner
    -[X]Lydia: Bring her raven familiar to stake out the outside of the building
    -[X]Cyberdevils: Hack security cameras in the area
    -[X]Bring a health potion or two if there's time to make one
    [X] Prepare a counter-ambush
    -[X] Using one of Lara's adult video recordings ask "who among the star of this movie's acquaintances are connected to Forgotten Ones?"
    -[X] Call Lydia to prepare a counter-ambush before the meeting
    -[X] Using subterfuge and occult excellencies, WHWH, BSM and CCC if possible, carefully leak the hints about a fake "Hunger controlling magic potion recipe", such as potion component purchase history and development notes, and the "sales deal about to go down" to make yourself more appealing as bait.
    --[X] Focus on the list revealed by the Crown's question
    [X] Plan Bait
    -[X] Stick with the plan to go alone and meet Thomas there.
    -[X] Use Steel Skin before entering Thomas Salon, looking freaky is not in itself a bad thing here.
 
So EIPP, then, since that's the primary Shaping Defense for Infernals? It was on the list, anyway, so this just adds some priority.
Not that much. We definitely need it, but this isn't a super important task.

The drones aren't the important part of the outsider threat as long as the gates are well guarded, and the guys we do want to kill are actively hanging around reality.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 17, 2023 at 6:59 AM, finished with 61 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X]Plan Dance Partner
    -[X]Lydia: Bring her raven familiar to stake out the outside of the building
    -[X]Cyberdevils: Hack security cameras in the area
    -[X]Bring a health potion or two if there's time to make one
    [X] Prepare a counter-ambush
    -[X] Using one of Lara's adult video recordings ask "who among the star of this movie's acquaintances are connected to Forgotten Ones?"
    -[X] Call Lydia to prepare a counter-ambush before the meeting
    -[X] Using subterfuge and occult excellencies, WHWH, BSM and CCC if possible, carefully leak the hints about a fake "Hunger controlling magic potion recipe", such as potion component purchase history and development notes, and the "sales deal about to go down" to make yourself more appealing as bait.
    --[X] Focus on the list revealed by the Crown's question
    [X] Plan Bait
    -[X] Stick with the plan to go alone and meet Thomas there.
    -[X] Use Steel Skin before entering Thomas Salon, looking freaky is not in itself a bad thing here.
 
Arc 7 Post 8: Of Perilous Princesses
Of Perilous Princesses

31th of October 2006 A.D.

Perhaps unsurprisingly Lydia is up for meeting the lady of the White Court and Thomas' sister, curious as to the ones her father called 'perilous-clever phages'. To Arwan the White Court are upstarts that might almost be amusing in their vainglory had it not been by their hands that countless elders of the Black Court had fallen. It was in his own words relayed by his giggling daughter 'as though moths had slain a mountain lion'. When you share in confidence that the woman you are to meet is the leader in fact if not in name of the White Court that only makes her more excited and mischievously secretive in a way that remind one that she is only fifteen.

Exactly what she had been planning is clear the moment you lay eyes on you, garbed in a grey Elizabethan dress, its high laced color like moth's wings that legends tell bear up the souls of the dead and on her head a delicate tiara, silver and pearls, glowing with an inner sheen as though alive in the morning light. It all seems very ren-fair-y... except that is not costume jewelry, none of it it. Judging by the tinny marks of age that only the hand of time can leave upon a thing, be it ever so well cared, it must be old indeed, hopefully not seventeenth-century-old that would might get you ambushed by angry museum curators which make the vampires look tame, but there is no way yo know.

"What do you think?" Lydia twirls in place, dress flying an inch of so off the pavement.

"A bit early to be dressing up," you point out. Dropping the smile you add. "We might have to fight you know."

"Oh don't worry, the sleeves and the hem are specially stitched to tear off easily." So probably not an original, thankfully. "Dad did say to dress in accordance to my station when talking to the White Court."

"Well not you're making me feel under-dressed," you grimace, sounding more serious than you had meant to.

"Go with the chainmail," your friend shrugs. When she sees you hesitate she adds: "Come on its Halloween, when else are you going to be able to show up without anyone batting an eye."

Is that why people still dress up for the day, you wonder suddenly. Did some power of the supernatural craft the season, from lawn skeletons to neon candy specifically so that on this day when eternal becomes transient the mundane masses of humanity should have a ready made excuse for seeing strange folk abroad. The thought is not a pleasant one, unlike Lydia's revelry in the freedom of the hour you cannot take your mind off what it means to engineer such a thing, how easily men are made puppets of that which they cannot see, that which is hidden from them.

It is one such puppetmaster and predator you are to meet today. Ensconced in one of the colorful couches of Thomas' Salon, still empty the better to accommodate the meeting, Lara Raith looks like nothing so much as the centerfold of a fashion magazine incarnate among the plebeians, all the more remarkable since no one would call her beauty conventional, her face has just the right about of asymmetry to lend character and will and she fills out the dark blue dress unfairly well in your opinion, but it is the eyes under perfectly arched eyebrows that arrest one in place, grey with specks of violet like twilight in a cemetery.

It's hard to say what you had expected out of such a figure, but it is not professional handshakes her respectful greetings that seem at once unphased by you wearing night-black chain-mail or Lydia being dressed for the court of Queen Elizabeth... the Previous. "I'm pleased to see could make the time to see me on such short notice." Her smile is at once warm and apologetic, not so much as to strain belief, but enough to disarm the worst of your annoyance at being summarily summoned. "And glad I am to greet the daughter of Arwan's line as befits one of royal blood and mien on a day so portentous."

Lydia smiles in response, but as she sits down she looks, distracted, or thoughtful. Catching your curious gaze she shakes her head. Net yet... or perhaps not here you guess from her look.

"So on the matter of the tonic you have developed," Lara begins, turning back yo you. "There are of course among those who have guessed at its existence concerns with regards to quality and safety. Personally having observed one of those to whom it has been given I do not hold with either." She tips her head towards Thomas who looks... long suffering would be the best description, though more in the familial exasperation sense than the more serious. After the glimpse you caught of Isabela's interaction with her family you are relieved to see it, even though it means you might not be able to trust Thomas as much as you might at other times.

"I know your time is short so let me be blunt. Magic has a price even though it is often a subtle one. weakness, alienation, addiction or sundry other imbalances of the body mind and soul. I would like to know which one my brother is currently laboring under to maintain his... lifestyle. Rest assured I do not shock easily and I will not hold it against you..." She pauses. "I might under certain circumstances, but given who your father is and what he bears the price is most unlikely to fall within the scope of mys displeasure."

"Lara..." Thomas starts before you can react, his tone a warning.

The vampire in question just rolls her not-quite-human eyes. "They might be young, they are not children."

"You sound like a pre-Imperial relic," Thomas grouses, but settles back. From context you guess he's comparing Lara to the elders neither of them have much liking to

"Already reduced to insults little brother?" The tone is teasing but only just, as a cat playfully unsheathing her claws.

How do you describe Mercy in Servitude?

[] Deceptively, try to continue the perception that it is a potion, though one you will not sell only share with friends

[] Bluntly, all those who serve you are granted control of aspects of inner darkness that would be otherwhise outside their control

[] Vaguely, it is not sustenance, but control and only something you will share with vampires willing to work with you

[] Fully, as much as you can recount the feeling of pale flame under your own unlight

[] Write in


OOC: As long as her father is not technically deposed Lara is technically a princess which makes for three very non-Disney princesses present.
 
Okay, we're here and Lara really does appear to be completely out of the loop about the origin of MiS. I don't see any reason to dither around with the truth here. The longer we draw out the charade, either through misdirection or outright falsehood, the greater the complications are likely to be when the truth comes to light.

Also, the longer people go on believing that we have a secret potion recipe to satiate the Hunger, the more greedy assholes there will be trying to get up in our business.

[X] Bluntly, all those who serve you are granted control of aspects of inner darkness that would be otherwhise outside their control
-[X] But that service is not binding. Service grants protection, but those under your protection can leave at any time.
 
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Okay, we're here and Lara really does appear to be completely out of the loop about the origin of MiS. I don't see any reason to dither around with the truth here. The longer we draw out the charade, either through misdirection or outright falsehood, the greater the complications are likely to be when the truth comes to light.

Also, the longer people go on believing that we have a secret potion recipe to satiate the Hunger, the more greedy assholes there will be trying to get up in our business.

[X] Bluntly, all those who serve you are granted control of aspects of inner darkness that would be otherwhise outside their control
I would also point out that she is not the first member of the white court we have explained this too. This WILL get out.

[X] Bluntly, all those who serve you are granted control of aspects of inner darkness that would be otherwhise outside their control
- [X] But that service is not binding. Service grants protection, but those under your protection can leave at any time.
 
Idea: Maybe burn Thomas' salon as a location? This can be worded much better, but the gist of it could be:

"What are the forces intended to be sent to attack the people in this location within the next [several hours]?"
---
As Molly has been honest with those who benefit from Mercy in Servitude in terms of the power's cost and the limits of those benefits, I do not think it is a secret that we can expect to not be found out by anyone sufficiently interested.

I'd be incline to be vague here just to try and tease out more of what she might want out of this conversation, aside from using Molly as bait.
 
[X] Bluntly, all those who serve you are granted control of aspects of inner darkness that would be otherwhise outside their control
- [X] But that service is not binding. Service grants protection, but those under your protection can leave at any time.
 
Idea: Maybe burn Thomas' salon as a location? This can be worded much better, but the gist of it could be:

"What are the forces intended to be sent to attack the people in this location within the next [several hours]?"
---
As Molly has been honest with those who benefit from Mercy in Servitude in terms of the power's cost and the limits of those benefits, I do not think it is a secret that we can expect to not be found out by anyone sufficiently interested.

I'd be incline to be vague here just to try and tease out more of what she might want out of this conversation, aside from using Molly as bait.
What we do sets the tone for how we will interact going forward. She's a wraith. They are GOOD at social maneuvering. It may be good to set the tone going in that we are not doing that.
 
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