Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
We should probably have a stunt in play for anything other than using the crown.
It's also worth remembering that we have Lydia with us right now too. She should probably be doing something while Molly goes for whatever action we vote on.
In this situation she's also got a -2 difficulty modifier for all socials, and her manipulation excellency is already up. Manipulation + empathy to prod Eiko for some elaboration would give her 11 dice at a reasonable DC.
It's also worth remembering that we have Lydia with us right now too. She should probably be doing something while Molly goes for whatever action we vote on.
In this situation she's also got a -2 difficulty modifier for all socials, and her manipulation excellency is already up. Manipulation + empathy to prod Eiko for some elaboration would give her 11 dice at a reasonable DC.
- Location
- Terror Australis
Ok I should address this because you have made some mistakes regarding the mechanics for some of these Paths. Having said that DP might change some of the mechanics for the quest, so all details are subject to QM choices.
Divination rolls are [Casting Attribute] + [Path Ability] like all Paths of Sorcery, currently Molly's Casting Attribute is Intelligence not Perception, so All Things Betray won't help.
Shadows isn't that good for disguises, the direct dice bonuses adds [Aspect] to Stealth, Intimidation and concealing you identity via casting yourself in shadow. The concealment produces X-Com style vague shadowy person who's features you can't make out, not looking like other people.
As I note in the post Summoning, Binding and Warding is not actually very good at general protections for areas.
You need a specific Ritual (which must be purchased individually with xp) for each type of thing you want to ward against and the reach of those rituals is quite limited. To protect Last Station we would have needed to have purchased a Ward against Undead or Jade Court Vampires (Vampires would have worked as well but that would lock in/out the White Court Vampires living there) and we would need at least 4 dots in the Path (to get the duration and area high enough we can actually afford to ward the entire are. Then we would have to cast it multiple times (the area of effect for a Warding Circle is smaller than Last Station) just to protect against one type of target.
Now Summoning, Binding and Warding is decent at containing things you Summon (assuming you are smart enough to learn Wards for whatever you are summoning) and to provide a boost to the Sorcerer's personal protection (-[Strength Aspect] to all dice pools vs the caster is no joke).
If you want general area protection you need to use Enchantment to make Talismans that protect areas or locations. (Alternatively you use Enchantment, Mana Manipulation and the full Chantry/Construct creation rules)
Hellfire provides rather weak and slow attacks for the xp cost. Removing the Willpower cost increases the difficulty by 2 not 1. Casting Spells takes base of [Spell Level] turns + 1 extra turn for each roll past the first, reducing this adds 1 difficulty to all rolls for the spell and you need to reach [sum of Aspects] successes to actually cast the spell. Damage is 2 dice per level in the Damage Aspect and aspects max out at [Spell level].
So when a Master (5 dots) casts the strongest level 3 Hellfire spell they can without spending a willpower point they take rolls at Difficulty 9 (4 + spell level + 2), needs 9 successes (Range 3, Area 3, Damage 3) and takes 3 turns for the first roll and one turn for each roll thereafter. Now if we assume we have a Talisman that provides -2 difficulty, it is only difficulty 7 and if we assume Excellency use gives us dice pool of 18 ([Intelligence + Occult]x2). Thus we will on average need one to two rolls taking a total of 3 or 4 turns to cast the spell. This spell will target an area up to 6ft in radius, at a range of 25ft and deal 6 dice of damage (by default fire).
By contrast Principle Invoking Onslaught allows us to spend one Essence to create a mechanically complex weapon for one scene (it specifically can summon things like a whole bandolier of grenades with one use). For Molly a fragmentation grenade deals 12 dice of lethal or aggravated damage (Transcendent Anathema) with a base blast area of 3 yards (-1 level of damage per yard outside area), a range of however far a strength 4 person can throw one and can attack every turn (1 turn concentration reloads any weapon). PIO also allow conjuration of incendiaries, flashbangs, concussion grenades, guns, RPGs and more.
Mastering a Path costs 34xp (49xp for Legendary), PIO cost 12xp + however much we want spend on Athletics/Firearms. Infernal charms are much stronger than Hellfire at anything like equivalent investment.
EDIT:
To be fair I should include the stats for a level 5 Hellfire spell for fair comparison. This spell costs 1 willpower, with the same assumptions as above (-2 difficulty from item, Excellency boost), a max effect level 5 Spell rolls 18 dice at difficulty 7, needing 15 successes (Range 5, Area 5, Damage 5) and taking 5 turns for the first roll and one turn per extra roll. Thus on average Molly will need 4 rolls taking a total of 8 turns to cast this spell. This spell targets an area 25ft in radius, up to 150ft away and deals 10 dice of damage.
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And things like man portable anti-tank weapons would probably do vastly more damage than a grenade.
@uju32 the problem with using the Sword to save Wan Kuei as far as Molly can guess (which is not as much as other subjects, she does not have a specialization in the White God) is that the Demon People are dead. It may be that the way the Sword would save one of them would be to kill them in such a way as their master could not get their soul, which is as absolute a form of freedom as you can get but not what most akuma are looking for.
I wouldn't expect any one charm to be able to save an akuma's soul. Certainly not MiS, as it's a consequence of sighing away their soul not an inherent part of being a Wan Kuei, and not VEE as being an akuma isn't a Flaw.
The one that might help is False Springs Beckon, which should treat the symptoms not the cause, given it can do things like suspend a mage's curse. It would probably take three uses, as False Springs Beckon only treats one symptom at a time, not everything afflicting someone. You'd need to use it once to block surveillance, once to block commands, and once to block the ability to remotely destroy the akuma or turn them into a chei-mei. Even with False Springs Beckon I don't think you could restore the foresworn ability to have a dharma, and I don't think you could prevent the Yama King withdrawing their blessing that allows them to feed on higher sources of energy than flesh. However, Maggot Mana Plague would probably substitute for that.
This would buy time for exploring other options, which would probably require breaking into Kakuri and stealing back the souls of the akuma. At that point Molly could either give them their souls back, which would remove the issues with surveillance and being destroyed or turned into chin-mei on a whim. They'd still have the issue of having irrevocably sworn not to have a dharma anymore in that case, so be very vulnerable to spontaneous degeneration.
The best option would be for Molly to work out how to use ownership of a Wan Kuei's soul to make them akuma of her rather than of Emma-O, so she can grant them the ability to feed and stability against degeneration.
The one that might help is False Springs Beckon, which should treat the symptoms not the cause, given it can do things like suspend a mage's curse. It would probably take three uses, as False Springs Beckon only treats one symptom at a time, not everything afflicting someone. You'd need to use it once to block surveillance, once to block commands, and once to block the ability to remotely destroy the akuma or turn them into a chei-mei. Even with False Springs Beckon I don't think you could restore the foresworn ability to have a dharma, and I don't think you could prevent the Yama King withdrawing their blessing that allows them to feed on higher sources of energy than flesh. However, Maggot Mana Plague would probably substitute for that.
This would buy time for exploring other options, which would probably require breaking into Kakuri and stealing back the souls of the akuma. At that point Molly could either give them their souls back, which would remove the issues with surveillance and being destroyed or turned into chin-mei on a whim. They'd still have the issue of having irrevocably sworn not to have a dharma anymore in that case, so be very vulnerable to spontaneous degeneration.
The best option would be for Molly to work out how to use ownership of a Wan Kuei's soul to make them akuma of her rather than of Emma-O, so she can grant them the ability to feed and stability against degeneration.
[X] Use the Crown to learn the details of Eiko's plan to escape service to Emma-O.
Not having control over your soul is definitely a Flaw by all measures.
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- Location
- Terror Australis
Weirdly by RAW an anti-armour missile is only 16 dice, though it has an blast area of 30', so it is more of a frag missile.
Machine gun firing full auto is 22dice though and with Transcendent Anathema can cripple a heavy tank in one to two turns though.
Edit:
Misremembered the Durability rules, generally would take Molly two turns to destroy a tank.
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I think at some point you just have to say that the Storyteller adjacent rules for modern military weapons are simply wrong. There's no way that a heavy machine gun does more damage than something like a Javelin missile.
It's not. Flaw is a system term that means a specific and quite limited set of things. The various downsides of being a vampire aren't a Flaw despite being a curse, and there being examples of Curses that manifest as Flaws. Being an akuma isn't a Flaw, otherwise the rules would say you gain the following set of Flaws. They're just inherent to the condition of being an akuma. Same as the issues with being permanently Yang or Yin or Hun or P'o imbalanced.
That's because various powers interact with Flaws (and Merits). It's why VEE can't take away a Wan Kuei's vulnerability to being put into torpor if they're staked, but can take away the flaw that makes being staked give them the final death.
If something is a Flaw or Merit it's much easier to gain or lose than something that's not, that's just part of you. That's why VEE can grant or remove them. Not every flaw is a Flaw. For example, for a Wan Kuei or a ghost, being dead is quite a flaw. Should VEE be able to make them alive again?
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Disagree being akuma means having sold your soul it an artificial change, they can get along just fine as a normal Kuijin without selling their soul.
Being a proper lesser akuma requires two thing:
- That the Wan Kuei has chosen to sell all their soul to a Yama King.
- That the Wan Kuei has performed the Rite of Renunciation, a magical ritual by which they forever give up the possibility of redemption by following a Dharma along the road back, while instead giving that Yama King complete authority over them.
If you make a bad deal or swear a bad oath then VEE does not undo it. Nor does it allow you to opt out of the consequences of any and all magical rituals you've performed on yourself.
VEE is limited. It can't do things like resurrect a ghost, or allow an Exalt to break the age cap on Essence (or presumably let a Wan Kuei break the age cap on Dharma). Similarly, it can't grant Infernal Investments, as they're not Merits, or grant Fomor Powers or the Special Advantages from Gods and Monsters.
It also can't, as I say, correct the symptoms of Permanent Yang or Yin or Hun or Po imbalance in a Wan Kuei, even though they're self-inflicted and reversible.
It also can't break most spells or the use of continuing Discipline Powers or being possessed on someone. You need other Ancient Sorcery spells or Charms for that. If someone has been Soul Bonded with five dot Prayer Eating, VEE will do nothing.
VEE is powerful and does a lot of useful things. That list of things is sharply circumscribed though.
In this scenario, what we need is False Spring Beckons and Mana Maggot Plague to buy time, raiding Emma-O's treasury to recover the akuma's soul, and then developing an Ancient Sorcery ritual using it to finally transform the akuma again.
This is at least partially because saving an akuma is the kind of grand challenge that an Exalt should be going on an adventure to do, not trivialising on the background with a single charm activation. Charms exist to facilitate this kind of high stakes adventure, not to eliminate them.
Raising Emma-O's treasury is exactly the kind of thing an Infernal Exalt should be doing. Saving an akuma is the kind of impossible task that almost no one else can do that ExWoD adventures should be all about, like fighting Methuselah.
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I would strongly recommend not doing that, or at the very least not just that and activate some of our charms, because there is still a non negligible possibility of her not wanting to escape service and in that case we just burned her as a focus for naught and still aren't prepared for the conversation, and even if she is, we will activate the charms anyway since it's to our advantage and waiting doesn't help us.
[] Use the Crown to learn the details of the traitor akuma's plan to escape service to Emma-O.
However; the fact that she tried to slip us a clandestine message makes me think that she almost certainly is the traitor.
Edit: if we use the prior wording and it whiffs that tells us what we need to know as well, which is that we need to kill her and her allies here and now, so we should stick with it.
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Yes, but they offer the option, not impose it.
Michael lived in the same city as Bianca's Red Court, and even showed up to the infamous ball that set off the events of the rest of the series. Shiro was second at Dresden's first meeting with Ortega. They are trusted to hold to their word even without being Accord signatories, and their redlines are wellknown.
I need to come back to this later, when I have books at hand.Once we have our hell we can just drop people in there, then pop back out alone and teleport via RVD.
Better range, larger group size per single instance, and it costs motes instead of willpower which makes it easier to regenerate resources for.
We also only pay to shift people, so we can do multiple teleports for free to get to exactly where we want to go before paying the retrieval price if we need to.
That's not even getting into the possibilities of our allies with the ability to open nevernever portals mapping out routes. I'm not sure if Molly's hell will be accessible in the same way faerie is since it's inside her soul, but if it is some shenanigans are possible.
Given the tendency for Ways to move around and the conceptual association rules it'd make a lot of sense if opening one standing in Molly's throne room, for example, always opened a path to wherever she is at the moment.
If we have more fixed passages* then we could have Harry (Or whoever we can get that has the ability) pay for gas on supernatural road trips for us.
Just portal in, pass through customs, and take a train ride to the palace to portal out once we reach our destination.
So much more convenient than running through forests of giant spiders on your third of six layovers in some convoluted path.
* Like a magical subway station in a city strongly associated with travel with connections all over the place that we manage to take over or something silly like that.
Because I recall doing the math before, and something stood out to me.
Human dreams border on the NeverNever. Thats how Dresden got attacked by the Nightmare when he was sleeping back in Grave Peril, and how Dresden got back at him in return later in the book. And I doubt we're getting a Hell that other Yama Kings wont get some way to attack; indeed its a design requirement for a Hell to have escape routes for prisoners.
So yeah, expect Ways.
Counterpoint: Sir Stuart Winchester in Ghost Story. Ron Carmichael. Captain Jack Murphy.
And the rest of Uriel's little black ops crew out there in the NeverNever, who he had a hand in personally recruiting, and which have an angel watching over their HQ. Hell, even what was purported to be Dresden's father's spirit visiting him in Grave Peril iirc.
The White God's agents arent averse to working with and around the mortality-challenged.
Of course, Molly might not know this.
Which is plausible.
Its only been four months since she Exalted, after all.
[]STUNT: "It is said " Lydia interjects, drawing the attention of the devil-eaten woman making "that you cannot catch tiger cubs without entering the tiger's lair. And yet what bear would walk into Baihu's den and not be accounted foolish?" Firmly you throttle your impatience, and expand your senses with an effort of will, perceptions broadening and sharpening in the passing of an instant, a thousand cues previously hidden to you revealing themselves. And then as the akuma glances back at you, you stare into her eyes and see.
Lydia is already running a Manipulation Excellency.
Manipulation 3 + Empathy 3 + Excellency (Current Willpower 6) + Natural Linguist 3
15 dice.
Vote closed, I do not want to drag this out too much.
So we're now at 3 motes, and have been warned that dawn is too far away to really count for the purposes of social or combat with Eiko. Probably shouldn't spend any more of our essence here unless we get regen in the same scene.
I don't expect him to force it, but I expect his presence to change the tone of things in a way that makes recruitment awkward and more difficult than it should be.
Per the charm the only way in or out is the literal border. It's not guaranteed that we'll have useful natural ways since the current plans all make that area very unpleasant even by normal way standards.
Winning Vote
Arc 6 Post 22: The Light of Frozen Realms
The Light of Frozen Realms
3nd of October 2006 A.D.
"It is said " Lydia interjects, drawing the attention of the devil-eaten woman making "That you cannot catch tiger cubs without entering the tiger's lair. And yet what bear would walk into Baihu's den and not be accounted foolish?" Firmly you throttle your impatience, and expand your senses with an effort of will, perceptions broadening and sharpening in the passing of an instant, a thousand cues previously hidden to you revealing themselves. And then as the akuma's dark gaze meets yours you push. Not by power but will alone you draw aside the curtain of Eiko's greatest secret
Lost 2 Essence and 1 Willpower -> Now at 3/12 and 9/9
***
Broken and tortured the mountains rise towards the sky that has no horizon, their faces scared by the wrath of a ruined god . Dark siblings they might be to Mount Norikura, a saddle upon the earth, Mount Yake, still-water guardian, Mount Hotakadake, loftiest among its peers, but forever nameless for no eyes save the shikome can look upon them through the endless night of Kakuri and they do not look to the horizon, only upon the trail of their prey. They move like shadows blacker than the night around them, they circle like a wolf pack. All skill all subtlety, all artifice and etiquette means nothing in this place, for they are tortures of the damned and they revel in it even as they are debased, freedom in slavery, meaning ripped from the empty howl of the wind
The wind did not deafen the trio of huntresses thus they could hear him, brass rings jingling accompanied by an off-key whistling, the dark did not blind him and so they could see the splash of black saffron against the snow. A holy man. She who was called the Blood-Stained Chrysanthemum remembered many holy men, some some she had slain and some she had spoken to, enemies and allies, travelers along the Path.
She who was still Eiko hated, not yet wholly wind-eaten, hated the surety of the interloper's steps, more than she loved the thought of the amusement breaking him would bring. So caught was she in the net of hate that she did not notice the others draw back in sudden understanding.
They did not call her back, there was no honor in Kakuri.
So did the shikome bar her quarry's path like onto the endless cold of the Night Realm given claws and fangs so did she look upon that slender face bald head and eyes... she knew those eyes, she had seen them glare with fury and disappointment from atop a throne of ice and bone throne in Kyuden no Kakuri, but she had never seen within them a look of compassion.
"Come, walk with me," the man said, his soft voice clearly heard even here. "Walk with me and be at peace."
He spoke true for he could do no other, his honor was as unblemished as the Night Realm was tainted, he was Jizo Bosatsu whom Emma-O had cast from himself but could not cast from his realm
They spoke of many things walking against the wind, as other shikome had done through the centuries, what it was to walk the path that was no path, marked with your own blood, the weight of souls and the meaning of anchors. "I am he and he is me, one gift he has given me and one gift I can give that of separation. Accept that you are less and you might hear the Song of the Shadows once more."
Fear hope, shame, revulsion, fear hope shame... The emotions cycle through Eiko like an electric current. How could she not take his hand?> How could she give up so much of herself, all that she had surrendered, all that had been changed.
"I cannot." Two words yet all the robed wanderer needed to hear, he raised his staff to fight as he had done times uncounted... but this too the Akuma refused, to her shame ever-lasting. Her hatred had died, but terror and greed still passed through her heart like worms through rotted fruit.
***
Gained 2 Essence -> Now at 5/12
The monochrome vision of Yomi unravels into the green light that paints warped shadows against the walls of the hotel lobby just as Jizo Bosatsu opened his mouth to speak, to offer counsel or compassion, of those words you can only know one thing that they must have made Eiko's shame less not more for the nadir of her greatest sin as she sees it, cowardice that did not allow her to be wholly a traitor nor wholly loyal to Emma-O
Her voice is unshaken by the show of inhuman power, she faces eyes of flame unflinchingly. "When one speaks of stars, seeds scattered about are of little import " If anything the akuma seems faintly amused by Lydia's attempt to being the conversation back to the Jade Dogs, but her hands are still, too still, almost as if she is afraid that if she does not hold them rigid her iron-hard nails will rip though the velvet of the couch.
"Only a fool casts seeds to chance and does not plant them by the signs of the stars." You speak sharply, you speak sincerely, but still within the bounds of courtesy, a painful balance, made all the more so by what you are trying to get across: 'My people are not insignificant to me.'
"Rare are the crops replanted by the light of an eclipse, flowers more often then rice and yet they must love the moon as they love the sun."
Moon and sun roosters, bears and tigers, this conversation could be a coloring book, you think in frustration, yet a niggling thread pulls at your mind, Eiko's title. If she is the flower replanted by the 'light' of both Jizo Bosatsu and he Yamma King from which the holy man springs then... then she would not be trying to get through to you with riddles would she? An eclipsed sun is still the sun and thus still casts some light...
Oh... the realization is less lightning bolt from the blue and more round peg finally fitting into the round hole. Lady Eiko had convinced herself that it would be in Emma-O's interest, above all others if he abandoned the darkness he has cultivated... which would not so incidentally allow her to restore her Dharma without losing the parts of herself that have been claimed by the Lord of the Night Realm. That is why she had been asking about forgiveness, redemption, not for herself but for her lord.
"Yes..." Usum's voice is barely even a whisper in your mind, more of a hum, vaguely appreciative at that. "If she has a standing order to follow her lord's interests that might be enough to step around or even eschew many lesser priorities, but surely not all. If this became known to Emma-O, that one of his servants seeks to shape him, his wrath would be beyond words." Now he is giggling, an eerie near-musical sound, like silver bells recorded on half-ruined tape.
The question still remains what does Eiko think you can do to help her... and Emma-O's hypothetical redemption.
What do you do?
[] Ask what you can do to help
-[] Write in stunt
[] Turn the conversation to the Seed of Night, maybe you can come at this from the other angle
-[] Write in stunt
[] Write in
OOC: And done... man high level social combat is as complex to write as combat if for completely different reasons
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Rolls
Naked Wicked Souls
Intelligence+Empathy, trying to read the better nature of a dark god through someone else's memory... a bridge too far
Eiko trying to understand your anima... if she had gotten 3+ successes it would have freaked her out into an attack
Eiko rolls willpower not to freak out
Molly notices she is a little too still
Rolling for softer intimidation since you cannot easily climb down
Hint again... well at least it's not a botch
Thankfully now that she got a success Molly can use her own social skills to interpret
Molly poker face...
Holds up
Naked Wicked Souls
Intelligence+Empathy, trying to read the better nature of a dark god through someone else's memory... a bridge too far
Eiko trying to understand your anima... if she had gotten 3+ successes it would have freaked her out into an attack
Eiko rolls willpower not to freak out
Molly notices she is a little too still
Rolling for softer intimidation since you cannot easily climb down
Hint again... well at least it's not a botch
Thankfully now that she got a success Molly can use her own social skills to interpret
Molly poker face...
Holds up
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In this case getting her to speak plainly would be a way to inflict torture and ego death by proxy, specifically Emma-O's proxy.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Gotcha, we murder Emma-O.
Comme tary later.
Focusing on one point that stands out to me.
Reading the nature of a Yama King via someone else's memory should be a Perception roll, to which ATB applies.
Specifically, NWS
And for some reason Demonic Primacy of Essence doesnt apply to a social role against a shikome?
I didnt think shikome qualified to be ancient vamp/Incarna-level entities.
Just seems like an error.
🤷
Either way, figuring out that Jizo is/was a part of Emma-O certainly counts as an occult secret.
+2m Essence.
Focusing on one point that stands out to me.
This is an odd roll.
Reading the nature of a Yama King via someone else's memory should be a Perception roll, to which ATB applies.
Specifically, NWS
Assuming Wits + Subterfuge is 9, ATB brings that down to DC6.
And for some reason Demonic Primacy of Essence doesnt apply to a social role against a shikome?
I didnt think shikome qualified to be ancient vamp/Incarna-level entities.
Just seems like an error.
🤷
Either way, figuring out that Jizo is/was a part of Emma-O certainly counts as an occult secret.
+2m Essence.