fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I assume that those people who voted against getting a solution have a solid idea with a clear way to implement.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Well, we could use Maggot mana plague... oh, wait, right, people voted against it while assuring it wasn't needed, nevermind, guess she's fucked.
- Location
- Germany
I guess the "safest" way would be to let her drink from someone who will survive it.
For example an older Vampire, like the Wan Kuei we have to confront the next few days. Or a Naagloshii.
Ask her to wait till christmas? That's the time we are likely to have a solution by. Either MMP, alchemy, or our kingdom. And we already have a commitment to change someone by that time.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Yes the safest thing for her would be for her to be present for our fight with the Naagloshii and drink it's dispair as we crush it under our feet.
I'm on board for giving Daniel a car, but should we do it later in private?
Teenage boys can be touchy about the silliest stuff.
Remember from the end of that encounter that she's stuck in stasis until she fully fledges. Her life isn't at risk, she just has to muddle along as a baseline mortal until it's handled.
Not getting cool super powers isn't some grand sin against her person. Especially since the plan you're talking about was to play mad scientist with her and see what happened.
Something which may have had adverse consequences since we now know MMP definitely adds permanent loyalty programming and we'd be dosing her during an important transition period that could give it greater effects.
In addition to that, those with unshaped inner darkness turn into maggot people if they have too much of the MMP "food". If that's a benchmark for deep influence on the part of the charm then she could easily have ended up stuck with something unpleasant.
Teenage boys can be touchy about the silliest stuff.
No reason to spread salt about it. For one thing it's not helpful, and for another she isn't actually fucked.
Remember from the end of that encounter that she's stuck in stasis until she fully fledges. Her life isn't at risk, she just has to muddle along as a baseline mortal until it's handled.
Not getting cool super powers isn't some grand sin against her person. Especially since the plan you're talking about was to play mad scientist with her and see what happened.
Something which may have had adverse consequences since we now know MMP definitely adds permanent loyalty programming and we'd be dosing her during an important transition period that could give it greater effects.
In addition to that, those with unshaped inner darkness turn into maggot people if they have too much of the MMP "food". If that's a benchmark for deep influence on the part of the charm then she could easily have ended up stuck with something unpleasant.
A newly awakened White vampire can eat enough to kill dozens of normal humans, and that still might not be enough.
Naagloshii and elder wan kuei likely have the same issue as us - their essence, unless specifically prepared, would be too much for her.
It likely is, actually, in her peer circle and family.
I feel that loyalty programming is overstating it a bit.
Into maggot people unless we have our kingdom, then they get properties associated with it.
- Location
- Germany
She could have had her drink from the Elder Whampire with her, so I really don't think it's a matter of power.
Our essence is specifically tainted in a way that makes it dangerous to Chi-Drinking Vampires, an Elder Wan Kuei's would not be.
Also funny enough, Infernals would be a good meal for regular blood-drinking Vampires, like the Red or Black Court, only Wan Kuei react badly.
Elder whampire is of the same breed, and clan as her. It's likely that his energy is much more comparable to her than anyone else's.
Another point is that she can't really feed on friendlies, at least not without evoking despair in them.
- Location
- Germany
Another Whampire could feed on a half-bigfoot without causing permanent harm, so I think there's some compatibility outside her own kind and humans.
As for despair, yeah that's why I suggested enemies.
People despairing while they fight us are an option.
Catching up....
You need to look at both its intended usage, other similar charms for a comparison, and the broader implications of this ruling
1)Its designed, in part, to feed people in extremis.
With that in mind, the initial -1DC seems designed to be temporary, while the stage 2 effect is supposed to be more or less permanent after the person has had in excess of a week to seek alternatives.
When it has made no permanent change to the recipient, it seems logical that the social effect is only designed to last while the energy hasnt been metabolozed.
If the person has been mutated, then sure.
2)If stage 1 bound a person irretrievably to you, sating their hunger?
They wouldnt need to eat any more again.
Yet that is neither the fluff nor the mechanics of the charm.
3)Lets look at some other Infernal charms for comparison.
Verdant Emptiness Endowment requires that a person receive the charm three times over three years in order for Molly to hit them with the loyalty + -3DC social debuff effect. Chirality Prohibition Index requires a full week of training in order to change the person into a CoD, and subsequent weeks to stack additional orders.
Inner Devils Unleashed can change a person immediately, but it can be reversed at will.
Crowned With Fury maxes out at a year and a day, and the person is freed, or they can suffer lethal damage to break the geas.
Permanent, undoable changes to a person do not appear to be balanced to be something easy to accomplish.
And there is always an offramp for the subjects to bail out.
Or a grace period.
4)There's the further implications of this.
As defined right now, Molly could puree a bunch of maggots, dump it into the water supply or food supply of a fair sized city. Or into the food/water supply of the White Council HQ. Or a dinner party for VIPs. And she'd have them at a disadvantage for life.
This turns a 2-dot charm into a setting breaking effect. And not in a fun way.
===
Still your prerogative to exercise, of course.
Just adding my belated two cents, simce I missed the initial discussion.
The magnitude of the useful effect has very little bearing on the prescription status of a drug, which is as much political as scientific. And the lack of physical effects does not preclude the existence of longterm psychological effects.
If marijuana ended up banned for most of the 20th century, I guarantee that an antisleep drug would be prescription only for at least the first several decades.
For another, the ability to recover from death, assuming thats a chosen mechanic, doesnt actually make death any less traumatic for most people. Just like our ability to fix a fracture doesnt stop a broken bone from being a singularly unpleasant experience.
And for a third, you are making a presumption of enforced migration for Whampires to our Hell.
With no idea about their magical biology, and if there is a requirement that binds them to the material world.
Or indeed, if they want to go.
The problem, as it appears to me, is that you consider permanent social influence on the order of -1DC to be horrifying enough to deny the option of choice to adults in their right mind, and will rather point at options that you believe have a non-zero chance of death for the other party in this.
Which seems an odd set of priorities to me.
===
You can justify harvesting or inflicting lust and even fear to yourself as healthy, or at least non-permanently harmful emotions to feed by. Not despair.
I am having trouble with the idea that we should be okay with killing sapients in order to feed our minions but that informed use of MMP is beyond the pale.
This. I am reasonably sure that most half-Reds, for example, would rather have the option of sating their Hunger with a magic effect that ensures they neither run out of juice in combat operations nor fuck up and drain someone and damn themselves.
So would many(not all, but many) Whampires.
These are invariably adults; their various inheritances do not activate until they are old enough to make their own decisions.
Treat them like adults.
Give them the choice.
IIRC, you can accept a -1DC increase in difficulty in exchange for using an Alchemy or Enchantment ritual you havent actually bought. Else those Paths would be essentially unusable compared to the other linear Sorcery Paths.
Every other linear sorcery Path largely pays a one and done XP cost to go from, say,Tier 2 to Tier 3.
If a practitioner of Alchemy and Enchantment had to
A) pay XP to go from Tier 2 to Tier 3
B) pay AP to discover, research and design individual Tier 3 items/formulas/recipes
C) Pay XP for each individual item/formula/recipe/design
D) Pay money or Resources to both set up a workshop and acquire raw materials
E) Spend time to make the items or formulas in question
Well, then neither of them would be very feasible in play.
My two cents.
I disagree with this interpretation, by the way.
You need to look at both its intended usage, other similar charms for a comparison, and the broader implications of this ruling
1)Its designed, in part, to feed people in extremis.
With that in mind, the initial -1DC seems designed to be temporary, while the stage 2 effect is supposed to be more or less permanent after the person has had in excess of a week to seek alternatives.
When it has made no permanent change to the recipient, it seems logical that the social effect is only designed to last while the energy hasnt been metabolozed.
If the person has been mutated, then sure.
2)If stage 1 bound a person irretrievably to you, sating their hunger?
They wouldnt need to eat any more again.
Yet that is neither the fluff nor the mechanics of the charm.
3)Lets look at some other Infernal charms for comparison.
Verdant Emptiness Endowment requires that a person receive the charm three times over three years in order for Molly to hit them with the loyalty + -3DC social debuff effect. Chirality Prohibition Index requires a full week of training in order to change the person into a CoD, and subsequent weeks to stack additional orders.
Inner Devils Unleashed can change a person immediately, but it can be reversed at will.
Crowned With Fury maxes out at a year and a day, and the person is freed, or they can suffer lethal damage to break the geas.
Permanent, undoable changes to a person do not appear to be balanced to be something easy to accomplish.
And there is always an offramp for the subjects to bail out.
Or a grace period.
4)There's the further implications of this.
As defined right now, Molly could puree a bunch of maggots, dump it into the water supply or food supply of a fair sized city. Or into the food/water supply of the White Council HQ. Or a dinner party for VIPs. And she'd have them at a disadvantage for life.
This turns a 2-dot charm into a setting breaking effect. And not in a fun way.
===
Still your prerogative to exercise, of course.
Just adding my belated two cents, simce I missed the initial discussion.
With all respect, I compared it to modafinil for a reason. I could just as easily compare it to, say, viagra.
The magnitude of the useful effect has very little bearing on the prescription status of a drug, which is as much political as scientific. And the lack of physical effects does not preclude the existence of longterm psychological effects.
If marijuana ended up banned for most of the 20th century, I guarantee that an antisleep drug would be prescription only for at least the first several decades.
For one thing, thats quite an assumption.
For another, the ability to recover from death, assuming thats a chosen mechanic, doesnt actually make death any less traumatic for most people. Just like our ability to fix a fracture doesnt stop a broken bone from being a singularly unpleasant experience.
And for a third, you are making a presumption of enforced migration for Whampires to our Hell.
With no idea about their magical biology, and if there is a requirement that binds them to the material world.
Or indeed, if they want to go.
The problem, as it appears to me, is that you consider permanent social influence on the order of -1DC to be horrifying enough to deny the option of choice to adults in their right mind, and will rather point at options that you believe have a non-zero chance of death for the other party in this.
Which seems an odd set of priorities to me.
===
The problem is that despair is uniquely corrosive to the person feeding through it as an emotion.
You can justify harvesting or inflicting lust and even fear to yourself as healthy, or at least non-permanently harmful emotions to feed by. Not despair.
Respectfully?
I am having trouble with the idea that we should be okay with killing sapients in order to feed our minions but that informed use of MMP is beyond the pale.
^^^
This. I am reasonably sure that most half-Reds, for example, would rather have the option of sating their Hunger with a magic effect that ensures they neither run out of juice in combat operations nor fuck up and drain someone and damn themselves.
So would many(not all, but many) Whampires.
These are invariably adults; their various inheritances do not activate until they are old enough to make their own decisions.
Treat them like adults.
Give them the choice.
AP probably. XP no.
IIRC, you can accept a -1DC increase in difficulty in exchange for using an Alchemy or Enchantment ritual you havent actually bought. Else those Paths would be essentially unusable compared to the other linear Sorcery Paths.
Every other linear sorcery Path largely pays a one and done XP cost to go from, say,Tier 2 to Tier 3.
If a practitioner of Alchemy and Enchantment had to
A) pay XP to go from Tier 2 to Tier 3
B) pay AP to discover, research and design individual Tier 3 items/formulas/recipes
C) Pay XP for each individual item/formula/recipe/design
D) Pay money or Resources to both set up a workshop and acquire raw materials
E) Spend time to make the items or formulas in question
Well, then neither of them would be very feasible in play.
My two cents.
Goo night guys, see you tomorrow with alchemy and teacup stealth.
Feed someone enough on the charm and you will make them a CoD, that is certainly permanent so it makes sense that all its effects are as well. these particular demon maggots are the same thematically as the ones that can turn vampires and other supernaturals into fomori by specifically the process of eating them. Also there are other mildly spoiler-y reasons why it works that way that have to do with how things work in the crossover.
This was disallowed, by the way.
And yet, this is how it works. Per the explanations provided so far, we get 3 recipes for free. We can obtain new ones via in-character actions (spending AP to develop them, trading them from other practitioners, discovering them in ancient tomes of lore, etc), or by buying them with XP (probably fluffed as moments of brilliance and memories of past life). We need resourcers to make potions. It's not a straight "gold to magic" as in D&D, so there's no direct correlation of "more dots = more expensive", it's more thematic. We can combine recipes we know together, with specific rules, such as the dot rating of the resulting recipe being decided on the per-case basis.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
So what i'm hearing is we can essentially solve most of the undercity problems with a single cast of Mana Maggots? And make it into a refuge for for any strain of cursed human just as easily?
Chicago will be the safest city supernaturally within the month and we'll have an army of cursed humans freed from their hungers on a similar timescale.
Chicago will be the safest city supernaturally within the month and we'll have an army of cursed humans freed from their hungers on a similar timescale.
Note to thread: use our crown on the mana maggots.
Honestly this makes alchemy and Enchanting basically a none option. Way way to much XP 50+ to get to good stuff, and worse even more valuable AP. That is at least two 5 dot charms.
Let me rephrase; it's not a sin I care about. This isn't exactly a clean problem, so the solution won't be perfect for everyone. One person suffering social consequences is one is the lowest prices possible for this sort of thing.
Perhaps, but the influence is still there and is relevant because it's permanent.
This discussion was about near term applications of the charm. By the time we have our hell this is less of an issue.
White vamps don't get mutated that way normally per that last ruling, but I think feeding someone a magical mutagen related to the darker aspects of their spirit to fuel a pretty significant magical transformation based on the same is something it's reasonable to have reservations about.
To be perfectly clear, I don't really consider it the most horrific crime imaginable or something like that. The length of this debate isn't necessarily proportional to how awful anyone thinks it is, just how little we've managed to convince each other of anything.
What I do think is that it is a negative morally, and is a something we'll likely choke on while establishing our influence in the mortal world. This whole debate, if nothing else, should demonstrate that this sort of thing will get varied and extreme reactions even if it isn't actually an issue for the people interacting with the idea.
Temporary influence we could maybe swing, but I don't see a reasonable way to both use MMP at a level that makes it worth the exp and avoid the side effects becoming known. Nor do I think we can get out ahead of it and somehow spin it in a positive light.
I value the current and future uses of our current position over the benefits of MMP, so I'm not interested in it.
As to the specifics of the hell, I wasn't talking about forced migration. I also had no intention of forcing anyone in our eventual hell to participate. The idea itself was a little rough, and could use some refinement before implementation, but I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with arranging something like this as long as informed consent is involved and in our hell the potential consequences are significantly less of a problem.
It's not like they need to kill all the time either; it's just that the side effects don't matter as much, the worst risk can be undone, and the governance of the area would understand what was going on and be capable of policing it.
This is important in other ways too, because we need a pilot program for actual long term healthy cohabitation between vampires and mortals. We talk a big game about messing with the larger fish of the mortal world, but I'd be surprised if we could sustain the dregs of one court found in Chicago alone on MMP even if they all agree to it, much less the other courts and odder things running around.
So we will face this question again, probably in as little as an IC year, and will have to implement something else instead. A system that by necessity will need to operate at a significantly greater scale than the charm can.
It's easy to dig your heels in when in the middle of an argument, but I'm trying not to get stubborn about it purely because of the effort invested in dying on this hill.
Arguments demonstrating how this isn't actually something that will expire within a few years, how the impact of obvious mind control* can be managed without killing a nearly unique advantage for our organizational efforts, or how the ethical end of things could be managed despite the power dynamics of our relationships would shift my vote.
I just don't think anything posted so far has actually successfully refuted those concerns s much as shrugged them off.
* Or at least clearly connected in a way people can see a pattern in. Say what you want about the technical aspects of our other charms, they don't implicitly step on any IC trauma buttons for minor supernaturals.
What I do think is that it is a negative morally, and is a something we'll likely choke on while establishing our influence in the mortal world. This whole debate, if nothing else, should demonstrate that this sort of thing will get varied and extreme reactions even if it isn't actually an issue for the people interacting with the idea.
Temporary influence we could maybe swing, but I don't see a reasonable way to both use MMP at a level that makes it worth the exp and avoid the side effects becoming known. Nor do I think we can get out ahead of it and somehow spin it in a positive light.
I value the current and future uses of our current position over the benefits of MMP, so I'm not interested in it.
As to the specifics of the hell, I wasn't talking about forced migration. I also had no intention of forcing anyone in our eventual hell to participate. The idea itself was a little rough, and could use some refinement before implementation, but I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with arranging something like this as long as informed consent is involved and in our hell the potential consequences are significantly less of a problem.
It's not like they need to kill all the time either; it's just that the side effects don't matter as much, the worst risk can be undone, and the governance of the area would understand what was going on and be capable of policing it.
This is important in other ways too, because we need a pilot program for actual long term healthy cohabitation between vampires and mortals. We talk a big game about messing with the larger fish of the mortal world, but I'd be surprised if we could sustain the dregs of one court found in Chicago alone on MMP even if they all agree to it, much less the other courts and odder things running around.
So we will face this question again, probably in as little as an IC year, and will have to implement something else instead. A system that by necessity will need to operate at a significantly greater scale than the charm can.
It's easy to dig your heels in when in the middle of an argument, but I'm trying not to get stubborn about it purely because of the effort invested in dying on this hill.
Arguments demonstrating how this isn't actually something that will expire within a few years, how the impact of obvious mind control* can be managed without killing a nearly unique advantage for our organizational efforts, or how the ethical end of things could be managed despite the power dynamics of our relationships would shift my vote.
I just don't think anything posted so far has actually successfully refuted those concerns s much as shrugged them off.
* Or at least clearly connected in a way people can see a pattern in. Say what you want about the technical aspects of our other charms, they don't implicitly step on any IC trauma buttons for minor supernaturals.
Edit:
Spoilered for being obnoxiously long.
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COMMENTARY
-Well, Molly can do highway speeds now.
That is certainly going to make sneaking out of the house, or tracking people from the air, a lot easier.
-Gift of Inner Darkness OR Constructive Convergence of Principles for a magic tattoo/notVenom/notWitchblade suit.
Or even Imbued Amalgalm.
-Eh. He's a little envious? Buy him a car. A good one. Its a reasonable ask. There's literally no reason to penny pinch this, Ms I use a hundred and thirty thousand dollar Mercedes Benz CLS 219 as my daily driver. Especially since we're going to have a repeat of this for Dresden, and for Rosie after she gives birth and needs personal mobility.
A brand new Mercedes Benz C63 AMG sedan 2007 model starts in the mid-50k range, base trim. Ditto an Audi S4, a BMW 3-series and the higher trims of the F150 trucks. Say 60-kish well-specced after taxes. Assuming gas at $3 a gallon, fuel efficiency at 20mpg and 5000 miles driven each year, thats $750 a year in gas and around $1500 a year in car insurance on top of that.
Well within Molly's budget. Especially since Mathew wont need a car for another two or three years.
Stick a cyberdevil in the ECU for reduced maintenance costs and safety. Done.
He can drive it until he finishes Uni.
Just give the parents a heads up before you do so, and demand he get his full license first.
-Also worth noting that we dont want to pass any of our old vehicles down for more pragmatic reasons.
Because people might shoot at them in the assumption that Molly's inside it.
Same reason against handing down Michael's old truck when we replace it.
Daniel's a tough kid, but he cant tank bullets or spellfire.
The price for differentiation is minor by comparison.
Exalted vs World of Darkness pg 35.
Walking 7 yards a turn. Jogging 12 + (3*Dex)yards/turn. Running 20 + (3*Dex)/turn.
Turn= 3 seconds.
OldMolly base: 20 +(3*4) = 32 yards/turn = 10.7 yards/s = 21.88 mph = 35.21 km/h
OldMolly shintai: 20 +(3*8) = 44 yards/turn = 14.7 yards/s = 30.06 mph = 48.37 km/h
NewMolly boost base: [20 +(3*4)] *3 = 96 yards/turn = 32 yards/s = 65.45 mph = 105.3 km/h
NewMolly boost active: [20 +(3*4)]*10 = 320 yards/turn = 106.7 yards/s = 218.25 mph = 351.239 km/h
NewMollyShintai boost base: [20 +(3*8)]*3 = 132 yards/turn = 44 yards/s = 90 mph = 144.84 km/h
NewMollyShintai boost active: [20 +(3*8)] *10= 440 yards/turn = 146.7 yards/s = 300.06 mph = 482.89km/h
Essentially, Molly can do a 4 second mile in shintai.
Pick up Dragon Speed and Rage Recast Swift Stride, and she'll probably come in at a little under the speed of sound, somewhere in the 0.85 Mach range.
To break the speed of sound, she'll need Dex 5 and either an artifact(Perfected Boots-tier) or Conveyance Path.
Stunts.
She's exalted, its one of the fringe benefits. Its not like her makeup washes out when she goes underwater.
Given evidence of the existence of human magic artifice that doesnt require maintenance, such as Bob's skull, Demonreach, the Warden swords, Madrigal Raith's magic blocking bracelets, Ancient Mai's wardhounds, the imported Scottish castle that took the place of Dresden's current boarding house?
One of two arguments can be made:
1)The Council deliberately deemphasizes artifice.
This is supported by the fact that the RPG and Word of Jim appears to portray the Council as regarding anything more than a wizard's staff as a set of training crutches for someone who has yet to get true proficiency.
2)Harry is a baby wizard who has yet to develop the proficiency to make stuff that doesnt require maintenance.
He has only been regarded as an adult by the Council since he was 19ish, so his career is only about 12 years long.
And he doesnt appear to socialize with other wizards, much.
Possibly both.
You underestimate how big their house and property is.
The Carpenter family of 9(2 parents + 7 kids) live in a 7+ bedroom suburban house with a guest bedroom cum indoor workshop and a basement panic room, on a property with enough space for a picket fence, an outdoor garage turned outdoor workshop and a large treehouse in the backyard.
A house that size has enough space in the drive way for at least another four cars in addition to the indoor garage.
Counting Molly's Toyota Echo and Mercedes CLS-class, Charity's minivan and Michael's truck, thats four cars.
Assuming a two-car garage, there's space for at least two more.
Our need for a car has not actually decreased.
We will always need a people hauler when getting around town, because none of our other party members can fly, at least not at our speeds. Nor can any NPCs who we've got to extract.
And when we start leaving Chicago we'll probably need a different vehicle for that.
Possibly handbuilt to leverage Conveyance Path.
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Thats my point.
It takes sustained, week plus exposure for any permanent effects to stick. The problem is not that there are permanent effects, its that under this ruling they can happen because of a chance meal or drink.
But like I said, your prerogative.
And narrative generally outranks mechanics anyway.
I would appreciate Citation.
VOTE
[X] Offer to buy him a car as soon as he gets his license, you have the money and you can make more
-[X]Empathy Excellency
-[X]STUNT: You hiss melodramatically at him, clawed hands outstretched. "Its my precious. Mine! Nasty hobbitses cant have it. Gollum, Gollum." You hold the pose and a straight face for almost five seconds, then Olivia bounces an empty beer can off your head, and all of you simultaneously crack up. In a more normal voice, you continue. "Yeah well, I can drive, and according to the Illnois Secretary of State's office, you can't. Yet." Daniel makes a face at you, and you stick your tongue back out at him before continuing. "Get your license, and I'll see about buying you wheels."
RATIONALE
1)We can afford it comfortably. In cash, even.
Our current cash reserves are around $330,000; if we drop ~$60k on a mid-range luxury sedan or crew cab truck plus another $2500 on insurance and fuel, it wont materially affect our plans.
2)Our brother takes after his father in dimensions; given teenage growth patterns, at sixteen he's already well over six feet and ends up around six foot six or six foot seven in canon, same as Michael.
He's gonna need a car to accomodate his dimensions.
3)The latest safety and driver assistance features appear first in the more expensive cars and the higher end trims.
Backup cameras, nightvision features, construction features etc..
4)The Rampires in Cleveland demonstrated that the bad guys could recognize and were on the lookout for Michael's car.
We have to assume that they are doing the same for Molly's cars by now.
We dont want someone attacking one of our old cars with a sibling inside because they had out of date intelligence.
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Speaking of, we should probably make a note to set something up for housing, and go through the motions on setting up a fake job at Chicago Synthetics for her.
Once the baby is born life at her parents' house is probably going to get spicy, so we might as well get the off-ramp set up now that we have money.
Or we could get him a Beetle.
Still think we should laugh it off and do this privately later.
Teenagers get touchy about all kinds of stuff, and talking about buying him a car since he can't get one himself in front of his girlfriend and a stranger seem like the sort of thing that'd be annoying.
He's a good kid, so I don't expect it to be a problem, but we might as well avoid unnecessary problems.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I wonder if she can't be taught to feed on a different emotion more easily if the effort is made before she makes her first kill? There is an example of a Whampire in canon changing his emotion of choice from lust to fear, so we know it's possible, and that was after decades (at a minimum) of feeding on lust.
Isabella should have an easier time of it in comparison.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
On Isabella our newest despair Vampire. I will not go into MMP but these are the points to keep in mind....
1. WVamp feeding (Despair) IS damaging. It can be recovered but even a causal feeding does do damage.
2. It IS Mind control under the mechanics.
3. She needs a full humans worth of feeding.
4. She WANTS a full human's worth of feeding and was willing to KILL people for it.
5. She is her own person and not a NPC and may BETRAY us if we try and delay her awakening.
6. Our only "Hold" over her is holding her hunger at bay. Thats it. She kills someone in feeding, she becomes a regular Despair WVam and can live as one which she has no problems with.
7. She feeds on Despair, so feeding a Hungry Dead or the Nagashi, baring their hilarious power level and danger, is not going to work as we would need to cause despair to the point of Suicide if we want to let her feed on them and I do not see Molly intentionally doing that and am certainly not going to vote for that.
So yeah, we DO need to find a way to awaken her without killing people other than "Things Morally worse than Mind control"
Quoted for emphasis.
1. WVamp feeding (Despair) IS damaging. It can be recovered but even a causal feeding does do damage.
2. It IS Mind control under the mechanics.
3. She needs a full humans worth of feeding.
4. She WANTS a full human's worth of feeding and was willing to KILL people for it.
5. She is her own person and not a NPC and may BETRAY us if we try and delay her awakening.
6. Our only "Hold" over her is holding her hunger at bay. Thats it. She kills someone in feeding, she becomes a regular Despair WVam and can live as one which she has no problems with.
7. She feeds on Despair, so feeding a Hungry Dead or the Nagashi, baring their hilarious power level and danger, is not going to work as we would need to cause despair to the point of Suicide if we want to let her feed on them and I do not see Molly intentionally doing that and am certainly not going to vote for that.
So yeah, we DO need to find a way to awaken her without killing people other than "Things Morally worse than Mind control"
Quoted for emphasis.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Also to add to my previous post, a WVamp feeding causes addiction and enhances the emotion they are feeding on.
So fear and more importantly despair.
In mechanical terms this causes derangement debuff i.e a mental condition that Infernal charms are not equiped to deal with. AT ALL.
Derangement are also permanent/long term with varying consequences.
Now we go to the addictive part.
Ask yourself, why do the Fear WVamps not camp out Movie theaters?
Because of that. The addiction may not be that noticeable at first but feeding is how wVamps makes thralls like the other Courts.
This is just as much true for the other Famlies wigh the Raiths being lucky that Lust js much more acceptable.
If all it took to feed them was a rotation of volunteers the Families would have done so. So ask yourself why they are not doing this?
Why those 3 Fear WVamps were living jn a feral state in Undertown?
THAT is the magnitude of what we are facing.
So fear and more importantly despair.
In mechanical terms this causes derangement debuff i.e a mental condition that Infernal charms are not equiped to deal with. AT ALL.
Derangement are also permanent/long term with varying consequences.
Now we go to the addictive part.
Ask yourself, why do the Fear WVamps not camp out Movie theaters?
Because of that. The addiction may not be that noticeable at first but feeding is how wVamps makes thralls like the other Courts.
This is just as much true for the other Famlies wigh the Raiths being lucky that Lust js much more acceptable.
If all it took to feed them was a rotation of volunteers the Families would have done so. So ask yourself why they are not doing this?
Why those 3 Fear WVamps were living jn a feral state in Undertown?
THAT is the magnitude of what we are facing.
But hey, at least we did not take a easy option. After we are moral and just not to solve all that by imposing a mild feeling of Loyalty on them that is less mechanically damaging than DPE.
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Just setting up a trust fund and sending her off to get that psychology degree from UChicago we talked about seems a better idea IMO. Lottery is still set for January, which should provide enough margin for this.
The car is in part a mobility assistant, and in part a hard statement of intent to her family that we're serious about seeing her through not just emotionally, but financially. The monetary costs of raising a child alone are significant, and someone has to cover the financial costs for shit like ~$13,000 average normal vaginal delivery costs($17,000 cesarean), $2000/month daycare etc.
Honestly, she's got a better margin of safety living behind a family-grade threshold than living alone.
Both for magic safety reasons, and as a new single mother who can use as much of a physical and emotional support network as she can get. If the trade-off is some friction, we'll figure it out.
Or we will talk to her aunt, the one we thought was likely to take her in.
Though to be fair, the vibes Im getting, even filtered through Molly's jaundiced view, is more misunderstanding and concern than malice. Even from the stepdad.
Because with Rosie as a legal adult of 18, they were under no obligation to take her back in.
Or to go to the trouble of making sure her educational records were in order for her to graduate instead of being a high school dropout or trying to negotiate an additional year of high school while pregnant.
Lol.
God, a classic Beetle as a daily driver is essentially a death trap.
I have no idea how Dresden survived driving that car for more than a decade with everyone who tried to kill him inside it.
Especially given that he's six feet nine inches tall.
Once we get enough cash in 2007, Im voting for stuffing him into a warded Lexus or a Yukon as a daily driver.
At least that should have legroom. And poor Mouse will actually be able to ride.
🤷
He's 16. Nobody expects a 16 year old to buy their own car, not the 16 year old themself, and not their friends or peers. I dont really expect it to be an issue; other 16 year olds are either driving their parents cars at best, or have an inheritance, which amounts to much the same thing.
And like you said, he's a good kid. And we're supposed to be close.
We've literally used him as a courier to Lydia with 50 kay worth of synthetic diamonds.
So its not like he doesnt know that Lydia is aware of some of our finances.
I dont really think its something to worry about.
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