Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Find people willing to donate life force, and facilitate feeding in a way minimizes harm.

Everything else is just details. Maybe we do big distrusted feeding events like the horror movies thing. Maybe we invent some magi tech device that can store life energy and have people donate to that.
I GREATLY disagree.

Committed (Cost: 2 points): The inhabitants of the Realm treat you as an object of worship and will endure great hardship on your behalf.
Fanatical (Cost: 3 points): The inhabitants of the Realm will die for you.

These are not the kind of people you would ask to be fed upon by Vampires as there is very much a non-zero chance of harm being committed.

My Moral objection here is that they would not refuse because, surprise, surprise, the DC to ask them that would be greatly reduced due to their feelings towards Molly.

SO the irony here is that King and Kingdon has the same but MUCH more pronounced mechanical effect as compared to MMP and is just as permanent.

I genuinely do not understand the Moral outrage for MMP but not DPE or this.
What other minions are you worried about right now exactly?
For examply, any Hungry Dead we pick up that we need to feed live Human flesh to?

There are a bunch of Akuma that want to jump ship.
Yeah, I think we are arguing in circles now so I put my previous post in spoilers but I feel it is better if we stop. I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me so let us agree to disagree.
 
I GREATLY disagree.

Committed (Cost: 2 points): The inhabitants of the Realm treat you as an object of worship and will endure great hardship on your behalf.
Fanatical (Cost: 3 points): The inhabitants of the Realm will die for you.

These are not the kind of people you would ask to be fed upon by Vampires as there is very much a non-zero chance of harm being committed.

My Moral objection here is that they would not refuse because, surprise, surprise, the DC to ask them that would be greatly reduced due to their feelings towards Molly.

SO the irony here is that King and Kingdon has the same but MUCH more pronounced mechanical effect as compared to MMP and is just as permanent.

I genuinely do not understand the Moral outrage for MMP but not DPE or this.
I'll note that I never said using people in our realm. What I suggested is perfectly achievable just using the population of Chicago. Thomas did so successfully for a while after all. And MiS makes it way easier.

You are right, I do agree that there may be ethical concerns about what we ask residents of our realm to do. Which is why we don't need to.
 
I GREATLY disagree.

Committed (Cost: 2 points): The inhabitants of the Realm treat you as an object of worship and will endure great hardship on your behalf.
Fanatical (Cost: 3 points): The inhabitants of the Realm will die for you.

These are not the kind of people you would ask to be fed upon by Vampires as there is very much a non-zero chance of harm being committed.

My Moral objection here is that they would not refuse because, surprise, surprise, the DC to ask them that would be greatly reduced due to their feelings towards Molly.

SO the irony here is that King and Kingdon has the same but MUCH more pronounced mechanical effect as compared to MMP and is just as permanent.

I genuinely do not understand the Moral outrage for MMP but not DPE or this.

For examply, any Hungry Dead we pick up that we need to feed live Human flesh to?

There are a bunch of Akuma that want to jump ship.
Yeah, I think we are arguing in circles now so I put my previous post in spoilers but I feel it is better if we stop. I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me so let us agree to disagree.

Sure, or at least I'll stop pinging you about it.
 
[X] BronzeTongue

[X] JayTar

[X] Say goodbye
-[X] Offer training and equipment instead
-[X] STUNT: "Believe me. I know the feeling. I really do. I grew up with it, even. I won't provide a magical immediate solution right now, not when you are so angry and not thinking clearly. What I will provide, however, are the means. I'll talk to some people, arrange training in how to fight, provide equipment if you want it. And if, by Christmas, you still want to keep fighting, we'll discuss the topic again. I might have something by that time".
 
[X] BronzeTongue

[X] JayTar

[X] Say goodbye
-[X] Offer training and equipment instead
-[X] STUNT: "Believe me. I know the feeling. I really do. I grew up with it, even. I won't provide a magical immediate solution right now, not when you are so angry and not thinking clearly. What I will provide, however, are the means. I'll talk to some people, arrange training in how to fight, provide equipment if you want it. And if, by Christmas, you still want to keep fighting, we'll discuss the topic again. I might have something by that time".
 
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Our starving Dispair vampire is kinda an immediate problem. Ethically inducing dispair is very tricky. And that Minion is the one most likely to just flip us off and kill someone if we can't provide a solution.
 
I'll note that I never said using people in our realm. What I suggested is perfectly achievable just using the population of Chicago. Thomas did so successfully for a while after all. And MiS makes it way easier.

You are right, I do agree that there may be ethical concerns about what we ask residents of our realm to do. Which is why we don't need to.
I think you're greatly underestimating the agency of other people here, and assuming only the worst possible implementation.

If we give the vampires license to make their pitch under some guiding rules and then have them do it themselves in clearly defined and easily avoided areas then the degree to which our influence unduly contaminates the situation is limited.

We aren't going to get a perfect solution here, so some allowances have to be made.

This is accounting for MMP; the more we succeed the more people we will have, I wouldn't be surprised if we have break the 200-300 cap of various creatures by the time we're a middle sized fish on the Chicago scene.
Our starving Dispair vampire is kinda an immediate problem. Ethically inducing dispair is very tricky. And that Minion is the one most likely to just flip us off and kill someone if we can't provide a solution.
Get him some tutoring asap, that's pretty much a requirement. With MiS they can stay on ice for a while as long as they don't spend power on stuff.
 
Our starving Dispair vampire is kinda an immediate problem. Ethically inducing dispair is very tricky. And that Minion is the one most likely to just flip us off and kill someone if we can't provide a solution.
They may also do that if the "Solution" we offer them includes in-built loyalty programming.

In the very worst case we can just have them tag along to a fight or two to demoralize our enemies.
 
Our starving Dispair vampire is kinda an immediate problem. Ethically inducing dispair is very tricky. And that Minion is the one most likely to just flip us off and kill someone if we can't provide a solution.
Isabella is young enough to easily blend in at a university library setting. All we need is to have her setup shop around stressed out college students when tests, mid-terms, finals, etc., are approaching. Plenty of despair to slurp up floating around in those instances. She could also crash funerals, hang out in oncology wards, children's hospitals, etc. When the despair is thick in the air and there are numerous nearby sources, she shouldn't have much trouble skimming a bit off the top just like Thomas does.
 
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Feb 15, 2023 at 8:44 PM, finished with 338 posts and 38 votes.

  • [X] Plan Authority is Asskicking
    -[x] Molly: 27xp
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Plan Authority Doesn't Need Mind Control.
    -[x] Molly: 29 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    -[X] Etiquette 5: 4xp
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Say goodbye
    -[X] Offer training and equipment instead
    -[X] STUNT: "Believe me. I know the feeling. I really do. I grew up with it, even. I won't provide a magical immediate solution right now, not when you are so angry and not thinking clearly. What I will provide, however, are the means. I'll talk to some people, arrange training in how to fight, provide equipment if you want it. And if, by Christmas, you still want to keep fighting, we'll discuss the topic again. I might have something by that time".
    [X] Plan Duck Out
    -[x] Molly: 29 XP
    --[X]Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    --[X] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    —[x] Bloodless Murk Evasion 9 XP
    —[X] Running to Forever 4 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    --[X]Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Plan Court and War of an Alchemist
    -[x] Molly: 25 xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp (25% of Molly's, rounded down 29 / 4 = 7.25 = 7) + 5 xp = 12 xp
    -[x] Hunter's Bolt: 6 XP
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    [X] Plan Cross Eyed Look
    -[X]Molly: 28xp
    --[X]Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    --[X] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    --[x] Sinner-Boiling Stare 12 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7 XP + 2 XP (25% of Molly's + 2)
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    —[x] Righteous Lion Defense 3 XP
    [X]Plan Castle Doctrine
    -[X]Molly: 28xp
    --[X]Hellscry Chakra: 8xp
    --[X]Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X]Etiquette 5: 4xp
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[X]Lydia: 8xp (7 base + 1 from Molly)
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    --[X]Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Plan Alchemy and minions.
    -[X] Molly
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    --[X] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    ---[X] • Speed-Healing: a "potion" that halves healing time for bashing and lethal damage.
    ---[X] •• Enhance Ability: an elixir that can enhance a specific ability in a person who drinks it. The drinker gains a specialty in that ability for the duration (or +2 dice when it is relevant if they already have one) for one hour per success on the creation.
    -[X] Lydia, 11 XP: 7 XP gained, 8 XP spent (7 +1 from main pool)
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Occult 2, 2 XP
    [X] Yes Minions, No Mind Control
    [X] Plan Authority Doesn't Need Mind Control. (With Running to Forever)
    -[x] Molly: 29 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    -[X] Running to forever 4 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp
    [x] Make the offer (Must take Inner Devils Unchained Cost 12 XP)
    [X] Say goodbye
    [X] Plan Alchemy and minions.
    -[X] Molly
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    --[X] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    -[X] Lydia, 11 XP: 7 XP gained, 8 XP spent (7 +1 from main pool)
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Occult 2, 2 XP
    [X]Plan Minion power!
    -[X]Molly 32
    -[X]Inner Devils Unchained Cost 12 XP
    -[x] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[X] Running to forever 4 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[X]Authority of the Psychomp: 3xp
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    [X] Plan Court and War
    -[x] Molly: 24 xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp (25% of Molly's, rounded down 29 / 4 = 7.25 = 7) + 5 xp = 12 xp
    -[x] Hunter's Bolt: 6 XP
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    [X] Yes Minions, No Mind Control
    -[x] Make the Offer
    -[x] Inner Devils Unchained: 12xp
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Yes Minions, No Mind Control
    -[x] Make the Offer
    -[x] Inner Devils Unchained: 12xp
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    [x] Wind-Born Stride: 8 xp
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp


Neck and neck as things are.
 
Well, I did include Etiquette 5 from their plan....

And while I'm not sure it we should be taking it this exp vote, it will come in handy in our meeting with Mab. And possibly other encounters prior.
 
Isabella is young enough to easily blend in at a university library setting. All we need is to have her setup shop around stressed out college students when tests, mid-terms, finals, etc., are approaching. Plenty of despair to slurp up floating around in those instances. She could also crash funerals, hang out in oncology wards, children's hospitals, etc. When the despair is thick in the air and there are numerous nearby sources, she shouldn't have much trouble skimming a bit off the top just like Thomas does.
Even when Thomas sips he still inspires a little bit the the emotion. The difference is that a little lust isn't really a problem a little despair is.
 
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Also her hunger is not fully awakened. Meaning feeding would be fatal at first. Even our charm will not stop that.
 
It does though? I thought MiS totally negates the issue so long as it is active? Perfect control over her hunger.
No Dragonparadox ruled on that. I think. The quote is a while back but the glist is ghat her hunger will not be satisfied and she can only safely feed once she has drained a human worth of energy at one go.
 
No Dragonparadox ruled on that. I think. The quote is a while back but the glist is ghat her hunger will not be satisfied and she can only safely feed once she has drained a human worth of energy at one go.
I thought that only applied to her when she is not under the effects of MiS? Ie, her choice being that she can either work with us to stay under MiS, or she can find someone to kill.

Anyway, even if she does need to find someone to kill, that is not the hardest condition for us to satisfy. I expect we will have to kill at least one person before the Lady Eiko situation has been resolved.
 
.....you have no problem of letting her mind rape a enemy to death? It is not a good way to go as it literally flays a person's mind before they die.
 
.....you have no problem of letting her mind rape a enemy to death? It is not a good way to go as it literally flays a person's mind before they die.
...Compared to us currently taking Murder is Meat which flays their spirit?

I'm not saying it would be a good solution, but it could be the least bad, if we can't find any others. And I think there are others. Unless I am misremembering things are stable with just MiS.
 
...Compared to us currently taking Murder is Meat which flays their spirit?

I'm not saying it would be a good solution, but it could be the least bad, if we can't find any others. And I think there are others. Unless I am misremembering things are stable with just MiS.
Only works on immortals that respasn IF we want to kill ghem. Otherwise they get sent to our hell. Or go to hell.
 
Votes are still tied.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Feb 15, 2023 at 11:45 PM, finished with 353 posts and 39 votes.

  • [X] Plan Authority is Asskicking
    -[x] Molly: 27xp
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Plan Authority Doesn't Need Mind Control.
    -[x] Molly: 29 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    -[X] Etiquette 5: 4xp
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Say goodbye
    -[X] Offer training and equipment instead
    -[X] STUNT: "Believe me. I know the feeling. I really do. I grew up with it, even. I won't provide a magical immediate solution right now, not when you are so angry and not thinking clearly. What I will provide, however, are the means. I'll talk to some people, arrange training in how to fight, provide equipment if you want it. And if, by Christmas, you still want to keep fighting, we'll discuss the topic again. I might have something by that time".
    [X] Plan Duck Out
    -[x] Molly: 29 XP
    --[X]Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    --[X] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    —[x] Bloodless Murk Evasion 9 XP
    —[X] Running to Forever 4 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    --[X]Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Plan Court and War of an Alchemist
    -[x] Molly: 25 xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp (25% of Molly's, rounded down 29 / 4 = 7.25 = 7) + 5 xp = 12 xp
    -[x] Hunter's Bolt: 6 XP
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    [X] Plan Cross Eyed Look
    -[X]Molly: 28xp
    --[X]Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    --[X] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    --[x] Sinner-Boiling Stare 12 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7 XP + 2 XP (25% of Molly's + 2)
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    —[x] Righteous Lion Defense 3 XP
    [X]Plan Castle Doctrine
    -[X]Molly: 28xp
    --[X]Hellscry Chakra: 8xp
    --[X]Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X]Etiquette 5: 4xp
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[X]Lydia: 8xp (7 base + 1 from Molly)
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    --[X]Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Plan Alchemy and minions.
    -[X] Molly
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    --[X] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    ---[X] • Speed-Healing: a "potion" that halves healing time for bashing and lethal damage.
    ---[X] •• Enhance Ability: an elixir that can enhance a specific ability in a person who drinks it. The drinker gains a specialty in that ability for the duration (or +2 dice when it is relevant if they already have one) for one hour per success on the creation.
    -[X] Lydia, 11 XP: 7 XP gained, 8 XP spent (7 +1 from main pool)
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Occult 2, 2 XP
    [X] Yes Minions, No Mind Control
    [X] Plan Authority Doesn't Need Mind Control. (With Running to Forever)
    -[x] Molly: 29 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    -[X] Running to forever 4 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp
    [x] Make the offer (Must take Inner Devils Unchained Cost 12 XP)
    [X] Say goodbye
    [X] Plan Alchemy and minions.
    -[X] Molly
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    --[X] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    --[X] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 2 dots, 6XP:
    -[X] Lydia, 11 XP: 7 XP gained, 8 XP spent (7 +1 from main pool)
    --[X] Authority of the Psychopomp, 3 XP
    --[X] Command the Dead, 3 XP
    --[X] Occult 2, 2 XP
    [X]Plan Minion power!
    -[X]Molly 32
    -[X]Inner Devils Unchained Cost 12 XP
    -[x] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[X] Running to forever 4 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[X]Authority of the Psychomp: 3xp
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    [X] Plan Court and War
    -[x] Molly: 24 xp
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp (25% of Molly's, rounded down 29 / 4 = 7.25 = 7) + 5 xp = 12 xp
    -[x] Hunter's Bolt: 6 XP
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    [X] Yes Minions, No Mind Control
    -[x] Make the Offer
    -[x] Inner Devils Unchained: 12xp
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    -[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp
    [X] Yes Minions, No Mind Control
    -[x] Make the Offer
    -[x] Inner Devils Unchained: 12xp
    -[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
    [x] Wind-Born Stride: 8 xp
    -[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
    -[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
    -[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
    -[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
    -[x] Alertness 2: 2xp
 
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