Exigernts are both dumb from a lore stand point, why would you not use those shards to make more Celestial, or DragonBlood. And also explicitly kill the god, only the Incarna forged by the power of the primordials can withstand empowering exaltation's. And even they took a permanent hit to their power. Creation did not have sunsets or night before the Solar's where created. One of Luna's lesser purposes was to eclipse the sun, because creation could not handle UCS full time.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Since we have vegan necromancy from Lydia we could also try getting the ghost of Jean Baptiste to participate.
If we take that approach, and especially if we try to align the ritual to our hell, then Halloween would work better. It's when the walls are thinnest to the spirit realm, when mantles are allowed to die, and when the dead are closest to the living.
I just think that exaltation should be something more significant than this sort of thing. Exigents as a concept already directly screwed with the lore and create plot holes in the setting* and Dresden Files is lower power than that.
I'd also call mantles limiting in the same way power armor is limited compared to being a pure software strong AI. It's making to better than you were, and it's not nothing just because it doesn't make you into a techno god.
Which also only applies to a subset of mantles anyway, since many of them actually do make you into a something close to as strong as you can get without breaking physics just walking around. These probably wouldn't, but it's worth noting about the category.
Modeling them as exigent types is one thing, but cranking out true blue exaltations with all the background benefits that implies should be nearly impossible for things to continue making sense.
And as an aside, exigents did permanently weaken the source god. It's part of the explanation for why most gods wouldn't have many even if they had ages to recover and acquire more materials from up the chain.
* The primordials lost because the gods weren't capable of telling the exalts what to do, or making any for their masters without Autochthon. If they could, then why didn't the primordials a counter army of the same capabilities but grander in scope?
At least in 3e that's wrong:
In principle I agree, and feel mostly the same.
I was talking from in-story perspective:
Yeah, that's a reasonable question. If forced to answer about that, I would guess that exigents only became possible after the Primordial War, possibly through something that Autochton passed onto Sol after their victory.
- Location
- Norway
It varies. Some gods extinguish themselves entirely to fuel the Exigence. Others may be permanently wounded or temporarily wounded. (Ex3 page 26.) Exalted 3e leaned a bit into rules varying as the plot demands.
Because you can't. Making Celestials originally required Autochthon's involvement. Making the Dragon-Blooded required Gaia's involvement, and they already reproduce themselves.
Nope.
The plot is getting retconned and changed significantly in 3e. Repeatedly.
One version said the Primordials didn't want to suffer from the Law of Diminishment (I think this was when Exigence was guaranteed to permanently cripple the making god), another version said that Sol, Autobot and friends kept the Exaltation creation process a secret from the Primordials, a third says that Exigence involves the Unconquered Sun specifically for some reason.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] Yes
-[X] Empathy excellency
-[X] So, time, plus on call, plus expertise? Ballpark a rough sum. Something like 1k? Or services rendered. Want your consolation on his car, or perhaps a portable phone? You could get a Noika cellphone and make it so durable he could use it as a bludgeon.
-[X][stunt]Be completely matter of fact as if the idea that he might refuse payment makes no sense to you. If that doesn't work ask him if he enjoys keeping people indebted to him. Maybe his fairy godmother was a bad influence.
Or
[X] No, you will find some other way to make it up to him later
-[x] Maybe you can slip Murphy a 5 thousand and get her to give it to Dresden as a bonus? He doesn't seem to mind accepting tax money.
-[X] Empathy excellency
-[X] So, time, plus on call, plus expertise? Ballpark a rough sum. Something like 1k? Or services rendered. Want your consolation on his car, or perhaps a portable phone? You could get a Noika cellphone and make it so durable he could use it as a bludgeon.
-[X][stunt]Be completely matter of fact as if the idea that he might refuse payment makes no sense to you. If that doesn't work ask him if he enjoys keeping people indebted to him. Maybe his fairy godmother was a bad influence.
Or
[X] No, you will find some other way to make it up to him later
-[x] Maybe you can slip Murphy a 5 thousand and get her to give it to Dresden as a bonus? He doesn't seem to mind accepting tax money.
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In story not all mantles are the same, and not all people find the limits unpalatable.
As an extreme example, if the Kemmlerite ritual had worked the mantle would basically have been tailored to the necromancer who cast it. They'd be "required" to act as they already felt like acting.
A lesser case can be seen in the winter and summer knights, who have impulses but can choose to resist if they put their minds to it.
Or the limits can themselves be acceptable to the person taking them on in exchange for the power, as we saw with Matthews. I think a metropolitan mantle would probably weigh pretty lightly on a mortal's shoulders simply because it's made out of the essence of mortal life.
That's possible, but kind of weird considering how part of Autochthon's issue towards the end of the war was concern about the exalted and what they'd do. Something that eventually lead him to flee creation and stay out in the wyld to die.
Setting aside the issues still introduced by the exalted having the ability to manufacture custom exalts from the end of the war, but it never really coming up until way later in the timeline, why would he do that?
Most of those retcons seem incredibly dumb, and primarily oriented around the desire to allow for custom exalts to exist for gameplay purposes even though it contradicted everything else.The plot is getting retconned and changed significantly in 3e. Repeatedly.
Those last two don't even make sense. The point of exalts was that the gods couldn't refuse direct commands and had something like the three laws of robotics installed to keep them compliant to the primordials' rule.
The idea, as I understand it, was that humans were the largest single entities that the primordials felt were too weak to be worth the effort.
UC couldn't keep secrets or refuse a command to make more or cough up information if he knew it. Changing that would change how the entire war was fought.
That's honestly cruel. Great bargaining tactic, though.
Since Molly now knows about that IC, here's a bit more Usum wisdom: They would be required to act as they wanted to at the moment they took it on, eternity is a long time for even monsters to if not grow a conscience than at least grow bored.
Judge that as you will.
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That's fair, I was mostly trying to point out that there's a spectrum here.Since Molly now knows about that IC, here's a bit more Usum wisdom: They would be required to act as they wanted to at the moment they took it on, eternity is a long time for ever monsters to if not grow a conscience than at least grow bored.
Judge that as you will.
Well, I'm convinced. Time to buy the crafting charm and start setting things up to create a city god.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
[X] Yes
-[X] Offer Harry $3,000 for his consulting services, a thousand per day of his time invested in helping you. Do not take no for an answer. If necessary, explain that you feel disrespected and treated as a child when Harry refuses our attempts to fairly compensate him for his assistance. He is providing a valuable service and very rare skill set on short notice, the least he can do is act like he values himself as much as we value his contributions.
-[X] Offer Harry $3,000 for his consulting services, a thousand per day of his time invested in helping you. Do not take no for an answer. If necessary, explain that you feel disrespected and treated as a child when Harry refuses our attempts to fairly compensate him for his assistance. He is providing a valuable service and very rare skill set on short notice, the least he can do is act like he values himself as much as we value his contributions.
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Its a game mechanic in both vanilla Ex2 and ExWoD.
ExWoD goes as far as making it an explicit feature that your Familiars can get killed but resurrect from your aura automatically, essentially giving them immortality as long as the Exalt is alive.
Not pulls out, begins to draw one from memory.
Then Molly finishes it.
Cold Days c28.
Nope.
Explicitly a fuckton in the Greater Lakes region, not just Chicago. Chicago alone has at least half a dozen within easy travelling distance. I quote:
They arent rare in this geographical area.Cold Days c28 said:
Just this one, and the one on Demonreach count as two, and there's at least another half a dozen within easy roundtrip distance for the Little Folk.
This is one of those occasions when you're doing too much, and not considering the implications.
Mouse is a sapient being. Magic principles of sympathy and cosanguinity suggest that using his essence to make little gods would either make them count as his children, with all the ethical issues thereof, or serve as arcane links to strike at Mouse and everyone descended from him.Possibly both.
[X] Yes
-[X] Offer Harry $3,000 for his consulting services, a thousand per day of his time invested in helping you. Do not take no for an answer. If necessary, explain that you feel disrespected and treated as a child when Harry refuses our attempts to fairly compensate him for his assistance. He is providing a valuable service and very rare skill set on short notice, the least he can do is act like he values himself as much as we value his contributions.
-[X] Offer Harry $3,000 for his consulting services, a thousand per day of his time invested in helping you. Do not take no for an answer. If necessary, explain that you feel disrespected and treated as a child when Harry refuses our attempts to fairly compensate him for his assistance. He is providing a valuable service and very rare skill set on short notice, the least he can do is act like he values himself as much as we value his contributions.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Just corrected an auto-corrupt mistake in my plan that you might want to copy to avoid confusing the tally.
Skynet the Kindle strikes again.
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If so, we would likely be able to buy a familiar at a great XP discount to bind an existent animal into being one, compared to conjuring one ex-nihilo with an XP spending.
Yes, Chicago is special. I still doubt all of those are full and proper Dragon Nests, or that all Dragon Nests are created equal. From WoD side, control of even a single Dragon Nest is supposed to be a major strategic advantage. Yes, Dresdenverse is a "higher energy" universe, but those still shouldn't be commonplace (even if it makes an E3 charm very situationally useful for its main application).
No, I actually thought this out in detail. You are underestimating my ambition, you see. For it is not his children that I aim to create. It is his divine ancestors I want to recreate. I desire to forge Celestial Lions.
And no, I don't agree that making little gods based on Mouse's species would make them count as his children. There might be some arcane link there, yes. I wasn't planning to just grab his fur and run. This would obviously be done with consent.
As to "it can be used to strike at him". Possibly. Maybe. The rituals that aim at ancestors / descendants is a major working. Discarding the tangible benefits for fringe possible risks is where we always differ, so I won't even try to convince you.
EDIT: I will point out that it's likely Mouse who will be the weak arcane link, not the other way around.
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Honestly aginst awaking the city god of Chicago, the place has been run into the ground hard. At best we would get a broken god.
- Location
- Germany
There's still people living there, good folk and not so good.
A bit of abandoned industry and impoverished neighbourhoods would flavor the spirit, but certainly not leave it crippled.
Worth keeping in mind Molly is an infernal, heir not of the Primordials whole and hale in the glory of their craft, but of the Yozis, broken, chained yet still great and terrible with the potential for rebirth in them. She has a certain affinity for broken things.
If you only want to work with unblemished materials than I have some bad news about your Exaltation.
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It has, and that's why it's perfect to be Molly's first little slice of hell on Earth.
Then, as she redeems it with her infernal majesty, she can build her new Jerusalem's, her shining city on the lake.
The fact that it shines with green balefire reflected in the chrome and glass of the skyscrapers of a wicked city is neither here nor there.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
They likely are a major strategic advantage in Europe. All the dragon nests there have likely been built up and claimed by various organizations for generations now. Meaning that all knowledge about dragon nests in Europe are carefully guarded secrets.
But then Europe invaded the U.S. and decimated the local native magical traditions. And given that all groups that understood dragon nests were not inclined to move the invaders didn't do anything with or even notice the dragon nests leaving them unclaimed with no infrastructure giving them particular purpose.
Under this interpretation the area of mount Rushmore is certainly a major magical nexus which explains part of why the indians really really want it back and will accept no money for it.
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It's a major first world city, and a, if not THE major magical focus point of the center of the universe that is Earth. the City god of Chicago would be a powerful, if imperfect, being. We won't be forging Sol Invictus, but it would still be a great being.
At some point we should visit Detroit.
My argument was that if typical Dragon Nest density was "one every ten or so miles", they wouldn't be some deep lore or a strategic advantage. They would be a commonplace occurrence, and every wizard who was anyone would have been living on top of a Nest of their own. No, either they are useless to most magical beings, with only a true essence user (some elementals, gods, and exalted, basically) being able to use them, or they are much, much rarer than that.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Do you realize just how small Europe is land wise compared to America? If great Britain has multiple nexuses then basically every American state should have a few. Most states of America are the size of countries in Europe.
Also Dresden could totally have decided to live on a nexus, but he seems to lack the knowledge of how to build on one and he is the Warden commander of North America. Mostly in America it seems like it's mostly the knowledge of how to use Nexuses is lacking which isn't helped by the fact that using them wrong blows you up.
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In WoD, Nodes are of variable strength. For ExWoD that got simplified into binary "is this a node, Y/N?" but it isn't true in Mage or Werewolf.
Anyway, DF side magicals definitively can use the Nodes.
On a mildly related note, if we really do have like a dozen of Dragon Nests in the vicinity of Chicago, we probably try shooting for E6 by simply taking control of all that energy. With a major geomantic working we might be able to create an environment of essence density suitable for Elder Essence ascension.
List me under "This is interesting, but IDK when we'll actually get to it" camp.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Taking over Demonreach and turning a fraction of the prisoners into our thralls would also likely be enough. I think there was something like 6 Naggs there in minimum security. Throwing 6 Naggs into a Maggot pit and giving them a few extra bindings would likely be very helpful to our overall power even at essence 5.
On the topic of Harry's current case any idea what that might be? Now obviously Molly could figure it out about instantly by using her crown on a few bodies, but Harry Dresden of course is keeping the knowledge away from us to protect us'. If we knew about the case offering to use the crown on those body would be a fair way to pay him back.
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