Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[uju32]

Damn, that was a good catch, dude. Assuming it was a Chi Vampire of some sort, is that how their feeding regularly works? It sucks the life out of a victim, all of the victim, including gut flora and other residents? I bet those corpses take a very long time to begin decomposing.

Click to shrink...

As I recall?
Word of Jim is that Dresdenverse Jade Court vampires feed on breath, and can kill you from across the street.

In World of Darkness, the Wan Kuei/Kuei-Jin always feed on chi, but HOW they get that chi differs depending on their age and enlightenment and personal power. The youngest, freshly risen, must feed on human flesh. Older ones feed on blood. Elders feed on breath. Methuselah-equivalents feed on environmental chi.

An older vampire can still, if they choose, feed using the methods of their juniors.
But juniors cant feed with the methods of their elders.

So if I'm right, we're either looking at a shen, or a Jade Court elder.
And one thats probably deliberately killing those people, since unlike the youngest, they have the control to can feed without doing harm to people if they so choose.

1. On the Frederick the Second reference Adam was implying Dresden should take over the city with fire and sword so he can be a proper Warden of Chicago
2. Good catch on the TLF, but in this case there isn't a tier of understanding above 'I could make a city god with this'

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Well good for you Adam. Much better education than I assumed.
Even if you are still predictably minded.

 

[Yog]

Oh? I am having a derp moment, give me the name.Yeah I see it, lol.

Still, I don't have the Mage or Werewolf books on hand rn, so if someone could go into a little bit more details on how all that stuff works and what we could reasonably expect from, idk, Porter's Node, that would be cool.

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Awakened Eye of the Dragon:

This hour-long ritual awakens the spiritual Essence
of a Dragon Nest and grants its blessing to the Exalt
and her companions for one full cycle of the moon.
System: Spend 5 Essence to begin the ritual, and
roll Wits + Occult (difficulty 7) to contest with the spir-
it of the Dragon Nest. It is otherwise identical to the
Rite of the Opened Caern (see Werewolf 20 th Anniver-
sary edition, p. 206).

Click to shrink...

Rite of the Opened Caern:

Level One
Each caern has a specific power associated with it,
generally of a beneficial nature. Thus, there are caerns of
Rage, caerns of Gnosis, Strength, Enigmas, and so on. If a
character is knowledgeable enough, she may tap into the
caern's power and use it herself. Doing so is commonly
known as "opening" a caern. Such a feat shouldn't be
attempted lightly — Gaia's sacred places don't give up
their power easily, and failure to harness such power can
seriously harm the Garou.
Each caern has its own requirements of the ritemas-
ter. In order to open a caern of Enigmas, a Garou might
walk a spiral path while calling out the Greek myth of
Persephone; to open a caern of Rage, the Garou might
change into Crinos and chant the litany of his ancestors
who have fallen in battle against the Wyrm. The key is
forging a connection to the particular spirit of the caern.
System: To open a caern, the character engages in
a resisted, extended test of Wits + Rituals (difficulty 7)
against the caern's spirit, seeking to gain a number of suc-
cesses equal to the caern's level. The caern spirit uses the
caern's level as its dice pool (difficulty of the ritemaster's
Gnosis), seeking to gain (Ritemaster's Willpower) suc-
cesses. The first party to reach their target number of
successes triumphs.
If the character wins the test, she can add the caern's
rating to her dice pool when performing actions appropriate
to the caern's focus. If she loses, she takes lethal damage
equal to the number of successes by which the caern beat
her; a botch makes this damage aggravated.
See page 310 for a list of caern types, their powers,
and the spirits that can be encountered near them.

Click to shrink...

Caern types and powers they grant:

Spoiler: Caern types and powers

Type	Power	Spirits Encountered
All	Open Moon Bridge*
Enigmas	Enigmas Ability	Illusion, Shadow, Chameleon-spirit
Gnosis	Gnosis points	Engling, Ghost
Healing	Health Levels	Peace, Calm, Water elemental
Leadership	Leadership, Intimidation	War, Bird-spirit
Rage	Rage points	War, Pain
Stamina	Soak dice	Protection, Guardian, Turtle-spirit
Strength	Strength attribute	War
Urban	Streetwise	City Elemental
Visions	Oracular Visions	Bird-spirit
Will	Willpower points	War, Ancestor-spirit
Wisdom	Rituals, Expression	Owl-spirit, Ancestor-spirit
Wyld	Anything	Wyldling

Power: One point/level/die is gained per success on the Rite of the Opened Caern.
Spirits Encountered: These are the spirits most often encountered near this type of caern. How-
ever, there's no guarantee they'll be there. Other spirits may appear at the Storyteller's discretion.
* Only if the caern has completed a Rite of the Opened Bridge to a destination for that Moon Bridge.

Rite of the Opened Bridge

Spoiler

Level Four
This rite creates a moon bridge, a shimmering portal
serving as a mystical means of transportation between
two caerns. Such moon bridges are vital links among the
sacred spaces of Gaia. Once per year, a caern must renew
its connection with other caerns to which it wishes to
maintain moon bridges. This rite is always held during
a moot, and it must be enacted simultaneously by both
participating caerns.
The primary requirement to open a moon bridge is a
pathstone. Pathstones are found in the Umbra, and they
are often the objects of quests. These extraordinarily rare
stones resemble flat pearls with the imprint of a wolf's
paw on one side. It is possible to steal a pathstone from a
caern, but such a theft is considered blasphemous, and it
may well result in war between two septs.
The rite establishes (or reestablishes) a spiritual con-
nection between the pathstones of two separate caerns
by way of the caerns' totem spirits. At the rite's culmina-
tion, a moon bridge opens between the two participating
caerns. During this time, Garou from both septs can travel
between the caerns to join in a wild revel. Moon bridges
allow Garou to traverse distances in 1/1000 th the normal
time required. This rite must be renewed once every 13
moons (roughly a year).
System: The roll is Wits + Enigmas (difficulty 8 minus
the level of the ritemaster's caern). If the ritemaster's pack
totem is the same as the totem of the caern, she receives a
bonus of three dice to the roll. If the rite was unsuccessful
previously, the difficulty level of the rite increases by one.
The ritemaster needs to obtain a number of successes equal
to the target caern's level to complete the rite.
If the rite succeeds, the moon bridge opens imme-
diately, and the spirit-bond between the two pathstones
is established. Moon bridges may now be opened at any
time between the two caerns. The bridges may be opened
with the Rite of the Opened Caern or the Ragabash Gift:
Open Moon Bridge (if performed at the caern). If the rite
fails, no moon bridge opens, and the rite must be tried
again next year. Moon bridges to the caern may still be
opened, but they aren't as safe as they might be.
See page 311 for moon bridge distances.

So, essentially, for the Dragon Nest we have access to, we'll be getting streetwise bonuses equal to the number os successes on Wits + occult against base difficulty 7 contested by Porter (if it wants to contest the roll, I guess). So, essentially, +10 Streetwise dice for a month. And maybe we'll be able to make ways / teleport between Dragon Nests

And of course, there's also the fact that a city god of a major city would be a key target for a lot of people to attempt to subvert.
What precisely prevents someone else trying to eat a god for a powerup like they tried with Arwan? Or Nicodemus from attempting to do to a city god what he tried to do to the Archive? Or worse, Nemesis having a go?

If your god doesnt have defenses against that sort of thing, you're just handing enemies a weapon.

Demonreach evidently has defenses against that sort of subversion, but Demonreach is not a god.
Its a lot more limited than that.
Building something with the incorruptibility of Demonreach and the freedom of action of a city god will take some doing.

Click to shrink...

Fairly sure that the god of a major city would be able to smack most people and not so people around. Bane can hold off naagloshii on its home ground, and Bane is the least god. Now scale Bane from an apartment complex to a major city, and from 30 successes to around a hundred, all rolled with the backing of a 5 dot celestial tier charm. In a fight between such a being and anyone bar maybe Mab on its home ground? I would bet on the god.

Also, I am like 99.9% sure that Demonreach would count as a god in this mixed setting.

 

[DragonParadox]

Well good for you Adam. Much better education than I assumed.
Even if you are still predictably minded.

Click to shrink...

He does not have what you would call a consistent education, but you pick up things when you guard ancient horrors with pretensions of culture.

 

[Alratan]

So, essentially, for the Dragon Nest we have access to, we'll be getting streetwise bonuses equal to the number os successes on Wits + occult against base difficulty 7 contested by Porter (if it wants to contest the roll, I guess). So, essentially, +10 Streetwise dice for a month. And maybe we'll be able to make ways / teleport between Dragon Nests

Click to shrink...

That's not right. You add the Node's rating, which goes from 1 to 5, not the number of successes. Five would be one of the most powerful nodes in the world, something like Stonehenge or the Great Pyramid at Giza.

 

[Prospalz]

Awakened Eye of the Dragon:

Click to shrink...

Thank you for the details.

I wonder if Porter would be fine with changing the nature of the caern, at some point. Streetwise isn't exactly god-tier ability.

 

[fictionfan]

Awakened Eye of the Dragon:


Rite of the Opened Caern:

Caern types and powers they grant:

Spoiler: Caern types and powers

Type	Power	Spirits Encountered
All	Open Moon Bridge*
Enigmas	Enigmas Ability	Illusion, Shadow, Chameleon-spirit
Gnosis	Gnosis points	Engling, Ghost
Healing	Health Levels	Peace, Calm, Water elemental
Leadership	Leadership, Intimidation	War, Bird-spirit
Rage	Rage points	War, Pain
Stamina	Soak dice	Protection, Guardian, Turtle-spirit
Strength	Strength attribute	War
Urban	Streetwise	City Elemental
Visions	Oracular Visions	Bird-spirit
Will	Willpower points	War, Ancestor-spirit
Wisdom	Rituals, Expression	Owl-spirit, Ancestor-spirit
Wyld	Anything	Wyldling

Power: One point/level/die is gained per success on the Rite of the Opened Caern.
Spirits Encountered: These are the spirits most often encountered near this type of caern. How-
ever, there's no guarantee they'll be there. Other spirits may appear at the Storyteller's discretion.
* Only if the caern has completed a Rite of the Opened Bridge to a destination for that Moon Bridge.

Rite of the Opened Bridge

Spoiler

Level Four
This rite creates a moon bridge, a shimmering portal
serving as a mystical means of transportation between
two caerns. Such moon bridges are vital links among the
sacred spaces of Gaia. Once per year, a caern must renew
its connection with other caerns to which it wishes to
maintain moon bridges. This rite is always held during
a moot, and it must be enacted simultaneously by both
participating caerns.
The primary requirement to open a moon bridge is a
pathstone. Pathstones are found in the Umbra, and they
are often the objects of quests. These extraordinarily rare
stones resemble flat pearls with the imprint of a wolf's
paw on one side. It is possible to steal a pathstone from a
caern, but such a theft is considered blasphemous, and it
may well result in war between two septs.
The rite establishes (or reestablishes) a spiritual con-
nection between the pathstones of two separate caerns
by way of the caerns' totem spirits. At the rite's culmina-
tion, a moon bridge opens between the two participating
caerns. During this time, Garou from both septs can travel
between the caerns to join in a wild revel. Moon bridges
allow Garou to traverse distances in 1/1000 th the normal
time required. This rite must be renewed once every 13
moons (roughly a year).
System: The roll is Wits + Enigmas (difficulty 8 minus
the level of the ritemaster's caern). If the ritemaster's pack
totem is the same as the totem of the caern, she receives a
bonus of three dice to the roll. If the rite was unsuccessful
previously, the difficulty level of the rite increases by one.
The ritemaster needs to obtain a number of successes equal
to the target caern's level to complete the rite.
If the rite succeeds, the moon bridge opens imme-
diately, and the spirit-bond between the two pathstones
is established. Moon bridges may now be opened at any
time between the two caerns. The bridges may be opened
with the Rite of the Opened Caern or the Ragabash Gift:
Open Moon Bridge (if performed at the caern). If the rite
fails, no moon bridge opens, and the rite must be tried
again next year. Moon bridges to the caern may still be
opened, but they aren't as safe as they might be.
See page 311 for moon bridge distances.

So, essentially, for the Dragon Nest we have access to, we'll be getting streetwise bonuses equal to the number os successes on Wits + occult against base difficulty 7 contested by Porter (if it wants to contest the roll, I guess). So, essentially, +10 Streetwise dice for a month. And maybe we'll be able to make ways / teleport between Dragon Nests

Click to shrink...

If we could find a alertness or awareness based nest that would really fill some holes in our character sheet. Of course if we found a melee based one we might not need them be able to get by on pure fighting skill.

 

[Artemis1992]

In World of Darkness, the Wan Kuei/Kuei-Jin always feed on chi, but HOW they get that chi differs depending on their age and enlightenment and personal power. The youngest, freshly risen, must feed on human flesh. Older ones feed on blood. Elders feed on breath. Methuselah-equivalents feed on environmental chi.

An older vampire can still, if they choose, feed using the methods of their juniors.
But juniors cant feed with the methods of their elders.

So if I'm right, we're either looking at a shen, or a Jade Court elder.
And one thats probably deliberately killing those people, since unlike the youngest, they have the control to can feed without doing harm to people if they so choose.

Click to shrink...

All correct, but consider, an Elder who can feed on Breath, is also good enough not to accidentally kill people in a way that leaves a mystery for the locals.
These peeps usually have excellent self control, and breath-draining can be done so subtly that the victim barely notices what he has lost.
Similar to Whampires actually.

So I can't believe these were feeding-accidents.
Even if the Vamp were so callous to literally not care that he is killing people, then killing by draining blood would be more likely to be mistaken for the deeds of local vampires.

Also Wan-Kuei have no particular compulsion or preference to feed on people with Asian heritage, AFAIK.

If this was done by Jampires or other Shen, it was propably deliberate murders, not feeding gone wrong.

Or it really was some other monster, or a Warlock with magic too subtle for Dresden to easily notice.

 

[fictionfan]

Thank you for the details.

I wonder if Porter would be fine with changing the nature of the caern, at some point. Streetwise isn't exactly god-tier ability.

Click to shrink...

Any ability is good if you have enough of it. Currently we don't roll much streetwise because other options are better for us because of our lack of skill, but if we had it that would basically mean that we could find helpful locations at will. For example we would not have needed extreme successes to find a clinic willing to give medicine without a prescription we would just know which places to go to. We would just know where all the entrances to undertown are. We would basically always be able to get a sale on whatever we want to buy assuming that we had to pay money at all. Remember when we payed all that money for scrap metal? A streetwise check would have us find someone who would pay us to take it off their hands.

Also super useful for helping us integrate our minions back into society.

 

[Yog]

That's not right. You add the Node's rating, which goes from 1 to 5, not the number of successes. Five would be one of the most powerful nodes in the world, something like Stonehenge.

Click to shrink...

The text I am looking at right now (Werewolf 20th Anniversary Edition) directly says successes:
Power: One point/level/die is gained per success on the Rite of the Opened Caern.

The caern rating doesn't feature. It features in the system description of the caern itself:

System: Each caern has a Caern Rating between 1 and
5 that reflects the potency of effects that can be enacted
there. For example, a Level One healing caern might
refresh and heal minor wounds, while a Level Five one
could miraculously heal the most grievous wounds. The
higher a caern's rating is, the farther its moon bridges can
reach. Thus, the greatest heroes of the Garou Nation have
opportunities to travel to sacred places in the most distant
corners of the Earth. Caerns with higher ratings tend to
attract a greater diversity of tribes, travelers, and heroes.
The higher a caern's rating is, the lower the rating
of its Gauntlet will be. Level One and Level Two caerns
have a Gauntlet of 4, Level Three and Level Four caerns
have a Gauntlet of 3, and at Level Five, the most power-
ful caerns have a Gauntlet of 2. The presence of many
Garou becomes essential in the most powerful caerns,
since the veil between worlds is thin, allowing spirits to
enter the world more freely. Level One through Three
caerns can create a moon bridge reaching for 1000 miles
(1600 km) per caern level. A Level Four caern's moon
bridge reaches for up to 6000 miles (9,700 km); at Level
Five, up to 10,000 miles (16,000 km).

Click to shrink...

I am unfamiliar with werewolf, and can't speculate on what's correct. The caern level might be the maximum possible number of successes? Or maybe the spillover goes into the duration. I don't know.

I'll also point out that caerns are not dragon nests, and that this is an Ancient Sorcery spell, performed by a celestial exalt. Shenanigans are probably expected.

Also, if I recall correctly (please correct me), but out kingdom counts as a maximum level Dragon Nest.

If we could find a alertness or awareness based nest that would really fill some holes in our character sheet. Of course if we found a melee based one we might not need them be able to get by on pure fighting skill.

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Stamina and Healing types should be what we look for. Find a couple, and suddenly everyone has +20 soak and +20 health levels.

 

[Alratan]

The text I am looking at right now (Werewolf 20th Anniversary Edition) directly says successes:
Power: One point/level/die is gained per success on the Rite of the Opened Caern.

The caern rating doesn't feature. It features in the system description of the caern itself:

Click to shrink...

W20 says:

System: To open a caern, the character engages in a resisted, extended test of Wits + Rituals (difficulty 7) against the caern's spirit, seeking to gain a number of successes equal to the caern's level. The caern spirit uses the caern's level as its dice pool (difficulty of the ritemaster's Gnosis), seeking to gain (Ritemaster's Willpower) successes. The first party to reach their target number of successes triumphs.

If the character wins the test, she can add the caern's rating to her dice pool when performing actions appropriate to the caern's focus. If she loses, she takes lethal damage equal to the number of successes by which the caern beat her; a botch makes this damage aggravated.​

It adds the caern's rating.

I am unfamiliar with werewolf, and can't speculate on what's correct. The caern level might be the maximum possible number of successes? Or maybe the spillover goes into the duration. I don't know.

I'll also point out that caerns are not dragon nests, and that this is an Ancient Sorcery spell, performed by a celestial exalt. Shenanigans are probably expected.

Also, if I recall correctly (please correct me), but out kingdom counts as a maximum level Dragon Nest.

Click to shrink...

Dragon Nest is another name for Caern, and the Ancient Sorcery spell just duplicates the Werewolf ritual.

 

[Prospalz]

Yeah, I am not sure about those numbers. +20 on anything is, like, the numbers you get when you start using Soul Rendering Practice in ways it was not meant to be used, nevermind getting that as a persistent buff on important attributes.

Even +3 or +4 is actually really good in ExWoD's paradigm of "everything stacks." Add Alchemy on top of that, and that's like permanently active Excellency level of bonus dice.

 

[Alratan]

Yeah, I am not sure about those numbers. +20 on anything is, like, the numbers you get when you start using Soul Rendering Practice in ways it was not meant to be used, nevermind getting that as a persistent buff on important attributes.

Even +3 or +4 is actually really good in ExWoD's paradigm of "everything stacks." Add Alchemy on top of that, and that's like permanently active Excellency level of bonus dice.

Click to shrink...

It's particularly amazing for mortals and mortal adjacents like wizards and minor talents, as it allows them to cap break.

And the Gnosis caern directly gives people magic points, which would be amazing for minor talents assuming it counts as mana.

 

[Yog]

W20 says:

System: To open a caern, the character engages in a resisted, extended test of Wits + Rituals (difficulty 7) against the caern's spirit, seeking to gain a number of successes equal to the caern's level. The caern spirit uses the caern's level as its dice pool (difficulty of the ritemaster's Gnosis), seeking to gain (Ritemaster's Willpower) successes. The first party to reach their target number of successes triumphs.

If the character wins the test, she can add the caern's rating to her dice pool when performing actions appropriate to the caern's focus. If she loses, she takes lethal damage equal to the number of successes by which the caern beat her; a botch makes this damage aggravated.​

It adds the caern's rating.



Dragon Nest is another name for Caern, and the Ancient Sorcery spell just duplicates the Werewolf ritual.

Click to shrink...

So, probably up to the dragon nest rating. Still, if we have RVD and there are dragon nests under the ocean (and maybe in the Arctic and Antarctic regions) that are not all occupied by fomori or someone else... Even five to ten dragon nests stacked together (dedicate one AP per month to spend a weekend to do all the rituals) would net us a lot of bonuses.

 

[uju32]

It's not ways I'm worried about exactly, so much as specifically making it easier to cross over from the city.
If we pin that sort of connection in place with the ignition of a major city's god - probably the strongest god to be born since the white god largely shut down the other pantheons - I don't think the effects would be particularly light or easy to shift.

Being connected like that to a mortal city, and especially multiple mortal cities, would be a tremendous opportunity. But it would also be a significant risk in its own right.

I'd almost rather trade lord of the land for bottleneck, so that anyone coming in has to fight our exaltation to show up anywhere other than the front door if we decided to become the crossroads of the world.

Click to shrink...

Oh, yeah.
Im assuming that our Hell comes with multiple Ways to the rest of the setting regardless, because thats how they are written.
Only one of them is coming to Chicago. Others will lead elsewhere.

I dont really want Bottleneck.
But thats me.

I don't believe we know that the White God shut down the other pantheons. Just that the Celtic, Greek, and Norse pantheons lost their ability to influence the Earth when they were outcompeted by Abrahamic religions and stopped having meaningful numbers of mortal worshippers.

For all we know in Asia the Hindu, Buddhist, and traditional Chinese and Japanese pantheons are still going as strong as ever.

Click to shrink...

I think there's Word of Jim to more or less that effect.

I personally consider creating a city god to be a capstone action of taking over the city's pollical structure. Incidentally it would be interesting if Mayor of Chicago actually became a mantel that restricted and empowered elected officials that followed the will of the citizens of Chicago. After all voting can be seen as a act of worship.

Click to shrink...

I dont.

Fairly sure that the god of a major citywould be able to smack most people around. Bane can hold off naagloshii on its home ground, and Bane is the least god. Now scale Bane from an apartment complex to a major city, and from 30 successes to around a hundred, all rolled with the backing of a 5 dot celestial tier charm. In a fight between such a being and anyone bar maybe Mab on its home ground? I would bet on the god.

Also, I am like 99.9% sure that Demonreach would count as a god in this mixed setting.

Click to shrink...

Arawn was able to smack most people around. Didnt help with Kattrin.
The sort of people with ambitions to eat or suborn a god arent exactly most people, and get the advantage of preptime, initiative, and the ability to do shit like Call A Friend Ally.

Unlike the Archive, a city god is bound to a geographical area. So even assuming they wield more power than Ivy, they are more limited to a planned attack.

Demonreach stood off the combined forces of the Winter and Summer Ladies, and their retinues, in Cold Days.
Demonreach bound Ethniu.
Demonreach isnt a god. Its something Other.

He does not have what you would call a consistent education, but you pick up things when you guard ancient horrors with pretensions of culture.

Click to shrink...

Ah. Approval withdrawn. Someone's gonna need to get working on a GED, or college correspondence courses .
Looks like he has something to work on this winter. Even get them a bunch of laptops to help; the dude who incorporated Khan Academy in 2008 has been putting up videos on Youtube since 2004.

Molly's POV: If I have to go to school, so do the rest of you slackers.

Thank you for the details.
I wonder if Porter would be fine with changing the nature of the caern, at some point. Streetwise isn't exactly god-tier ability.

Click to shrink...

Urban/Wyld.
Given the nature of the NeverNever in the Dresdenverse, I suspect all Dragon Nests count as Wyld in addition to whatever else they are aspected towards.

 

[BronzeTongue]

I don't believe we know that the White God shut down the other pantheons. Just that the Celtic, Greek, and Norse pantheons lost their ability to influence the Earth when they were outcompeted by Abrahamic religions and stopped having meaningful numbers of mortal worshippers.

For all we know in Asia the Hindu, Buddhist, and traditional Chinese and Japanese pantheons are still going as strong as ever.

Click to shrink...

It might be changed for the crossover, but DF leans uncomfortably into "the Christians were right all along" as much as it's an urban fantasy setting with a complicated supernatural environment.

Butcher is pretty consistent about that in his world building and WoGs on the subject.

I'm not particularly invested in that aspect of the setting, and it'd probably be improved by a change in that respect, but where we have to use DF as a guide rail that's kind of the default.

 

[Yog]

Unlike the Archive, a city god is bound to a geographical area. So even assuming they wield more power than Ivy, they are more limited to a planned attack.

Click to shrink...

It would almost certainly be vastly more pwoerful than Ivy. At the very least it would probably be able to constantly tap into all leylines and dragon nests in its borders, have local intellectus covering its area, will be able to teleport within the city, etc. Might have perfect defences along the lines of Ablation of Brass and Fire.

Demonreach stood off the combined forces of the Winter and Summer Ladies, and their retinues, in Cold Days.
Demonreach bound Ethniu.
Demonreach isnt a god. Its something Other.

Click to shrink...

Demonreach is a specialized powerful guardian god of a local area. I would expect that god of Chicago as raised by us would be significantly more powerful than Demonreach.

 

[uju32]

All correct, but consider, an Elder who can feed on Breath, is also good enough not to accidentally kill people in a way that leaves a mystery for the locals.These peeps usually have excellent self control, and breath-draining can be done so subtly that the victim barely notices what he has lost.Similar to Whampires actually.

So I can't believe these were feeding-accidents.
Even if the Vamp were so callous to literally not care that he is killing people, then killing by draining blood would be more likely to be mistaken for the deeds of local vampires.

Also Wan-Kuei have no particular compulsion or preference to feed on people with Asian heritage, AFAIK.
If this was done by Jampires or other Shen, it was propably deliberate murders, not feeding gone wrong.
Or it really was some other monster, or a Warlock with magic too subtle for Dresden to easily notice.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, thats my point.
Deliberate murder, in a community of Asians in Chicago.

It might be changed for the crossover, but DF leans uncomfortably into "the Christians were right all along" as much as it's an urban fantasy setting with a complicated supernatural environment.
Butcher is pretty consistent about that in his world building and WoGs on the subject.

I'm not particularly invested in that aspect of the setting, and it'd probably be improved by a change in that respect, but where we have to use DF as a guide rail that's kind of the default.

Click to shrink...

Yeah
You're just going to find that Brahma is the mask/name/role that the White God is known by in India, for example.

 

[Prospalz]

Caerns dice bonus

Click to shrink...

Yeah, the ritual itself says what Alratan says, but the powers table at the page 312 says what Yog says. One of the many cases where White Wolf used several authors to write different chapters and they failed to synchronize everything. WW was pretty infamous for stuff like that, at the time.

Anyway, as I mentioned, 1-5 is already a lot. I guess it would be ok for a celestial with a special charm or just mind-boggling amount of sux to get a little bit more than that, but most certainly not +10 or +20.

That's just mechanically insane.

 

[fictionfan]

Oh, yeah.
Im assuming that our Hell comes with multiple Ways to the rest of the setting regardless, because thats how they are written.
Only one of them is coming to Chicago. Others will lead elsewhere.

I dont really want Bottleneck.
But thats me.

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If we go for human residences and overcrowded we might be able to quickly solve the overcrowded issue by mass moving them out. Maybe take over South America.

 

[Alratan]

I think there's Word of Jim to more or less that effect.

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I've tried finding it, and there's nothing that says it was the White God directly acting to change the metaphysics rather than the simple rise of worship of the white god displacing worship of those other pantheons.

It might be changed for the crossover, but DF leans uncomfortably into "the Christians were right all along" as much as it's an urban fantasy setting with a complicated supernatural environment.

Butcher is pretty consistent about that in his world building and WoGs on the subject.

I'm not particularly invested in that aspect of the setting, and it'd probably be improved by a change in that respect, but where we have to use DF as a guide rail that's kind of the default.

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I've just read through the WoJ on the subject, and can't find where it says that, rather than something much more ambiguous that people have made out to bemuch more absolute

Arawn was able to smack most people around. Didnt help with Kattrin.
The sort of people with ambitions to eat or suborn a god arent exactly most people, and get the advantage of preptime, initiative, and the ability to do shit like Call A Friend Ally.

Unlike the Archive, a city god is bound to a geographical area. So even assuming they wield more power than Ivy, they are more limited to a planned attack.

Demonreach stood off the combined forces of the Winter and Summer Ladies, and their retinues, in Cold Days.
Demonreach bound Ethniu.
Demonreach isnt a god. Its something Other.

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Remember that a city god would be something very new to any of the current actors in the setting, and when we've seen such traps, they've been built based on accumulations of centuries of knowledge.

For any supernatural predator, they'd have to worry that the City God would eat them. Which given the way cities historically operated, as population sinks sucking in people and wealth from outside and consuming and assimilating it to be part of themselves, is a quite reasonable fear.

 

[fictionfan]

Yeah, the ritual itself says what Alratan says, but the powers table at the page 312 says what Yog says. One of the many cases where White Wolf used several authors to write different chapters and they failed to synchronize everything. WW was pretty infamous for stuff like that, at the time.

Anyway, as I mentioned, 1-5 is already a lot. I guess it would be ok for a celestial with a special charm or just mind-boggling amount of sux to get a little bit more than that, but most certainly not +10 or +20.

That's just mechanically insane.

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Well non-Exalted are limited to 5 successes by the rules. So maybe for them 5 is the limit in any case.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Yeah, the ritual itself says what Alratan says, but the powers table at the page 312 says what Yog says. One of the many cases where White Wolf used several authors to write different chapters and they failed to synchronize everything. WW was pretty infamous for stuff like that, at the time.

Anyway, as I mentioned, 1-5 is already a lot. I guess it would be ok for a celestial with a special charm or just mind-boggling amount of sux to get a little bit more than that, but most certainly not +10 or +20.

That's just mechanically insane.

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InauspIcIous benedIctIon of endeavor. An Infernal charm grants auto successes 2-4 to everything an organization does. And you can be a organization of you so can apply to every roll.

 

[Yog]

overcrowded

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This keeps triggering me, and is a hill I'll die on. The description of overpopulated feature goes like this:

Overpopulated (Cost: None; gain 1 point): The
Hell has too many inhabitants for its ecosystem to sup-
port. Space is at a premium, privacy is nonexistent,
and violence is probably common.

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It's a negative effect that's worth 1 point. What else is worth 1 point? Eternal Suffering is also one point; the one that makes everyone essentially immortal inside our hell. A perfect defense around the whole of our realm with only one controllable chokepoint as the flaw of defense is also worth one point. Meaning that it's actually signficiant. It's not flavoring at all. And what does the description say? It says that "there are too many inhabitants for the ecosystem to support". The ecosystem is not just the wildlife. In an urban system, the city itself is an ecosystem. And "too many to support" by definition means that the ecosystem cannot support so many people indefinitely. Meaning that the system is unstable and is going to collapse. No ifs and no buts. It's going to break down. I am not building something that will break down as part of the design of our soul. This is abhorrent to me.

And let's look at the second part: space is at a premiym, privacy is nonexistent, violaence is probably common. Does it sound like a society that we'd want to interact with? Not to me.

No, Overpopulated is not something to take, even if it means letting go of Lord of the Land (I still hope that we'll be allowed homebrew later to add more features; at least here it makes sense).

 

[Alratan]

InauspIcIous benedIctIon of endeavor. An Infernal charm grants auto successes 2-4 to everything an organization does. And you can be a organization of you so can apply to every roll.

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Which isn't an ExWoD charm. The breadth of the scale of effects in ExWoD is generally massively scaled down, so we should expect this to be as well of translated, applying to a handful of people, not every member of an organisation.

This keeps triggering me, and is a hill I'll die on. The description of overpopulated feature goes like this:

It's a negative effect that's worth 1 point. What else is worth 1 point? Eternal Suffering is also one point; the one that makes everyone essentially immortal inside our hell. A perfect defense around the whole of our realm with only one controllable chokepoint as the flaw of defense is also worth one point. Meaning that it's actually signficiant. It's not flavoring at all. And what does the description say? It says that "there are too many inhabitants for the ecosystem to support". The ecosystem is not just the wildlife. In an urban system, the city itself is an ecosystem. And "too many to support" by definition means that the ecosystem cannot support so many people indefinitely. Meaning that the system is unstable and is going to collapse. No ifs and no buts. It's going to break down. I am not building something that will break down as part of the design of our soul. This is abhorrent to me.

And let's look at the second part: space is at a premiym, privacy is nonexistent, violaence is probably common. Does it sound like a society that we'd want to interact with? Not to me.

No, Overpopulated is not something to take, even if it means letting go of Lord of the Land (I still hope that we'll be allowed homebrew later to add more features; at least here it makes sense).

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Overpopulated is great because it ensures we'll get a vast population. And just because most of the world is overcrowded doesn't mean the elites we'd usually interact with would be...

We just need to send out our legions of war-devils to conquer and settle some of the Nevernever...

 

[uju32]

It would almost certainly be vastly more powerful than Ivy. At the very least it would probably be able to constantly tap into all leylines and dragon nests in its borders, have local intellectus covering its area, will be able to teleport within the city, etc. Might have perfect defences along the lines of Ablation of Brass and Fire.

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Ivy, and her predecessors, have a broader portfolio, have fought the Oblivion War against Old Gods for thiusands of years, and have enough supernatural grunt to partywipe the Order of the Blackened Denarius if she has access to magic.
I am reasonably certain any city god is going to scale rather lower.

None of that shit you're talking about is a given.
Intellectus is not something most gods get in this setting; Perfect defenses are as rare.
You cant just write up a wishlist and assume that it will receive all that by fiat.

Demonreach is a specialized powerful guardian god of a local area. I would expect that god of Chicago as raised by us would be significantly more powerful than Demonreach.

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Broader, subtler powers sure. But more powerful? No.
Demonreach is explicitly capable of blowing up most of North America and imprisoning the Queen of Winter. And we DID see it imprison the Titan Ethniu. Thats significantly more than any Exalted city god can do.

A Chicago city god is almost certainly going to scale lower.
Doesnt make it useless; just not overwhelmingly powerful.