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General Exalted Thread

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EarthScorpion said:
It can't make Realm paper money because its value is based entirely on the fact that the Imperial Purse says it's worth X.
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Irrelevant. Contextually, we're obviously discussing counterfeit currency, so its legitimacy is completely irrelevant to whether or not it can be forged.

EarthScorpion said:
Realm Scrip is fiat currency and so while this charm can give you the raw materials, that's... uh, paper and ink. You still need to actually make it look like Realm currency, which this Charm can't do.
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Substance =/= raw material
Whether "substance" means you can print things with this charm is up to interpretation (there are multiple definitions of substance; I'd allow it in my game, and don't care enough to argue about it).
(Though the siu and yen are made of a single substance, so even with the less flexible definition of the charm they can be forged.)

EarthScorpion said:
The silver talent is based off its silver content, by contrast. As long as a silver talent is confirmed by an assayer to be of the right purity and weight, it has the value of a talent. That's why you can forge silver talents with this - because you're making silver and the silver is what the silver standard is backed by.
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The silver talent is irrelevant to this charms ability to forge jade scrip.
 
I think what ES is saying is that the charm makes raw materials, you need actual forging skills to turn those into paper money.

Which your character might have, but then, there are easier ways of getting paper, ink and thread, so the charm isn't realy promoting counterfeiting
 
azoicennead said:
The silver talent is irrelevant to this charms ability to forge jade scrip.
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Why are you ignoring my point that this charm is a transmution charm and therefore cannot on its own forge Realm scrip, because Realm scrip as fiat currency with no 'inherent' worth require detailing work unlike a currency backed by the material it's made of?

Because this Charm cannot forge Realm scrip on its own. You need forging skills to do it. By contrast, a talent's worth of silver is worth a talent definitionally. Because that's what the silver standard means.

(And no, an ink-and-paper arrangement such as a paper note is not "a substance". This Charm is already plenty powerful enough - to ignore its wording to make it even broader to allow you to skip the entire "forging" step through raw transmution is a considerable boost.)
 
Basically, Apeiron Isolation Alchemy transmutes substances, but since it doesn't shape them you can't make finished goods with it. Realm Scrip is a finished good because although you could make a circular metal disc of the right size and material, it wouldn't be a Realm Yen because it isn't stamped with the image of the Empress and the motto of the Imperial government or whatever.

Contrast the Silver Talent, where its value is due to the fact that it's a hunk of silver.
 
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Imrix said:
Realm Scrip is a finished good because although you could make a circular metal disc of the right size and material, it wouldn't be a Realm Yen because it isn't stamped with the image of the Empress and the motto of the Imperial government or whatever.
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Well, it does make it easier to forge coins as a tool, because it allows you to work in wax and then transmute it to metal. Like, sure, if you had a dastardly plan to forge lots of low value scrip, it'd be easier to set up a mould and a press to imprint wax discs with the correct symbols and then transmute your wax coins into low value Realm scrip coinage than forging them with a metal press.

But holy shit man, if you want to make money, just turn some rocks into pure gold and smelt it into nice pretty ingots or transmute an apple into ruby. It's a lot less work than a cunning low-denomination scrip forging plan. Like, seriously, it is probably not worth your time to use this charm to forge scrip, when you could be using it to become a master sculptor by posing the bodies of your foes in amusing positions and then transmuting them to stone. Or whatever floats your boat. :p

Defiler: "Oh man, we totally kicked the asses of this Realm legion! Okay! Right! Now, start positioning the bodies so they're dancing the YMFotICA [1] song. I'm going to turn them into pyrian crystal. I want the Realm to know what fate awaits them if they come back to our land."

[1] Young Men's' Followers of the Immaculate Cult Association
 
notanautomaton said:
So, is there any reason that I shouldn't just combine necromancy and sorcery?
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What would the point be? You can justify nearly anything at Adamant/Void circle spellcasting.

Anasurimbor said:
Exactly. They were created to suffer, for without suffering they would not pray so desperately. Their suffering was to be eternal, as they would be reborn without end.
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I think you're reading too much malice into it. They were created to need help. The Dragon's Shadow would make them suffer, but the other Yozis each had their own interests. The plight of early humanity was primarily due to carelessness and thoughtlessness, not cruelty. When you put a gerbil on an exercise wheel, do you cackle to yourself about how it's doomed to never get anywhere in life and suckle water a drop at a time? Or do you let it do its thing because you've got something else going on?
 
Peanuckle said:
A little while ago I posted about charms for Anathema. Well, here they are! Theion (from Shards) and Isidoros (Revlid) charmsets. Just drop the files into the Anathema\repository\custom folder and you're good to go.

You may notice references to other charms in the .properties file. That's because I have them typed up in individual files that I intend to compile into single documents later.

Also: While the charmset for Theion is there, I have been unable to create a Theion yozi in the system, so he has no general charmset. Sorry :(

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/fhjg3qg17o1aunz,hf5mo5gra2htzkx,76030f8fpgw77b2/shared
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Do you have/know of one of these for the SWLiHN rewrite? That would be much appreciated.
 
Bursting Eagerness Soul said:
Do you have/know of one of these for the SWLiHN rewrite? That would be much appreciated.
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I was planning on typing up Revlid's Metagaos next. Why not take a crack at it yourself? It's not very hard at all.

https://github.com/anathema/anathema/wiki/How-to-create-custom-charms-and-spells

You can also use the charms I've written and the ones present in the core files (you'll have to extract the .jar files) as examples. It's actually kinda fun learning how the system functions and developing your own ways to get things to work.
 
Peanuckle said:
I was planning on typing up Revlid's Metagaos next. Why not take a crack at it yourself? It's not very hard at all.

https://github.com/anathema/anathema/wiki/How-to-create-custom-charms-and-spells

You can also use the charms I've written and the ones present in the core files (you'll have to extract the .jar files) as examples. It's actually kinda fun learning how the system functions and developing your own ways to get things to work.
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I haven't done any coding in 3 years, and even then it was just an intro class, but I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the link.
 
EarthScorpion said:
But holy shit man, if you want to make money, just turn some rocks into pure gold and smelt it into nice pretty ingots or transmute an apple into ruby. It's a lot less work than a cunning low-denomination scrip forging plan. Like, seriously, it is probably not worth your time to use this charm to forge scrip, when you could be using it to become a master sculptor by posing the bodies of your foes in amusing positions and then transmuting them to stone. Or whatever floats your boat. :p
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Or just transmute a block of iron and bronze which can sell far ore reliably and attracts less attention.
 
Bursting Eagerness Soul said:
Quick question. How did you get all of your charms loaded into one file? It seems to need two for each charm.
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You need two files; the .xml that tells Anathema the charm exists and the .properties that defines the charm and provides context. The .xml file can contain as many charms as you like so long as you follow this format:

<charmlist>
<charmid=Solar.Whatever and so on>
<charm program goes here>
</charm>
<charmid=Solar.Whatever2 and so on>
<charm program goes here>
</charm>
</charmlist>

So you can fit however many you want between <charmlist> and </charmlist> in the same file. Just make sure that each one is finished or you'll get errors.

As for the .properties file, just pack the text in there. You can look at the files I posted for examples.
 
Peanuckle said:
You need two files; the .xml that tells Anathema the charm exists and the .properties that defines the charm and provides context. The .xml file can contain as many charms as you like so long as you follow this format:

<charmlist>
<charmid=Solar.Whatever and so on>
<charm program goes here>
</charm>
<charmid=Solar.Whatever2 and so on>
<charm program goes here>
</charm>
</charmlist>

So you can fit however many you want between <charmlist> and </charmlist> in the same file. Just make sure that each one is finished or you'll get errors.

As for the .properties file, just pack the text in there. You can look at the files I posted for examples.
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Okay. That makes sense after looking at yours. How did you organize them into distinct trees? Also, how do you add the summary text?
 
Bursting Eagerness Soul said:
Okay. That makes sense after looking at yours. How did you organize them into distinct trees? Also, how do you add the summary text?
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Consider the following charm header.

<charm id="Infernal.Hedonismdrive" exalt="Infernal" group="Hedonismdrive">

group="Hedonismdrive"> is the part that identifies the charm tree. You'll have to define that in the .properties file thusly:

Hedonismdrive=Isidoros: Indomitable Hedonism Drive

Basically, the .properties file is where you tell the program what all the odd little words mean. It's also where you add the summary text. For the above charm, you'd see something like this:

Infernal.Hedonismdrive=Indomitable Hedonism Drive
Infernal.Hedonismdrive.Description=The Infernal treats his desires as his Motivation for the purpose of MDV and stunts, but cannot regain Willpower from sleeping unless he satisfies them.

The first line tells the program that the words "Hedonismdrive" should be displayed as "Indomitable Hedonism Drive." The second line is the description that will be present in the box in the charm tree. You'll want to keep this part short and sweet, because those boxes get huge really quickly.
 
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EarthScorpion said:
By contrast, a talent's worth of silver is worth a talent definitionally. Because that's what the silver standard means.
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You don't seem to understand that the pros and cons of forging other currencies are completely fucking irrelevant to whether or not you can forge jade scrip. Please stop acting like it's an argument against my point.

Sure, they might be easier. Sure, they might be a more steady method. But being able to kick doesn't stop you from punching (and being able to forge one type of currency doesn't stop you from forging another). I'm not saying "you can easily do this", I'm saying "my interpretation of the charm is that this is possible".

EDIT: To be clear, I consider your interpretation of the charm just as valid as mine, I simply don't share it. You're taking "substance" as "a particular kind of matter with uniform properties", and I'm taking it as "the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence". These are both definitions of the word.
 
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azoicennead said:
You don't seem to understand that the pros and cons of forging other currencies are completely fucking irrelevant to whether or not you can forge jade scrip. Please stop acting like it's an argument against my point.
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It's not irrelevant, it's a contrast. Apeiron Isolation Alchemy can forge currency in the silver standard because if you take a muffin and transmute it into silver, that's valid currency as far as the silver standard is concerned because the silver standard measures value by weight and purity of silver.

Apeiron Isolation Alchemy cannot, by itself, forge Jade Scrip, because the Charm explicitly notes that "Transformed objects retain their former shape" and the shape of a Yen, including the characters for 'Scarlet Empress' and 'She Reigns Forever' that are stamped upon it, are necessary parts of what makes a Yen a Yen as opposed to a random copper disc.

You could, as ES pointed out, use Apeiron Isolation Alchemy to forge Jade Scrip by making perfect models of Yen in wax and then transmuting those into copper, but you couldn't just transmute a muffin into Jade Scrip currency, because Jade Scrip has no currency that is shaped like a muffin.
 
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@Peanuckle do you know how to set a Charm so that it has repurchases? Also, how would you designate a Charm as needing those repurchases as prereqs? Also also, would you happen to know what the id for an the 1st SWLiHN Excellency is or how I could get it?
 
Bursting Eagerness Soul said:
do you know how to set a Charm so that it has repurchases?
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I can answer this one. Here's an excerpt from the code for the Solar charm Wonder-Forging Genius:
Code: 
 <repurchases trait="Craft">
<repurchase essence="4" trait="5"/>
<repurchase essence="5" trait="5"/>
</repurchases>
The second line represents the initial Essence and Trait minimums needed to purchase the charm the first time, so in a way it's a bit of a rehash of the minimums in the pre-requisite lines earlier in the particular charm block. It would go after the lines denoting any attributes (i.e. keywords) of the charm like Shaping, Combo-OK, etc., but before the source and </charm> lines at the very end.
 
How did you get that? I'm thinking I might just look through the base coding for what I need for the others and I can't figure out how to get to it.
 
Imrix said:
It's not irrelevant, it's a contrast. Apeiron Isolation Alchemy can forge currency in the silver standard because if you take a muffin and transmute it into silver, that's valid currency as far as the silver standard is concerned because the silver standard measures value by weight and purity of silver.

Apeiron Isolation Alchemy cannot, by itself, forge Jade Scrip, because the Charm explicitly notes that "Transformed objects retain their former shape" and the shape of a Yen, including the characters for 'Scarlet Empress' and 'She Reigns Forever' that are stamped upon it, are necessary parts of what makes a Yen a Yen as opposed to a random copper disc.

You could, as ES pointed out, use Apeiron Isolation Alchemy to forge Jade Scrip by making perfect models of Yen in wax and then transmuting those into copper, but you couldn't just transmute a muffin into Jade Scrip currency, because Jade Scrip has no currency that is shaped like a muffin.
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... What, stepping slightly outside what a charm is technically capable of is completely impossible and totally isn't something you're allowed to stunt?
 
azoicennead said:
... What, stepping slightly outside what a charm is technically capable of is completely impossible and totally isn't something you're allowed to stunt?
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You're not 'stepping slightly outside' what the Charm is capable of. You're trying to make the Charm do something it outright says it does not do.

This isn't a technicality or an implication, this is an explicit, full-sentence component of the charm. "Transformed objects retain their former shape, but react normally to their new materials; a liquid pillar would simply collapse." It's a Midas touch, not an omnipotent transmutation ray.
 
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