Don't Water Aspect's also get to buy Martial Arts Charms from other Aspects without paying more or something?
General Exalted Thread
But.......MA is their Caste Ability, and I'm not sure what MA from other Aspects mean here.
The_Reptile_
Jolly Good
- Location
- THE PITS OF HELL. Also known as Connecticut.
If I had to guess the other Elemental Dragon styles.
Among others.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
Water Aspects don't have to pay the 1 mote surcharge when using a MA style of a different Element, because MA is a Caste ability. That means, that if a Fire Aspect with MA favored and a Water Aspect both want to learn a Wood Aspect Style, The Fire Aspect is going to be spending 1 mote more when he uses that styles charms. As a DB with a limited mote pool, that stacks. Alot.
So Water Aspects' anima power is less powerful in order to balance their proficiency with Martial Arts? I can see that. Martial Arts is the only way for a Dragon-Blood to learn Celestial-level Charms, i.e. Celestial Martial Arts. While the other combat styles also suffer from out-of-Aspect surcharges, Martial Arts requires a second balancing factor because of its ability to break the Terrestrials out of their mold, so to speak. That said, a Dragon-Blood "only" needs to master Water Dragon Style to achieve the same benefit, or buy that elder Charm (gasp) Transcendent Gaian Harmony from Dreams of the First Age. Water Dragon Style does have its uses, but buying twelve Charms with the sole purpose of avoiding surcharges is a little extreme.
Which reminds me of something else. Most of canonical Enhanced-keyword effects come from Solar Hero Style, but there are a few in Dark Messiah, and effects from DotFA's Throne Shadow Style that ought to have the keyword. Do you think Terrestrial Hero Style should have Enhanced-keyword effects for Dragon-Blooded? Or perhaps only Water Aspects and other Water-attuned Terrestrials? I would also put the same questions to Water Dragon Style - it certainly comes more naturally to Water Aspects than other Dragon-Blooded, but the style as a whole doesn't because they have to be initiated into Celestial Martial Arts to begin with. Perhaps they ought to get Enhanced-keyword effects for Terrestrial Hero Style as a Terrestrial Martial Art, but not Water Dragon because that is a martial art beyond their station. Thoughts?
Which reminds me of something else. Most of canonical Enhanced-keyword effects come from Solar Hero Style, but there are a few in Dark Messiah, and effects from DotFA's Throne Shadow Style that ought to have the keyword. Do you think Terrestrial Hero Style should have Enhanced-keyword effects for Dragon-Blooded? Or perhaps only Water Aspects and other Water-attuned Terrestrials? I would also put the same questions to Water Dragon Style - it certainly comes more naturally to Water Aspects than other Dragon-Blooded, but the style as a whole doesn't because they have to be initiated into Celestial Martial Arts to begin with. Perhaps they ought to get Enhanced-keyword effects for Terrestrial Hero Style as a Terrestrial Martial Art, but not Water Dragon because that is a martial art beyond their station. Thoughts?
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Kylar
In Training Forever
- Location
- Canada
Uh. The Water Aspect Anima is a) pretty much the same as in 1e (when they didn't favor MA, that was Earth Aspects) and b) it's pretty potent actually, if dependent on there being water. And just to be clear, the whole 'out of aspect charms mote surcharge' is just fucking stupid. Its not balance for anything, its just 'hey, DBs should be better at their own element' implemented in one of the worst ways possible. It can, and furthermore should, be ignored full stop.
If you want to do the work for this, I sure as hell ain't stopping you. Enhanced was a keyword introduced for the Dawn Solution, and like more then a few things there, wasn't really implemented anywhere else. At a guess, things like "getting the Sidereals a functioning charmset" took higher priority. I'm also not sure Enhanced existed when Throne Shadow was written, or when Neph pushed The Thousand Correct Actions out.
Ah, I didn't know that about 1e. I've only read 2e stuff. I was just concerned about the power's all-or-nothing nature. As for the surcharges, I agree. No other splat gets anything remotely like that, further widening the gap between Terrestrials and Celestials. Do you have any ideas regarding a better implementation of Dragon-Blooded being better at their native elements?
Points taken. It's not too bad writing up the new effects - there are lots of natural extensions of both mechanics and flavor for most Charms. Besides, there are so many errata that I'm better off rewriting the Charms anyway.
Roadie
A plate full of blins and a cat nearby.
Editorial concerns aside, here's something you all might find funny from the leaked 3e material.
Celestial Bliss trick is a Charm whereby the Solar "performs the bodymudra of sighs and whispers upon a lover, unleashing a torrent of unimaginable ecstasy". After the "intense lovemaking" (which "induc[es] a worldshaking climax in her partner"), the Solar gets hefty automatic social successes against the target for the rest of the scene.
Penultimate Unity of Form is a Charm that "allows the Exalt to switch methods: what she could previously only accomplish with oration, she can now accomplish with a dance. Strumming her sanxian, she could start a riot, activating Fury Inciting Speech without ever saying a word."
Now combine them and giggle and/or go 'eww' at the implications.
Celestial Bliss trick is a Charm whereby the Solar "performs the bodymudra of sighs and whispers upon a lover, unleashing a torrent of unimaginable ecstasy". After the "intense lovemaking" (which "induc[es] a worldshaking climax in her partner"), the Solar gets hefty automatic social successes against the target for the rest of the scene.
Penultimate Unity of Form is a Charm that "allows the Exalt to switch methods: what she could previously only accomplish with oration, she can now accomplish with a dance. Strumming her sanxian, she could start a riot, activating Fury Inciting Speech without ever saying a word."
Now combine them and giggle and/or go 'eww' at the implications.
I thought it was a joke.
The fact that it is not a joke scares me more than a little bit. Especially because there's nothing saying it needs to be consensual, and it only requires 3 minutes. You can literally mind rape people, guys. Someone thought an explicit Mind Rape charm was a Good Charm (TM).
I am seriously thinking of the implications here because they create a disturbing as fuck world.
"Hey Solar Bob, we've captured a spy. What shall we do?"
"I need to interrogate and turn him. Send him... to the Rape Dungeon."
Our heroes, gentlemen.
(Seriously if "raping your enemies" is even theoretically a mechanically optimal choice you need to reconsider your game and where it's going)
"Hey Solar Bob, we've captured a spy. What shall we do?"
"I need to interrogate and turn him. Send him... to the Rape Dungeon."
Our heroes, gentlemen.
(Seriously if "raping your enemies" is even theoretically a mechanically optimal choice you need to reconsider your game and where it's going)
greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
Remember guys; being a Solar does not automaticlly make you a nice person. It is equally possible for a Solar to us the above charm to give her husband the night of his life, just as it is possible to rape the information out of a spy.
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
... I'm not sure in what world "Solars should be able to be assholes" translates into "making raping people the optimal path for interrogation is a-ok", but I don't want to live in it.
If your PCs go around raping NPCs, that's a very clear indication that you need to find a new group to play with.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Easy there, we don't know the rules for social combat yet, or even the rules for resisting social charms
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
... by the same measure, if your RPG sourcebook provides a Charm that can easily be used to literally mindrape NPCs with sex, that's a very clear indication that you need to find a new RPG to play.
This isn't hard, folks.
greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
I am holding out hope that this won't be the case, and that the Investigation Charms will prove to be far more efficient than forcing one's character on some hapless victim.
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This does not do a great deal to change the fact that forcing one's character on some hapless victim is still a valid option, which is written up as a Charm that you are presumably intended to use.
I mean, just from a thematic point of view, this Charm lets you fuck someone's brains out to the point where they become your besotted doe-eyed waifu who's swayed to agree with whatever you tell them to do for the rest of the scene. The message being communicated there; the core concept behind the Charm; is horrifying when examined even in vague detail. From any point of view that I can see. It's not like it's "oh, you can show someone you love a really good time"; the mechanical impact of the Charm is that you hammer them with your Glorious Solar Dick and then get a bunch of bonus successes on telling them what to think.
As opposed to summoning a giant cloud of razor-sharp obsidian butterflies to dice them into ribbons?
I just can't bring myself to object to the thematic premise of having a "charm that lets you fuck people hard enough they really love you" in a game where you can (and are presumably encouraged to) manipulate other people by changing what they hear in conversations (Poisoned Tongue Technique) or force yourself into seeing through someone's eyes (Sense-Riding Technique), enslave spirits to your will (Water and Fire Legion), or pass your poisoning off to some other random person (Someone Else's Destiny).
It's a game of people doing shitty things to other people, and nearly all the charms reflect that.
I just can't bring myself to object to the thematic premise of having a "charm that lets you fuck people hard enough they really love you" in a game where you can (and are presumably encouraged to) manipulate other people by changing what they hear in conversations (Poisoned Tongue Technique) or force yourself into seeing through someone's eyes (Sense-Riding Technique), enslave spirits to your will (Water and Fire Legion), or pass your poisoning off to some other random person (Someone Else's Destiny).
It's a game of people doing shitty things to other people, and nearly all the charms reflect that.
So...
Everyone's upset because instead of making a charm to imitate Conan or Musashi, this time they made one based on Bond, James Bond?
Realistically, I'd hope they added a "consensual" clause in when someone pointed it out, but it seems (to me, at least) that the intended concept was along the lines of:
1.Become James Bond
2. Seduce villain's wife/hired assassin
3. ???
4. Profit!
Everyone's upset because instead of making a charm to imitate Conan or Musashi, this time they made one based on Bond, James Bond?
Realistically, I'd hope they added a "consensual" clause in when someone pointed it out, but it seems (to me, at least) that the intended concept was along the lines of:
1.Become James Bond
2. Seduce villain's wife/hired assassin
3. ???
4. Profit!
greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
Oh it is a terrible charm; mechanically it is highly situational, will probably not be used by most people even benignly because its just to upfront about what it is, and thematically, well, you've said it all already. I was mostly referring to the general morality of Solars, rather than the one charm in my first post on the subject.
But yeah, probably going to stick to Investigation Charms.
Really? Because here's my point of view: "If the Solar is in a romantic relationship with someone, they can reinforce their relationship by having sex."
You know, like normal people do all the time.
Don Juan, James Bond, Captain Kirk, Casanova, Zeus and Cuchulainn would use this charm all the time.
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Do explain how magical mind control counts as reinforcing a romantic relationship, rather than a fucked-up system of unequal power distribution where one participant is manipulating the other's views and ideals in whatever way they desire.