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General Exalted Thread

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Chloe Sullivan said:
I thought it was basically more or less entirely political/bureucratic.

There are probably former "terrestrial" gods who managed to get into Yu-Shan before the gates were closed during the Great Contagion, managed to fiangle a job, and have managed to make a place for themselves, and are considered "celestial" now. The opposite could also hold: imagine a low end "celestial" god who got locked out of heaven, did some hinky stuff to survive, and was barred from returning and ended up taking up a position in a terrestrial court and is now a "terrestrial".

That was my impression, anyway.
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No, it's the difference between global/regional. From the Core, pg 292:
The Celestial Order is divided into two categories: the
Celestial Court and the Terrestrial Bureaucracy. The Celestial
Court works directly under the Celestial Incarnae themselves
and consists of all the gods that embody universal principles, such
as the seasons, dreams, emotions and feelings—anything that
can be considered common knowledge among mortals. Gods of
physical objects in Creation, such as rivers, cities, other locations
or of particular species of animals, became part of the Terrestrial
Bureaucracy. The Terrestrial Bureaucracy is then subdivided into
spirit courts based on location and related sphere of influence.
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Where it gets confusing is some terrestrial gods (the regional guys) have enough wealth/power to buy their way into Yu-Shan, and thus live there. And then you have some celestial gods that don't like Yu-Shan, and thus live in Creation. Like most things involving Yu-Shan, this is not working as intended.
Scia said:
A note thanks to the contagion and the end of the first end you also got a number of gods that are basically squatters and beggars living in Yu-Shan.
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That has more to do with the fact that their domains got wiped out. Nothing to manage=no job.
 
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Chloe Sullivan said:
I thought it was basically more or less entirely political/bureucratic.

There are probably former "terrestrial" gods who managed to get into Yu-Shan before the gates were closed during the Great Contagion, managed to fiangle a job, and have managed to make a place for themselves, and are considered "celestial" now. The opposite could also hold: imagine a low end "celestial" god who got locked out of heaven, did some hinky stuff to survive, and was barred from returning and ended up taking up a position in a terrestrial court and is now a "terrestrial".

That was my impression, anyway.
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Kylar said:
Where it gets confusing is some terrestrial gods (the regional guys) have enough wealth/power to buy their way into Yu-Shan, and thus live there. And then you have some celestial gods that don't like Yu-Shan, and thus live in Creation. Like most things involving Yu-Shan, this is not working as intended.

That has more to do with the fact that their domains got wiped out. Nothing to manage=no job.
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Also, there's the ability of gods to be promoted, demoted, and otherwise shuffled around in the Celestial Bureaucracy, which IIRC, can leave an originally Terrestrial God as a Celestial and vice versa.

Also, it can change their magic in general, which is something I find vaguely amusing for some reason.
 
To be fair, the Devs have not exactly been super consistent. On one hand we have a narrtive of "gods are bureaucrats with jobs, and can switch jobs" on the other hand, the prestige of their position changes their power, and sometimes the god himself changes: Ameru has gone crazy/senile with the fall of Meru.
 
Silly thought about Hellforged Artifacts (Yes I know... BOOO HISS UNBALANCED, etc etc).

Would their ever be cases where a demon might actually consent to becoming one under circumstances, (ie to get away from their enemies or if their only other alternate was death etc. Mostly curious since I've got yet another silly character concept for a Fiend (I get a lot of them) inspired by people like Nicodemus Archleone from Dresden files or Facilier from the princess and the frog.

The seemingly harmless sorcerer or social fu expert with the deadly shadow. Originally I was thinking of trying to do an appropriate first circle demon, but it didn't really 'feel' appropriate for the character concept, not quite as much of a 'partnership' as such. Instead I got to thinking that you could basically represent a symbiotic bond almost as well by using a Hellforged Wonder based off the Compliant Umbral Panoply, one that the user basically couldn't chose to remove/unattune (leaving them linked as long as they are alive).

That way, the demon could still be around and interact with the environment (with a high sapience basically giving the demon control over their shared main shadow), the Urge could represent their shared goal/goals (negotiated between them as they are achieved), and any powers needed to represent the Demons own powers that don't come from the artifact could be done with the usual rules for hellforged wonders. The main problem I have with mentally justifying the concept is trying to come up with a reason that such a bond/agreement might be forged ... (ie why would a second circle demon agree to give up its own body and become part of the Infernals).

Well that and I was wondering if you guys could come up with better/easier ways of doing the concept in a way that's both thematically cool and balanced. I was originally thinking a shadow inhabiting first circle demon as a familar... but I found that even harder to justify as a true partner rather then a servant.
 
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Latest Kickstarter update;

From Holden: "John should be wrapping up Craft, the final outstanding Charm tree, soon. Sorcery's final overhaul is coming together well, as are Evocations. From there, it's on to final tweaks and touch-ups, art notes, writing the final unwritten piece of the book (introduction), and Phase 3 playtesting and its attendant mechanics adjustments."
The EX3 Novels remain in the pitch/outline phases with Matt Forbeck's novel pitch having moved to the outline phase, and the EX3 Comic PDF and physical copy PoD versions are on sale at DTRPG.com. The EX3 Music Suites are in stasis right now as our composer is bogged down with his day job. Writing is being done on the EX3 Quickstart.
Also, because so many of our backers want us to mention when we do another Kickstarter: the Deluxe W20 Book of the Wyrm KS goes live 12 noon Eastern US time, tomorrow June the 3rd. All the nasty Wyrm stuff explored, and a chance to vote for and nominate (maybe yourself) nominees for that corrupt corporation Pentex's Board of Directors. Get on the Board to advance your own nefarious schemes or to destroy it from within...
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I think one of the Second Circles I came up with for Astrea wanted to render herself down into azoth and imbue the Five Metal Shrike with it, thus infusing her into it as a new body.

But it was kind of implied in the bio that she was craaaaaaazy, so that may not count for much.
 
Righteousness said:
(Example) How would the instance of falling down work? Would the person fall down because of the Celestial god of falling down, or because of an individual Terrestrial god designated to that instance of a fall?
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Most of the time? Neither. The gods could certainly make you fall down, but they do not cause said actuon to occur, any more than a goverment agency in charge of examining floods controla the floods.
 
Righteousness said:
(Example) How would the instance of falling down work? Would the person fall down because of the Celestial god of falling down, or because of an individual Terrestrial god designated to that instance of a fall?
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Neither.

The person falls down because within Creation's frame of reference, the Loom of Fate enforces a causality which states that objects released without support fall down. This interaction is noted by the local least gods of the object and the least god of the local phenomenon we shall, for the moment, refer to as gravity. Assuming everything is working correctly, the least gods automatically report in at each interval that everything is working correctly, and in theory the little Terrestrial god responsible for local gravity therefore at their next check-in period files a report that everything is working correctly. These series of hierarchal reports work their way up the Terrestrial chain, up to the point that the Terrestrial gods of gravity in an area are reporting to the Celestial god of Gravity as a concept.

If, however, due to Loom error the object does not fall, the least gods report an error with the little god, who is supposed to use their powers to keep things working in accordance with design schematics while filing a report. This error should be passed up the chain and brought to the notification of the office of the God of Gravity, who files an error report with the Bureau of Destiny notifying them of this Loom glitch. If the Loom spiders have not already fixed it, they will attempt to fix it. If they cannot fix it, it is the job of the Sidereals to act as agents on the ground and troubleshoot this problem.

This, of course, assumes that everything is working as it is meant to. However, your average god in Creation nowadays is some permutation of lazy, overworked, corrupt and apathetic, which means that - for example - they might file their report, but not bother to keep the gravity working while the glitch resolves itself. Or they might not file their report because their boss doesn't like them and will use it as a chance to extort them, and just try to keep things working while they wait for the Loom to naturally fix itself, like it often does. Or they might deliberately let the Loom glitch remain, and use it as a "miracle" to get worship. Or a hundred other things.

This is because gods cannot be trusted, and the Immaculate Order exists for a very good reason - namely, it is a mix of human unionised prayer bargaining (hence why gods hate it) and a tool for punching gods in the face and shouting "Do your fucking jobs you lazy fuckers" at them. Which is something which often has to be done.
 
Wow, the union metaphor really does fit exalted well.

I mean, from a certain point of view the whole primordial war was "divinities local 357" striking for vacation days and safe working conditions.
 
RCa said:
Your union strikes must be very exciting.
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Historically, union strikes getting violent wasn't unusual at all. I remember at least one where gun-armed Pinkertons went in, and that being insufficient, either the army or national guard being called into action to break the strike.
 
So I try to stat-up a character flying around cutting people head off using a Soulsteel Windblade which make me realize something: why does half the Ride charms in Exalted seem to think that you will only use them to ride a mundane horse and not, I don't know, giant demon wasp or flying electrical jellyfish !

And every Ride charms just seem like a copy-pasta from of each other with a limit range of effect just make it more annoying.
 
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Jen said:
So I try to stat-up a character flying around cutting people head off using a Soulsteel Windblade which make me realize something: why does half the Ride charms in Exalted seem to think that you will only use them to ride a mundane horse and not, I don't know, giant demon wasp or flying electrical jellyfish !
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Because something something swords and sorcery, something something doesn't fit the aesthetic something something...
 
Sucal said:
Because something something swords and sorcery, something something doesn't fit the aesthetic something something...
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Nah, riding Windblade is just an example, I actually want those flying jellyfish in Compass: Malfeas more, I could float on the sky all day hugging their fluffy skin ~
 
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EarthScorpion said:
This, of course, assumes that everything is working as it is meant to. However, your average god in Creation nowadays is some permutation of lazy, overworked, corrupt and apathetic, which means that - for example - they might file their report, but not bother to keep the gravity working while the glitch resolves itself. Or they might not file their report because their boss doesn't like them and will use it as a chance to extort them, and just try to keep things working while they wait for the Loom to naturally fix itself, like it often does. Or they might deliberately let the Loom glitch remain, and use it as a "miracle" to get worship. Or a hundred other things.
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Notably, the model put forward in this post relies - at least as an early warning system - on the uncountable quiescent least gods that permeate Creation's structure. Their spiritual anatomy reacts to unnatural occurrences, causing them to sleep-scream tiny silent prayers that gather in number until the local divinity can hear them and respond.

Except Creation's the only place with least gods. Malfeas doesn't have any, since nearly everything's made out of demons or Yoziflesh, and nor does the Underworld, since it's not "real" in the way Creation is. Even the Wyld's a bit lacking, its least gods swollen to bursting or driven mad by the constant influx of exotic Essence.

Therefore, if an area within Creation becomes tainted by another realm - say, a shadowland, or a Cecelorum desert, or a bordermarch - then in addition to the weirdness such contamination normally produces, we can assume that the reduced density of least gods also makes it harder for local deities to pick up on Loom errors. If they were really bothering to do so to begin with.
 
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Aleph said:
Yes, over its knee. Cece Charms needing Cult is a balance point; it means that to get the really powerful effects, you need to spend the time to manage a massive cult and bear the corresponding risks of discovery that come with them. Setting your Cult stat to maximum with an artefact means that you can trivially get around the limitations built into some of her larger-scale Charms with none of the downsides that are constraints on them.
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Hm. With this in mind, what's your opinion on the Twice-Striking Lightning Prism from Oadenol's Codex (4-dot Air hearthstone, spend 1wp to increase your Essence by 2 for a single Charm or spell)? And how would you consider it interacting with the various auto-upgrading Charms? As an example, Unquestionable Yozi Authority at E4: normally Indefinite 5m to prevent demons of (Essence - 2) from attacking at all, at E6 it upgrades to a 0m cost and demons of (Essence - 1) can't attack at all.

Smacking me with Oadenol's Codex is an acceptable answer.
 
RCa said:
Hm. With this in mind, what's your opinion on the Twice-Striking Lightning Prism from Oadenol's Codex (4-dot Air hearthstone, spend 1wp to increase your Essence by 2 for a single Charm or spell)? And how would you consider it interacting with the various auto-upgrading Charms? As an example, Unquestionable Yozi Authority at E4: normally Indefinite 5m to prevent demons of (Essence - 2) from attacking at all, at E6 it upgrades to a 0m cost and demons of (Essence - 1) can't attack at all.
Smacking me with Oadenol's Codex is an acceptable answer.
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There is a reason why in the game I run for Aleph, all hearthstones have been entirely stripped of their powers which are not "I'm a metaphor for oil", and "hearthstone effects" are now the property of the artefact when fed the correct flavour of Essence.

For example, there's a daiklaive which, when fed Fire Aspected essence, ignites as a burning blade which can, once a scene, flare magnesium-bright to blind people as a Crippling effect. If you're a Fire Aspect or a Fire Elemental, you're home laughing. If you're not, you need to socket it with a Fire-aspected hearthstone to get that effect. And because the effect is the property of the artefact, rather than a generic boost, it can be considered with far fewer variables and so is easier to balance.

I would go as far as to say that a majority of canon hearthstone effects are junk, and the TSLP is particularly egregious.
 
EarthScorpion said:
There is a reason why in the game I run for Aleph...

For example, there's a daiklaive which, when fed Fire Aspected essence, ignites as a burning blade which can, once a scene, flare magnesium-bright to blind people as a Crippling effect.
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Whoa, hang on now, what? I haven't seen this thing!

... yet.

...

*paranoia intensifies*

On the other hand, I suppose it's not as though blinding Keris is actually going to, y'know, do anything productive for your chances in a fight. Kek.
 
Aleph said:
Not yet. But once she buys that Charm, it's only a matter of time before she gets the idea.

At the moment, though, she's rather more preoccupied with the fact that she's just accidentally poisoned one of her relationships.

Literally.
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Wait, how does that work? For a moment, I thought you were referring to some Adorjan Charm, but I don't recall any literal poisons there?
 
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