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General Exalted Thread

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Righteousness said:
I don't see where that's coming from. Here, let's look.


It's not actually stating anything outright. It tells us the worlds history is a lie- which isn't related to physics.

As for the rules of how infinite energy work... well, if they don't work as we know them, how do we know they work at all? If Exalted differs from the laws of physics as we know it in our universe, how can we quantify anything from it?
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Are you familiar with the context here? The "wicked old men" are the Technocratic Union. This is basically all but explicit. The physics you're dealing with, that you're arguing make the Exalted's capabilities impossible, are all their justifications for their magic. Those concepts you're talking about? Mass-energy equivalency, thermodynamics, Newton's laws?

They don't exist in Exalted. Pseudo-canonically, they will not exist for millenia, because they are artificial creations enforced by the will of sleeping gods.
 
Righteousness said:
But how can we do that for Exalted if the laws of physics don't even exist in the first place?
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Oh god, we're still doing the 'physical laws of Creation aren't the same as our own' thing?

Look, Righteousness, let me put this in the most bare bone terms possible: IT DOES NOT MATTER. Germs exist in Exalted, but whether their germs or small gods from a functional point doesn't matter in the slightest, because your dying from malaria regardless. Same with the laws of physics: pulley's still work the same way they do IRL, so friction is still a thing, and the underlying causes only matter so your twilight can magibabble. And we know they work because, uh, we have documentation showing us they work (plus some other stuff that doesn't work IRL).

And if you don't mind me asking, why are you so insistent 'but physics'? You want to quantify the effects of the Exalted, look at the materials. It's laid out there. Exalted runs off bullshit magic that occasionally violate the laws of physics as we know them, but its also generally close enough to IRL people can use that as inspiration, odd things like guns aside. You aren't going to get a straight answer to how Exalted maps to physics, because that is left hazy so ST's and writers can do cool shit with it. Well, that and nobody really cares about that outside of playing a very specific character type that is frankly rather foreign to the inspirations of the game as a whole. So why the physics focus?
 
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MJ12 Commando said:
Are you familiar with the context here? The "wicked old men" are the Technocratic Union. This is basically all but explicit. The physics you're dealing with, that you're arguing make the Exalted's capabilities impossible, are all their justifications for their magic. Those concepts you're talking about? Mass-energy equivalency, thermodynamics, Newton's laws?

They don't exist in Exalted. Pseudo-canonically, they will not exist for millenia, because they are artificial creations enforced by the will of sleeping gods.
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Reminds me a bit of the PbP game I ran for a little bit where a Void Engineer ship got kicked back in time by the Avatar Storm and crash-landed in the West. It's a pity it died so quickly, though.
 
So let say there is somebody who like to throw magic sand into people eye using Cece's charms but don't really care for Cult, does an prayer bead Artifact that make you have Cult 5 for the purpose of CC's charms break anything ? (of course you don't get the mote/WP regen since that's just broken)
 
MJ12 Commando said:
Are you familiar with the context here? The "wicked old men" are the Technocratic Union. This is basically all but explicit. The physics you're dealing with, that you're arguing make the Exalted's capabilities impossible, are all their justifications for their magic. Those concepts you're talking about? Mass-energy equivalency, thermodynamics, Newton's laws?
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Yes, I'm perfectly aware of the cosmology... of first edition Exalted. To my knowledge, this was discontinued in 2E. Am I mistaken here?
Kylar said:
And if you don't mind me asking, why are you so insistent 'but physics'? You want to quantify the effects of the Exalted, look at the materials. It's laid out there. Exalted runs off bullshit magic that occasionally violate the laws of physics as we know them, but its also generally close enough to IRL people can use that as inspiration, odd things like guns aside. You aren't going to get a straight answer to how Exalted maps to physics, because that is left hazy so ST's and writers can do cool shit with it. Well, that and nobody really cares about that outside of playing a very specific character type that is frankly rather foreign to the inspirations of the game as a whole. So why the physics focus?
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It came from an argument I had with my friend when I brought up how Exalted's game mechanics are canon in a heated conversation over which was more powerful, Exalted or 40k (terrible idea).

His general argument was that if Exalted did have physics, than things like perfect defenses would be solely game mechanics as a sword could not have enough power to parry a billion gigajoule attack while at the same time it didn't have enough power to do so. And if Exalted didn't have physics, there could be no way we could quantify them as they would have attacks completely alien to ours (example; infinite damage doesn't actually mean infinite damage).

He also pointed out that most of my responses to this were just theories unless backed up with proof, about as good as fan fiction.
 
Righteousness said:
His general argument was that if Exalted did have physics, than things like perfect defenses would be solely game mechanics as a sword could not have enough power to parry a billion gigajoule attack while at the same time it didn't have enough power to do so. And if Exalted didn't have physics, there could be no way we could quantify them as they would have attacks completely alien to ours (example; infinite damage doesn't actually mean infinite damage).
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Exalted has physics. Motonic Physics. They start out at very different points, but add up to the same general results.
 
Righteousness said:
His general argument was that if Exalted did have physics, than things like perfect defenses would be solely game mechanics as a sword could not have enough power to parry a billion gigajoule attack while at the same time it didn't have enough power to do so. And if Exalted didn't have physics, there could be no way we could quantify them as they would have attacks completely alien to ours (example; infinite damage doesn't actually mean infinite damage).
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Then he invalidated his own points as well. The Warp does crazy things that can't be quantified accurately with modern physics, and it is tied into all of 40k's lore.

But ignoring that, comparing the two settings is pretty superfluous imo, because they have very little overlap in their displayed feats. Exalted is a flat world setting where narrative is an actual driving force in the world, and mortals are raised to levels where they can change the very fabric of reality. 40k, on the other hand, is a grim dark galaxy sci-fi that has alien races that strip star systems of any and all life, FTL travel, and a second layer of reality that is paradoxical even unto itself.

The two setting are just too different to compare.
 
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Righteousness said:
It came from an argument I had with my friend when I brought up how Exalted's game mechanics are canon in a heated conversation over which was more powerful, Exalted or 40k (terrible idea).

His general argument was that if Exalted did have physics, than things like perfect defenses would be solely game mechanics as a sword could not have enough power to parry a billion gigajoule attack while at the same time it didn't have enough power to do so. And if Exalted didn't have physics, there could be no way we could quantify them as they would have attacks completely alien to ours (example; infinite damage doesn't actually mean infinite damage).

He also pointed out that most of my responses to this were just theories unless backed up with proof, about as good as fan fiction.
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Yeah, I was afraid of that. *Sigh*. Versus debates.

Pass along to your friend that perfect defenses (and thus the sword) are powered by bullshit magic (much like, oh I don't know, the Chaos Gods, daemons, and the God Emperor of Mankind). Therefore, assuming they are working as intended in-verse, yes they can parry billion gigajoule attacks. Furthermore, there are multiple beings that can throw out that kind of fire power (admittedly, you'd see it more in Heavens Reach) several of which the Exalted were meant to fight, so this is working as intended. Oh, and the Exalted can assert their laws of physics over an area, so they can always do this.

Really, when your counter argument is 'physics don't allow for magic', something has gone very wrong with your argument.
 
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I don't know, the Warp looks like a slightly meaner Wyld. The Chaos Gods as Ishvara/Primordials. Daemons as raksha or demons.

Looks pretty similar there.
 
Returning to the distinction between veteran noble raksha and Ishvara, let's look at them like comic book characters.

Noble raksha are your Wolverines, Iron-Men, and Batmen. Singular figures always retelling the same run of stories centered around the same personal themes, in worlds that narratively revolve around those themes.

Batman's story will always center around Gotham City. His strongest villains never really die, Arkham Asylum will never really rehabilitate or hold them, Gotham will never become less dangerous or corrupt... basically, the situation will never change in such a way that Batman becomes unnecessary or even needs to think of changing his methods. Batman never kills because "Batman never kills" is one of his Defining Principles. As a recent but enduring Major Principle, Batman hates working with equals because he's The Hard Man.

Darksied doesn't give a shit. Batman's story now revolves around him. When Darksied shows up, all of Batman's personal themes become unimportant, Gotham fades into the background, and Batman must either submit to Darksied and become one of his minions, a secondary character to Darksied's story, or Batman must join his story together with other raksha to form the shared narrative of The Justice League who opposes Darksied.

That's an Ishvara. A raksha so powerful, so charismatic, so narratively important that he makes the individual stories of other raksha revolve around him.

Ishvara are not your Lex Luthors, your Lokis, or your Magnetos. They are your Darksieds, your Thanoses, or your Apocalypses.

In "I'm A Marvel, And I'm A DC", Darksied made Joker into just another of his minions and forced the DC and Marvel heroes and villains to drop everything they were doing and focus on him.

In The Avengers, Thanos made Loki into just another of his minions, and forced all of the Marvel heroes, anti-heroes and villains to drop everything they were doing and focus on him.

Apocalypse is going to do the same thing in the X-Men: Age of Apocalypse movie. In his case, his horsemen are raksha nobles he bent into his minions, such as with Angel becoming Archangel.
 
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Jen said:
So let say there is somebody who like to throw magic sand into people eye using Cece's charms but don't really care for Cult, does an prayer bead Artifact that make you have Cult 5 for the purpose of CC's charms break anything ? (of course you don't get the mote/WP regen since that's just broken)
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Yes, over its knee. Cece Charms needing Cult is a balance point; it means that to get the really powerful effects, you need to spend the time to manage a massive cult and bear the corresponding risks of discovery that come with them. Setting your Cult stat to maximum with an artefact means that you can trivially get around the limitations built into some of her larger-scale Charms with none of the downsides that are constraints on them.
 
Aleph said:
Yes, over its knee. Cece Charms needing Cult is a balance point; it means that to get the really powerful effects, you need to spend the time to manage a massive cult and bear the corresponding risks of discovery that come with them. Setting your Cult stat to maximum with an artefact means that you can trivially get around the limitations built into some of her larger-scale Charms with none of the downsides that are constraints on them.
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Is it possible to do without the ST smacking you on the face with the core book?
 
I have a question.

Luna was Gaia's mate, right? Or Gaia's and UCS's.

So why are Lunars solely(?) the mates of Solars?
 
Carrnage said:
Because there's no chosen of gaia.

On a side note are there any decent mechanical representations of the solar lunar bond?
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TAW's isn't bad. In that, it's not some super-special love pact between Lunars and Solars set down by the Incarnae (which Solars can order them about with); it's the Lunar emulating the way that Luna is so rooted in her Intimacies by solidifying and investing in one of them to empower herself when working to aid it. Notably, they can make such Bonds to anyone they have an Intimacy towards (and even groups or places or nations, with the upgrade Charms); there's just a discount for doing it to Solaroid Exalts because the bond is in some respects an anchor of sorts for the protean formlessness of the Lunar's psyche, and what better anchor is there than a pillar of supernatural excellence and peerless might?
 
The disease rule in Exalted is pretty confusing, but I want to ask if there would be any benefit from infecting people with Green Sun Wasting in battle.
 
It'll cause an internal penalty. Green Sun Wasting specifically starts at -1, rising by -1/hour to a maximum -4 (and -8 once a mortal starts actually dying). Note that Cold Fire Desolation Brand at Essence 4+ will immediately cause a full -4 penalty, rather than building up.
 
NemiTheNen said:
I have a question.

Luna was Gaia's mate, right? Or Gaia's and UCS's.

So why are Lunars solely(?) the mates of Solars?
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Luna was made to complement the Unconquered Sun, and to that end also made to be complemented by the Sun.

Luna was only intended to seduce Gaia, not to love her.

Since the Lunar Exalted reflect the nature of their patron, they complement and are complemented by the Solar Exalted. They might have a similar relationship with Gaian Exalted, but none exist.


Matsci said:
I'd disagree. The Lunars, as written, have allway been as much chosen of Gaia as they are the chosen of Luna, if not more so.
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There have been developer comments and hints to the effect that Gaia is becoming more distant from the source of the Terrestrial Exalted and closer to the source of the Lunar Exalted.
 
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So, speaking of Lunar Exalted, when the corebook drops and finally gives us the basic trait and system rules, I'm going to be doing my best to homebrew Lunar Charms.

At present, my biggest inspiration is Inaba Tewi, from Touhou Project.

She's got an obvious totem that informs everything about her (White Hare of Inaba, White Rabbit of Luck), she's highly visible but maintains a deceptive facade that keeps people from realizing or remembering how old and influential she really is, and I appreciate the challenge of writing Attribute-based Charms that provide her with super-human strength, trickery and intelligence while being subtle enough about it that Tewi can maintain her harmless public image.

Anyone else have Lunar inspirations in mind, or explanations for those choices?
 
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