is it just me or can Alchemicals get resting defence really high with just Transpussiant attribute upgrades?
Yeah. Basic hypothetical: You start out at Dex 5, and get the dex upgrade. You're now at 6 Dex, which equals 3 parry or 3 dodge before you even take your skills, other charms, or specialties into account. And this does count against your charm cap but it doesn't cost you motes.

The basic divide between Attribute and Ability based Exalts is that Attribute exalt charms are more broadly applicable, while ability-based are stronger but narrower in scope. Or at least for Excellencies.
 
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The Alchemical's rating in the chosen Attribute increases by one dot, which can increase it above five. This bonus dot is included in her base Attribute rating for meeting Alchemical Charm prerequisites. Dice added by these bonus dots are non-Charm, except for dots over 5.
Source: Alchemicals draft manuscript 3 A


Emphasis mine. If you have Dexterity at five dots through the use of Transpuissant Dexterity Upgrade, then the extra die is non charm. If you have it at six through the use of TDU, it is a charm bonus. This means that if you have dex 6 and that pushes you up from resting parry 5 to resting parry 6, that is a point of charm defence.
 
Hot take: the mass of them should have been Terrestrial from this edition. Maybe with some celestials exceptions like exigents.
They are even as Celestial very rare within the Octet (about 800 between millions of people), and in Creation they're the rarest sort of Celestial Exalt by far. In the context of the original Locust Crusade, I think the about 1,000 in Autochthonia was with the idea that what is in Creation is still a population smaller than the Sidereals are. So in context of Autochthonia as the only real Exalt, not so big a deal. And in context of Creation, the rarest Exalt, so also not a big deal. And unlike Exigents, who are meant to be completely different things, the goals of Terrestrial v. Celestial play kind of lend to ALchemicals being better served by picking one.

In 1e and 2e the Celestial thing was mostly "Not Dragon-Blooded, who suck." In 3e there is a bit of a goal on styles of play and I think context of the impact of a single Exalt. And the kind of Big National Deal that Alchemicals present do to me feel more like something of a Celestial Exalt than Terrestrials there, and allows for clearer sense of long term purpose like becomign cites, avatars of the Machine God and all that.
 
so how much magical material is in an Alchemical anyway? Does it increase when they"unfold" into metropoli?

I'm envisioning a plot hook where an Abyssal wants to find the lost city of Soul steel for presumably nefarious ends.
 
so how much magical material is in an Alchemical anyway? Does it increase when they"unfold" into metropoli?

I'm envisioning a plot hook where an Abyssal wants to find the lost city of Soul steel for presumably nefarious ends.

Not a whole lot, it looks like they're mostly magic clay with Magical Materials making up their Charms, but they seem to be able to synthesize it to a degree, since you don't actually need materials or craftsmen to build them? Rite of Reconfiguration only needs two of the criteria filled to swap something out, and only one of those is a material expense--and that's explicitly expensive reagents, not priceless magical metal.
 
I did not win against time

Intelligence
Cognition

Anticipatory Simulation Processor: Assuming the action involves a diceroll, what does 'likely' mean? For a normal person or a Alchemical with a big dicepool?
Threat Anticipation Matrix: Unironically a Perception Charm for some reason. Alchemicals really need to make better use of alternative prereqs...
Hundredfold Contingency Subprocessor: Woo Contingency points! Love these menu charms. Funny they didn't mention the most likely Ability to be used, Investigation.
Lightning Archive Processor-Institutional Analysis Protocol: We've seen these Lore and Bureaucracy Charms before, but I'm once again going to ask why the Bureaucracy chain has a Lore prereq. Guys, stop sticking prereqs for prereq sake
Instructive Simulation Needle: Teaching Charm! Except you can also pass along intimacies too. Nice that there's an advantage in giving your friends 5 dots of Stealth before the infiltration
Imprinted Data Cluster: More floating dots. Not sure if the dot to XP ratio is good, but it's there.
Logic-Engineering Lobe: They mixed the regular double 9s with some passive benefits this time
Technological Analysis Engrams: Hey, I think I last saw this Charm in Craft. More flexible now, but wow, the prereqs. What is the logic behind prereqs, anyway?
Rhetorical Decryption Lattice: For whatever reason, codebreaking double 9s is it's own Charm. Like TAE, you get to pick your choice of 3 Abilities to use.
Interpolative Syntax Emulator: Oh hey, the language learner Charm. Was wondering where it was after finishing Charisma.
Clarified Data Assimilator: Do you like Clarity?
Semantic Memory Encryption: Forgetting a language to get a bonus to resist mental influence is hilarious. Wo bu hui jiang hua yu
Prescient Leadership Protocols: Retroactive Bureaucracy Charm, you love it
Ineffable Godhead Conduit: "Trust me, seducing the hot cat burglar is key to ending crime" - Batman, probably

A mix of fun stuff and expected stuff, but seriously, stop crossing the streams with prereqs. It's not even like Charms get meaningfully better the more prereqs you have!

Craft
Optimized Design Algorithm: Alchemical standard issue non-Charm sux Charm, except it's also the double... 7, eventually, Charm
Cognitive Architecture Expansion: Extremely funny that there's one specific Charm to get around Alchemical's low base Charm dice limit. At least the devs know how much raw dice Craft needs.
Incomparable Efficiency Upgrade-Champion-Forged Panoply Conduit: The usual
Epiphany-Inducing Neurostimulant: What is the funniest two-dot artifact to instacomplete for this? At E5, you can make free daiklaves with every daiklave you make.
Theoplastic Engineering Protocol: NANOMACHINES that landscape
Aeon-Forging Crucible Core: +1 Terminus is good, right? What's the math on Alchemicals making Artifact 5s? They can have a looootttt of raw dice, thanks to their two base Charms (base 13 Charm dice at E5, plus non-Charm dice from exceptional equipment and Int above 5, then double 7s)

Mostly what you expected.

Healing
Comprehensive Diagnostic Algorithms: Diagnosis Charm with Alchemical rider on community
Multifunction Hypodermic Apparatus: This is like five Medicine Charms in one pick-a-menu. Remote Rescue Drone is funny because shooting health is funny. Great Maker's Mercy Distillation has no effect lol
Biostasis Field Projector: Cool imagery, very robot
Surgical Reconstruction System: Is this standard speed for this kind of healing? Huh, no Solars pay more and cannot reduce it to 1 week

50% of this tree is submodules of one Charm, that's hilarious

Metaphysical
Theurgic Override Matrix-Demiurge Access Key: I am extremely lost why this isn't a social Charm, especially as the Intelligence charmset is already bloated as hell
Thermionic Orthodoxy Array-Ontological Anchor Assembly: Same, but for Stamina.
God-Ward Projector-Automaton Override Array: OK, these kinda make sense in a hacking way, but I'd rather they move the whole thing to Manipulation, which makes equal sense and isn't, you know, already half the document
Theurgic Emulation Converter: Eclipse just isn't that special nowadays.

I wouldn't say this normally, but Intelligence is half the document despite supposedly sharing space with Manipulation and Perception. It's bloated to hell, this section should be somewhere else. This feels like the wizard problem in D&D where every 'smart' thing is automatically Int resulting in their stupidly long spell list of do anything.

Warfare
Tactical Omnibus Implant: Having the basic die manipulation for Warfare split across three Attributes so far is kinda meh. We have the technology to make Charms count for multiple Attributes! Use them!
Wargame Simulation Matrix-Strategos-Commander Synergy Circuits: Boring
Omnistrategic Contingency Protocol: Surprise Army is at least funny

This is a short, boring tree that's entirely about Strategic Maneuvers. Once again, the Intelligence tree is bloated enough already.

Sorcery
Man-Machine Weaving Engine/God-Machine Weaving Engine: Circles
Theurgic Essence Capacitor: I'm sorry, autosux on Shape Sorcery?!
Parallel Protocol Cores: I didn't read this wrong, right? This is straight better than the Lunar/Sideral one, if only for a tiny blip before Celestial

We now know that the best sorcerers are Attribute Exalts. Fact of life. Sidereals roll into a ball and cry. I guess Alchemicals can't hold back sorcerous motes.

This was looooooong. Int sure is a favourite child. Manipulation soon (TM)
 
Guys, stop sticking prereqs for prereq sake
How many prerequisite charms a charm has is like, a point of balance against how much it costs to use, what its Essence and ability/attribute requirements are, and how powerful it is. Stronger effects tend to be deeper into a charm tree, deliberately. There is absolutely a degree of putting in prerequisites for prerequisites sake, that is how charm trees work.
 
Hot take: the mass of them should have been Terrestrial from this edition. Maybe with some celestials exceptions like exigents.

They've always been kind of a weird middle ground. I've heard multiple writers talk about how they were almost treated as Terrestrial in this or that book.

Really, it doesn't much matter which side of the line you put them on.

I think the thing that's impressed me most this time around is the chapter fiction.
I don't begrudge the little vignettes but they don't normally do much for me (I also had the same problem with the 2e comics) it's just not how I process lore, so it's rare I enjoy them so much as recognise their value to others who enjoy grappling with blocks of text a lot less.

It seems like a trend for Alchemicals; their MOEP had some of the best comics in 2e, too.
 
Okay I gotta say, people tend to not use Social stuff from NPC's nearly enough. I had a scene where a essence 4 dragon blood was rolling big dice at my group and they were shitting their fucking pants. The joke I had with her is that she gave off hella siddy vibes but was not actually one.
 
How many prerequisite charms a charm has is like, a point of balance against how much it costs to use, what its Essence and ability/attribute requirements are, and how powerful it is. Stronger effects tend to be deeper into a charm tree, deliberately. There is absolutely a degree of putting in prerequisites for prerequisites sake, that is how charm trees work.
While that's theoretically true, I'm having a hard time seeing what the difference between ones with one prereq and four at the same Ability/Essence rate. These are foundational Bureaucracy Charms in Ability trees I'm talking about here, in particular.
 
It seems like a trend for Alchemicals; their MOEP had some of the best comics in 2e, too.
I think it's a combination of selling the alternate setting and a relative lack of splat baggage.
Like I want to enjoy the Ex3 intro fiction but Eastern Star is written as such an easy heel whose motives can be summarised as "they hate us cos they ain't us" for what might be the first depiction of a Sidereal Exalt someone ever sees.

While that's theoretically true, I'm having a hard time seeing what the difference between ones with one prereq and four at the same Ability/Essence rate. These are foundational Bureaucracy Charms in Ability trees I'm talking about here, in particular.
Well, with Alchemicals there's a hard limit on the number of charms they can have installed at once so prerequisite charms for them map out what a particular load-out might look like. They're the only obstacle determining what a Solar or Abyssal can get their hands on in their chosen field of excellence.

It does matter a lot less for Lunars, Sidereals and Dragon-Blooded. I liked that Dragon-Blooded actively embraced that with their signature charm concept.
 
Okay I gotta say, people tend to not use Social stuff from NPC's nearly enough. I had a scene where a essence 4 dragon blood was rolling big dice at my group and they were shitting their fucking pants. The joke I had with her is that she gave off hella siddy vibes but was not actually one.
Speaking as an ST my long running group always got real weird whenever I would use Social Stuff on them. They didn't like the idea that control of their character's actions in a scene could be dictated to them, dice roll or not.
 
While that's theoretically true, I'm having a hard time seeing what the difference between ones with one prereq and four at the same Ability/Essence rate. These are foundational Bureaucracy Charms in Ability trees I'm talking about here, in particular.
You could have checked if that were true before you posted this.

So, for the sake of clarity, the charms we're talking about are Lightning Archive Processor, Efficient Planning Matrix, and Institutional Analysis Protocol.

Lightning Archive Processor is a basic introduce/challenge fact adder charm that has a secondary effect focused on data retrieval, where you can introduce or challenge a fact without a relevant lore background if you have access to an archive or a library or something that you can use to research. It has four submodules, which are entirely focused around making the latter effect better and more rewarding. No prerequisites.

Efficient Planning Matrix is an Accelerate Projects charm, with an interesting pair of submodules built around preventing and detecting supernatural interference with the organisation in question. One prerequisite, Lightning Archive Processor.

Institutional Analysis Protocol is a Sidereal-style question asker charm where you can ask the ST questions about an organisation you've spent time studying, only it's also Indefinite and gives a bonus to general rolls involving that organisation afterward, based on how many questions you got to ask. It also has nine submodules, ranging from adding additional functionality around social actions taken toward group members to greatly expanding the charm's core functionality. It does a lot. Two prerequisites, in the form of Efficient Planning Matrix and Lightning Archive Processor.

So, we can see if these latter two effects in question are, in fact, "foundational bureaucracy charms in ability trees" pretty easily.

Solars:
Accelerate Projects: Speed the Wheels, one prerequisite (Deft Official's Way)
Investigate an institution: Bureau-Rectifying Method, two prerequisites (Speed the Wheels, Deft Official's Way)

Dragon-Blooded:
Accelerate projects: Dashing Brook Method (one prerequisite, Benevolent Master's Blessing)

Sidereals:
Accelerate projects: Record-Obtaining Inquiry, one prerequisite (Icy Hand)
Investigation an institution: Harvest Ripe Wheat, Father Falling Hay, one prerequisite (Icy Hand)

Abyssals:
Accelerate projects: Efficacious Hierarchy of the Damned, one prerequisite (Subtle Functionary Ways)
Investigation an institution: Eloquent Example Inspiration, two prerequisites (Traitor-Extirpating Instinct, Subtle Functionary Ways)

The only ability charm I'm familiar with for accelerating projects that does not have a prerequisite is Beloved Forewoman Exemplar, which is a Strawmaiden Janest charm that makes up for it by requiring Presence 5 compared to Deft Official's Way only needing Bureaucracy 1.

The number of prerequisites a certain effect needs is frequently something that got determined back in the corebook, and subsequent charms that do the same things that Solar charms do use that as a reference point for charm balance.
 
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I've read too much BLAME!for that to be the case in my brain <_<

BLAME has also been called out as being the main reference for Third Edition's interpretation of Autochthonia's environment! Which I like because good gravy those were some nice environments.

The upside is that the Safeguard isn't a broken mess and is actually trying to do their job, which makes things dramatically better by definition.
 
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Sticking to the corebook's example might not be a good idea, because the corebook has some baffling prereq setups. Solar Medicine has five prereqs on its double-7s Charm, which can only be used once per story for some reason. Black Fathoms Blessed requires any ten Sail Charms, but no specific ones, despite its obvious connection to Shipwreck-Surviving Stamina. Things get really squirrelly at the tops of the Solar trees.
 
Sticking to the corebook's example might not be a good idea, because the corebook has some baffling prereq setups. Solar Medicine has five prereqs on its double-7s Charm, which can only be used once per story for some reason. Black Fathoms Blessed requires any ten Sail Charms, but no specific ones, despite its obvious connection to Shipwreck-Surviving Stamina. Things get really squirrelly at the tops of the Solar trees.
1) It's the CORE book. It's what the entire system is built around. They're kinda forced into using the corebook's example, unless the corebook and/or the Solar charmset gets a full rewrite (which I secretly hope for even though it will never happen until a hypothetical 4th edition)

2) Solars and their derivatives are forced into having numerous prereqs for their abilities because of supernals/apocalyptics/whatever infernals end up calling their equivalent. Essence level can be used for most of the splats to limit their power, but with Solars, you have to consider the possibility that the player is going to be able to ignore the essence requirement. I just built an Abyssal with Piercing Gaze of the Unmaker, an absolutely busted ability to have at chargen, only balanced out by the fact it took like 10 charms total to reach it so I couldn't really *get* much else.
 
Also, god damn, the further the line goes, the more dated the Solar Charmset becomes, here's hoping the team can get enough cachet to do a major rewrite of them to the same level.
 
So, we can see if these latter two effects in question are, in fact, "foundational bureaucracy charms in ability trees" pretty easily.

Solars:
Accelerate Projects: Speed the Wheels, one prerequisite (Deft Official's Way)
Investigate an institution: Bureau-Rectifying Method, two prerequisites (Speed the Wheels, Deft Official's Way)

Dragon-Blooded:
Accelerate projects: Dashing Brook Method (one prerequisite, Benevolent Master's Blessing)

Sidereals:
Accelerate projects: Record-Obtaining Inquiry, one prerequisite (Icy Hand)
Investigation an institution: Harvest Ripe Wheat, Father Falling Hay, one prerequisite (Icy Hand)

Abyssals:
Accelerate projects: Efficacious Hierarchy of the Damned, one prerequisite (Subtle Functionary Ways)
Investigation an institution: Eloquent Example Inspiration, two prerequisites (Traitor-Extirpating Instinct, Subtle Functionary Ways)
That said, they could have made Transpussiant Intelligence Upgrade the prereq, which would allow them to avoid having to pick up an unrelated Charm.

In general, there's a lot of blips on the Alchemical tree where it seems they wanted a certain ability charm but not it's natural prereqs in the ability tree, so they try to ply an equal number of prereqs but this ends up with you being 'Charm taxed' to get stuff sideways to your character focus. Oddly, I don't recall this for the equally Attribute Lunars or Architects. Also, they really are underutilising cross Attribute Charms.
 
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