General Exalted Thread

[Aleph]

What I was thinking was you'd sacrifice an E4 spirit with both the Intimacy and the Virtue at 4. For Keris, for example, I'd think it might work with a Decanthrope, which have E4, Conviction 4, and who actively go out and try to find the best mortals they can in order to enslave and turn into their puppet bodies.

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Actually I'm pretty sure that metaphysically, decanthropes just kill them. Also, they're not slavers in the sense that she interprets the term - they're not human, have no organisational backing, and have nothing whatsoever to do with trading in slaves.

... I should probably clarify that Keris doesn't hate slavers because she has, I dunno, some sort of deep moral objection to the concept of taking another person's freedom away. She's Compassion 3, yes, so she feels sympathetic for people who have their lives ruined by such things, but that's basically icing on a cake that was made way, way before she hit Compassion 3. No, she hates slavers because they hurt her, personally, and because with Kasseni dead she's spread that grudge to anyone even remotely implicated in the organisation that she worked for. She doesn't give a flying fuck about demons she doesn't know killing mortals she doesn't know to use their bodies as puppets, unless it's happening right in front of her and pings her Compassion in how they're doing it. It's that 4-dot "Get Revenge" Principle that's driving the side of her that sends her after slaver bands. Most of the time she largely ignores the slaves, though she does generally free them and point them in a direction that'll give them a good chance of survival as an afterthought.

Also, First Circle writeups that have an average member of the species being higher than E2 are a thing to be deeply, deeply suspicious of. E3 and especially E4 should be things that only exceptional members of a breed of First Circle can reach, after sustained effort and enormous discipline and growth.

Hey @Aleph , @EarthScorpion how did Keris's Po Soul.... not so much come into being, as much as become self aware?

And Branching off that, how would you recommend someone to handle the Pantheon and Po Souls of an Infernal?

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Oh, it's not self-aware. It's a po soul. It's the seat of her power, the source of her instincts and her capacity for true depth of feeling. But it is fundamentally one of her souls - one of the two that she's had the longest, indeed - and so I decided that it should probably be in her Domain somewhere.

As for where it came from OOC, after she stole literally everything from her Tomb the second time around, we were faced with the choice of either cataloguing all of it or representing it with an Arcaneum-esque "giant pile of occult junk she can dig through" Background, which was much more palatable. But that required a justification for why she couldn't have more than a bit out at a time... and that's when I had the idea of "lawl, she loves her treasure, that's one of her base instincts, so her po soul can totally steal it and then refuse to give it back. : 3"

As to how to handle them, in what sense do you mean? Thinking up what they're like, or how to handle them in play?

 

[Anasurimbor]

Essence Aspect: Any; Favoured Aspect: Necrotic

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Essence Aspect (Necrotic): The gem also traps the calcified and mutilated hun. They retain full awareness of what was done to them, although insanity often results from such a torturous existence. The destruction of the gem destroys the trapped soul too.

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I haven't seen Essence Aspect before. Does this mean that it is extra horrible when cast by an Abyssal or other deathly beings?

 

[Chloe Sullivan]

Combat shame, find lore, something about using her powers for righteous reasons (e.g. protecting the weak; I'm not too clear on it. It used to be fucking up the All-Seeing Eye, but then the player changed it because that's fucking hard), and... @Chloe Sullivan, what's Blossom's Motivation?

The second one is planning on switching characters soon (once it can be explained in-game as his current character leaving and his new one "mysteriously" showing up shortly afterward), but I've got something lined up for him.
The benefactors are all going to be characters that easily ping their Motivations, basically. So far, they haven't really interacted with the wider world a whole lot in this campaign, and this is an easy way for me to push them in various directions while I learn how to do it more naturally (because I'm not very good at this part of GMing).

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Blossom's Motivation is basically "get people to medicine right, especially the gorram DB's"

Janusi was of the opinion that those medicine charms are for helping people in need, not extending dynast drug binges. Blossom tends to agree. This may also, at times extend to "melee charms are for defending the weak, not abusing them" with a little prompting. But blossom is first and foremost a doctor.

Also, I should probably have mentioned her DB fellow student she was possibly in love with before her exaltation, who betrayed her as part of a dynastic squabble with another of Janusi's students, resulting in Blossom only managing to hold onto the heartstone bracers (and hearthstone) of Janusi's. Denival ran off for the blessed isle with Janusi's Satchel of Healing and Resplendent Personal Assistant, and Perindul has most of the notes and scrolls (Blossom needs to go steal those at some point). And the weapons and armor and crap but who cares about those?

 

[Aleph]

I haven't seen Essence Aspect before. Does this mean that it is extra horrible when cast by an Abyssal or other deathly beings?

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It means that it has an extra effect when cast by something with Necrotic Essence; as detailed.

 

[Romantic_Kaiju]

Oh, it's not self-aware. It's a po soul. It's the seat of her power, the source of her instincts and her capacity for true depth of feeling. But it is fundamentally one of her souls - one of the two that she's had the longest, indeed - and so I decided that it should probably be in her Domain somewhere.

As for where it came from OOC, after she stole literally everything from her Tomb the second time around, we were faced with the choice of either cataloguing all of it or representing it with an Arcaneum-esque "giant pile of occult junk she can dig through" Background, which was much more palatable. But that required a justification for why she couldn't have more than a bit out at a time... and that's when I had the idea of "lawl, she loves her treasure, that's one of her base instincts, so her po soul can totally steal it and then refuse to give it back. : 3"

As to how to handle them, in what sense do you mean? Thinking up what they're like, or how to handle them in play?

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Thinking about what they be Like, and how to handle them in play, For example Keris's Pantheon Souls developed in iconic situations reminiscent the Charms that they are based upon from my reading of the Character Sheet.

One of the Charms on my character Sheet is Sun-Heart Furnace Soul, and both me and my ST like the Pantheon keyword, and what it means to the Infernals, and would like to include it in our game.

I was wondering how Me and my ST to handle the Soul becoming aware, as well as what it would be like.

As for handling them in play, I figured I would treat them as Third Circle Deva Generated by Devil Tiger tree, except rather than starting as high essence, they would grow as the PC would, not simply in power, but also intelligence.

 

[emeraldstreak]

So they left Yasal crystals and Twice-Striking Lightning Prism in 3E.

 

[Alectai]

So they left Yasal crystals and Twice-Striking Lightning Prism in 3E.

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Yasal Crystals are capped at Essence 2 (Which is... Pretty weak honestly), and only "Minor spirits and young Ghosts" are eligible targets. In short, you get a tiny bit of magic out of them, and then you let them go. There's no really, really cheesy way to exploiting them.

Twice-Striking Lightning Prism only works if you're taking an action in support of a Defining Intimacy, and only adds +1 Essence for the purpose of calculating effects.

Either way, they're hardly gamebreaking.

 

[emeraldstreak]

Yasal Crystals are capped at Essence 2 (Which is... Pretty weak honestly), and only "Minor spirits and young Ghosts" are eligible targets. In short, you get a tiny bit of magic out of them, and then you let them go. There's no really, really cheesy way to exploiting them.

Twice-Striking Lightning Prism only works if you're taking an action in support of a Defining Intimacy, and only adds +1 Essence for the purpose of calculating effects.

Either way, they're hardly gamebreaking.

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[Alectai]

I'm, sorry? I'm not following.

Is it just because the existence of these things is fundamentally bad? Even if they're relatively well balanced with the rest of the game?

 

[emeraldstreak]

I'm, sorry? I'm not following.

Is it just because the existence of these things is fundamentally bad? Even if they're relatively well balanced with the rest of the game?

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You're either very naive or trolling. Or a 3E playtester

Yeah, a great deal of things could (in 2E) and will (in 3E) be broken "just" by widely available low-essence Spirit charms or "only 1" Essence more.

But that's not all. When a balance-wracking class of effect is introduced, it's only a matter of time before it bloats in various exploit-y ways. TIme is ticking till larger portable Yasals are introduced as they were in 2E (at 5 Essence) or enterprising players find ways to tap non-portable Yasals (up to 8 Essence). Or craft rules are introduced that allow Solars to outright create this kind of effect, but more powerful, in artifacts or hearthstones. Same goes for "more powerful" Lightning Prisms, except that even +1 Essence is enough to tip the scales and break the game at plenty of weak points.

 

[Alectai]

... Umm, so, you're essentially arguing that because players are gamist idiots, that the fact that an effect exists means that clearly players will take them to the end of their least and most STs will allow them to?

And... We don't even Know what Spirit Charms look lke yet, but if they're practicing what they're preaching, a low Essence Spirit Charm isn't... Actually going to be that good outside of it's domain, and pretty good inside it? But most Spirits on the level that a Yasal Crystal caps at are going to be lesser River or Road gods, which don't really help you much if you're climbing a mountain.

I mean, nothing of what you just argued actually has any impact on the core, you're literally taking a potentially objectionable point and saying that "Clearly because something exists on a low level, it must also be trivial to expand to a gamebreaking level because reasons, and is a sure sign that the game is as broken as Second Edition ever was."

There's certainly issues with Third Edition, the fact that Martial Arts and Craft are vast XP sinks that encourage you to either go all in or not at all, but "Two effects exist. Clearly this is a sure sign that gamebreaking advanced versions all exist and will Definitely show up, and thus, the game is broken" Is more a problem with players being munchkin fucktards then a problem with the setting.

 

[Chloe Sullivan]

... Umm, so, you're essentially arguing that because players are gamist idiots, that the fact that an effect exists means that clearly players will take them to the end of their least and most STs will allow them to?

And... We don't even Know what Spirit Charms look lke yet, but if they're practicing what they're preaching, a low Essence Spirit Charm isn't... Actually going to be that good outside of it's domain, and pretty good inside it? But most Spirits on the level that a Yasal Crystal caps at are going to be lesser River or Road gods, which don't really help you much if you're climbing a mountain.

I mean, nothing of what you just argued actually has any impact on the core, you're literally taking a potentially objectionable point and saying that "Clearly because something exists on a low level, it must also be trivial to expand to a gamebreaking level because reasons."

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It's emeraldstreak, he assumes max-gamist is how exalted should be played.

His past history on this thread consists mostly of denying that glaring issues with design philosophy are actually problematic becaus he can patch past them and challenging anyone to build a X that can beat his Y or else they are clearly lying about inherent weaknesses in Y's design space.

 

[azoicennead]

Blossom's Motivation is basically "get people to medicine right, especially the gorram DB's"

Janusi was of the opinion that those medicine charms are for helping people in need, not extending dynast drug binges. Blossom tends to agree. This may also, at times extend to "melee charms are for defending the weak, not abusing them" with a little prompting. But blossom is first and foremost a doctor.

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Excellent! That's about what I expected. This means I don't need to change my idea for the one that'll contact Blossom, just refine it.

Also, I should probably have mentioned her DB fellow student she was possibly in love with before her exaltation, who betrayed her as part of a dynastic squabble with another of Janusi's students, resulting in Blossom only managing to hold onto the heartstone bracers (and hearthstone) of Janusi's. Denival ran off for the blessed isle with Janusi's Satchel of Healing and Resplendent Personal Assistant, and Perindul has most of the notes and scrolls (Blossom needs to go steal those at some point). And the weapons and armor and crap but who cares about those?

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This is useful information...

challenging anyone to build a X that can beat his Y or else they are clearly lying about inherent weaknesses in Y's design spaaaaaace.

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Oh, right, that discussion. I thought they were familiar.

 

[Giygas]

"Two effects exist. Clearly this is a sure sign that gamebreaking advanced versions all exist and will Definitely show up, and thus, the game is broken" Is more a problem with players being munchkin fucktards then a problem with the setting.

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While it is true that the Yasal Cristal is a low level effect, the Twice-Striking Lightning Prism is a Greater Hearthstone, which basically means that it is one of the upper tier effects.

So your phrase is only valid for one of the two things.

 

[Alectai]

And despite being an Upper Tier Effect, it's Still not ridiculous, because it's once per scene, and requires you to be acting in the furtherance of a Defining Motivation.

Yes, it raises your Essence, and that makes things more powerful, but it's neither permanent, and requires you to be directly working for a character detail, one that you're explicitly warned against making omniapplicable.

 

[Aleph]

Thinking about what they be Like, and how to handle them in play, For example Keris's Pantheon Souls developed in iconic situations reminiscent the Charms that they are based upon from my reading of the Character Sheet.

One of the Charms on my character Sheet is Sun-Heart Furnace Soul, and both me and my ST like the Pantheon keyword, and what it means to the Infernals, and would like to include it in our game.

I was wondering how Me and my ST to handle the Soul becoming aware, as well as what it would be like.

As for handling them in play, I figured I would treat them as Third Circle Deva Generated by Devil Tiger tree, except rather than starting as high essence, they would grow as the PC would, not simply in power, but also intelligence.

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Well, I tend to have a good idea of what Keris's souls will be like when they're grown up - Echo, Rathan and Haneyl are all well-established in theme and personality, and I have ideas for Vali and Calesco. Keris tends to partition a lot, so her souls are:

• The Yozi influence she's imbibed - Echo's domain is largely her Adorjan stuff, whereas Rathan is lord of the waters and her Kimberian things (except for poisons, which are under Dulmea's auspice), Haneyl will be associated with a lot of her Metagoiyn stuff, etc. Though she doesn't always keep it pure - Rathan and Haneyl are likely to be influenced by Metagaos/Kimbery Shintais respectively, and Vali's nature is going to see him stealing Metagaoiyn stealth and Malfean toughness for his aesthetics and thematics.
• Her Principles, when they're awoken - Echo is Be Loved, Rathan is Get Revenge, Haneyl is Possessiveness/Be Rich And Comfortable, etc etc etc.
• Stemming from both of these, they're parts of her - Echo is her joy and carefreeness, but her nature as Adorjan's killing winds and her refraction through Keris's Be Loved Principle mean that she's also Keris's tendency to hurt the things she loves. Rathan is Kimberian innocence and harmlessness, but also her Get Revenge Principle, which combined make him rather "it was justified! It was self-defence!" - her sense of righteous (and creatively poetic) justice. Haneyl, when she turns up, is to a large extent the part of Keris that is trying to be like Sasi. Dulmea is her caution and sense of motherhood, her po is literally her Id, etcetera.

So I look at those things. First I think about what they'll be like inherently by looking at what the Charm does - Silence In Her Wake is an AoE attack in a combat tree, so Echo's base nature is to hurt everything she touches; Carmine Mantled Emissary stops people from remembering bad things about you and stems from a bunch of "I look innocent and vulnerable" Charms, so Rathan is a martyr who wants everyone to be sympathetic and coo over him. Etc.

Then I work out how that will refract through and combine with whatever Principle I'm imbuing them with via Titanic Heart Overweening to make them fully sapient. "Hurt everything I touch" + "Be Loved" = "my love hurts things" - which is entirely true; Keris's passing fits of affection and use of Tragic Love Amusement leave a trail of corpses and chaos in her way, and she internalised the fact that her love tends to hurt people more often than not back with Ogi.

And then I work out what they'll look like by backtracking their grown-up thematics to their pre-Principle-fed-sapience state. That's partly imagination and partly stealing thematics from actual Third Circles. Echo is a loli wind-waif and an afterimage behind Keris, much like the Csend, but she's also an inverted version of Keris herself, with the human and angyalka proportions flipped. Rathan is a Red Moon like Ululaya, who pushes and pulls on emotions. Haneyl, when she turns up, will be a little Metagaoiyn dryad of the mangrove tree of human-faced fruit that represents Keris's Self-Seed Infestation. They're not grown up yet, or even fully sapient - that's important; the Pantheon keyword alone just makes insensate souls that aren't truly self-aware in their own right - so they're all infant or child forms who'll grow older and more developed as she boosts them with Charmtech. Echo started out about as smart as a cat, and a large part of why she's now at around "four-year old" level is likely because Keris treated her as one and Dulmea (possibly futilely) tried to teach her things like "manners" and "tea ceremony" and "not stalk-pounce-murdering musician-serfs".

As for them becoming self-aware, that would probably involve a longish stunt and/or a piece of short fiction. At least, that's what it'll involve when Keris gets there. Rathan's birth actually occurred during downtime, but ES and I decided that the trippy dream-vision question where she gave birth to a new soul which was also a moon after swimming up into the sky of her Devil-Domain from the bubbling lake that her Kimberian social Charms had been rooted in was probably not the best way to start off the publicised doc containing her various exploits. Echo didn't have a birth sequence of her own, since she had to come into existence prior to the Devil-Domain forming (though I suppose technically Keris's heavily-stunted run with Adorjan counted for much the same thing).

 

[emeraldstreak]

... Umm, so, you're essentially arguing that because players are gamist idiots, that the fact that an effect exists means that clearly players will take them to the end of their least and most STs will allow them to?

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So you're arguing in favor of the writers putting system traps in the corebook, to be banned by all knowledgeable STs, or to bomb the games of all less-knowledgeable STs; and to waste corebook space on top of that

And... We don't even Know what Spirit Charms look lke yet, but if they're practicing what they're preaching, a low Essence Spirit Charm isn't... Actually going to be that good outside of it's domain, and pretty good inside it? But most Spirits on the level that a Yasal Crystal caps at are going to be lesser River or Road gods, which don't really help you much if you're climbing a mountain.

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Some things that can be done with low-level Spirit charms in 2E: rewrite anyone's Motivation without chance to resist; damage immunity; completely break travel in Creation; greatly empower mortals. While I'm giving the 3E's ones the benefit of the doubt, chances are something will slip through the cracks.

I mean, nothing of what you just argued actually has any impact on the core, you're literally taking a potentially objectionable point and saying that "Clearly because something exists on a low level, it must also be trivial to expand to a gamebreaking level because reasons, and is a sure sign that the game is as broken as Second Edition ever was."

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Umm? There might be some miniscule chance low-Essence Spirit charms cannot be broken; but there is zero chance +1 Essence won't be broken.

There's certainly issues with Third Edition, the fact that Martial Arts and Craft are vast XP sinks that encourage you to either go all in or not at all, but "Two effects exist. Clearly this is a sure sign that gamebreaking advanced versions all exist and will Definitely show up, and thus, the game is broken" Is more a problem with players being munchkin fucktards then a problem with the setting.

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You presume to be know the Third Edition. Are you playtester by chance? You certainly fit the bill

On the contrary, I, for now, don't presume to know 3E. What I know is how games build and break - at a legendary level - and when I mark something as a breaking fault point, chances are it will be.

As for you trying to blame "gamists" ("optimizers", "minmaxers", munchkins", whatever)...well...I wouldn't be too worried about them. They are better at sensing the broken stuff and either countering it with other broken stuff or banning it. As with 2E's lethality problems, the usual victims of bad game design are regular players like you, not me.

 

[landcollector]

On the contrary, I, for now, don't presume to know 3E. What I know is how games build and break - at a legendary level - and when I mark something as a breaking fault point, chances are it will be.

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Wow, the pretentiousness here is overwhelming.

 

[Alectai]

I'm not a playtester. I Have read the leaked pre-layout draft though.

Anyway, it's pretty clear you're just looking to start a fight. I've said my piece, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Deations]

So you're arguing in favor of the writers putting system traps in the corebook, to be banned by all knowledgeable STs, or to bomb the games of all less-knowledgeable STs; and to waste corebook space on top of that

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No? No he was not. Wow, chill.

I'm not a playtester. I Have read the leaked pre-layout draft though.

Anyway, it's pretty clear you're just looking to start a fight. I've said my piece, so I'll leave it at that.

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My response to him was going to be a lot longer but then I read this.

 

[azoicennead]

Some things that can be done with low-level Spirit charms in 2E: rewrite anyone's Motivation without chance to resist; damage immunity; completely break travel in Creation; greatly empower mortals. While I'm giving the 3E's ones the benefit of the doubt, chances are something will slip through the cracks.

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Let's see...
I see no charm that allows this. Like, at all.
At Essence 5, they can use a charm to become immune to their domain. A universally applicable charm is Essence 7. That's... so far from "low-level Spirit charms" I don't know how you reached that conclusion.
No. Their travel charms aren't that strong.
... And? They're still mortals. This just moves them to a slightly less shitty part of the stick.

So... Yep, gonna write you off now unless you can cite charms that actually provide these effects in a way that's, y'know, actually going to break the game.

 

[Deations]

Let's see...
I see no charm that allows this. Like, at all.
At Essence 5, they can use a charm to become immune to their domain. A universally applicable charm is Essence 7. That's... so far from "low-level Spirit charms" I don't know how you reached that conclusion.
No. Their travel charms aren't that strong.
... And? They're still mortals. This just moves them to a slightly less shitty part of the stick.

So... Yep, gonna write you off now unless you can cite charms that actually provide these effects in a way that's, y'know, actually going to break the game.

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Not to mention that a mortal has to have a spirit in the Crystal in the first place. A cooperative one, at that.

 

[Chloe Sullivan]

Excellent! That's about what I expected. This means I don't need to change my idea for the one that'll contact Blossom, just refine it.

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As an eclipse, Blossom has developed a very sensible wariness of making deals. Mostly because she knows how... unfortunate her own anima power can be.

This is useful information...

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Keep in mind, this all happened *before* she exalted. Dew on the Blossom was doing pretty well for herself as an Heroic mortal, up until her teacher died and the Great houses started stripping the threshold for resources for their dynastic spat (including the possessions of the dead Rangara expat) and everything went to pot.

No, exalting a week after her sorta-boyfriend abandoned her in flight from the superior forces of the rival DB with a claim to ol' Janusi's legacy, was not much compensation for losing her whole life up till then. Especially given that most of that week was spent slogging through the nastiest marsh ever while ducking the trackers Perinul sent after her. Bastard probably would have caught her if he came himself, but he always did underestimate the unexalted.

This does mean that everyone back in her hometown thinks she's dead, most of them probably figuring that Perinul's goons murdered her. Feel free to bring up old relations as plot pieces.

 

[Romantic_Kaiju]

Well, I tend to have a good idea of what Keris's souls will be like when they're grown up - Echo, Rathan and Haneyl are all well-established in theme and personality, and I have ideas for Vali and Calesco. Keris tends to partition a lot, so her souls are:

• The Yozi influence she's imbibed - Echo's domain is largely her Adorjan stuff, whereas Rathan is lord of the waters and her Kimberian things (except for poisons, which are under Dulmea's auspice), Haneyl will be associated with a lot of her Metagoiyn stuff, etc. Though she doesn't always keep it pure - Rathan and Haneyl are likely to be influenced by Metagaos/Kimbery Shintais respectively, and Vali's nature is going to see him stealing Metagaoiyn stealth and Malfean toughness for his aesthetics and thematics.
• Her Principles, when they're awoken - Echo is Be Loved, Rathan is Get Revenge, Haneyl is Possessiveness/Be Rich And Comfortable, etc etc etc.
• Stemming from both of these, they're parts of her - Echo is her joy and carefreeness, but her nature as Adorjan's killing winds and her refraction through Keris's Be Loved Principle mean that she's also Keris's tendency to hurt the things she loves. Rathan is Kimberian innocence and harmlessness, but also her Get Revenge Principle, which combined make him rather "it was justified! It was self-defence!" - her sense of righteous (and creatively poetic) justice. Haneyl, when she turns up, is to a large extent the part of Keris that is trying to be like Sasi. Dulmea is her caution and sense of motherhood, her po is literally her Id, etcetera.

So I look at those things. First I think about what they'll be like inherently by looking at what the Charm does - Silence In Her Wake is an AoE attack in a combat tree, so Echo's base nature is to hurt everything she touches; Carmine Mantled Emissary stops people from remembering bad things about you and stems from a bunch of "I look innocent and vulnerable" Charms, so Rathan is a martyr who wants everyone to be sympathetic and coo over him. Etc.

Then I work out how that will refract through and combine with whatever Principle I'm imbuing them with via Titanic Heart Overweening to make them fully sapient. "Hurt everything I touch" + "Be Loved" = "my love hurts things" - which is entirely true; Keris's passing fits of affection and use of Tragic Love Amusement leave a trail of corpses and chaos in her way, and she internalised the fact that her love tends to hurt people more often than not back with Ogi.

And then I work out what they'll look like by backtracking their grown-up thematics to their pre-Principle-fed-sapience state. That's partly imagination and partly stealing thematics from actual Third Circles. Echo is a loli wind-waif and an afterimage behind Keris, much like the Csend, but she's also an inverted version of Keris herself, with the human and angyalka proportions flipped. Rathan is a Red Moon like Ululaya, who pushes and pulls on emotions. Haneyl, when she turns up, will be a little Metagaoiyn dryad of the mangrove tree of human-faced fruit that represents Keris's Self-Seed Infestation. They're not grown up yet, or even fully sapient - that's important; the Pantheon keyword alone just makes insensate souls that aren't truly self-aware in their own right - so they're all infant or child forms who'll grow older and more developed as she boosts them with Charmtech. Echo started out about as smart as a cat, and a large part of why she's now at around "four-year old" level is likely because Keris treated her as one and Dulmea (possibly futilely) tried to teach her things like "manners" and "tea ceremony" and "not stalk-pounce-murdering musician-serfs".

As for them becoming self-aware, that would probably involve a longish stunt and/or a piece of short fiction. At least, that's what it'll involve when Keris gets there. Rathan's birth actually occurred during downtime, but ES and I decided that the trippy dream-vision question where she gave birth to a new soul which was also a moon after swimming up into the sky of her Devil-Domain from the bubbling lake that her Kimberian social Charms had been rooted in was probably not the best way to start off the publicised doc containing her various exploits. Echo didn't have a birth sequence of her own, since she had to come into existence prior to the Devil-Domain forming (though I suppose technically Keris's heavily-stunted run with Adorjan counted for much the same thing).

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Thanks Aleph That Was very Helpful.

 

[emeraldstreak]

Let's see...
I see no charm that allows this. Like, at all.
At Essence 5, they can use a charm to become immune to their domain. A universally applicable charm is Essence 7. That's... so far from "low-level Spirit charms" I don't know how you reached that conclusion.
No. Their travel charms aren't that strong.
... And? They're still mortals. This just moves them to a slightly less shitty part of the stick.

So... Yep, gonna write you off now unless you can cite charms that actually provide these effects in a way that's, y'know, actually going to break the game.

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Oh, no, don't "write me in". I pass.

See, that's what is so great about you guys. First, you are really really bad at optimization. Yet simultaneously, you're oblivious and in denial there might be somebody better than you in the entire world.

Had Exalted been a computer game with an impartial silicon judge, I'd just casually defeat your laughable arguments and move on; in fact I wouldn't even have to as that'd be done by any number of acolytes of the meta I create who set newbies straight. But here, everyone feels entitled to opine and opine and move goal posts and finally draw the trump card "OK, OK, but no sensible ST would allow that, so it doesn't count".

You are so refreshingly funny and clueless and you don't even know it. I just love it here as it is.