Holden Deez nutz lmao

But seriously no. It hard to come off coherent when phone typing. And I have no idea what prompted that question, unless it's a joke I'm missing.
You keep saying stuff like "I made..." and I wasn't sure if you were talking about the Exalted vs WoD made by holden or if you'd made your own attempt at the idea.
Speaking only for myself as a somewhat frustrated world builder, there isn't a terrible lot of motivation to spend any effort on building sandcastles that exist to be kicked over.
That's fair, but part of the fun of RPGs like Exalted is being able to enact radical change on the setting. Its what drew me to the setting in the first place.
 
You keep saying stuff like "I made..." and I wasn't sure if you were talking about the Exalted vs WoD made by holden or if you'd made your own attempt at the idea.

That's fair, but part of the fun of RPGs like Exalted is being able to enact radical change on the setting. Its what drew me to the setting in the first place.
Nah it's just the way I talk. I wouldn't in a billion years have enough time to build something like that.
 
Speaking only for myself as a somewhat frustrated world builder, there isn't a terrible lot of motivation to spend any effort on building sandcastles that exist to be kicked over.
Oddly, I've generally found it to be the opposite? There's a lot of energy and dynamism to be found in writing a locale that's just a complete garbage fire so that it's overflowing with directions the players could take it, such that they can't help but knock it over.
 
Oddly, I've generally found it to be the opposite? There's a lot of energy and dynamism to be found in writing a locale that's just a complete garbage fire so that it's overflowing with directions the players could take it, such that they can't help but knock it over.

Pretty much. I find it boring to write a stable location. Give me 3+ power groups who all want something, and who are in enough dynamic tension that a circle of PCs can cause radical changes by blundering around doing PCs things (for better or worse).

(in other words read Damnation City and follow its advice about setting up power structures in games)
 
1: I really enjoy Exalts as beings who, by their very existence, radically alter the nature of the setting.
I concur. In Creation, for instance, I'm a big fan of the newly emerged Solar Exalted! :V They're a very interesting paradigm shift to the nature of the setting for the past fifteen hundred years or so.

Very fun!
 
I mean, you joke but that's what drew me to Exalted in the first place.

Much as I gripe, that is also what drew me to Exalted in the first place. I just prefer when Creation fights back a bit before rolling over. It makes the victory feel earned. When you take over the kingdom after one superboosted social combo it feels, to me, like saying you are superman by making the world into cardboard.
 
Much as I gripe, that is also what drew me to Exalted in the first place. I just prefer when Creation fights back a bit before rolling over. It makes the victory feel earned. When you take over the kingdom after one superboosted social combo it feels, to me, like saying you are superman by making the world into cardboard.
It sounds like you're disagreeing with me, but I agree with you on this.

Which means that a miracle has occurred, and two people agree on the internet!
 
Speaking only for myself as a somewhat frustrated world builder, there isn't a terrible lot of motivation to spend any effort on building sandcastles that exist to be kicked over.
Viewing it as "building sandcastles" is, I think, the wrong approach - especially with a game like Exalted.
I prefer to think of it more like building an anthill. When players decide to kick them over or start shoving their nose into things, the FunTM begins. Honestly, I think the only time I've seen a setting not be notably altered by the passing of the player characters is in one-shots or games where it's a significant assumption that the PCs are unimportant. Exalted is just a game where the weight of the actions taken by the player characters is given extra weight as part of the system rather than left to the GM to sort out.

... I mean, it's kind of a spiteful outlook to build a setting with a mindset of "how will I cause problems for players who wreck my clever ideas" but it's also a much more enjoyable way to do it, in my experience.
 
Viewing it as "building sandcastles" is, I think, the wrong approach - especially with a game like Exalted.
I prefer to think of it more like building an anthill. When players decide to kick them over or start shoving their nose into things, the FunTM begins. Honestly, I think the only time I've seen a setting not be notably altered by the passing of the player characters is in one-shots or games where it's a significant assumption that the PCs are unimportant. Exalted is just a game where the weight of the actions taken by the player characters is given extra weight as part of the system rather than left to the GM to sort out.

... I mean, it's kind of a spiteful outlook to build a setting with a mindset of "how will I cause problems for players who wreck my clever ideas" but it's also a much more enjoyable way to do it, in my experience.

Notably altered is not only fine, but a goal. Ignored because the player characters are so powerful that the details might as well be interchangeable for how much they have to consider them is different.

Ideally, players would want to explore and engage with the details rather than bulldozing over them without even looking.
 
One thing I am noticing (and I touched on this with my initial thoughts) is that Infernals (and I am assuming the other splats) have a much reduced ability for "nation building". The lack of a manse or sorcerous projects system means they can't perform large scale magical changes to areas, and they lack many of the social charms which let them change the course of nations or even build their own.

A lot of the broader exalt powersets have been narrowed to keep things more firmly in the WoD wheelhouse. I've also noticed that a lot of exalt abilities are non-optionally monstrous -- Lunars aren't getting new forms without devouring something or someone, Infernals aren't able to twist their "badguy" charms to good ends, etc. (This was true of the earlier EXvWoD as well.)
 
A lot of the broader exalt powersets have been narrowed to keep things more firmly in the WoD wheelhouse. I've also noticed that a lot of exalt abilities are non-optionally monstrous -- Lunars aren't getting new forms without devouring something or someone, Infernals aren't able to twist their "badguy" charms to good ends, etc. (This was true of the earlier EXvWoD as well.)
Yeah, it's something that I simultaneously agree with and lament. I like the Infernals leaning more into villainy because it fits s the darker tone, but I also miss some of the old charmsets
 
Yeah, it seems lots of Infernal charms really calibrated more toward destroying orders and relatively little on 'building on the ashes' part.

Still fun though.
 
I am always a sucker for irish/welsh-coded homebrew regions.

I mean, they're already part of canon? I remember seeing something like that in one of the official creature/monster/enemy supplements.
Yeah there's a first circle demon that's basically a large scorpion man. Like The Rock in The Mummy IIRC.
 
Yeah, it seems lots of Infernal charms really calibrated more toward destroying orders and relatively little on 'building on the ashes' part.

Still fun though.

Yeah, that and the poo-poohing of even being an untrustworthy ally of all but destroy-the-world type has led me to decide that Vs WoD Infernal fluff joins the 2E first chapter fluff on the burn pile.

I instead have it that they are Hell's long-dormant immune system waking up and informing the Yama Kings "You guys? Yes, you? You suck at this whole 'tormentor of the wicked' thing, and then some. Here, let me show you what a real regal devil looks like." And then having it that Exaltations seek out the souls of people who are vengeful for very good reasons, and tells them "hey, you suffered because the cosmos is broken, and we need you to help purge it with hellfire."

Yes, this is the Essence motive. I don't care, because it actually gives a reason for Infernal circles to not backstab each other. "So, Most Diabolical Peer, you want exclusive rights to fraudsters when we conquer Hell? Excellent, I was aiming for traitors, and Michelle was after evil sorcerers! This makes thing way easier!"

They're still terrifying and selfish, of course. But they're terrifying in a worse way, because they are a sign of the cosmos working right again, and it's just as nasty. The Wyrm of Balance has returned, and the mouth is just as wide - it just kills you quickly.
 
So anyone here familiar with M20 and W20? Exalted can apparently make Wonders (mage) and fetishes (werewolf).


What kind of stuff can those do?

Edit:
I could use some help translating a character concept.

I've been "playing" (read: desperately wanting to play) a 2e game for awhile where I play as an Infernal who exalted when she lost faith in the gods. Seeing that the world was I just, she decided to use her vast cosmic power to fix the issue. Even if that meant rewriting the laws of physics themselves.

Build wise, she invested in a lot of manse charms since they allowed for large scale magical workings, but most of that stuff seems to have been removed.

Any advice on how to build her Ex vs WoD?
 
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Yeah, it seems lots of Infernal charms really calibrated more toward destroying orders and relatively little on 'building on the ashes' part.

Still fun though.

One thing Infernals do get is several solid charms which can turn a person into a bakemono -- a sort of monster that shapeshifters know as fomori.
(Rules for fomori can be found on pages 428-439 of W20.)

Less jokingly, The King and the Kingdom is absolutely delightful, and probably reason #1 to play Infernals.
 
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What kind of stuff can those do?

So, Fetishes.

They're fairly simple, make an object appropriate to what you wanna do, stick a spirit appropriate to that task into said object, and have fun. They're rated 1-5 in terms of power and have their own Gnosis score, generally rated 5-8. To activate a Fetish, either make a roll with a difficulty of the Fetish's Gnosis or spend a point of Gnosis/Essence. A Fetish will usually have only one power, but high level ones may have secondary powers. The core book example being the Jarlhammers, those being stuff like also doing fire damage or shatter stone on strikes or adding extra dice to resist mind magic.

Some examples from the core book;

Level 1:
Harmony Flute: While playing, aggressive creatures stop attacking but may still fight back to defend themselves. Creatures with Rage can resist.
Magpie's Swag: A bag, sack, satchel, or similar that can hold three times the amount of stuff it should carry. Doesn't work with "Complex Weaver Objects" like guns or laptops, but a Level 2 version can.

Level 2:
Cup of the Alicorn: A cup that neutralizes any poison or harmful substance poured in it. A Gnosis roll against the Intelligence + Science of the poisoner lets you recognize the kind of poison used.
Spirit Tracer: Traces spirits.

Level 3:
Baneskin: An amulet that lets one pass as a Bane to Bane Spirits. The effect breaks if you attack them.
Vampire Killer Sun Whip: A whip that glows with sunlight or fire and deals Strength +4 Agg to vampires, Strength +1 lethal to everything else.

Level 4:
Feathered Cloak: You can fly with some terms and conditions. Roll Stamina + Athletics(difficulty 5) for every ten minutes of flight due to the strain of using the cloak.
Klaive: Murder Stick. Difficulty of 6 to attack with and does Strength +2 Agg to everything. Is silver and unsoakable to Werewolves and most Fera.

Level 5:
Grand Klaive: Big Murder Stick. Difficulty of 7 to attack with and does Strength +5 Agg to everything. Is silver and unsoakable to Werewolves and most Fera. May have secondary power.
Runestones: Note, need not actually be stones. Shows a vision of what is to come, with how truthful that is being up to how many successes you roll and how complex what you're trying to look at is. Plot Dispenser for GMs.



Wonders, I'm not too familiar with. AFAIK, they are items that have some kind of permanent Sphere based effect in them. Given how Mage has always been a shinning beacon of simple, easily understood, and well balanced game systems, I am certain that they are not at all a broken and exploitable mess.
 
We have Handdog, the Nimble-Handed Dog, Flyanimal, the Fly Ogre, and Whisperknife, the Whispering Knife. Clear as day so far.

But what on Earth was the Szerlemka meant to be? Szerelmecske (hit the word for 'love' with a diminutive)?

That sounds like the kind of logic I'd use. I genuinely can't remember because I wrote the original demons years ago and the art of naming demons is usually looking at pertinent words and their translations on Wiktionary and then experimenting with ways of phrasing things so they look pleasing as demon names.
 
I hate you so much

In any case, yes, if anybody wants to give their demons cool-sounding Hungarian names that actually keep sounding cool even if the audience can speak Hungarian, my PMs are always open.
 
One thing Infernals do get is several solid charms which can turn a person into a bakemono -- a sort of monster that shapeshifters know as fomori.
(Rules for fomori can be found on pages 428-439 of W20.)

Less jokingly, The King and the Kingdom is absolutely delightful, and probably reason #1 to play Infernals.
Itsbmy favorite charm by far, especially when I realized you could turn the the earth into it with Barren Waste Infliction. I do wish it had more points or options or something though. As it stands you can't layer blessings over an area like you used to be able to with manses. The first charms I make once I get a handle on this system will probably be expansions to it

It also feels kind of weak? Like effectively it's a respite for 5 days, but that's all. Unless you can bring stuff back with you but I didn't see a mention of that
So, Fetishes.

They're fairly simple, make an object appropriate to what you wanna do, stick a spirit appropriate to that task into said object, and have fun. They're rated 1-5 in terms of power and have their own Gnosis score, generally rated 5-8. To activate a Fetish, either make a roll with a difficulty of the Fetish's Gnosis or spend a point of Gnosis/Essence. A Fetish will usually have only one power, but high level ones may have secondary powers. The core book example being the Jarlhammers, those being stuff like also doing fire damage or shatter stone on strikes or adding extra dice to resist mind magic.

Some examples from the core book;

Level 1:
Harmony Flute: While playing, aggressive creatures stop attacking but may still fight back to defend themselves. Creatures with Rage can resist.
Magpie's Swag: A bag, sack, satchel, or similar that can hold three times the amount of stuff it should carry. Doesn't work with "Complex Weaver Objects" like guns or laptops, but a Level 2 version can.

Level 2:
Cup of the Alicorn: A cup that neutralizes any poison or harmful substance poured in it. A Gnosis roll against the Intelligence + Science of the poisoner lets you recognize the kind of poison used.
Spirit Tracer: Traces spirits.

Level 3:
Baneskin: An amulet that lets one pass as a Bane to Bane Spirits. The effect breaks if you attack them.
Vampire Killer Sun Whip: A whip that glows with sunlight or fire and deals Strength +4 Agg to vampires, Strength +1 lethal to everything else.

Level 4:
Feathered Cloak: You can fly with some terms and conditions. Roll Stamina + Athletics(difficulty 5) for every ten minutes of flight due to the strain of using the cloak.
Klaive: Murder Stick. Difficulty of 6 to attack with and does Strength +2 Agg to everything. Is silver and unsoakable to Werewolves and most Fera.

Level 5:
Grand Klaive: Big Murder Stick. Difficulty of 7 to attack with and does Strength +5 Agg to everything. Is silver and unsoakable to Werewolves and most Fera. May have secondary power.
Runestones: Note, need not actually be stones. Shows a vision of what is to come, with how truthful that is being up to how many successes you roll and how complex what you're trying to look at is. Plot Dispenser for GMs.



Wonders, I'm not too familiar with. AFAIK, they are items that have some kind of permanent Sphere based effect in them. Given how Mage has always been a shinning beacon of simple, easily understood, and well balanced game systems, I am certain that they are not at all a broken and exploitable mess.
Thank you! This was super useful!
 
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Given how Mage has always been a shinning beacon of simple, easily understood, and well balanced game systems, I am certain that they are not at all a broken and exploitable mess.
*laughs in MJOLLNIR with firearms excellency*

Also, I'd (maybe unnecessarily) add that if you go digging in older WtA books you can find some six dot fetishes that I wouldn't recommend using in any kind of Exalted vs WoD context.
 
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