That does not actually change anything! When I say double Exalt, I am including ideas like that, and I don't think that you need to have that kind of reaction to what I think was a pretty reasonable stance from me.
Okay, I'm sorry, it's just that 'double exalt' has a particular meaning to me due to fandom history, referring to the occasionally-recurring notion of a character who holds multiple kinds of Exaltation at once, like the template stacking of Samuel Haight over in WoD. That assumption has turned up in this discussion before already, so I read the words and was primed to interpret them in one specific way as re-treading old ground. Mea culpa.
The original framing bothers me for its own reasons. Dragon-Blooded are either my favourite or my second-favourite splat depending on the day, and I have negative enthusiasm for any character concept that's like, treating a Dragon-Blooded Exaltation as something to be upgraded away from, or stressed as somehow "so different from the other kinds of Exalt" that something like this should be possible for them in particular.
This... Also feels like an assumption that nobody has actually suggested, though. Like, Terrestrials are a pretty different kind of Exaltation to the others, they do have some key differences to Celestials as suggested by how there's, y'know, a Celestial/Terrestrial distinction in the first place, and as far back as the inciting question this has pretty much been an Abyssal concept, so I don't see that anybody has been suggesting it as a way of 'upgrading'.

Again, the notion of a Terrestrial Exalt who basically parallels the origin of the Deathlords by bleeding out their Dragon's Blood into the soil before receiving the Last Breath does suggest some character hooks, to me. You can do a lot with someone who was so wrapped up in being a Prince of the Earth that they couldn't bear to die and become nothing, and were willing to accept what has historically been a pretty malevolent bargain in Abyssal Exaltation (and it's not yet altogether clear how 3e will handle Abyssals, but going by Essence the 'harbinger of the world's end' framing is likely to hang around in at least some form) in order to cling on to the power and grandeur and status that they see as their rightful due.

Notably, a) it's pretty easy to see why someone might jump first to the transition of Dragonblooded > Abyssal for this, since Exalted is a game about, y'know, the Exalted, so they tend to be pretty prominent, and b) it provides a qualitatively distinct dynamic that's hard to get otherwise. Like, doing this with a non-Dragonblooded Dynast or someone out of Lookshy would feel different, because mortals from there tend to grow up dealing with the pressure of the expectation of Exaltation, which casts Exalting as an Abyssal in the end in a different light. You get a similar deal with a Threshold noble, I feel, both backgrounds lend themselves to more of an "ominous bargain for a mockery of the power you killed yourself on the wheel of striving for" kind of deal, where going from an actual no-shit Prince of the Earth to an Abyssal is more of a, "clinging on to the glory of your birthright so tightly that you hardly even notice how you've strangled the life from it."
 
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Part of the reason why I (hypothetically) allow it is I don't exactly consider Abyssal an upgrade. I'll assume it's in their background, so they'll have to start more-or-less from scratch with other chargen requirement, and unlike being a DB they can't just use their power in public whenever, and that's not counting Abyssal's limit break, and-

Basically, it's far less straightforward upgrade unlike, say, Solar, or Infernal. And I don't think there's a way to do that from DB, anyway (though you could also be envious unexalted DB sibling, of course!)
 
Okay, I'm sorry, it's just that 'double exalt' has a particular meaning to me due to fandom history, referring to the occasionally-recurring notion of a character who holds multiple kinds of Exaltation at once, like the template stacking of Samuel Haight over in WoD. That assumption has turned up in this discussion before already, so I read the words and was primed to interpret them in one specific way as re-treading old ground. Mea culpa.
I've also seen it used to describe this exact scenario. Like, complaints about how that particular story from the 3e collection has a Dragon-Blood "double Exalt as a Solar". I don't have that extensive a history with the fandom, it's just like... a usage I'd already seen.
 
This is small potatoes, but I'm totally cool with like, a Solar Exalted becoming corrupted by dark powers and transforming into an Abyssal or Infernal. I've seen some convincing arguments for like, removing some of the barriers between the Solars and the Exalt types that are canonically 'derived' from them and making them all one Exalt type that's sort of modular, and can move on an arc from Solar to Infernal or Solar to Abyssal.

One of my players has a character like this; a Twilight Caste Solar who constructed an N/A artifact crown that lets her channel the energy of the Makers of the World to do demiurgic feats of creation, and has also begun the process of slowly warping her mind into that of a glorious and shining god-queen, beautiful and terrible as the dawn, with a burning gaze and purifying white flames of glorification. She's on a bit of a Solar -> Infernal trajectory.

Another character, one of mine, is a Dawn Caste Solar who is slowly being changed due to his bond to an ancient warstrider that may or may not be a prison for an ancient demonic soul of the Endless Desert. His Anima Banner, once a sandstorm of radiant heat and multicolored grains, occasionally turns cerulean and melts into a flurry of glass blades. Also physical space inside his anima gets a bit fucky wucky, letting him do neat tricks that fuck with distance.

Mechanically, these two characters are still both Solars, but have access to small palettes of Yozi Charms (or Theion Charms, in the Twilight's case) to augment their capabilities and give them some interesting new powers.

I don't think something like this is necessarily a huge leap from canon, what with Akuma, Eclipse Charms, drawing Evocations from artifacts, etc.
 
The original framing bothers me for its own reasons. Dragon-Blooded are either my favourite or my second-favourite splat depending on the day, and I have negative enthusiasm for any character concept that's like, treating a Dragon-Blooded Exaltation as something to be upgraded away from, or stressed as somehow "so different from the other kinds of Exalt" that something like this should be possible for them in particular.
I am literally so unbelievably biased in favour of Dragon-Blooded that for a while it was received wisdom in this thread that anything I said should probably be doubted because of a 50/50 chance some of it was unconsciously made up to favour Dragon-Blooded. I don't think you have to say that Dragon-Blooded are lesser in any way to let one Exalt as a Prince of Death upon their deathbed, because the Abyssal Exaltation - unlike any other Exaltation in the game - was always meant to be an either/or, where the scenario is that if you don't take it, you die. I mean honestly, I'd be okay with treating the Abyssal Exaltation as just straight-up a revival. It's a unique miracle of death; Exalted's aversion to resurrection is solely on the principle of preventing take-backs. I don't think it's exactly treating Abyssal Exaltation as an "upgrade" to let a desperate woman on death's door bleed out her sacred draconic blood and embrace the end of all things for her own fear of death as @Imrix describes, and I'm not even all that attached to this story in the first place!

(I would also make the First and Forsaken Lion a younger, originally Dragon-Blooded Deathlord from the Shogunate, but obviously that's separate from all this and a completely distinct process and no one will ever agree with me)
 
Wow, sad.

Nobody, whether here or on Discord or on the official forum, seems optimistic at all. Hard to imagine a worse omen for a licensed project.
I could easily enjoy something on a par with 90s Hercules and Xena (or Legend of the Seeker for a more recent example) and appreciate where they had to cut corners for the sake of a TV budget and simplify the lore.
The problem is I think it would quickly become exhausting to express any kind of enjoyment for the series in these online spaces.
 
I am literally so unbelievably biased in favour of Dragon-Blooded that for a while it was received wisdom in this thread that anything I said should probably be doubted because of a 50/50 chance some of it was unconsciously made up to favour Dragon-Blooded.
tbh just abolish all of the other exalted, Exalted is now only about DragonBlooded.
 
Isn't this just reject modernity, return to tradition (the very very old initial design of Exalted where the only Exaltation type was Dragonblooded because White Wolf likes its single-splat lines like that)?
It is definitely true that Exalted, like modernity, has crafted for us the paradox of choice: with each new splat and attempt to cater to yet another tiny minority of Exalted players who want their Exalteds to be sentient clouds of celestial wasps or something they make the entire setting more and more disjointed and incomprehensible while increasing the barrier to entry of new players.

This is why supermarkets suck btw.
 
I could easily enjoy something on a par with 90s Hercules and Xena (or Legend of the Seeker for a more recent example) and appreciate where they had to cut corners for the sake of a TV budget and simplify the lore.
The problem is I think it would quickly become exhausting to express any kind of enjoyment for the series in these online spaces.
We don't know anything much about it so far, so hope hasn't been dragged from my hands yet.

And people do sometimes produce good shows out of (comparatively) nowhere.

Star Trek was a longshot, Babylon 5 was almost out of nowhere. Sometimes - not often - we get lucky. And Exalted is all about those 1 in a million occasions.
 
Not a particular rebuttal of anyone's point about someone having two Exaltations, but there is an Alchemical city, the patropolis of Lux, who was a Solar in a previous life and makes a huge deal about it.
 
Not a particular rebuttal of anyone's point about someone having two Exaltations, but there is an Alchemical city, the patropolis of Lux, who was a Solar in a previous life and makes a huge deal about it.
Previous life, yeah. With reincarnation as a thing it's bound to happen sooner or later.
 
We don't know anything much about it so far, so hope hasn't been dragged from my hands yet.

And people do sometimes produce good shows out of (comparatively) nowhere.

Star Trek was a longshot, Babylon 5 was almost out of nowhere. Sometimes - not often - we get lucky. And Exalted is all about those 1 in a million occasions.
Yeah, if it's any good there'll be a solid fanbase who've never played a tabletop RPG who I can interact with and spare myself from the more inane adaptation complaints.
 
I had a thought.

What does the Immaculate Philosophy claim about First Age tech/weaponry? Where did it supposedly come from, if the age that begat it was a world ruled by demons?
 
I had a thought.

What does the Immaculate Philosophy claim about First Age tech/weaponry? Where did it supposedly come from, if the age that begat it was a world ruled by demons?
They literally know a bunch of it was made by Anathema, but it's also like... the Contagion and the Baloran Crusade also genuinely destroyed a lot of infrastructure and wiped out a lot of resources and expertise that the Shogunate still had. It's not a secret that Anathema can make fabulous wonders, but it's also true that Dragon-Blooded were more capable of maintaining what they had prior to the world almost ending two times at once.

You also get things like this sidebar about the Valley of the Ancients, from the Realm.



Scholars in the Immaculate Order might be aware of the actual nature of the Ancients, but they're not like... going to spread that around too publicly to randos, for the same reason they don't just explain to everyone that "Anathema are literally the Chosen of Luna and the Unconquered Sun" -- it's confusing and alarming, and most people don't have the spiritual and occult education for that knowledge not to make them jump to dangerous conclusions.
 
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