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General Exalted Thread

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That's why I only wrote five Charms. I stuck to areas where that wasn't (much of) a problem.

A proper system would, of course, make it easy to write many more Charms.
 
Sanctaphrax said:
That's why I only wrote five Charms. I stuck to areas where that wasn't (much of) a problem.

A proper system would, of course, make it easy to write many more Charms.
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Meanwhile I'm trying to solidify the actual backbone of such a system. Link's in my signature. Reconciling all the existing fragmentary mechanics for action on a scale of hours or longer with each other, and extrapolating expansions consistent with outside knowledge of economics and sociology, is kind of a big task, but there's been measurable progress. For example, I recently managed to derive why the Bronze Faction would include a ban on representational art when they were building the Immaculate Order's doctrines, based on almost nothing but the corebook crafting rules.
Characters cannot create items with a Resources value in excess of (their Craft + appropriate specialty) without a Charm or stunt. Furthermore, they must have appropriate raw materials and tools, which have their own Resources cost—typically one dot less than the value of the intended project. In the case of large projects, this cost also includes hiring the many laborers necessary to construct the item. The Storyteller should grant exceptions based on common sense. A set of paintbrushes is still Resources 1, even if an artist intends to paint a masterpiece.
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If the default tool requirement was equal to the value of the final product, that would create a bootstrap problem... but not an insurmountable one.
If a character obtains a threshold of 5 on a project, the superb craftsmanship improves the final Resources value by one dot (to a maximum of 5), automatically making the item exceptional. If possible, this quality improves the utility of the item accordingly. For example, a normal straight sword is Resources 2 and requires two successes. With seven successes, the extraordinary quality makes it a Resources 3 exceptional weapon. Because three successes would also be enough to make the weapon exceptional if the character had planned to do so all along, taking three weeks and spending Resources 2 on materials, the chief advantage of producing an unexpected masterpiece is the ability to do so cheaper, more quickly and possibly with less training.
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My houserule was, in a sense, to simply remove the given "common sense" exception: if you intend to create a masterpiece, absent magic or a stunt you absolutely need materials (such as a block of structural-grade stone to carve into a statue, or vivid pigments for painting - wars have been fought over access to such things) one dot less valuable and tools of equal value... but in the special case of representational art, intrinsic beauty of the subject you're trying to represent can contribute toward the tool requirement. Appearance for people, possibly some geomancy-based stat for scenic landscapes. Keychain of Creation - Updates Monday and Friday

So, let's say you're trying to rebuild a basic medieval economy, after the Great Contagion wiped out all the major population centers and the Balorian Crusade rolled through wrecking all the worked metal they could find, especially iron. The anathema Beelzebob Ross is trying to stop you, or better yet steal the fruits of your labor with minimal effort in order to rule Bartertown himself. Dragon-Blooded can apply excellencies and other basic Craft charms to produce Resources 2 items easily enough. Someone using those tools manages to roll seven successes and forge an exceptional anvil worth Resources 3. Huzzah, another step up the tech tree!

Meanwhile, before they can even begin using that to upgrade other workshops, the Lord of the Happy Little Trees summons a wasp-demon, paints a portrait - no significant bootstrap problem with access to such a sublimely beauteous reference figure - and says, more or less, "Hey, want to buy this? Anyone with any dots in Bureaucracy can tell it's at least a Resources 4 painting, fair market value easily five or ten times as much as that exceptional anvil. But, I'm such a nice guy, I'll trade it to you right now, and then you can just give me the next nine anvils of similar quality whenever they're ready." Closing a deal as favorable as that doesn't exactly require mind control.

Whoops, next thing you know your top blacksmith has promised the Silmarils to a loan shark, Drive™: The SciFi Comic, by Dave Kellett industrial bootstrapping is stalled, #609; In which Natalie finds the Fallacy and all you've got to show for it is a glittering pile of yozi propaganda that needs to be safely disposed of. Thus, categorically banning representational art neatly patches what could otherwise be a very broad strategic exploit. Sidereals take that kind of statistical inevitability very seriously. Abstract art is fine, since the tools involved tend to have other worthwhile applications.
 
strange_person said:
For example, I recently managed to derive why the Bronze Faction would include a ban on representational art when they were building the Immaculate Order's doctrines, based on almost nothing but the corebook crafting rules.

...
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On some level I have to respect the work involved here, but the corebook crafting rules you're working with are flat-out crazy. And this inevitably makes a world built on them pretty crazy as well.

Do you actually want to play in a world designed around the second-order implications of extremely badly-written rules?
 
Sanctaphrax said:
On some level I have to respect the work involved here, but the corebook crafting rules you're working with are flat-out crazy. And this inevitably makes a world built on them pretty crazy as well.

Do you actually want to play in a world designed around the second-order implications of extremely badly-written rules?
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Well no, but actually yes. Playing this world is dumb, but damn if it isn't interesting to read about.
 
I feel like Sanctaphrax is correct above. And further, I'm not sure that I would assume that literally every peculiarity of the Immaculate Philosophy is deliberate manipulation by Sidereals. It's a living religion and a religion being aniconic is hardly unique.

Furthermore, assuming that it would be set up specifically to counter Solar crafters in a time period where Solars are like... A handful of constantly-dying randos whose small numbers and lack of any support usually make them pretty easy to take care of is a little backwards. Out of less than twenty baby Solars, how many would even be legendary crafters at any given time? Quite possibly none. Solars are not the kind of Anathema that still numbered in the hundreds at that point, or the kind that had already been actively at war with the Shogunate for its whole existence.
 
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Sanctaphrax said:
On some level I have to respect the work involved here, but the corebook crafting rules you're working with are flat-out crazy. And this inevitably makes a world built on them pretty crazy as well.

Do you actually want to play in a world designed around the second-order implications of extremely badly-written rules?
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I want to modify those base rules until, ideally, every layer of the new implications makes both game and setting better rather than worse. Gotta shoot a pattern before adjusting the scope.
Gazetteer said:
I feel like Sanctaphrax is correct above. And further, I'm not sure that I would assume that literally every peculiarity of the Immaculate Philosophy is deliberate manipulation by Sidereals. It's a living religion and a religion being aniconic is hardly unique.

Furthermore, assuming that it would be set up specifically to counter Solar crafters in a time period where Solars are like... A handful of constantly-dying randos whose small numbers and lack of any support usually make them pretty easy to take care of is a little backwards. Out of less than twenty baby Solars, how many would even be legendary crafters at any given time? Quite possibly none. Solars are not the kind of Anathema that still numbered in the hundreds at that point, or the kind that had already been actively at war with the Shogunate for its whole existence.
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Nothing about the trick in question is Solar-specific - it could work with a moderately lucky mortal thaumaturge exactly as written. The general case of representational art based on pre-existing beauty compromising incentives to invest in lasting economic development could even be accidental, a little bit like how some poorly-understood new business model can transform into a Ponzi-scheme bubble if it pays off the first few investors too generously.
 
Sanctaphrax said:
On some level I have to respect the work involved here, but the corebook crafting rules you're working with are flat-out crazy. And this inevitably makes a world built on them pretty crazy as well.

Do you actually want to play in a world designed around the second-order implications of extremely badly-written rules?
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People actually play(ed) Tippyverse.

So somewhere out there are people who would say yes. Best I can suggest is to check gaming den if you want to find some.
 
Seeing as people are poking around for games. Looks like we are going to be moving into arc four of I guess my nearly seven year campaign now. I'll post my advert from elsewhere here:

Happy holidays everyone.
I've been running my instance of Creation for nearly seven years now. All the stories and past events are packed in and it's lent some more complex sociopolitical interactions and world depth.
That said, we are looking to take the next step of the story in the Prasad/Dreaming Sea region. I'm in college for my masters atm while working full time, so my wife is pinch hitting with me. We are switching off months for running weekly sessions. I'm running a First Age side project for the group over the holiday, but we'll be starting back to the main story right after that.
The game is looking to kick back off in the month of January on the 15th and 29th and then marching on to that beat.
Of the three players from the last arc, one will be continuing their character, while the other two are considering new characters for the new arc. This will be arc 4, the existing character was around for arc 2 & 3 so has a lot of political/network power to throw around. I intend to keep running for decades, so don't feel too bad that someone has invested that much more into the story and reaped the dividends, you'll get there too.
Since it's such a long running game, it would take a long time to cover everything. I'd rather focus on player expectations and cover the setting more in our discord. A player should be interested in other players and read their journals/stories. A player should seek to interact with other players stories, though this need not always be in a supportive role. A player should be deep, complex, and walk into problems/punji pits when it suits the character. A player should understand this social event is not about winning, it's about telling a complex story with living characters. A player should be willing and interested in balancing charms and abilities around the group expectation for how the game is and has been played. A player should eventually develop their own themes that we (the player and myself) can then use to design charms that better tell their story and journey of growth.
In so far as the story. It revolves around a Lunar faction solidifying it's mandate over the South East. It will focus on Prasad, Volivat, Champoor, and other power players on the Dreaming Sea. It is likely that the Underworld and Malfeas trips will occur when it makes sense or one stumbles on an established location. Though, there is no guarantee depending on player composition. A player should consider the core story is about the Lunar faction and should have some interest in working with them or being part of them/an ally. Working against them will from the get go will likely result in a short character run. The leader of the faction is MaHa-Suchi and the faction has been angling towards being more militant and not taking shit.
For new players, the following character splats are acceptable:Lunars, Dragonblood (Forest Witch, Prasadi, Lost Egg), Godbloods, Dragonkings, People of the Earth, Deathknight (Spire aligned)
At this time, we can not allow new players to play: Infernals, Solars, Sidereal, God, FaeDue to the complexity of playing these characters within the current story or the degree to which the character would widen the focus of the spotlight, making the story scattered and muddy.

Having read all that, the time slot is Friday 7:30 PM-12:00PM EST on a private Discord server.

Obsidian Portal - Campaign websites for Dungeons and Dragons and other tabletop RPGs

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thedragonsshattered.obsidianportal.com thedragonsshattered.obsidianportal.com

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Lunar Matrix

Mnalilf Nganto is aligned with the Lintha. Most new lunars come from those that have sacrificed their lives in the fight for the Caul over the last fifty years. More in the last five since the Empress’ disappearance caused confusion in the Realms ranks. Time Scale: Usurpation - 1522 years ago Rea...
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Can reach me best on discord here:
Vael, The Gemling Prince#4126
 
Honestly not sure how much all of you are interested in Exalted Crossover Quest, but I got some Crossover Quest for all of you to check it.

It involves with Touhou settings, with the main playable character being a premade OC... And Reimu Hakurei when the quest reach that part. Just so you know, I am using a 2nd Edition with a splat called Eternal Exalted, so I hope you all get comfortable with it... All while crazy nonsense shenanigans happen all around Gensokyo.

So here's the link and the name of the title: "Touhou: The Twin Eternal"
 
Young Pyromancer said:
@Touch of Sepia how familiar do potential players have to be with second edition?
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I was really torn on whether to say anything about this because the incidents in question are starting to be kind of a long time ago, but I still feel like I'd be doing a disservice not trying to let people know what to expect. I'm not really trying to make this into some kind of grudge match and the fact that my experience was ultimately bad enough to quit is not a guarantee that yours would be as well. This was all, again, kind of a while ago now and hey, maybe he's changed. His games do have redeeming qualities or I wouldn't have tried to stick it out as long as I did.

It's just, if you decide to take a chance, understand what you want from the game, look out for yourself, and know what you're in for ahead of time.
 
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SerGregness said:
I was really torn on whether to say anything about this because the incidents in question are starting to be kind of a long time ago, but I still feel like I'd be doing a disservice not trying to let people know what to expect. I'm not really trying to make this into some kind of grudge match and the fact that my experience was ultimately bad enough to quit is not a guarantee that yours would be as well. This was all, again, kind of a while ago now and hey, maybe he's changed. His games do have redeeming qualities or I wouldn't have tried to stick it out as long as I did.

It's just, if you decide to take a chance, understand what you want from the game, look out for yourself, and know what you're in for ahead of time.
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Totally valid. Both the game and my style are not for everyone. Three years is a long time and a person can change a lot, but I'd not say all that much in my case. I'd just say the discussions happen more between sessions because I have more foresight/experience. Now, I don't know about telling "my story" cause it's always been a sandbox game, but I recognize what you're saying on all other counts.

Thanks for the insights SerGregness, they are valuable.
 
Hm, from what people have said, it sounds like a player unfamiliar with the rules would be at a severe disadvantage, due to how the game relies on "player skill", which to me seems to indicate munchkinning. Of course, all styles of play are valid, but that particular one is hard for someone to easily get into.

@Touch of Sepia when do you need your answer by?
EDIT: Continued in PMs.
 
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Young Pyromancer said:
Hm, from what people have said, it sounds like a player unfamiliar with the rules would be at a severe disadvantage, due to how the game relies on "player skill", which to me seems to indicate munchkinning. Of course, all styles of play are valid, but that particular one is hard for someone to easily get into.
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I mean... the issue with Exalted isn't a matter of skill, it's just got a ton of moving parts mechanically speaking. Like... comparing it to D&D, your barbarian gets the ability to rage, which gives you a bonus to hit and damage. You might have racial bonuses or a Feat or weird skill proficiencies or whatever but there's not a lot to know at first level. Even for wizards, you get six spells, not all of which you can cast. Meanwhile your standard character in Exalted gets like 15 Charms (special moves) right out of the gate. Plus Merits, which can be their own set of abilities and advantages depending on how you take it... (roughly equivalent to Backgrounds in D&D)

You don't need to be a master of TTRPGs to play Exalted (I definitely ain't) but it's complicated.
 
Honestly, experience in TTRPGs can maybe even be a detriment to Exalted depending on the mindset. The medium I feel best encapsulates the sort of play experience Exalted goes for, particularly in combat, is CCGs - lots of moving parts, much of the metagame is about resource management, giving ample opportunities for reactions and reactions to the reactions...
 
HalfTangible said:
I mean... the issue with Exalted isn't a matter of skill, it's just got a ton of moving parts mechanically speaking. Like... comparing it to D&D, your barbarian gets the ability to rage, which gives you a bonus to hit and damage. You might have racial bonuses or a Feat or weird skill proficiencies or whatever but there's not a lot to know at first level. Even for wizards, you get six spells, not all of which you can cast. Meanwhile your standard character in Exalted gets like 15 Charms (special moves) right out of the gate. Plus Merits, which can be their own set of abilities and advantages depending on how you take it... (roughly equivalent to Backgrounds in D&D)

You don't need to be a master of TTRPGs to play Exalted (I definitely ain't) but it's complicated.
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Right, but charms are specialized enough that only one or two or often zero are usable in a situation outside excellencies. Unlike AD&D where everything is combat and you might have five feats triggering on different conditions and bard songs and potions and metamagic buff spells going on, usually in Exalted you have simple dice pools that don't change much outside buying some dice. AD&D is like a soup with everything thrown in, while Exalted it's more the right tool for the job like a tool box or a cheese board.

Anyways, my game is like 90-95% narrative/story so it's not a worry imo. New people seem to do fine in my game from experience and I think Exalted (via the community) does try to sell itself as more complicated than it is. Plus, I'm a teacher by trade, so I can help new people with the ropes.
 
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