Total Annihilation used in a pre-industrial urban area (lots of wooden construction) seems liable to cause a sizeable secondary conflagration, in turn conceivably leading to a firestorm in the technical sense of the word.
 
First age construction, in some cases. Simple, but durable, dwellings in huge, flame-retardant groups.

Also, that's an argument for a grenade as a city-killer. Booooooo! :D
 
What I was curious about originally was the reason people were referring to it as a city-killer... which makes less sense when there's a city-killer in the core book. Now, though, I'm wondering where EarthScorpion's version is.

Prooooooooobably dead and lost on the old WW forums. Like so many things, lost like tears in rain.

I've actually changed my mind, though - basically, the core issue that means that canon TA is like it is, is that it's still a 15 tick spell. I kiiiiiiiinda find myself leaning against the idea that any Adamant Circle spell should be castable in combat time, because they're either OP, or just kind of disappointing.
 
Ok, this is really a Second Edition Forums question, but...

Total Annihilation, the solar circle spell, reached 5 miles into the sky, with a 50 yard radius. It can expand 10 yards per second, for (Ex5) seconds.

At E10, this is 550 yards... a third of a mile, give or take. It's a pillar of fire. Ok. But it's less than a square mile of area... at E10.

Why do people keep referring to it as a "city-killer?" I understand the nuke references- it's Sunfire, from the sun who like green and Wasting Sickness. It's also a massive Pillar or Heavenly Fire.

But citykiller? This thing could maybe destroy a few city blocks. Sure, we have huge cities. SO DOES CREATION. Worse, without skyscrapers, Creation's cities are more spread-out.

So, what gives? Is it just the auto-association of "nukes?"


I think you're overestimating the physical area of a pre-modern city. For one thing, they are not "more spread out" because they don't have convenient long-distance transport. People walking and riding horses don't commute long distances.

Rome, at the height of the empire, is estimated to be around 7 square miles of terrain for the city proper.

A circle with a radius of 550 yards is just a bit under 1/3 of the total surface area of a square mile. Drop the weakest possible Total Annihilation casting in downtown Rome, and you've gutted a major fraction of the city well before any question of secondary effects like fires comes in to play. And you've done it quickly, in literal seconds.

Sure, if you actually want to completely genocide a major metropolitan area Rain of Doom is more efficient. But nobody is going to look at the aftermath of a Total Annihilation and think the city in question is only lightly damaged.
 
Total Annihilation and Rain of Doom are for weaklings and fools. Total Annihilation is flashy, but is going to blow up, what, a single palace? Fuck that. Rain of Doom requires circling a city on foot, which is dangerous, time-consuming, and most importantly, :effort:.

Real Sorcerers don't bother with that fancy overcosted Solar Circle bullshit. Instead, they cast Summoning the Heart of Darkness. Sure, that spell causes no direct damage. However, it creates a one mile radius pillar of absolute darkness for 24 hours, in which all sound is distorted and only screams ring out clearly. Everyone affected must succeed on a Valor 3 check of "give in to panic." As the book says, "Entire armies have slaughtered themselves when caught by the Heart of Darkness." The difficulty of all actions increases by the caster's Essence.

That's your city-killer. Drop it, and watch the city go up in flame. Or, well, you can't watch it, since it's under total supernatural darkness. People will blindly kill each other or themselves, knock over open flames, walk into canals and drown, beasts will panic (and a pre-modern city has a ton of animals in it), and so on and so forth.

And it's only Lunar Circle! A Lunar could be doing this to your Satrapy's capital today!
 
Total Annihilation and Rain of Doom are for weaklings and fools. Total Annihilation is flashy, but is going to blow up, what, a single palace? Fuck that. Rain of Doom requires circling a city on foot, which is dangerous, time-consuming, and most importantly, :effort:.
Total Annihilation is for Manse-busting and similar, or for sanitizing plague sites when there is nobody left to save.
Rain of Doom is for when you are sieging some place and want to force the defenders to come out and face you, or when you know where someone/something is hiding and don't care about collateral damage.
 
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All these sorcery based solutions shows only the weakness to be found in sorcery. Why not pick up the city, and throw it elsewhere? :V
 
Hm? No it's not, @Matsci saved it in this thread back in 2014. Hey @boo600, here.


...wow.

Now THAT'S a nuke.

I'm now wondering about the Enhancements bit, and why ES removed the "secret name of Ligier" bit. It may conflict with "the Exalts come up with EVERYTHING" narrative some people push, but ES normally balances everything (AGSItV as an example- Louise hardly ROFL stomped everything she met). Plus, it was a cool bit of fluff- instead of "and fire off the nuke," you get "and whisper the secret name of the ANGRIER GREENER SUN." Why kill that?

Also, Imrix: You're amazing. Take a like! (Why can we only give one!?)
 
Well, if it helps, I am actually writing something Exalted at the moment. The Dragon's Spite is a Dragonblooed quest I started recently, where you play Ferem Odat Rena, a not-at-all evil and honestly-misunderstood sorceress who has had to flee far from her homeland of Cherak due to some perfectly innocent misunderstandings and jealous rivals persecuting her.

(Ignore all the consorting with fae and morally dubious sorcery she did)

Now she's in the Deep South, where no one knows who she is, and she's looking to regain her former power and enjoy the former lifestyle she had. That was the plan, at least. Right now she's in a life-and-death kung-fu fight with a mad goddess who kidnapped the hunky birdman she had a one night stand with.

She'd like to say she's surprised at this turn of events, but she's only moderately bemused.

The Quest is set around 30 years before the standard canon start date, too, so the game's feel is a little different from normal.

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

[Exalted] The Dragon's Spite Mature - Fantasy

The adventures of a not-at-all evil Dragonblooded sorceress who was unfairly and completely unjustly chased out of her homeland by people who objected to perfectly natural things she was doing. Now she's heading to the South, to rebuild and regain her former power and influence. Did I mention...
 
Alright, I give up. There was a Dark Souls-themed Sorcery Initiation in here somewhere, but I can't find it anymore. Does anyone know where it is?
 
Well, if it helps, I am actually writing something Exalted at the moment. The Dragon's Spite is a Dragonblooed quest I started recently, where you play Ferem Odat Rena, a not-at-all evil and honestly-misunderstood sorceress who has had to flee far from her homeland of Cherak due to some perfectly innocent misunderstandings and jealous rivals persecuting her.

(Ignore all the consorting with fae and morally dubious sorcery she did)

Now she's in the Deep South, where no one knows who she is, and she's looking to regain her former power and enjoy the former lifestyle she had. That was the plan, at least. Right now she's in a life-and-death kung-fu fight with a mad goddess who kidnapped the hunky birdman she had a one night stand with.

She'd like to say she's surprised at this turn of events, but she's only moderately bemused.

The Quest is set around 30 years before the standard canon start date, too, so the game's feel is a little different from normal.

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

[Exalted] The Dragon's Spite Mature - Fantasy

The adventures of a not-at-all evil Dragonblooded sorceress who was unfairly and completely unjustly chased out of her homeland by people who objected to perfectly natural things she was doing. Now she's heading to the South, to rebuild and regain her former power and influence. Did I mention...
I keep meaning to read this (I have it watched) but unfortunately work is busy atm
 
Another Charm I created as part of my general expansion of Earthscorpion's Oramus charms, not because those charms aren't good (they're better than anything I could write), but because there are certain things I want my character to do.

Wisdom of the Spheres
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 1; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Combo-ok
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: Maddening Astral Piping
Many learned scholars, fools who think themselves cleverer than they are, have studied the Dragon Beyond the World, hoping in this way to inoculate themselves from his terrible wisdom. This rarely works.
Learning this charm permanently alters the Infernal, making any time spent experiencing a performance created or performed by the Infernal count as training time with a Mentor for Lore, Occult, Performance, Resistance, Intelligence Perception, or a Speciality in line with the themes of Oramus.
This naturally includes all normal performance based social attacks, as well as any written or crafted social attacks which use performance.
This charm need not be used with a social attack however. The Infernal may perform for the joy of it, and still know themselves to be a great teacher.
If a character makes use of this charm to increase their character's stats, they gain an intimacy of "Fearful Fascination".

Intended usage for this charm
If the Infernal constantly plays music (which he should since he can do it reflexively), then people near him don't need to spend training time on the listed skills. Always good for training your circle or allies.
Crafted social attacks mean he can write plays and music which also work to train people. Make them popular in a city and you can have train people to be really good at Oramus stuff (limited by available xp)
It can be combo-d with his dream charms, meaning you can set it up so that everyone in an area hear's strange music when they sleep, and awake with more knowledge of lore and craft and such. Eventually, you end up with a city of thaumaturgic-engineers who worship some strange being in their dreams
 
A second charm! This one is meant to combo with sleep forge gullet (which lets you lucid dream to perform work while asleep , brings any items you store in elsehwere into your dreams, and lets you work as if you had a word's as workshop method) and a charm which lets you hear the prayers of the mad. It also lets works well with the previous training charm since the infernal should be making music, and is a valid vector for Bachanial Muse (which gives people permanent derangement in exchange for bonus craft dice) which is important since it means that you can pray to the Infernal to make yourself a better artist and then he can appear in your dreams and inspire you



Bachial Oracle
Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-ok
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisites: Echoes of Enlightenment, Sleep Forge Gullet
This charm may be activated whenever a character makes a successful prayer roll directed to the Infernal. The next time they both sleep, the target is drawn into the lucid dream of the Infernal, allowing them to iterate as if they were in the same physical space.
This charm may affect up to (The Infernal's Permanent Essence) magnitude of targets at once.
Any character may choose to leave this dream at any time as a reflexive action, waking from the Infernal nightmare like any other. Doing so instantly wakes the character and prevents them from regaining wp from sleep for the rest of the night.

At Essence 4, this charm automatically upgrades, allowing the Infernal to respond to prayers instantly. Upon hearing a prayer the Infernal may fall into a deep slumber and appear before the target(s) as a waking dream or vivid hallucinations seen only by the mad.
The Infernal appears exactly as he was at the time the prayer was made, and carries all his equipment on him.
Both the Infernal and the Target benefit from all the effects of Sleep Forge Gullet as per normal, though these items remain invisible and intangible to the sane.
This explicitly allows for the Infernal to heal mad characters as if he were present on the scene, or allow them to cross a chasm via a bridge conjured from his dream horde or other such illogical feats. The target may reflexively banish the Infernal as per the base charm, though doing so costs 1 wp as they reject this artificial madness. Doing so does not banish him for the whole group, each character must choose to banish him individually.
Mad characters who did not engage in the prayer roll may banish the Infernal from their minds at no extra cost.
 
@rogthnor for Wisdom of the Spheres you need to tighten up the wording to make it clear that other characters can benefit from the reduced training times. Also, I think this should follow Sanity-Shattering instruction, and maybe only affect people targeted by that charm. As it stands it's both much better than it and two essence lower than it.

Bachial Oracle feels like it should be Cecelyne/Oramus heresy since she's more focused on working with large groups of people. Most of Oramus charms that involve large groups of people require them to be mad or drives them mad as part of the cost. I think it might work as a charm that turns Mad groups of people into perfect workcrews that carry out dream carried instructions to build/maintain things. I'm thinking of Glory in Buffy the Vampire Slayer getting all the crazy people in town to build her a tower.
 
@rogthnor for Wisdom of the Spheres you need to tighten up the wording to make it clear that other characters can benefit from the reduced training times. Also, I think this should follow Sanity-Shattering instruction, and maybe only affect people targeted by that charm. As it stands it's both much better than it and two essence lower than it.

Bachial Oracle feels like it should be Cecelyne/Oramus heresy since she's more focused on working with large groups of people. Most of Oramus charms that involve large groups of people require them to be mad or drives them mad as part of the cost. I think it might work as a charm that turns Mad groups of people into perfect workcrews that carry out dream carried instructions to build/maintain things. I'm thinking of Glory in Buffy the Vampire Slayer getting all the crazy people in town to build her a tower.
So first off all, thank you so much for the feedback!

Secondly, could you go into your thoughts on why Wisdom of the Spheres is stronger than Sanity Shattering Instructions? I meant for it to be slightly weaker on the whole, slower to take effect (in return for taking less active effort on the Infernal's part) and an aide go allies and enemies alike

Lastly, as to the "Oramus is meant to be individual social as opposed to Cecelyne's mass social" you're absolutely right, but I don't like that so these charms are part of a sort of Informal expansion meant to let my character do mass Oramus play

This is just like, a personally design Aesthetic of mine, but I really like the idea that each Yozi charm should have a way of sort of "terraforming" a society into a specific setting.

Like, one of the core themes of the Infernal Charmsets is that Aesthetically, their powers make them look and act like villains. Malfeas By Rage Recast and Devil-Tyrant Shintai are designed so that fighting a Malfean Infernal is like fighting a 3 stage JRPG boss for instance (or Frieza). As part of that, I think each Yozi should have charms designed to warp the local area to match their aesthetics. When the an Infernal "takes over" (and this can mean anything from a Malfean Infernal conquering a kingdom to a metagonian one deciding to sit alone in a swamp) it should warp the setting so that the Brave Solar can rail against how the evil Infernal has warped and corrupted the world.

Like to me, the best charm earthscorpion ever made was Callused City Growth because it was just so elegant. In a single charm they were able to give Malfeas exactly the sort of setting warping terraforming I am talking about. Callused city growth, combined with fealty acknowledging audience and by rage Recast (charms any Malfean Infernal who wants to be a leader should have) means that a malfean leader is incentivized towards creating vast, sprawling demon cities, urban hellscape populated by monsters and ruled by fear.

In this case, both these charms are meant to be my Oramus organizational charms, meant to pair with the existing dream charms (which really are quite powerful mass social charms already anyway) in order to actualize how in many cosmic horror stories the coming of the horror is presided by strange dreams which drive people mad, while also acting as a muse to artists and scientists.

The intended use is that the Infernal wanders into town, and everyone starts recieving strange dreams and nobody knows where they came from, but there is such knowledge in those dreams (Inescable Visions + Knowledge of the Spheres) and the arts and sciences flourish! The whole city is taken with this strange fervour, this fascination for the dreams which have given them so much, and many start to worship these dreams but such strangeness is easily forgiven for it is only natural to be curious about a mystery like the dreams represent and do the dreams not deserve worship for all they have given the city? And then, of those who worship these dreams, they have their prayers answered, and the greatest of them are given great gifts and can create things normally the purview of lesser spirits or gods! What matters their madness in the face of such greatness! (Bachanial Muse and Bachanial Oracle) Soon the whole city has turned to the worship of its muse, and great works and wonders are created, many of which exist only in the minds of the mad, but are as real to them as the air we breath (planned charm for the ability to craft great things but they only effect the mad). The city had become a place both great and terrible, full of gibbering madmen who's thoughts have been spun off into creations only they can see, who walk across invisible bridges and live off of imaginary food. Paranoid and distrustful of outsiders, violent and cruel but oh so great

So basically it makes Yharnam
 
Anyone know what combination of (2e Solar) Charms could be used to justify eating a gun? Like, actually taking a physical firearm and consuming it?

I may or may not have kicked a tank out of my way because it cut me off in traffic and now the local equivalent of the gestapo is trying and failing to intimidate me and I want to emphasize how utterly unimpressed I am.
 
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Anyone know what combination of (2e Solar) Charms could be used to justify eating a gun? Like, actually taking a physical firearm and consuming it?

I may or may not have kicked a tank out of my way because it cut me off in traffic and now the local equivalent of the gestapo is trying and failing to intimidate me and I want to emphasize how utterly unimpressed I am.

You don't, because literally eating a firearm isn't a "human hero" power.

On the other hand, a simple Excellency boosted Dex + Firearms roll should be enough to disassemble it on the spot and hand it back in pieces.
 
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