mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
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because of the things he says in the rest of that paragraph which you deliberately snipped out lol
General Exalted Thread
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You might find your answer if you read the rest of the post, which you deliberately seem to have snipped out.
EDIT: Goddamn, Sidereal'd on my own fucking post. You win again @mothematics.
*sigh*
I read your post. Did you read mine? I was trying not to spaghetti-post you. It's not like I cut things out out of bad-faith.
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I did read your post, it's just that when there's nothing in the setting, nothing in the mechanics and nothing in the axioms of the setting to indicate any of the sort for Dragon-Blooded, I don't really feel the need to defend the position that they are axiomatically better than mortals at anything they focus themselves on. Since I don't agree with that position, it feels more to me that it is wiser for me to simply say that each must go to their own. I don't feel the need to defend a position I take for given. If you don't agree with it, you are free to don't do that, I'm a bit tired out of Exalted arguments for the next few days, I don't understand how @EarthScorpion can keep doing this.
Exalts don't actually have infinite potential in all areas. So a particular exalt, trying their hardest at X may just never be very good at it. PCs are special in that whatever the pc decides to spend xp on is also something the character happened to have potential to be at least that good at.
Now, there are enough Terrestrials that there will basically always be some of them who do have potential in a given area, though if their interests align with their talent is a different issue.
This, incidentally, is how the Wyld hunt is able to capture Solars. Because there are areas that a given Solar is not good in and that can be exploited. So you don't chain the Athletics supernal and you don't try to keep the Resistance supernal drugged up, etc.
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Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
I mean... I also don't think any Dragonblood will automatically be ultra-successful in everything, and maybe not even any particular thing they focus on. Opposition does exist to stymie that, and the culture of a nation makes for some pretty stiff opposition. But I would say that even a Dragonblood who's badly out of practice will still be a match, if not more than a match, for a mortal luminary in their field.
Yeah, it's important to remember that Your PCs are supposed to be a cut above the "average" Exalt of your splat, as your campaign is presumably taking place over a shorter period of time than "decades to centuries," as IIRC that's the normal amount of time it takes for an Exalt to reach the higher levels of Essence. A DB that goes into Sorcery isn't guaranteed to turn into Mnemon given enough time, nor is Dawn Caste A going to be the equal of Queen Merela.
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Does anybody have a system for changing ability dots into attribute dots in character creation? Using bonus point equivalencies is eh because of how non-granular it would be, but I can't think of a better way? Like how many atttribute dots would be fine for 10 ability dots?
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
gnnnngh
You can let it out, it's okay.
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I mean, it's been an assumption of the game since 1e. Whether it was a wise assumption is up to the question.
hls
War hamster
Oh, shit.
Mostly because the implementation was, sure, let's be generous and say iffy.
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Doesnt it also endow them with excelence?
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That's an Excellency/Charm thing.
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My read was that was part of it, but that they also just learned faster than other people, not neccessary PC fast but still noticeable.
Also I find the idea that a dragon blood would go there entire life without learning at least one excellency ik their chosen field as weird? Like the existence of competition makes it seem like it would be a requirement for any field there in
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Yes, as I said. It gives Dragon-Blooded access to Charms which they can possess. They don't possess them per default and not every Dragon-Blood will possess every Charm convenient to them. In those fields in which they excel, a Dragon-Blood will be better than a mortal and I don't contest that, but they will not excel in every field and are subject to the same limitations as normal people. When I was younger I hated German and I learnt a total of nothing over three years no matter how hard I tried, later on that changed, but back then I had mental blocks in place that simply prevented me from learning anything. There is nothing in the setting which holds that Dragon-Blooded minds do not function like normal people and there is nothing to suggest that a Dragon-Blood who cannot for his life's sake get his mind around the arts won't simply get bored or frustrated. Cynis Denovah Avaku might excel far greater than any of his mortal peers ever could in the art of blademastery, but when challenged to a classical debate in the rhetorical arts he will remember the three years he spent trying to master it but just couldn't get it.
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Yes?
This isn't what linkhyrule5 was arguing at all, tho.
He wasn't saying that all Exalts are better than mortals at everything, just that in almost any field, the top practicants are gonna be Exalts.
A mortal swordmaster may beat an Exalt that isn't interested on fighting, but she will never beat an actual Exalt swordmaster.
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Yeah fair enough but if we are talking about the Realm, the entire system seems to designed to push the Dynasts to excel. Now granted, as ManusDomini just said, there are students who simply don't want to learn a specific thing, but as noted in What Fire has Wrought, that's why the Dragonblood's Matriach and Mother go over every aspect of a childs life to make sure that they are in the field that the house needs them to excel in, and most likely this will be a field that they have shown some promise.
Yeah, I'm not saying that Joe Smith the Dragonblood is effortlessly outclassing multiple masters in their fields. I just think if Dragonblood Smith has been raised since birth to be the best swordsman on the planet, learning to wield the blade as a kid, exalted in a close competition with a peer opponent, and then spent twenty years learning and developing his swords skills from and against other Dragonblood that the expectation isn't that he's going to be a very good swordsman, with the charms to back up being a skilled swordsman. (and then cross out 'sword skills and factor in a great many skills and your likely to find at least ONE exalt amongst the thousands of dragonblooded who has practised that skill to nigh-mastery, whether its painting, playwrighting, medicine etc.
Yeah, I'm not saying that Joe Smith the Dragonblood is effortlessly outclassing multiple masters in their fields. I just think if Dragonblood Smith has been raised since birth to be the best swordsman on the planet, learning to wield the blade as a kid, exalted in a close competition with a peer opponent, and then spent twenty years learning and developing his swords skills from and against other Dragonblood that the expectation isn't that he's going to be a very good swordsman, with the charms to back up being a skilled swordsman. (and then cross out 'sword skills and factor in a great many skills and your likely to find at least ONE exalt amongst the thousands of dragonblooded who has practised that skill to nigh-mastery, whether its painting, playwrighting, medicine etc.
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Right but the argument, as I understood it, was that every field would have a dragon blood who was the master of that field, or close enough that makes no difference
Not that every dragonblooded was a master of every field
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Yeah but I wasn't arguing against linkhyrule lol. He got into the discussion later, I've never disputed that most fields would have Dragon-Blooded masters, I disputed that it would simply be as easy as deciding to one day master it, because a significant amount of posts levied against my arguments were in fact based around the fact that any Dragon-Blood who decides to pursue a feat will simply outcompete everyone but other Exalted rather than face mental blocks, training problems and boredom like actual people.
that's very nice but it's an argument orthogonal to what i said
So basically, there will be Dragon-Blooded masters of their fields, but that is because they are "masters of their fields who are Dragon-Blooded," and not "Dragon-Blooded and therefore masters of their fields." Is that what you're saying?
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Yes. Dragon-Blooded are still people. If you are a master of your field, it is because you have dedicated yourself to that field, for which the ceiling is a lot higher for Dragon-Blooded, allowing them to reach heights that mortals cannot. The floor is also heightened, but not as a result of Dragon-Blooded being Dragon-Blooded, but because the Realm is a wealthy society and Dynasts are at the top, allowing them to hire whatever teachers and tutors necessary as well as send their precious children through years and years of one of the best education systems in all of Creation and then send them to Secondary School and then give them a place in society where they have the place, wealth and status to experiment safely. In other words, infrastructure once again proves advantageous and favourable; Dragon-Blooded are just as much shaped by society as they are shapers of it.
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I mean, isn't this kidna what Aspect/Favored Abilities are? Things you can always learn pretty trivially, so long as you have experience? Sure, you might have difficulties learning a normal ability, but a Fire Aspect learning swordsmanship should always do so pretty easily if they put in the least amount of effort, because they are innately inclined to the discipline, even if they dislike it. Sure, they could never practice a skill at all, but if they do spend time, then they get better returns than a mortal due to being an Exalt doing a thing their Exaltation is innately designed to do well.
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I would contend that favoured abilities are a game abstraction intended to make players feel good about having lots of dots but that is as opposed to the rest of what I said, a very distinctly 3e view and probably not that likely to get a lot of friends.