Mostly to help me follow along. I'm rereading through the logs and it'd be nice to see what options you do and don't have, that sort of thing. As someone who has never gotten to play but has always really wanted to, your legs have greatly helped me internalize how the game works in practice.
I know you meant to say Logs, but the idea that Ink's legs are what helped you is funny.
 
So I have a First Circle Demon writeup sitting in LibreOffice.

It has a name. It has a defined powerset. It has a defined niche. It has a coherent aesthetic.

It just needs a Limit condition.

Now, five months after completing every other component of the demon, I throw up my hands and cast myself upon the mercy of the thread.


Zsályiasztók, the Mind's-Garden Attendants
Demon of the First Circle
Orphaned Progeny of the deceased Curator of Ten Thousand Horrors



Few in Hell spoke of fallen Demesprudensi while it yet lived.

The Curator of Ten Thousand Horrors was a scrabbling, twisted creature, the shameful successor to a far grander Second Circle Demon struck down during the Balorian Crusade. A profoundly inept schemer, a teeth-grindingly indecisive ruler of lesser spirits, a painfully haphazard scholar; in all ways, it was a loathsome wretch better suited to the role one of Hell's countless, nameless scavengers than that of an Unquestionable's envoy – a role it never once carried out for its greater self, rather appropriately, even unto its own destruction. Instead, the Curator of Ten Thousand Horrors wandered the blighted heaths of Oramus' domain, sculpting vagabond droves of lesser demons from its own Essence and sending them forth on haphazard "missions" to steal (or bestow) certain objects, destroy (or raise) certain monuments, and purge (or inflict) specific forms of mental derangement from specific gatherings of demons. These excursions seldom ended to its satisfaction, nor that of the various other Citizens whose territory its servants intruded upon.

Without the wisdom to manipulate its peers, the caution to avoid provoking them, the social acumen to take part in the games of information and favor played among Hell's denizens, the intelligence to effectively manage its subordinates, or the strength to stand alone, Demesprudensi's downfall was certain. In the span of a century, it managed to unite a full dozen fiefs in mutual loathing of it through sheer tactless gall, and was struck down a full dozen times before its greater self, aggrieved at Demesprudensi's incompetence, intervened to re-educate its wayward Expressive Soul. In a final act of insanity, the Curator of Ten Thousand Horrors condescended to its own Unquestionable progenitor, and met an appropriately ignominious end: being sold to (and then rendered by) Khereon Ul as material for their workings.

Its manifold spawn swiftly scattered in the wake of their maker's destruction, and most of the demonic breeds Demesprudensi crafted have long since died to the last. A few individual specimens of these lost genii survive as servants, trophies, pets, or beasts of burden to various Citizens, but the zsályiasztók alone have become fully established in the more inhospitable regions of the Demon City. Where Metagoyan bayous flood the air with vicious linguistic parasites; where the echoes of the Entelechial Chorister breed madness in demons' dreams, where bitter streams of narrative poison entire Ellogean ecosystems with psychotic delusion or nihilistic despair – such noxious wastelands attract the Mind's-Garden Attendants like flies to honey, rich as they are in opportunities to utilize their unique talents.

For the zsályiasztók are chirurgeons of the spirit, natural savants in the art of correcting disorder in the mind and soul. Their countless white-bone instruments peel back each patient's flesh painlessly, delicately, to untwist coils of synesthesia from the nerves, or extract teratomic deposits of imbalanced Essence from their entrails. Similarly, they pick through their patients' minds as a mortal chirurgeon might pick through the organs of hers, tracing the source of mental contagion through their memories – and, if offered sufficient compensation, providing bolstering injections of their own Essence to strengthen weak wills, ferreting out a past life's recollections from mortals, or discerning esoteric knowledge hidden between the turnings of a demon's chakras.

Their own forms are workings of spartan efficiency; a zsályiasztás' flesh consists of countless grey-blue tendons networked around their many, many bones, which naturally grow to form the various implements of their chosen profession. Most hold themselves in a roughly humanoid form, shifting what tools are needed at the moment to the ends of their "arms" through intricate tensing and twisting of their tendons, hiding any excess behind the clothlike sheets of skin which sprout from the junctures of their nerves; the resultant image of a man-shaped menagerie of pristine white surgical tools held together by thin cords, emerging from within voluminous cream-colored garments that conceal everything from "neck" to "wrists" to "ankles", is reminiscent of a Shogunate madman's depiction of his own caretakers. Of course, their abundance of skin serves a purpose as well; Mind's-Garden Attendants expertly shear excess lengths of it at the conclusion of each operation, using their own skin to bundle and contain extracted neuroses for sale.

Such commerce is one of the cornerstones of the zsályiasztók's success in Hell – few other breeds of demon can materialize insanities and mental distortions and preserve them with such a sublime ease (and profit margin), and there are many demonic thaumaturges who can find use for a vial of powdered megalomania, a crystallized sphere of Sanceline's transcendental whispers, or lengths of delusional parasitosis pickled in the thin, watery byproduct of Metagoyan spores' sprouting in the brain of a neomah. So do the Mind's-Garden Attendants earn their sobriquet: by using their client base as a crop from which riches may be reaped.

This is not to say the zsályiasztók are heartless – they merely consider the sale of a patient's maladies a necessary means for the latter to compensate them. How else could they provide their services to even the lowliest paupers of Hell without beggaring themselves? And furthermore, monetization of the disease in no ways diminishes the cure. They provide full services for full payment, and for their graciousness in procuring the latter they consider themselves paragons of ethics.

That sense of moral self-assuredness allows many a zsályiasztás to rest easy as he treats dissidents to a Citizen's rule sent into exile at gulags on the edge of the Trackless Quag, where they are made to harvest vile-but-valuable herbs and medicinal fungi, or tacitly encourages his patients to remain in close proximity to a twisted Malfean sepulchre stained with the Ebon Dragon's tears, keeping their minds and souls clean of the contrarian sicknesses the unnaturally umbral liquid inflicts, even if their patients must then beggar themselves to pay the price of conventional treatment for its purely physical side-effects.

Summoning: (Obscurity 1/2) Mortal thaumaturges frequently call upon the Mind's-Garden Attendants for their peculiar form of surgery; while not as versatile as a sesselja, few Demons of the First Circle outmatch them in the treatment of mental or spiritual contagion. More learned diabolists seek the reagents they procure in the process of treatment, which the zsályiasztók eagerly supply if provided access to suitable patients and appropriate recompense.

@Aleph, @EarthScorpion, @ManusDomine, @TenfoldShields, @Omicron, literally anyone who gives a fuck: save this writeup from my failure? Please?
 
Huh. On the subject of first circle demons, is there something that they should not be able to do? Any role they cannot fulfil?
 
So I never looked at Lunars, so it's possible this issue has already been solved, but it looks like the whole "turn into animals" thing will run into the same problem polymorph did in dnd. Namely that it's impossible to balance a charm that gives that many options.

Now one way you can solve this is having the initial purchase of the charm only provide 1 form with each additional form choosing xp and then you don't need to balance the forms because better ones cost more. Like demon creation in @Aleph and @EarthScorpion 's fourth soul demon creation stuff.

That's not my preferred solution though. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that @Revlid 's mutations worked really well at replicating animals since you could just take a human, give them mutations like Natural Weapon, Enhanced Smell and Pack Instincts to created a wolf. With that in mind I think something like this would be a lot better.

Totem Animal Form
Cost: -; Type: Permanent
Duration: Until Dismissed
Keywords: Obvious
Mins: Essence 2
Prerequisite Charms: None
A Lunar who learns this Charm selects a package of (Essence * 10) points of temporary positive mutations as a "library" of options representing the totem animal (or animals) they most identify with. No mutation's rating may exceed (Essence) points. She must allocate all of these points at the time of purchase, even if that means choosing mutations she doesn't really want as filler.
Once allocated, the library remains fixed. However, raising Essence allows the Infernal to re-allocate all (Essence x 10) mutation points from scratch as though she just acquired the Charm.
Whenever the Infernal reaches Bonfire levels of Anima, (Essence*2) points of mutations of the Infernal's choice manifest. This is not optional.
Once the Infernal's anima recedes, the mutations may be dismissed. If the Infernal chooses not to dismiss them, then they remain until the Infernal's anima reaches Bonfire, and recedes again.

Animal Shape Stance
Cost: -; Type: Permanent
Duration: One Scene
Keywords: Obvious
Mins: Essence 3
Prerequisite Charms: Totem Animal Form
A Lunar who learns this Charm may spend 5 minutes meditating in order to manifest up to (Essence *2) mutations from their mutations library. In addition, by hunting down and eating a living creature the Infernal may earn additional mutation points which represent abilities and traits of that creature as determined by the story teller. For every mutation point gained in this manner the Lunar must spend 1 xp.

EDIT:

Also I'd just straight up make really strong abilities (like super poison spit) into charms. Probably add a "Hunt" keyword or something which makes killing an appropriate animal an explicit part of the training time for those charms.
 
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The balancing factors as far as I can tell for 3e Lunars are as follows.

1. They Obey your dicecaps and health levels so even if you turn into a tyrant lizard if you don't got the dex and brawl to back it up you are still a giant wiener.
2. Charms can have both a protean and totem key word. Protean keywords boost the effect of the charm if you are in the proper animal form, ie has wings or is a predator.
3. Totem lets you buy charms with different attributes based on you choice of spirit animal. So in the preview the poison tree is normally in stamina but if you have a poisonous spirit animal you can buy it with wits
4. It does take a charm to take the legendary size merit, it costs like 15? motes up front and then reduces your mote regeneration to 1.
 
3. Totem lets you buy charms with different attributes based on you choice of spirit animal. So in the preview the poison tree is normally in stamina but if you have a poisonous spirit animal you can buy it with wits
Unless I'm missing something, this feels of dubious utility, a minor XP discount if you happen to have both the right Totem and the right ability favored.... I suppose on charms with high ATT mins might give it a little more utility but if your ATT score in the ATT is low the charm probably will be a lot weaker giving that bit even more dubious of utility....
 
Sorcerers can do stuff like create mountains of gold, pearls the size of a fist, egg sized jewels, and other, assorted resource 5 things, right? With the right workings and spells?

So can it be said that a sorcerer with enough knowledge can easily recreate resource 5 things?
 
Out of all the issues Lunars had, I don't think 'shapeshifting is OP and impossible to balance' has ever been one.
Eh, you can turn into a bird and fly, or a fish and swim, or a bug or vermin and hide. You can do all that uninvested in any charms towards mobility or stealth. Not to mention the utility of just being able to look like a different person, to say nothing of a specific person, again both with no investment in disguise.

It's not THE issue with Lunars but it's definitely a huge balancing issue (More so even now with animals getting a lot more useful combat abilities in Ex3).

I personally though Revlid's solution for TAW was quite good but it it really wouldn't work for how Ex3 is setup so I'll be curious to see how the devs decide to tackle it.
 
Sorcerers can do stuff like create mountains of gold, pearls the size of a fist, egg sized jewels, and other, assorted resource 5 things, right? With the right workings and spells?

So can it be said that a sorcerer with enough knowledge can easily recreate resource 5 things?
Goddamnit Accelerator, there is an Exalted questions thread for this.

EDIT: And now I see that you brought this shit into this thread because you didn't get an instant answer in that thread. That kind of shit is not okay.
 
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I am strongly opposed to any attempts to nerf Lunar shapeshifting in the name of 'balance'.

Yes, a Lunar has capabilities that no other Exalt can mimic and can do several things better and easier than anyone else. That's the point. The game won't break if the Lunar Exalted are unequivocally best at their niche.
 
I am strongly opposed to any attempts to nerf Lunar shapeshifting in the name of 'balance'.

Yes, a Lunar has capabilities that no other Exalt can mimic and can do several things better and easier than anyone else. That's the point. The game won't break if the Lunar Exalted are unequivocally best at their niche.
If you're talking about my idea I was trying to simplify, not nerf.
 
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