Most of the way through chapter 3; thus far, Geist's Underworld is very nearly everything I wanted Exlated's Underworld to be, and they krewe mechanics are pretty interesting. I think they could be an excellent way of representing a death cult or an Abyssal's entourage.
 
Have you checked @EarthScorpion's rewrite of the Underworld? It uses Geist as one of its main influences.
Took a look at it and it's not really hitting the buttons that Giest did for me. I don't know if that's because I'm reading 2e and ES was working from Geist 1e, and there are any significant differences between editions, or if ES just didn't use the concepts I liked the most, so I'll track down Geist 1e before I make any specific comments.

To keep on topic, I think Abyssals could benefit from drawing more on Geist than Vampire; not by making them more like Sin-Eaters, but making them more like geists themselves. I've always thought that the "throwing away your name to take one a long an edgy title" was fucking stupid, but it would work a lot better if the process of becoming an Abyssal Exalt cost them so much of their identity that they no longer remember their former selves, and their title becomes all they have. Rebellion and/or redemption narratives could parallel a struggle to reclaim their identities, to become a person again instead of an outline.
 
I've always thought that the "throwing away your name to take one a long an edgy title" was fucking stupid
You died, you didn't "throw your name away" so much as it was ripped from your worthless carcass. Everything even vaguely related to Oblivion seems to have had its' name eaten.
And the Title was the first gift your Deathlord ever gave to you, only a non-loyalist would willingly insult them by refusing that.
 
You died, you didn't "throw your name away" so much as it was ripped from your worthless carcass. Everything even vaguely related to Oblivion seems to have had its' name eaten.
And the Title was the first gift your Deathlord ever gave to you, only a non-loyalist would willingly insult them by refusing that.
Except your name isn't gone, you're just not allowed to use it or be called by it or the Neverborn get pissy at you. I was talking about the Title replacing that chunk of your identity that you lost along with your name.

I noticed that everything associated with Oblivion has had its name eaten, but like many things with Oblivion it is poorly executed. It doesn't feel like it has anymore impact on the character in question than, say, the Perfect of Paragon or the Scarlet Empress going by their titles instead of their real names, except that the living don't get punished if their real name gets used.
 
Except your name isn't gone, you're just not allowed to use it or be called by it or the Neverborn get pissy at you. I was talking about the Title replacing that chunk of your identity that you lost along with your name.

I noticed that everything associated with Oblivion has had its name eaten, but like many things with Oblivion it is poorly executed. It doesn't feel like it has anymore impact on the character in question than, say, the Perfect of Paragon or the Scarlet Empress going by their titles instead of their real names, except that the living don't get punished if their real name gets used.
I think that aspect of being an Abyssal should constantly feel like missing a limb, that dull familiar ache that just won't cease. Sometimes it's in the back of your mind, sometimes it's all you can think of but mostly it's pretty easy to push away. And then someone says your original name and it's like losing it all over again with the hacking off of the limb, the brutal sensation of losing pints of blood and then the agony of cauterization.

Additional supernatural aspects like having your former destiny flaring off with omen-static and shit to be added to flavour.
 
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Except your name isn't gone, you're just not allowed to use it or be called by it or the Neverborn get pissy at you.
I think that aspect of being an Abyssal should constantly feel like missing a limb, that dull familiar ache that just won't cease.
It might be better if they actually forget their name as a part of it, and are incapable of remembering it for more than a few( extremely traumatic) seconds at a time.
 
To keep on topic, I think Abyssals could benefit from drawing more on Geist than Vampire; not by making them more like Sin-Eaters, but making them more like geists themselves. I've always thought that the "throwing away your name to take one a long an edgy title" was fucking stupid, but it would work a lot better if the process of becoming an Abyssal Exalt cost them so much of their identity that they no longer remember their former selves, and their title becomes all they have. Rebellion and/or redemption narratives could parallel a struggle to reclaim their identities, to become a person again instead of an outline.
In that case...

What about organizing the Abyssal Charmsets around broad archetypes, so their chargen Charm purchases essentially create a (crude and frustratingly uninformative) collage of their Intimacies - who they loved, where they lived, how they died.

That gets you scenarios like an Abyssal who's obsessed with music because one of his starting Charmsets is all about being a creepy music ghost, but he doesn't actually know for sure whether that means that his living self liked music, or that one of his loved ones was a musician, or that music was a major component of his cultural background, or what - all he really has is a set of characteristics that he knows were important when he was alive, and he just sort of guesses at what they mean when taken as a whole. The only category that's always 100% crystal clear is the one which represents how they died.
 
It might be better if they actually forget their name as a part of it, and are incapable of remembering it for more than a few( extremely traumatic) seconds at a time.
For as long as they remain an Abyssal, at least. If they achieve redemption and become living Solars, they regain what they lost, and if they choose to embrace their new existence as an Abyssal, then they no longer need their old name, do they?

In that case...

What about organizing the Abyssal Charmsets around broad archetypes, so their chargen Charm purchases essentially create a (crude and frustratingly uninformative) collage of their Intimacies - who they loved, where they lived, how they died.

That gets you scenarios like an Abyssal who's obsessed with music because one of his starting Charmsets is all about being a creepy music ghost, but he doesn't actually know for sure whether that means that his living self liked music, or that one of his loved ones was a musician, or that music was a major component of his cultural background, or what - all he really has is a set of characteristics that he knows were important when he was alive, and he just sort of guesses at what they mean when taken as a whole. The only category that's always 100% crystal clear is the one which represents how they died.
I love it. The death representation category could be their equivalent of Supernals?
 
In that case...

What about organizing the Abyssal Charmsets around broad archetypes, so their chargen Charm purchases essentially create a (crude and frustratingly uninformative) collage of their Intimacies - who they loved, where they lived, how they died.

That gets you scenarios like an Abyssal who's obsessed with music because one of his starting Charmsets is all about being a creepy music ghost, but he doesn't actually know for sure whether that means that his living self liked music, or that one of his loved ones was a musician, or that music was a major component of his cultural background, or what - all he really has is a set of characteristics that he knows were important when he was alive, and he just sort of guesses at what they mean when taken as a whole. The only category that's always 100% crystal clear is the one which represents how they died.
It's an awesome idea, very fitting and flavorful, but it does raise the issue of every single Abyssal having to have their own charmset. Unless you mean that this is how their Supernal and Favoured abilities would be distributed, in which case go ahead.
 
It's an awesome idea, very fitting and flavorful, but it does raise the issue of every single Abyssal having to have their own charmset. Unless you mean that this is how their Supernal and Favoured abilities would be distributed, in which case go ahead.
My original skeleton was 1e Geist, where what powers you have access to is heavily influenced by the circumstances of your death.

Your idea does make it more workable, though: I'd probably try to cram as much conceptual space as possible into the Charms that can be keyed directly to Abilities, but then you'd have a secondary group of Charms that are Underworld-y representations of less directly applicable concepts.

Presumably, you'd have five mini-Charmsets that represent how you died, five mini-Charmsets that give a broad-terms description of your original Motivation, and maybe a third set of five mini-Charmsets that represent your dominant emotional reaction to being an amnesiac not!geist.

The third one I actually have a decent sketch for, since they'd essentially be designed to make you good at whatever your chosen Caste-equivalent does: "Fury" makes you good at punchmanship (Dawn), "Obsession" makes you good at unearthing spooky Underworld lore (Twilight), and "Confusion" makes you good at hiding/ambushing/skulduggery (Night).

A Zenith-equivalent would probably be called "Driven" or something, and represent that you're dealing with your situation by trying to build an infrastructure around yourself, so you specialize in getting cold bodies between you and possible threats through charisma and other social methods, but it'd probably omit the Resistance part of the Zenith so that you're more dependent on having patsies and lackeys and allies to fight on your behalf.

That probably means making a bit of a hash out of the Eclipse-equivalent. Off the top of my head, you'd alter it from Bureaucracy/Linguistics/Ride/Sail/Socialize to Athletics/Awareness/Resistance/Ride/Sail. Bureaucracy goes to "Driven" in exchange for Resistance, and Linguistics & Socialize go to "Confusion" in exchange for Awareness & Athletics. Thus, the Zenith-Equivalent, which we'll call "Restless" for now, becomes all about being a wandering shade that explores the farthest, hairiest reaches of the Underworld.

Blagh, I need to condense some of this or else I'm going to end up posting the text equivalent of an arrows-all-over-the-place diagram.
 
Took a look at it and it's not really hitting the buttons that Giest did for me. I don't know if that's because I'm reading 2e and ES was working from Geist 1e, and there are any significant differences between editions, or if ES just didn't use the concepts I liked the most, so I'll track down Geist 1e before I make any specific comments.

To keep on topic, I think Abyssals could benefit from drawing more on Geist than Vampire; not by making them more like Sin-Eaters, but making them more like geists themselves. I've always thought that the "throwing away your name to take one a long an edgy title" was fucking stupid, but it would work a lot better if the process of becoming an Abyssal Exalt cost them so much of their identity that they no longer remember their former selves, and their title becomes all they have. Rebellion and/or redemption narratives could parallel a struggle to reclaim their identities, to become a person again instead of an outline.
Mind giving a rundown of what you like about Geist for those who haven't read it?
 
I find myself liking the idea of Ghost-Eaters. They're the type of thing I'd like more of in Exalted. It makes me wonder if the systems for Shaping Rituals and Sorcerous Merits could be expanded to be useable with other forms of supernatural power and/or applications of Essence.

Also, it occurs to me that there are very few, if any, methods of stealing supernatural capability in Exalted, at least that are coming to mind. You can be born into it, stumble into it, be granted it, win it, earn it, bargain for it, purchase it, train or study for it, etc. However, there isn't any substantial narrative support (can think of how to phrase it better) for taking it.

I imagine that to at least some degree, that is a feature and not a bug, otherwise the players would be constantly beset by people trying (unsuccessfully) to steal their Protagonistium. Even so, it's a bit odd, since there's no shortage of stories about gods or heroes getting shit because they yoinked it from someone or somewhere else. For example, Anzu stealing the Tablets of Destiny, Seigfried gaining invulnerability by bathing in Fafnir's blood, Isis poisoning Ra and forcing him to cough up omnipotence, etc.

Even if it makes sense, it's paradoxically still bizzare that in Exalt, of all settings, there's no way to obtain power by stabbing the right person in the back or climbing over a sufficiently large pile of corpses.

Mind giving a rundown of what you like about Geist for those who haven't read it?
Going to head home from work soon, so I'll write something up later.
 
You can't steal someone's exaltation. That doesn't mean you can't sacrifice them for power, or the means for a sorcerous working, or gift them to a supernatural being as a nerve stapled slave.
 
Exaltations aren't the only means to power. You can do a lot of what you describe to spirits, and that would provide a large boost compared to most humans.
 
RAKETA, THE DEATH FROM ABOVE

Many are the myraid threats within the demon city. Many are the dangers on the street. A Kigyo may strike from below. A dark alley may attack from a dark alley. A denizen, walking past you, may pull a knife and gut you. Your food may be poisoned. The Silent Wind may come. Some climb onto the top of roofs to escape this death, and lie there, glad that, except for the mostly-harmless Agatae, no one can reach them with ease.

They are wrong.

Here comes the Raketa, their 6 wings buzzing on dark chitinous plate. Their 8 legs beneath them, their gigantic, red eyes scanning above, below, and in front of them for prey. When they spy an unfortunate, they swoop over and above him, contracting muscles and pulling away plates of steel-hard chitin to reveal spincters and ovipositers, all which drop parasites and symbiotes which detonate with great force when dropped below. Some contain liquids which are vitorlic, sending hapless victims screaming and causing stone to smoke. Some are filled with flames, and the green light of the fire mixes in with the sunlight. Some are simply armoured in the same shell as the Raketa, and when the explode, up to 30 yards of mortals are left bleeding on the floor. The raketa lands upon the gore and viscera that is left upon the ground, and vomits up its stomach contents upon them, the acids within melting the remains of its victims down into a slurry, and then slurps it up.

The Raketa are used by Ocatavian, as bombers and scouts. Their 6 wings enable them to fly with great speed, though they are not very intelligent. They are skilled at their craft, however, and many in Malfeas have learnt to fear their sight. Their appearance provokes the counterattacks of Agatae-riders and Glass Hawk Lancers. In the sky above armies, a dance of death breaks out as the Raketa's defenders and attackers do battle. They are summoned into creation for the same purpose, and another. Their stomach contents can be used to break down hardy metals and impervious structures, and are often used by sorcerers who wish to render metals into liquid form, then put them together to make a new, stronger, alloy.
 
Ok guys. A spell based uon this scene:



CONJURING SUSTENANCE FROM NOTHINGNESS
Cost: 15m
Duration: 1 day

The sorcerer first designates a group of people who he wants to feed, which can be of any magnitude. However, the base costs of the spell starts at 15 motes, and for every increase in magnitude, 3 motes are added.

The sorcerer then makes the mudra of the god of feasting and speaks the word in Ancient Realm for 'food'. In his hand is conjured a blue silk bag, thrown onto the ground in front of him. The bag opens... and out floats plates, bowls, cups, forks, spoons, chopsticks, knives, platters, trenchers, and jugs, all containing the best mortal food there is. The cutlery and food all contain food that a particular member of the group loves the most, and floats to him/ her. The food is always filling, well-received, and is never rots away.

Anyone who receives food from the bag, and eats it, does not suffer hunger penalties for the next (sorcerer's essence + occult) days, and receives 2 dice to resisting hardship/ maybe an intimacy of thankfulness to the sorcerer?

TREE OF BOUNTY - terrestrial circle sorcery
Cost: 10m

The sorcerer picks a fruit, any fruit. Then throws it up into the air, while murmuring the words which the Emerald Mother spoke when the first trees emerged from Creation. The fruit scatters into ashes, which land on the ground. From there, a tree grows. It does not matter the condition. A tree meant for the east, could survive in the firey mountains of the South or in water-logged soil of the West. It will grow. It then grows to a stately tree, several dozen meters in height, with hundreds of branches, all bearing fruit. When the fruit is plucked, another is created within minutes, growing to maturity before the bearer's eyes.

The fruits are always healthy, sweet, and large, and the tree itself is immune to disease and parasites. After (sorcerer's occult score) years, the tree's regenerative ability fades. It is still immune to disease, and the fruits are still the best possible, but it no longer regrows its fruits in seconds.
 
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SCULPTING THE SUBSTITUTION
Cost: 10m, 2wp
Duration: 1 day

The sorcerer casts a spell, creating a simulacra based on himself. He let's this occupy the same space as himself.... and slips away. As long as the simulacra exists, and he does not attack, he makes a roll of dex + stealth, with a bonus sucesses of occult. The -3 penalty to movement during stealth is nullified.

The substitution can talk, gesture, move.... but it cannot inflict harm. It has all the attributes and abilities of the sorcerer, alongside a more pool connected to the sorcerer and a excellencies, but little else.

The substitution has one health level, and no matter the appearance, no hardness and soak. A single strike will destroy it.... and the sorcerer will be revealed at that moment. And vice versa. When the sorcerer leaves stealth, the illusion shatters.
 
I made this as a second-circle demon for Xerysis, the Fear that Shatters Nations, who may be found here: Oramus - Exalted - Unofficial Wiki I'm worried I made him a bit too benevolent, but I was going for a contrast with his greater self.

Eaxeros, the Fog in the Mind
Demon of the Second Circle
Messenger Soul of the Fear that Shatters Nations

Many a sight may be terrifying, but how much more so if it intrudes upon a place of safety and security? A monster may roam the wilds and drive fear into the hearts of men, but when that monster follows them home and steps across the threshold, how much worse is it for that profound violation? This is the service that Eaxeros once performed for his greater self – he brought lassitude and feelings of safety, fogging the minds and sight of men so that, when Xerysis came and bore him away, they were that much more afeared of the cold, cruel world he exposes and, trusting nothing but themselves, turned on their fellows with all the more fervour, hoping that they might regain that security. The Fog has not met his greater self in hundreds of years, though he knows not why he has been abandoned. Thrice he has espied the Fear that Shatters Nations in the distance and thrice the dread wind has sped away from him faster than his fog-feet can follow.

A sober-seeming intellectual and a well-known philosopher of the demon realm, Eaxeros spends much of his time in the form of a tall man of the West with cool, alabaster-white skin and robed in the colours of cloud. His eyes are hollow and contain nothing but a shifting fog, which curls from the sockets and drips from his lips when he speaks. He never travels faster than a leisurely walk, because he simply cannot move any faster. He is only fog, after all, and fog moves swiftly only when borne by the wind. The Fog in the Mind holds only a relatively small court of his own, composed of those first-circle citizens which he deems to have sufficient intellect and wit to match him in debate on the subjects of fear, truth, security, society and a thousand other topics alike in their abstractedness.

He has even been known to ask the opinions of serfs or prayer-slaves, though only rarely do they have something of worth to contribute to the discussion. When they do, however, Eaxeros will often patronize their applications for citizenship, and until they have accrued achievements enough to qualify them for such will allow them to follow his court and to serve them as he travels from the realm of one demon lord to the next. Prayer-slaves, of course, have no such chance to apply, but in such cases Eaxeros will often introduce them to the worship of his oversoul and teach them the ways of praying for ascension, such that they might become demons of the first circle and join his immortal school of philosophy – provided they survive, of course, and are not driven so mad that they offer no coherent insight. Eaxeros is rarely welcome in the courts of demon lords, but his reputation as a patron for citizenship earns him lodgings from serfs wherever he goes. They wait upon him and his hand and foot, and jostle to be in a position such that if the demon lord should address a question to the room they might be able to answer it. Such politicking is beneath the notice of the Fog, though, and he cares nothing for it.

In his other form, the Fog is a bank of mist which refracts light strangely, rolling silently across the ground. In this shape, his touch dulls the senses and fear-instincts of men and demons alike, while they see in his shifting mists and lights the forms of family, lovers, hearth and home. Eaxeros rarely takes this form, as doing so scatters his thoughts across his entire self, rendering him slow and dull – a feeling he despises – unless he is gathered all in one place. He will also take this form if Adorjan bears down on him, for although eh lacks the speed to escape her it is in his nature to be borne before wind, and so he rides her killing hurricanes until deposited somewhere new. Sometimes, he will gather his mist-self into the shape of a three-tailed cat the size of a yeddim calf and go abroad in that form, although he remains as insubstantial as ever. He is far more comfortable like this than as a full mist-bank, and the shape serves well for combat when necessary, as the effects of his fog are similarly concentrated, causing opponents to idle and daydream as he slips away on silent cat-feet. Occasionally he take his full fog-form to earn the favour of a demon lord, dulling the fear and veiling the eyes of their enemies in order to earn lodgings in the palace of a second circle soul, but always he moves on, seeking some clue as to why his greater self has abandoned him so.

Summoning: Eaxeros is summoned to Creation most often to serve in the same role as he does for demon lords, bewitching the senses of his summoner's enemies, though he dislikes doing so and will make this clear, though he can be placated by enlightening conversation or the summoning of his court to attend him. Such sorcerers must beware, though, as the Fog in the Mind has no ability to control who is affected by his fog once they enter. Eaxeros is, much to his annoyance, almost never summoned for tutoring or conversation, for although he knows many strange, obscure and esoteric facts and figures he is master of no art and his learning is bitty and fragmented, a vast collection of trivia rather than a scholar's knowledge. Nevertheless, should a sorcerer prove wise and clever enough to match the Fog in conversation, he will offer to teach his summoner the ways of prayer for ascension, and if they survive with sanity sufficiently intact to converse with him, will often induct them into his court.

Eaxeros may escape Creation when aurorae light the heavens and a fog creeps over a town or army camp, becoming the fog and offering solace and delight to the mortals there until the fog is burned off by the morning sun.
 
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What it looks like when a Scourge learns a couple of Isidorite charms, specifically Foe-Hurling Gore Strike and Tower-Toppling Tantrum Toss, and wields a fuckheug artefact axe:
 
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