Longer lifespan and thus higher potential?
Natural talent at Elemental manipulation and Brotherhood effects?
Massive religious backing?
General Exalted Thread
Natural talent at Elemental manipulation and Brotherhood effects?
Massive religious backing?
- Location
- Singapore
Wait. When they said the mortals have mutations, what does this mean?
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Read the books.
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
Or just answer his question. You're not required to reply, or feed the troll if you think he's doing this on purpose.
- Location
- Singapore
Warning For Marginal Behavior
Fucking no.
I was referring to the one piece shard. Because a mortal with mutations is still a joke compared to a dragonblooded.
Here's a question. Are the "powerful normal people" powerful because this is an explicit, core part of the actual world that must be modeled (e.g. Eclipse Phase, where your average mortal soldier wearing a combat body should have multiple action penalty reducers and superhuman attributes because it's a core conceit of the game that baseline humans suck and necessary for the gameworld to make sense) or are they more akin to special effects, i.e. stunts, which can just be done by adjusting a bunch of tables (like how much someone can lift or how high someone can jump) upwards and letting people get away with more shit in their stunts before using Charms?
Like, why do mortals need to have Strength 10 Dexterity 10 or whatever? Is this so necessary to actually make the setting work?
Warning: NOPE
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
nope
They're not allowed to mock your questions, and you're not allowed to insult their replies. WfMB and 3 days out to think about it.
Exalted has a core concept of normal people having caps on how powerful they can be and that they have limited access to supernatural power. This exists to let the exalted serve the role of special larger than life heroes (in the old school sense).
If you put them into a setting were those larger than life heroic roles are already filled with people that are similarly larger than life heroes the exalted lose their narrative specialness and end up looking weak because the limited factors (like essence pools and needing to pay for excellencies) exalted have often don't apply to the locals.
Shifting tables works fine if all you are doing is raising the bar for all humans including exalted, but that won't work under all conditions. If the gap between normal soldiers and elites is comparable between mortals and elder exalts then you have problems. By the narrative rules that exalted work through that elite that is slaughtering armies Dynasty Warriors style shouldn't exist without being an exalt of some flavor.
Similarly giving out supernatural powers beyond or comparable to exalted messes up the dynamic.
Look at Naruto. Ninja particularly high end ones operate at a level of power both physical and magical through chakra. They have completely normal people through hard work compete with the immense supernatural power of ninjutsu which itself is basically celestial tier martial arts or sorcery that lacks the flaws of normal sorcery in combat.
In the later parts of the series they are throwing around map rewriting levels of destructive power which isn't even a possible option in exalted without the use of poorly written elder essence charms. Solar circle sorcery tends to cap out at nuke.
Exalted just doesn't deal in straight physical damage of that sort when it can be noped by conceptual effects.
Summoning a Second Circle Demon is within the remit of Celestial Sorcery, or bringing in a major elemental.
As for poorly written elder essence charms, Neighborhood Relocation Scheme is an E4 Sidereal charm.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
I mean, it's One Piece. Having creepy inbred freaks be 100% right about how they're the perfect life form and you should hop on their leprous dicks right now is the opposite of how to do One Piece properly.
No, I'm not ever letting go of the fact that canon Terrestrial Exalts are mechanically geared toward being Lebensborn enthusiasts thanks to the implications of how Breeding works, and having them in One Piece as their original "my power is born of my superior
Well, for the Celestial Dragons, the guys still transmitting Exaltation via reproduction? They suck. They suck hard, because they're a hideously outdated model that should have been retired long ago. Their entire purpose in-setting is being a symbol of how fucked up the World Government has become through one thousand years of degrading leadership.
For the other 99% of Terrestrial Exalts in the setting? They get to cast their voices out on the winds, or summon sound-ghosts out of their guitars, or supercharge the men they command in battle - their Exaltations mean they can unlock powers beyond superhuman expressions of raw physical ability.
tl;dr - Whitebeard is insanely strong and insanely tough, but he can't get stronger just by standing on bare stone, or transform into fire or leaves to evade an attack.
Likewise, Dragonbloods can branch out their supernatural BS in ways no mortal or Devil Fruit user can, and a group of them working together is probably the single most adaptable & multifaceted fighting force you can get without gathering up a carefully selected team of ultra-badasses from around the world. They're not king of the hill, but they automatically start higher on the slope than 90% of everyone else, and can be... not Jack of all trades, something better. Queen of all trades? Queen of all trades, and King of a few if they apply themselves (like pretty much anyone else).
The tradeoff of doing this is that now, mortals can actually have agency and matter without having to either Exalt or switch species, provided sufficient effort and luck.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
A bunch of stuff. 'Essence 5' is not actually a very meaningful measure of power; Essence is mostly a power stat that governs how often you can Do Cool Things, but it says remarkably little about what Cool Things you can Do. Mostly it depends on experience and what skills that Exalt is invested in, which necessarily means they'll have areas they aren't invested in, where they can be blindsided by people 'less powerful' than them.
Terrestrial Martial Arts and Thaumaturgy are the main ones.
To be fair in One Piece there are people who are born as goddam freaks of nature who are stronger than you, faster than you and tougher than you from birth....they are called the Fish-men. Even untrained in the bullshit tier that One Piece allows, they are 10x stronger than a normal man on land...and then they get into the water and open a can off ass-kicking. Plus the fact that many of the Devil Fruit empowered people are rendered helpless by the environment that the Fishmen thrive in (the ocean).
Also, aren't the people from the various Sky Islands or the Moon stronger than people on the ocean...and then you get into the point that the East Blue is the 'weakest' of the Blues.
Still, you are correct that Will is the main driving force of One Piece that allows normal people to become superhuman freaks of nature like Rayliegh, Mihawk or Shanks.
That said the Celestial Dragon being Dragonblooded with horribly thin blood kind of appeals to me....though that being said , do they breathe their own air supply because htey are breathing specailly prepared 'essence-heavy' air to try and flame the spark of wind-essence that they can contain into something impressive?
Also, aren't the people from the various Sky Islands or the Moon stronger than people on the ocean...and then you get into the point that the East Blue is the 'weakest' of the Blues.
Still, you are correct that Will is the main driving force of One Piece that allows normal people to become superhuman freaks of nature like Rayliegh, Mihawk or Shanks.
That said the Celestial Dragon being Dragonblooded with horribly thin blood kind of appeals to me....though that being said , do they breathe their own air supply because htey are breathing specailly prepared 'essence-heavy' air to try and flame the spark of wind-essence that they can contain into something impressive?
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
@GardenerBriareus have you considered that it might just not be a good cross if you try to keep everything the same? You've got to make compromises somewhere on the One Piece side if you want it to work with Exalted, and vice versa.
- Location
- my house
Let me rephrase then. What can challenge a Essence 5 exalt in their specialty?
EDIT: @Bel honestly I like the idea of the celestial dragons just being straight dragonblood. After all doffy was pretty strong.
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- Location
- NOVA
There are a lot of potential ways to harm them, but eventually a sufficiently old Exalt will become functionally immune to mortals eventually.
Narratively, there should be holes in everyone's defensive suite because they aren't player characters trying to optimize in paranoia combat and invulnerability usually makes for a boring story.
Maybe your superhumanly tough warrior hasn't picked up an anti surprise charm, leaving her vulnerable to assassins or thieves; meanwhile, the duelist can't be surprised or out fought in melee, but can't ignore poison.
This is all assuming that threat means threat to their life. Social threats of various types matter to a ton of characters.
The big categories which are life threatening and easy to not have protections against are.
Surprise, poison, being ganged up on, needing a weapon, inability to close distance, shaping effects, illusions, and immaterial enemies.
All, save the last, should be able to be done by mortals without too much issue. It may be hard, but it's possible.
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
IIRC, Raksha actually find it easier to ignore mortals than Exalts do.
That's a fair point. However our first introduction to them they were almost comically weak, and the reason they got away with shooting people in the middle of the street, selling slaves or torturing people for kicks was that if you hit one of them then a fucking Admiral would turn up and wreck your shit.
Would you cahracterise that as a somebody who is of the line of Dragons...but hasn't actually exalted...and then the people who do have the bloodline and have Exalted?
- Location
- England
Within the infinite chaos of the Wyld, their float fragments of stability. Parts of creation so fortified during the age of dreams to display the art of the titans that chaos still fails to reclaim.
During the first usurpation against the dreamers, a battle dislodged set of islands in the west, set as poetry from one forgotten titan to another, from creation into the Wyld. The DB contingent of the exalted host in that battle, was lost along with their mortal cohort, and primordial races from both sides, left to drift in unreality.
In desperation, a cease-fire was agreed to attempt to salvage to situation and ensure that at least some of them could survive the disaster. It was only through the primordial essence of the DB contingent that some form of stability was restored, and the islands defences against the Wyld brought online. A Sanctuary was born.
However, the survivors were stranded.
Moreover, their sanctuary sought to change them to forms far different than what they knew.
As generations passed, some races found new homes in their sanctuary. Others were simply lost, unable to survive in their new world. Their Sanctuary sought to preserve a record of all who lived on it, and bore the Fruit of Memory in remembrance of all those lost, and in homage to those that survived. In partaking of these fruit would allow one to relive part of lives of another race. Life bloomed in the Sanctuary
Everything changed in the Void century.
No public record exists of the conflict. The reason it started, the sides people took, what was lost, who was lost. Even the duration and victor of this conflict is unknown. A conflict so devastating, it changed the nature of Sanctuary.
What is know is that at the end of if all, a family of DB saved the world. Through their gifts they secured the stability that had been lost for at least a century, working tirelessly to forge a regime that could ensure the survival of Sanctuary once more.
In the bloodshed, Sanctuary was reborn as the Grand Line under the World Government, and the Fruits of Memory, Devil Fruit for they now only remembered power, and hated the existence of each others to the point that to partake of a second fruit would destroy the users body.
However, so few DB were left of the family at the end that risking one of the few beings capable of holding the world together wasn't an option for the forces left at the dawn of the new age, the newborn terrestrials were denied the chance to be heroes. Now in their holy land lies naught but wasted potential, a force that could unite the world and lead it to a new age left to atrophy, never rising to the heights that elevated them to their status in this new age.
The only spark of terrestrial might left rooming the world lies in the Will of D. The last scattered decedents of the DB that opposed those who forged the world government, blood spread thin across the oceans, and mutated by the essence of this strange world without their brethren there to reinforce their nature. Each of these must find a new way to reforge their understanding of the elements that lay at the foundation of the world and find new ways to express the might of the terrestrial host on this oceanic world.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Under this model, the celestial dragons are the unexalated descendants of the last DB in the setting who used there bureaucracy and organisational skills to build a world from the chaos that ended up being the world government.
Essentially
The celestial dragons are too lazy and pampered to exalt due to issues early in the world goverments formation. And the ones who bare the will of D have gone the way on lunars in the wyld, and have some trouble using DB charms beyond excellencies without getting their shit together.
They still have access to terrestrial charms, but have to find a way to mentally reconcile a connection with the elements to use them. Or just eat a devil fruit and let that do the conceptual heavy lifting (comparing Garps general aspect access from years of introspection, to Ace's instant understanding of the fire aspect after one bad lunch as a small child).
This means exaltation's still matter as any D and the one Celestial Dragon who's really tried to has changed the world, has had an impact that defined an era, as they have all the capabilities of everyone else in the setting, +an exaltation.
E.g. If Luffy decided to become a swordsman during the 2 year time skip, and had the appropriate aspects unlocked, he'd probably be better than Zoro by the time they meet up again.
During the first usurpation against the dreamers, a battle dislodged set of islands in the west, set as poetry from one forgotten titan to another, from creation into the Wyld. The DB contingent of the exalted host in that battle, was lost along with their mortal cohort, and primordial races from both sides, left to drift in unreality.
In desperation, a cease-fire was agreed to attempt to salvage to situation and ensure that at least some of them could survive the disaster. It was only through the primordial essence of the DB contingent that some form of stability was restored, and the islands defences against the Wyld brought online. A Sanctuary was born.
However, the survivors were stranded.
Moreover, their sanctuary sought to change them to forms far different than what they knew.
As generations passed, some races found new homes in their sanctuary. Others were simply lost, unable to survive in their new world. Their Sanctuary sought to preserve a record of all who lived on it, and bore the Fruit of Memory in remembrance of all those lost, and in homage to those that survived. In partaking of these fruit would allow one to relive part of lives of another race. Life bloomed in the Sanctuary
Everything changed in the Void century.
No public record exists of the conflict. The reason it started, the sides people took, what was lost, who was lost. Even the duration and victor of this conflict is unknown. A conflict so devastating, it changed the nature of Sanctuary.
What is know is that at the end of if all, a family of DB saved the world. Through their gifts they secured the stability that had been lost for at least a century, working tirelessly to forge a regime that could ensure the survival of Sanctuary once more.
In the bloodshed, Sanctuary was reborn as the Grand Line under the World Government, and the Fruits of Memory, Devil Fruit for they now only remembered power, and hated the existence of each others to the point that to partake of a second fruit would destroy the users body.
However, so few DB were left of the family at the end that risking one of the few beings capable of holding the world together wasn't an option for the forces left at the dawn of the new age, the newborn terrestrials were denied the chance to be heroes. Now in their holy land lies naught but wasted potential, a force that could unite the world and lead it to a new age left to atrophy, never rising to the heights that elevated them to their status in this new age.
The only spark of terrestrial might left rooming the world lies in the Will of D. The last scattered decedents of the DB that opposed those who forged the world government, blood spread thin across the oceans, and mutated by the essence of this strange world without their brethren there to reinforce their nature. Each of these must find a new way to reforge their understanding of the elements that lay at the foundation of the world and find new ways to express the might of the terrestrial host on this oceanic world.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Under this model, the celestial dragons are the unexalated descendants of the last DB in the setting who used there bureaucracy and organisational skills to build a world from the chaos that ended up being the world government.
Essentially
- The only exalts in the setting are the DB in the celestial dragons, and the DB bearers of the Will of D.
- Every mortal is an X-Blooded, with the ability to become another class of being if they push themselves hard enough.
- Everyone else is Mortal-Blooded, with the ability to become mortal if they keep breeding with mortals
- Primordial races cover the general species of the setting.
- Devil fruit grant the ability to learn partial charmsets, an expand on them slightly to some degree, but still kill you dead if you try to eat 2.
- High end skills are terrestrial to celestial martial arts.
The celestial dragons are too lazy and pampered to exalt due to issues early in the world goverments formation. And the ones who bare the will of D have gone the way on lunars in the wyld, and have some trouble using DB charms beyond excellencies without getting their shit together.
They still have access to terrestrial charms, but have to find a way to mentally reconcile a connection with the elements to use them. Or just eat a devil fruit and let that do the conceptual heavy lifting (comparing Garps general aspect access from years of introspection, to Ace's instant understanding of the fire aspect after one bad lunch as a small child).
This means exaltation's still matter as any D and the one Celestial Dragon who's really tried to has changed the world, has had an impact that defined an era, as they have all the capabilities of everyone else in the setting, +an exaltation.
E.g. If Luffy decided to become a swordsman during the 2 year time skip, and had the appropriate aspects unlocked, he'd probably be better than Zoro by the time they meet up again.
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greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
Terrifying Ardent Witches
Strength Charms
Might is Right!
Strength-Is All
Cost: 4m; Mins: Strength 3, Essence 2; Type: Supplemental (I think)
Keywords: Combo-OK,
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Any Strength Excellency
Might equals right in the minds of the Forsaken.
This charm enhances a social attack, allowing the Witch to uses their strength in place of their appearance, for what is glimmer of a one's hair compared to the might of the Moon-Witches?
Fear The Silver-Reaper
Strength-Is All
Cost: 6m, 1wp; Mins: Strength 4, Essence 3; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, emotion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Strength is All
On nights of the full moon, Dynast's tell their children of the utter terror of facing an Anathema, of how they can strike such fear into the hearts of men that they will do anything. They don't know how true those tales are. This charm enhances a Presence based social attack that uses intimidation, it strikes terror into the heart of the victium, making influence an unnatural emotion effect that requires (difference in Strength up to a maximum of 5) to resist. By spending an extra 6m the charm can be used to enhance Performance based attacks, allowing the Lunar to terrorize social group up to (strength) magnitude in size.
Dunno about these, what do you guys think could be done better?
Strength Charms
Might is Right!
Strength-Is All
Cost: 4m; Mins: Strength 3, Essence 2; Type: Supplemental (I think)
Keywords: Combo-OK,
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Any Strength Excellency
Might equals right in the minds of the Forsaken.
This charm enhances a social attack, allowing the Witch to uses their strength in place of their appearance, for what is glimmer of a one's hair compared to the might of the Moon-Witches?
Fear The Silver-Reaper
Strength-Is All
Cost: 6m, 1wp; Mins: Strength 4, Essence 3; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, emotion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Strength is All
On nights of the full moon, Dynast's tell their children of the utter terror of facing an Anathema, of how they can strike such fear into the hearts of men that they will do anything. They don't know how true those tales are. This charm enhances a Presence based social attack that uses intimidation, it strikes terror into the heart of the victium, making influence an unnatural emotion effect that requires (difference in Strength up to a maximum of 5) to resist. By spending an extra 6m the charm can be used to enhance Performance based attacks, allowing the Lunar to terrorize social group up to (strength) magnitude in size.
Dunno about these, what do you guys think could be done better?
- Location
- Spain
Attrition.
Although honestly, most mortal armies would break before the Exalt. At E5 most exalts will have some kind of way to fuck people in masse. And human morale breaks quite easily when in the presence of a seamingly invencible divine foe. It's like trying to convince your troops to fight against a hurricane.
I guess that poison could work, if the Exalt in question isn't big in resistance and you can get ahold of a potent enough poison and trick their into ingest it. Although there are quite some hurdles to pass (Hyper-perception could detect the poison, tricking E5 exalts aren't easy, and you probably want a quick poison or the Exalt may find some kind of way to counteract it. Since at that point they probably have significant resources and allies).
Remember, a E5 exalt is a supernatural being of the same stature as the Unconquered Sun.
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Ok, this is much better written than the earlier discussions. I actually like this one.
I've had some thoughts about running a game based on or taking from One piece with my exalted group.
To preface my (and my fellow GM's) ideas, we run 3rd edition, and we're largely satisfied with what the system allows. I'm not interested in expanding what mortals or exalted can do.
Rather, I want to use setting elements of One Piece to build a game of Exalted set in the West. Lots of swashbuckling, island-exploring, treasure-hunting fun.
I would aim to make Devil Fruits a major element of the game, perhaps design some martial arts based on those in One Piece, and set the game near-to the Wyld, in an Empire taking a lot from the World Government's design.
Characters who are needed to maintain the setting can be translated.
For Example, I would run Rodger as a now-deceased Solar who shook the region before he was brought low by his failing body, and captured.
Devil Fruits, a vital element, work as-written. Simply rare and valuable means of becoming powerful. They compete with Exaltation in whatever areas their powers allow them, but lack the versatility or fringe benefits of Exaltation. Further, no mortal with a fruit will match a motivated Exalt with that same fruit. (Exceptions exist, of course)
The other, simpler idea is to just take Exalted's systems and use it to run One Piece. I like the idea, but honestly you'd probably be better off with a rules-light system.
I don't think trying to reconcile the demonstrated feats of One Piece characters with the established capabilities of Creation mortals is very productive. You lose too much of what makes One Piece special by bringing it down to Exalted's gritty level, and you ruin core themes of Exalted if the Exalted themselves aren't very special. Harp doesn't need to smash mountains, he just has to be strong and heroic.
To preface my (and my fellow GM's) ideas, we run 3rd edition, and we're largely satisfied with what the system allows. I'm not interested in expanding what mortals or exalted can do.
Rather, I want to use setting elements of One Piece to build a game of Exalted set in the West. Lots of swashbuckling, island-exploring, treasure-hunting fun.
I would aim to make Devil Fruits a major element of the game, perhaps design some martial arts based on those in One Piece, and set the game near-to the Wyld, in an Empire taking a lot from the World Government's design.
Characters who are needed to maintain the setting can be translated.
For Example, I would run Rodger as a now-deceased Solar who shook the region before he was brought low by his failing body, and captured.
Devil Fruits, a vital element, work as-written. Simply rare and valuable means of becoming powerful. They compete with Exaltation in whatever areas their powers allow them, but lack the versatility or fringe benefits of Exaltation. Further, no mortal with a fruit will match a motivated Exalt with that same fruit. (Exceptions exist, of course)
The other, simpler idea is to just take Exalted's systems and use it to run One Piece. I like the idea, but honestly you'd probably be better off with a rules-light system.
I don't think trying to reconcile the demonstrated feats of One Piece characters with the established capabilities of Creation mortals is very productive. You lose too much of what makes One Piece special by bringing it down to Exalted's gritty level, and you ruin core themes of Exalted if the Exalted themselves aren't very special. Harp doesn't need to smash mountains, he just has to be strong and heroic.
- Location
- my house
There seems to have been a bit of confusion. I wasn't asking how a mortal could challenge an Exalt, I was asking what can challenge them period.
For instance I believe that a 3rd demon or powerful God should be about as good within their specialties as an Essence 5 Exalt but I never actually got to play the game so I'm not sure.
I was t hen asking how powerful a mortral can get at all. I'm aware that eventually Exalted basically become immune to a mortal but how high can mortals go? How strong is a mortal in a warstrider when compared against an exalt? I know there are some ways they can become demons, but I don't remember if they can become gods. That sort of thing
For that matter how do gods/demons/elementals increase their power and what are the limits on this? My current thoughts are that in a One Piece world their would be a lot more people who, by hook or by crook have stopped being mortal.
@Bel I 100% agree that the first dragons we see aren't exalted. But Doffy makes a very good point for their inherent superiority and him being a Dragonblooded works very well thematically. I think that the reveal of Doffy is prepping us for stronger Celestial Dragons. So I think it works well thematically to have them be high breeding Exalts who are so cut off from the world that to even the ones who don't exalt still think themselves gods works better.
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