Ok.... where is it that they were talking about how you could use manses/ demenses to give area of effect to an area?

And also, for terrestrial workings, just what is the limit? Can you, say, create a pool 4 acres in area, that enables everyone that took a dip within it to heal like an exalt?
Oadenol's Codex goes into detail for the powers and costs of manses and such.

That sounds more like a Celestial level effect. You pool would be at least Solar 2 ambition, as a pool that size could easily house tens of thousands. Keep in mind the Exalts can heal from anything short of outright amputation, and do not scar unless the injury was sufficiently badass. They can not die from mundane illness.

The most I can see Terrestrial ambition 3 working do is enchant a spring that grants a boost to resist disease and poison.

I remember this one homebrew terrestrial spell that basically turned the target into a tree. While a tree, the target healed like an Exalt, and you could graft on a branch to heal an amputation. This sort of healing caused some cosmetic plant-based mutations. The point that I'm making is that magical healing shouldn't be fast or cheap. Unless you want cancer. Or some really freaky mutations. In which case the Yozis' got the hook up (without the cancer, usually)! Trust me, they're all to willing the share, especially Metagaos.
 
Woah, wait. How large is a single village in creation?
50-300 people, some larger. In area size? Differs greatly based on the economic model the village is working on.

Besides, this is less a matter of scale and more power level of the effect. Terrestrial Ambition 3 makes a river always clean. A pool that can heal an army from all but the worst crippling injuries and shake off minor illnesses is a strategic asset that would justify entire wars for control of it.

A Working needs to be something a sorcerer of that Circle is able to do. A Terrestrial Circle Sorcerer can summon a Bottle Bug to heal a person at a time. This can heal thousands at a time.
 
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So this is the preliminary bibliography I'll be using for the first part of my story. So what do you think? Should I add anything? Are so books that will be redundant and thus should not bother reading?
bibliography:
Exalted 2nd Core Rule Book*
Exalted 2nd Storytellers Companion*
The Manual of Exalted Power: Dragon-Blooded
The Scavenger Lands: The Compass Of Terrestrial Directions, Vol. 1**
The Blessed Isle: The Compass Of Celestial Directions, Vol 1
Exalted: Scroll of the Monk**
Exalted: Scroll of Heroes
Exalted: Scroll of Exalts
The Books of Sorcery, Vol. I - Wonders of the Lost Age
The Books of Sorcery, Vol. 2 -The White Treatise and The Black Treatise
The Books of Sorcery, Vol. 3 - Oadenol's Codex
Exalted: Cult of the Illuminated (Namely the parts about the Wyld Hunt)

(*=have read **=am reading)
 
So this is the preliminary bibliography I'll be using for the first part of my story. So what do you think? Should I add anything? Are so books that will be redundant and thus should not bother reading?
bibliography:
Exalted 2nd Core Rule Book*
Exalted 2nd Storytellers Companion*
The Manual of Exalted Power: Dragon-Blooded
The Scavenger Lands: The Compass Of Terrestrial Directions, Vol. 1**
The Blessed Isle: The Compass Of Celestial Directions, Vol 1
Exalted: Scroll of the Monk**
Exalted: Scroll of Heroes
Exalted: Scroll of Exalts
The Books of Sorcery, Vol. I - Wonders of the Lost Age
The Books of Sorcery, Vol. 2 -The White Treatise and The Black Treatise
The Books of Sorcery, Vol. 3 - Oadenol's Codex
Exalted: Cult of the Illuminated (Namely the parts about the Wyld Hunt)

(*=have read **=am reading)

My advice to you is actually to focus down, as far as you possibly can, on as few elements as needed to tell your story. Keep it simple- Exalted as a game suffers often from trying to do too much, all at once. Isolate what your core themes and premises are, and pick what elements synergize with those.
 
Secondly, it helps emphasis that the Primordials are weird and powerful. Weird for the obvious reason: 5 days no matter what is strange. Powerful, because this one Yozi, even in defeat, was able to mandate something that effects everyone who enters it.

You know, my take in the five days rule is that, during the primordial war, the souls of Cecelyne hid in the end of the endless desert, safe in the certainty that nobody could reach them there.

And then some asshole lunar crossed the desert in five days anyways, and brought them to heel. And since then anybody who tries can cross Cecelyne in five days, no matter what.
 
I made this charm because the original was an MDV booster that didn't have an upper cap. To be honest, MDV matters little to a PC because they could just spend the willpower to ignore other people anyway. To make matters worse, it still costed a willpower to activate, and it doesn't have any effects until you spend a 2nd willpower to ignore someone's arguement! 2wp for 2 MDV is a terrible trade!

Uh... no. No, it is not.

Untouchable Reflection Infinitude is good because it's effectively a social attack flurry-breaker. It stops pestering, because once it gets going your MDV becomes such that you don't need excellencies or anything to just bounce any attempts to persuade you of anything. Each time URI triggers, your MDV raises by 2 and that means the number of dice they need to get through your UMI next time increases by 4. It prevents the "pester pester" tactic where you casually hit someone with as much social influence as you can on a wide range of topics, before homing in on what you want to actually talk about once they're low on WP. URI makes that not work, because when you home in on what you actually want their MDV is at +10 or something and you don't have enough dice to get through even with max excellency spend.
 
What about, say, a self reproducing vine, whos sap acts as a natural antibiotic? Gives bonuses to resist diseases and infection.
 
If we are doing Exalted 3E for this, then the core book is the way to go. A Ambition 3 Terrestrial Working explicitly says it can imbue a minor supernatural trait to enhance an existing lifeforms best feature, while a Ambition 2 working (terrestial circle) can cross a number of lifeforms together to get their best feature. A Ambition 2 Celestial Working meanwhile can spread a mutation throughout an entire minor ecosystem.

Honeslty it comes down to what you want this plant to do and how supernatural you want it. Has the sorcerer crossbred the existing medical plants in the area? Has he made a new plant as the vessal of his magic? Does he want this plant to spread?
 
If you want to improve the health of Creation, you're far better off spending your time ensuring that people in the area you rule have access to supplies of clean water and sufficient fuel to boil it if they can't guarantee that the water's clean. Once you've done that, look towards getting some kind of sanitation set up in your cities, because cities in Creation are much less healthy than places with lower population density and likely have negative population growth when you subtract immigration.

Also, if you're in the warmer areas, mosquito nets. For fuck's sake, mosquito nets.

All of these things will do more good for your people than fancy sorcerous workings, and additionally will be cheaper, easier to implement, and be a bottom-up solution that doesn't require your personal micromanagement to implement.
 
If you want to improve the health of Creation, you're far better off spending your time ensuring that people in the area you rule have access to supplies of clean water and sufficient fuel to boil it if they can't guarantee that the water's clean. Once you've done that, look towards getting some kind of sanitation set up in your cities, because cities in Creation are much less healthy than places with lower population density and likely have negative population growth when you subtract immigration.

Also, if you're in the warmer areas, mosquito nets. For fuck's sake, mosquito nets.
All of these things will do more good for your people than fancy sorcerous workings, and additionally will be cheaper, easier to implement, and be a bottom-up solution that doesn't require your personal micromanagement to implement.
All this.

I swear, you take easy availability of the amenities in civilization for granted until you see people digging shallow holes in the ground and scooping said groundwater to drink or cook food. Or taking a dump in the bush a couple hundred yards away from a kitchen.
Basic public health measures save more lives than drugs.

Getting your army's chirurgeons to wash their hands in between treating wounded soldiers will save more lives than any antibiotic vine you can invent.
Same for exercising rigorous hygiene while delivering babies.

Mosquito nets are not feasible for wide distribution in a pre-industrial civilization, so you're going to be looking at stuff like eliminating stagnant water pools or covering water sources. Maybe local mosquito repellent remedies like lemon and orange peels either applied to the skin or burned at the campfire.
 
A Terrestrial Working of Ambition 3 is able to make a river always run clean. Outright having it grant a magical boost to everyone who enters it is much higher than that.
Define "a river", "always", and "clean" please.

Do you mean a stream or something like the Nile, a length of it or the whole thing?
Does this last until you die, until the end of the Age, or just blatantly forever?
Does it protect against supernatural sources of befoulment and filth, poisons, what about parasites?
What about, say, a self reproducing vine, whos sap acts as a natural antibiotic? Gives bonuses to resist diseases and infection.
That should be easily achievable.
It's just crossbreeding/grafting a fast-growing vine with a plant that has antibiotic properties.
There might even be something like that already in Creation, probably in the East.
 
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Does this last until you die, until the end of the Age, or just blatantly forever?
At least this part is indefinite until you countermagic it- if it was tied to your existence you would need to commit motes, not shape environmental motes like Sorcery does.

Also, since the First Age/Shogunate Sorcery in ruins is still standing, the Trade Pattern and Salinian Working exist (3e doesn't mention it, but 2e had it extant even in the Age of Sorrows), we have precedent that Sorcery based reality editing is meant to be indefinite till other Essence users fuck with it.

The other two are GM fiat, tho if the Working is targeted at mundane dirt/corpses dumped in it it should "only" minorly affect supernatural stuff imo.
 
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That should be easily achievable.
It's just crossbreeding/grafting a fast-growing vine with a plant that has antibiotic properties.
There might even be something like that already in Creation, probably in the East.

I have to say, i am growing tired of the "workings can do anything" thing. It just trivializes so many other aspects of the game.

Not long ago i saw a thread in Onyx path about healing crippling damage with a working, and i couldn't but thing, why can terrestrial sorcery do something that requires half a dozen Solar medicine charms to do?
 
I have to say, i am growing tired of the "workings can do anything" thing. It just trivializes so many other aspects of the game.

Not long ago i saw a thread in Onyx path about healing crippling damage with a working, and i couldn't but thing, why can terrestrial sorcery do something that requires half a dozen Solar medicine charms to do?
If I had to take a guess, the mitigating factors are that workings require time and effort sunk into them, and on top of that they're something that's out there in the world, not just something you naturally know how to do. A guy with Medicine charms will heal the guy right then and there even in an emergency, even if you're really far away from your healing pool or whatever. And at that, only if you had the foresight to make a healing pool in the first place.

And there can be complications; like with the example with the pool, what happens if some ambitious king decides it's so good that they should war over it? What happens if the fast-growing plant from which you can make antibiotics gets its specimens stolen by a Guild prince who wants to have it all for himself, so he can sell the finished product at a tremendous price and make himself stinking rich?
 
I have to say, i am growing tired of the "workings can do anything" thing. It just trivializes so many other aspects of the game.

Not long ago i saw a thread in Onyx path about healing crippling damage with a working, and i couldn't but thing, why can terrestrial sorcery do something that requires half a dozen Solar medicine charms to do?
It's worth remembering that those half-dozen Solar medicine charms will generally get it done faster, with less resource investment, and can be used repeatedly, while the sorcerous working requires knowledge of sorcery (duh) as well as a significant investment of time and resources in order to "heal" a single effect.
 
It's probably worth specifying which edition you're talking about when you mention sorcery (or indeed, many things common to 2e and 3e). The mechanics, the setting assumptions, the gameplay assumptions - all of those are going to differ on some key points that can make the answers to your questions substantially different between editions.
 
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Workings don't just cost time, effort, and resources; they cost xp.

Maybe not "skin-colour-based racism" personally, but yeah that makes sense and is insightful.

Kind of you to say so.

Anyway, yeah, you've got to pick and choose. My original list didn't have racism in it, but then I realized it was a bit dishonest to assume an Earthling in Creation would only carry the praiseworthy parts of our culture with them.
 
I have to say, i am growing tired of the "workings can do anything" thing. It just trivializes so many other aspects of the game.

Not long ago i saw a thread in Onyx path about healing crippling damage with a working, and i couldn't but thing, why can terrestrial sorcery do something that requires half a dozen Solar medicine charms to do?

I am pretty sympathetic to the frustration with "just use a Working" as the catch-all answer to things, but I think the answers above (especially the fact that they take both time and XP) are really solid. With a Charm you've got the ability to do stuff cheaply and reliably and repeatably; with the XP cost especially, you can imagine that a Working is somewhat like developing an extremely narrow Charm that works just for this specific task you want to do.

I do think that Workings should be a little more explicit about requiring screentime investment in addition to just a time / resources cost. You shouldn't generally get to say "yeah so I just do a working during downtime, let me roll", there should be a reasonable amount of description of exactly how you are accomplishing your task.
 
I have to say, i am growing tired of the "workings can do anything" thing. It just trivializes so many other aspects of the game.
I'm not even talking about Sorcery here, this is bog-standard Craft:Genesis and it might not even require that.
Although Charms, Thaumaturgy, or Sorcery would make doing it much easier and lower amount of time and resources you'd need to invest.
 
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but then I realized it was a bit dishonest to assume an Earthling in Creation would only carry the praiseworthy parts of our culture with them.
Yeah. I mean, personally, I wouldn't have racism, but thinking about myself, I realised I'd have the negative outlook "uneducated adults are either lazy or stupid". It's not true, not even in our culture, because education isn't actually as universally available as we like to think it is, but that's a major negative intimacy I'd be carrying into Creation if I ended up there.
 
Whew. I had a hell of a morning- too hot, not enough sleep, woke up late. @Aleph was top-tier ST in running even this short session for me.

Session 12 Log

Alas, no adorable tiger-girls today. Just ineffectual flailing.

We pick up where we left off last session, and this is actually very much how most of the games I ran or played in worked- single scenes got so long, they took several weeks to resolve, for one reason or another. Combat is a good example because of how granular and paced it is. For good or ill, we did not reach combat today.

So, I immediately start assessing how much these slaves are worth, and learn a few interesting things. We also have a moment of discussion regarding Frugal Merchant Method, which guarantees 3 automatic successes on haggling rolls if the seller is dishonest, 1 success if honest. Note that 2e does not have haggling mechanics, so we generally assume it applies to whatever the most relevant 'transaction' roll is, be it cha+pres, int+bur or whatnot. 1e DOES have a haggling mechanic though.

Here, I try to sell these slavers on The Better Way (tm). The Solar Way, the Long Term Investment way... but as I do this, Aleph keeps revealing more information, and Inks then arrives at an interesting conclusion...

Armed with that knowledge, it lets me make more of an informed decision, but here I am constrained a great deal by my lack of Charms and other options. I generally don't support 'charm for every problem' design, but even with inherent excellency houserule, I lack a lot of horsepower, and Inks was Presence 2 for this whole session.

I also want you to realize that she's Charisma 2, Presence 2, and has been successfully making deals throughout the whole game. The main reason for this is that most of her opponents are mortals, and we are using the Appearance modifier rules.

You'll note that I did not use Sexy Stunner Style against the slavers, as that... I could have, most assuredly, but I would not have enjoyed describing Inks vamping for these people. It would not have been fun or in-character for Inks.

So, Inks realizes that the slavers want Inks to quite litereally buy them out of Gem for the time it takes her to piss someone off and die- and then they'll go right back to what they're doing before. El Galabi is their usecase, and to be honest, it's a reasonable plan. Not one Inks likes, but she can respect it.

Now, I can safely say I was not as mentally prepared for this session as I wanted to be. I was willing to, yesterday, get into a fight about this, but since I did not arrive in time and had computer issues, i was not in the right headspace for it.

Because of that, I flailed a little and asked for help. After a bit of discussion, Aleph took an opportunity to move things along, maybe not the most elegant way (I personally think it was fine), but we both needed to kick things into gear. The slaver and cohorts essentially demanded an agreement of non-interference, represented by an Ally 1 background with these Sun Market Slavers. Inks is not happy with this arrangement, but she got an Artifact out of the deal...

Alas, Maji was not pleased. Maji expected fights. Maji is the shoulder demon.

And to be fair, I'm totally going to break slavery as an instutition in Gem. Just Smartly.

Having taken care of that (for now), we go back to what started this little excursion, getting Black Jade for the Baths! This is much more perfunctory- You'll note though that I needed to start caste mark flaring to regen motes, as I have about 19m personal (and no peripheral under the hack), so I was regenerating essentially 2m every time I 'talked'. (Gentleperson's agreement).

Anyway, here Inks happily invoked Sexy Stunner Style, which helped offset a lot of her dice issues, and saved up motes to use FMM one more time. She then negotiated the black jade horns down, and left with a somewhat successful trip. Also note to myself and Aleph, Inks'll be repairing those tablets she bought and attempting to translate them at some point.

Back at her townhouse. we take a moment to assess the gemstone. Now Aleph tends not to tell me Difficulties, and I generally have always run Exalted under the idea of transparent difficulty until told otherwise- 2e has a very specific rule that lets you assess difficulty before you try, and my impression of the system was 'transparent, unless not'. As opposed to 'opaque, until made clear.'

And, like with many challenges, Aleph did not expect me to roll so well.

So we reveal, in a snazzy form factor that suits Inks's aesthetics, a regional variant of one of my favorite artifacts ever. And, Aleph did a fantastic job of elaborating how it would have looked at felt to the user for the first time. The other interesting note is that it is a regional variant, so it changes out the 'canonical' power in favor of something more appropriate to Gem.

This willingness to adjust things for impact and fluff is an important skill to develop as a player and ST, and part of the experience is knowing how far you can push things. Aleph did a good job here.

And so that concludes Session 12. We expect to resolve the 'baths' project over downtime before picking up again in Session 13.
 
If you want to improve the health of Creation, you're far better off spending your time ensuring that people in the area you rule have access to supplies of clean water and sufficient fuel to boil it if they can't guarantee that the water's clean. Once you've done that, look towards getting some kind of sanitation set up in your cities, because cities in Creation are much less healthy than places with lower population density and likely have negative population growth when you subtract immigration.

Also, if you're in the warmer areas, mosquito nets. For fuck's sake, mosquito nets.

All of these things will do more good for your people than fancy sorcerous workings, and additionally will be cheaper, easier to implement, and be a bottom-up solution that doesn't require your personal micromanagement to implement.
Of course i know that. Thing is, when you have, say, an infection, washing hands won't help. But antibiotics will.

Though are there any actual mechanics for washing hands and the effect?
 
I have to say, i am growing tired of the "workings can do anything" thing. It just trivializes so many other aspects of the game.

Not long ago i saw a thread in Onyx path about healing crippling damage with a working, and i couldn't but thing, why can terrestrial sorcery do something that requires half a dozen Solar medicine charms to do?
It can't, healing the Crippling wound with a Working would probably be Celestial 1 or 2, at least by my reading.

Of course i know that. Thing is, when you have, say, an infection, washing hands won't help. But antibiotics will.

Though are there any actual mechanics for washing hands and the effect?
Roll dexterity+medicine at difficulty 2. Add the successes as bonus charm dice against your next roll to resist disease but not poison, unless you were washing a poison off of your hands, in which case half that applies to the poison.

This would be my example of why mechanics for handwashing is a bad idea.
 
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