Nobody wanted paranoia combat. Some people just found it a preferable alternative to table contracts of the form, "Your characters will never actually be in any real danger."
(And some people didn't, and that was okay, too.)
General Exalted Thread
(And some people didn't, and that was okay, too.)
Touch of Sepia
Artisan of the Vital Tincture
- Location
- Connecticut
Was speaking to base pools before charms - you'd know that if you read it.
I hope your DB is very old - or you are doing the same thing as me. Not playing the game by the book. That's the same thing as Solars fighting 2nd and 3rd circle demons one on one if you are not very well equip (Outcaste so) and experienced in your powers (old). Beyond that, an outcaste would have very low breeding, so inherently weak essence.
but I don't think your dichotomy is valid or descriptive of any attitude towards the game you will find here; violence is a tool to achieve your problems, but 2e combat is so shitty and boring that no one here wants to make it an actual goal.
I actually have seen a lot of the focus on combat - here. Everywhere. My games have combat probably once every ~30 sessions.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Pagoda of Masks
Well with an excellency it skews things even worse. Give a solar "Greatest Poet in The Land" with an excellency, Dex 3, Melee 2 and a +2 Accuracy weapon? They have a dice pool of 12 and that's almost as good as a mortal master of the blade is, at a comparable actual skill level to a totally average mortal soldier.
*shrugs* I have no real desire to get into the ongoing debate involving you, sorry.
- Location
- Spain
So?
When you Exalt, you enter Anime land. and in anime, the plucky hero is always better than normal people; Even when the normal people look big and scary and it looks physically impossible to win.
Melee 2 is a profesional soldier level anyway, no wonder that you equal mortal masters with excellency use.
Touch of Sepia
Artisan of the Vital Tincture
- Location
- Connecticut
Mostly agree, but a +5-6 accuracy weapon is pretty unbalanced and having it without a very good story is cheesing for power. Where did you find it - I'd have no issue with that on a high breeding Realm DB. They have the equipment and the backing.
Much of the lore and writing for the game is not anime. That is more of what the 2nd edition forums and echo chamber created. The game was sold as an ancient heroes, sand and sandals, storyteller game. Not anime, that came later, when the writers had to give the vocal minority what they wanted. Look at the Autothonia comics, Ten Stripes, Swims with Shadows or most any comic in the books really. It was not anime - paranoia combat players pushed it that way.
Certainly, and I totally agree, the 3E opening comic reads as that to the hilt. Morke and Holden were anime-heads and street fighter aficionados, we will see if the new devs break from 1E - I expect they must due to market pressures.
Last edited:
To rephrase a thing I talk about when dealing with Mage: the Ascension, Exaltation breeds and demands excellence. Odysseus's shtick was always "the clever trickster-genius" and yet he was casually mentioned to wield a bow with superhuman prowess. Exalts are superhuman demigods, expecting that even in places they aren't particularly specialized in, they will be near the peak of mortal prowess isn't unusual or game-breaking.
I think @Jon Chung has things to say about that. Which is to say, sure, you can have not Dex 5, you can have not Melee 5, you can buy Dex 2 and no combat skills, but you run the risk then that someone will blow some willpower to ignore your social niceties and stab you, repeatedly, until you are dead, because Exalted is very specifically the kind of game where that is a thing that happens, because there are plenty of assassins out to get you.
- Location
- Ottawa
No, they're really not. They're just a legendary master, which requires no specialization at all in this game.
And even if they were really specialized, it wouldn't be system abuse.
- Location
- Wörms, the half continent
Most Lunars clearly don't have enough stamina charms, then. This is a problem with most everything: Stamina charms will save your life. Several times, and thrice on Thursdays.False dichotomy; my Dragon-Blooded Outcaste (that I've shared a bit about in this thread) can take most Lunars one on-one and broke the arm of the last assassin who came for her and threw him through a wall, but most of the game has been about Chiming Minaret running away from her problems, doing political manipulation and spiraling down the slippery slope. This doesn't make my experience universal, but I don't think your dichotomy is valid or descriptive of any attitude towards the game you will find here; violence is a tool to achieve your problems, but 2e combat is so shitty and boring that no one here wants to make it an actual goal.
Also, manus-senpai, what did you think of my homebrew?
False dichotomy; my Dragon-Blooded Outcaste (that I've shared a bit about in this thread) can take most Lunars one on-one and broke the arm of the last assassin who came for her and threw him through a wall, but most of the game has been about Chiming Minaret running away from her problems, doing political manipulation and spiraling down the slippery slope. This doesn't make my experience universal, but I don't think your dichotomy is valid or descriptive of any attitude towards the game you will find here; violence is a tool to achieve your problems, but 2e combat is so shitty and boring that no one here wants to make it an actual goal.
Yes but @EarthScorpion already knows that the way of Jamelia is to avoid violent conflict, until you can't, and then solve it by blowing it up with a car bomb or four. Or when they least expect it, just blowing them up with a car bomb.
Really it's all about the car bombs.
And maybe the Dreadnought-class broadswords which you haven't written up.
grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
5+5+3 isn't "Creation's Greatest Whatever".
It's "Creation's Greatest Mundane Whatever".
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
I can create stories by mostly eliminating personal violence as a threat to my character. See also: One Punch Man.
If I eliminate violence as a threat and have minimal non-violent skills, guess what I need to do to face any obstacle! (Hint: the answer is "grow".)
Yeah, sure, but!
In these two sentences, you insulted most of the people here by trying to claim a connection between enjoying Yozi being inspired by fallen creators from myths and intelligence (though you wrote it differently). You also misunderstood (and thus misrepresented) the objections to your idea of the Yozi as wholly alien by claiming people are saying the Yozi should walk around as humans.
Literally nobody said that.
I believe you mentioned this previously:
(Awkward.)
But maxing out your area of focus isn't abusing the system. There's no trickery in maxing a stat and taking 3 dice of specialties.
I wasn't saying "this is the minimum to be competent", I was saying "this is what the system is intended to allow".
No, they wouldn't.
Post title: How big is a "big" dice pool in Exalted?
(Notice how this doesn't say "without charms")
(This is the entirety of your initial response. Notice, again, no mention of not using charms.)Touch_of_Sepia said:
I bolded the part where you apparently forgot that Attribute + Ability + Specialty goes up to 13 for non-combat rolls, too, and where you actually bring up Excellencies as a factor.Touch_of_Sepia said:
- Location
- Spain
Correct. But Exalts are anime; They are anime characters in a realist world. The glory of the Hero contrasted with the mud of the normal world.
And it was like that since the begining of the line. Just look at Grabowski quotes.
Last edited:
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm working on it! It's gonna be real good, but nobody's ever going to be able to use it because I don't know how many Strength Charms you'd have to stack to lift something the size of an aircraft carrier.
To use an Exalted Modern analogy, mortals are playing Black Hawk Down. As an Exalt you're playing a tactical shooter. Alchemicals are playing Crysis, Dragonbloods are playing Ghost Recon (with the teamwork mechanics and all), Sidereals are playing Metal Gear Solid, and Solars? Well they're just playing Call of Duty.
Touch of Sepia
Artisan of the Vital Tincture
- Location
- Connecticut
Yes, I mentioned specialties:
" If you're spending 10 motes per attack - that's not a realistic presentation of your skill. You can launch 3 of those before your dry. Infinite ability mastery is equally cheese and banned in every game I've played and run."
Christ on a cracker - you are one obtuse manipulative son of a gun.
@ other people:
John Carter would be pulp fiction, not anime - the same thing as Conan. Which. I've. Been. Saying. All. Thread.
Last edited:
- Location
- Wörms, the half continent
What are lunar's playing, then?
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm going to remind everyone to not use personal attacks or deliberately insult people; I don't have moderatorial authority in this statement, but I bluntly don't think that matters - it's a breach of rule 3 and shouldn't be done.
I hope we can all agree with this.
I hope we can all agree with this.
- Location
- The Pagoda of Masks
Look. Samurai Jack can do poetry. He can Jump Good. He is a ninja who knows the secret ways of hiding within the Light. He can do a lot of things, but the core of his character is a wandering master swordsman. He deserves Dex 5, Melee 5, Spec 3. That is his THING.
Endlessly Velvet Eyes, greatest Sanxian player of the East, should not (especially out of chargen) also have to shoulder the burden of being equal in combat skill to S01E01 Samurai Jack, Wandering Master Swordsman. The fact that the system meta encourages everyone to max out dexterity and a combat skill out of the gate is a symptom of their being an arms race that's spiraled out of control with the system.
And frankly? If, in setting, everyone in the circle is supposed to be a preeminent combatant out of the gate? What even is the point of the Dawn Caste?
Endlessly Velvet Eyes, greatest Sanxian player of the East, should not (especially out of chargen) also have to shoulder the burden of being equal in combat skill to S01E01 Samurai Jack, Wandering Master Swordsman. The fact that the system meta encourages everyone to max out dexterity and a combat skill out of the gate is a symptom of their being an arms race that's spiraled out of control with the system.
And frankly? If, in setting, everyone in the circle is supposed to be a preeminent combatant out of the gate? What even is the point of the Dawn Caste?
Strangely enough, this actually remarkably similar to the Tao of Keris. Violence is to be avoided, save when it is utterly overwhelming and unexpected.
Also, the fairest fight is one where they're asleep, you already poisoned them, and you do it under a Kimbery Charm which means onlookers assume you had a good justifiable reason for everything you do.
(For a character who is probably in the top ten most lethal combatants in Creation, Keris is a Valour 2 coward who hates fair fights and runs away from Dragonblooded brotherhoods rather than fight them)
Last edited:
So in every game you've played and run, an Exalt is at threat from five guys with sledgehammers? And one must worry about the ultimate foe, the combat-oriented fae noble, who can carve through entire Circles of Solars like butter. One wonders how any non-Dragonblood non-Sidereal non-Alchemical Exalt survives to tell a 'story' given that.
You call it 'cheese,' everyone else understands that these abilities were put there for a reason.
E: Let's not forget Termination Without Remorse, the Soulsteel-caste Alchemical who bought passive Str/Dex/Sta 8 and a bunch of other passive combat enhancers and now also carves through Solars like butter. I hear that entire circles of Solars have their past lives solely dedicated to screaming "It can't be reasoned with! It can't be bargained with! It can't be stopped!"
Or maybe Smith Of Encroaching Inevitability. That one too. "I've seen the Smith punch through orichalcum plate. Solars have swung their finest reaper daiklaives at it and hit nothing but air."
Last edited:
The Dawn caste get 25% more combat charms for their XP expenditure than other castes as well as an anima effect which provides a direct, significant combat boost. And charms, not mortal dice pools, are how you decide combat capability in Exalted, an exception-based game. In Exalted, Achilles and Odysseus are both at the peak of mortal skill in combat, but Achilles invests a fuck of a lot more in Dawn caste charms and Odysseus is some horrifying combination of a Night and Twilight.
- Location
- Spain
Mortals are Thersites.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
Dice pool =/= skill. Dice pools are mechanical, skill is narrative.
However, the ability to add 10 dice to your mundane pool is very much a mechanical representation of skill, even if you don't always use it.
Also, I made 4 points in that post, 3 directed at you.
You replied to one.
... Also also, that quote you gave is talking about excellencies, not specialties.
Who are you responding to?
Are you responding to me? If so:
edit: Also, I would expect the greatest sanxian player in the East to have comparable investment in playing the sanxian as Jack does in using his sword.
Last edited:
As of canon Exalted 2.5E, Lunars are playing Call of Duty, but with different skins on their inferior guns.
Ideally Lunars would be playing Hitman. Blending in, doing sneaky manipulative stuff, and finishing operations quietly-or if you fuck up, going loud and murdering them all (with the note that you're not quite as good at doing that as the other guys).