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General Exalted Thread

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Sydonai said:
The Writers wanted Martial Arts and Craft to be a mostly NPC thing and got really passive-aggressive over it instead of coming right out and saying that?
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Definitely not. Complicated mechanics like this only make sense for PCs.

Far as I can tell, Craft's awfulness was born from two key mistakes. The first was treating Craft almost purely as a source of Artifact gear and the second was thinking Cookie Clicker was a good model for RPG design.

As for Martial Arts, much of its silliness seems to spring from an attempt to make it not broken to buy it with Solar xp. And no, I don't know why they didn't just make Solar xp not usable on MA.

Sydonai said:
Or maybe a "Everyone talked about Martial Arts and Craft, that can only mean that everyone used those, that can only mean those were optimal, I/we have to make the playerbase more diverse by de-optimizing those every-character-has-these things" kind of mistaken impression of 2E...
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Craft is, if anything, broken-er than in 2e.
 
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Sydonai said:
Exalted already had those;
Artifacts:Armor of Elemental Inurement - exalted official wiki - mirror from archive.org
Artifacts:Armor of the Immaculate Dragons - exalted official wiki - mirror from archive.org
Artifacts:Armor of the Unseen Assassin - exalted official wiki - mirror from archive.org
Artifacts:Ashigaru Skirmish Armor - exalted official wiki - mirror from archive.org
Artifacts:Gunzosha Commando Armor - exalted official wiki - mirror from archive.org
Artifacts:Sentinel Defense Force Armor - exalted official wiki - mirror from archive.org
Artifacts:Tiger Shark Armor - exalted official wiki - mirror from archive.org
Artifacts:Yoroi Rapid-Response Armor - exalted official wiki - mirror from archive.org
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And uh, none of these come any close to actually being a Warframe proper; given a Warframe is actually a remote-controlled golem-body designed to limit and focus the power of the Tenno. And they also allow you to do shit like jump easily over 20 meters in the air, run on walls, influence gravity on a personal scale and many other feats. I really like power armour in Exalted, because I think it's aesthetics are rather interesting and sort of unique, but a Warframe, it is very much not.
 
Sanctaphrax said:
Definitely not. Complicated mechanics like this only make sense for PCs.

Far as I can tell, Craft's awfulness was born from two key mistakes. The first was treating Craft almost purely as a source of Artifact gear and the second was thinking Cookie Clicker was a good model for RPG design.

As for Martial Arts, much of its silliness seems to spring from an attempt to make it not broken to buy it with Solar xp. And no, I don't know why they didn't just make Solar xp not usable on MA.



Craft is, if anything, broken-er than in 2e.
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What else is craft for?
 
Sanctaphrax said:
As for Martial Arts, much of its silliness seems to spring from an attempt to make it not broken to buy it with Solar xp. And no, I don't know why they didn't just make Solar xp not usable on MA.
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Sanctaphrax said:
Definitely not. Complicated mechanics like this only make sense for PCs.

Far as I can tell, Craft's awfulness was born from two key mistakes. The first was treating Craft almost purely as a source of Artifact gear and the second was thinking Cookie Clicker was a good model for RPG design.

As for Martial Arts, much of its silliness seems to spring from an attempt to make it not broken to buy it with Solar xp. And no, I don't know why they didn't just make Solar xp not usable on MA.
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Part of the reason was that they wanted MA to be a thing for characters who were mostly Social. MA Charms are more effective than Solar Charms in general, but ended a bit of a Power Level below End Tier Solar Combat Charms. So the intention was for Social based Characters to splash into MA Charms with Solar Xp and be combat viable, whilst still allowing Supernal Combat Characters to be stronger than them in Fighting.
 
Accelerator said:
What else is craft for?
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As it happens, I wrote a full rewrite of Craft in which one of the major goals was de-emphasizing Artifact production. It's chock-full of non-Artifact-creating Craft Charms.

So the best answer I can give you is "follow that link".

Walker of the Yellow Path said:
Part of the reason was that they wanted MA to be a thing for characters who were mostly Social. MA Charms are more effective than Solar Charms in general, but ended a bit of a Power Level below End Tier Solar Combat Charms. So the intention was for Social based Characters to splash into MA Charms with Solar Xp and be combat viable, whilst still allowing Supernal Combat Characters to be stronger than them in Fighting.
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That kinda makes sense. But I think social characters could splash perfectly well with their normal xp.
 
Accelerator said:
What else is craft for?
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I mean, bluntly, the very fact that this is a question that can be seriously asked is to me the most damning indictment of Craft's publication history in Exalted, which has so warped the perception of it that the very idea of using it for things other than churning out magic doodads doesn't even occur to most people.
 
Imrix said:
I mean, bluntly, the very fact that this is a question that can be seriously asked is to me the most damning indictment of Craft's publication history in Exalted, which has so warped the perception of it that the very idea of using it for things other than churning out magic doodads doesn't even occur to most people.
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...... i didn't know that.
 
Accelerator said:
...... i didn't know that.
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They weren't calling you out there, but rather the game line as a whole. There's such a massive focus on Artifacts and high-level play that things like painting a portrait to influence the subject of the painting, or making really good, but non-magical, gear get forgotten in the rush to have as many Artifacts as possible in order to accumulate those sweet sweet bonus dice.

Frankly, this is part of why I like @EarthScorpion's Artifact rewrite so much. It separates out the "merely" stat-boosting gear from the True Wonders that ought to shape stories, and in doing so draws some of the focus back down the power scale.
 
Walker of the Yellow Path said:
Part of the reason was that they wanted MA to be a thing for characters who were mostly Social. MA Charms are more effective than Solar Charms in general, but ended a bit of a Power Level below End Tier Solar Combat Charms. So the intention was for Social based Characters to splash into MA Charms with Solar Xp and be combat viable, whilst still allowing Supernal Combat Characters to be stronger than them in Fighting.
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...and what about when Killfuck Soulshitter takes all combat Charms, and then uses Solar XP to take all Martial Arts?
 
Sydonai said:
Then that person is an idiot that gets Social'ed into being someone's pawn.
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Not true! A properly planned combat wombat with no social skills still has 2 defenses: murder and friends.
There's also option 3, which is "point me at the battle".

Accelerator said:
'Join battle'?

But... doesn't that screw up most missions. I mean, there's this beautiful hot blonde lady about to talk to you....

Then you draw your sword and attack her.
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Love requires sacrifice.
 
azoicennead said:
Love requires sacrifice.
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...... so you give up on conversation, which you are not good at, in favor of sticking your giant grand daiklave into this beautiful blond woman with long legs, and make her writhe, moan, and groan as liquid spills all over both of you soaking your clothes?

Yeah, I can see that.

edit: I'm gonna get infracted for this. But I won't delete it.
 
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Accelerator said:
...... so you give up on conversation, which you are not at, in favor of sticking your giant grand daiklave into this beautiful blond woman with legs, and make her writhe, moan, and groan as liquid spills all over?

Yeah, I can see that.

edit: I'm gonna get infracted for this. But I won't delete it.
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And sigged.
 
Sanctaphrax said:
the second was thinking Cookie Clicker was a good model for RPG design.
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Yeah, who looks at the "Yeah! Reality is being overwritten with cookies!" part of Cookie Cliker, and thinks it is a good craft system?

Overwriting reality is firmly a Wyld Shaping thing, and i am appalled about its use in Craft.

Edit: more seriously, i agree with the problem that the wrong emphasis of Craft has currently in the various editions of Exalted.
 
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Roadie said:
...and what about when Killfuck Soulshitter takes all combat Charms, and then uses Solar XP to take all Martial Arts?
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He gets stuck with a rather inefficient build since half his combat Charms are incompatible with the other. A much better use for his Solar XP would be some Evocations or buying up his Attributes. STR/DEX/STA/ all at 5 take a looooot of XP, and then there's Willpower to fuel all those combat Charms.
 
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