Would there be any scope to have Abyssals be the ones to play with the "no takebacks" rule a little?

I think there could be, but it would need to be done very carefully. If they can take something back, then the target must always be lessened and absolutely should not keep their Exaltation. This process should be leave someone in a state where the morality of using the charm on them is highly in question.

I wrote up a set of medicine charms based around skirting the line a long time ago. I'll post them once I get home.

They came out of effects that allowed someone to survive whatever torture they were put through, no matter how deadly it would have been. At the end, the Abyssal could forceably re-bind souls together in a way that leaves the recently deceased as a monster that happens to share the appearance and memories of the original person, but is irrevocably harmed by the process.

My position is that Abyssal Exaltation is not a positive experience. Abyssals don't effect positive change in the world and don't get to be happy as Abyssals.

Well, not the sane ones, at any rate.

I couldn't disagree more.

They should be able to create positive change, through destroying negative things or methods which would be unpalatable to most.
 
The problem with the whole "Abyssals can't do positive change" idea is that like all Exalts Abyssals are human+. And humans can do positive change. How do you propose to implement such a thing in a manner that's not reality and causality outright warping to fuck with the Abyssal?
 
The problem with the whole "Abyssals can't do positive change" idea is that like all Exalts Abyssals are human+. And humans can do positive change. How do you propose to implement such a thing in a manner that's not reality and causality outright warping to fuck with the Abyssal?

Abyssals can do wharever they please.

It's just that their charmset should be designed to encourage causing collateral damage in the process.

Also, being unsetting and creepy.


(Plus, you know, resonance. Although that needs a careful eye, to avoid the mess that it was in 2e).
 
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Abyssals can do wharever they please.

It's just that their charmset should be designed to encourage causing collateral damage in the process.

Also, being unsetting and creepy.


(Plus, you know, resonance. Although that needs a careful eye, to avoid the mess that it was in 2e).
That's not what a lot of people are saying. And the problem with collateral damage as a downside is that a creative player can turn it into an upside.

Remember how RAW stock Infernal Torment can be easily turned into a powerful weapon?
 
Example: The hunter Charms I wrote up some ideas for, give you a set of extra eyes and ears as well as a fucking terrifying companion in the shape of your Po, but it also makes you the creepy lord on his dark horse, hunting the countryside in unsavory matter and scaring the peasants when he comes riding through town, except for the few who go to join him on his hunts.
 
Abyssals can definitely do good and great things.

I like the idea that being an Abyssal sucks, though. Not in a way that the player feels, but in a way that justifies angst. Like, say...

Everything you eat tastes like dust and ashes. Your bones ache all the time. The Neverborn whisper horrible things to you whenever you try to relax. You can't really relate to the living, not on the easy instinctive level that you once could. Your once-pleasant face looks creepy and unnatural. All of your friendships are hard work, and those you aren't friends with tend to fear you.

It sucks!
 
The problem with the whole "Abyssals can't do positive change" idea is that like all Exalts Abyssals are human+. And humans can do positive change. How do you propose to implement such a thing in a manner that's not reality and causality outright warping to fuck with the Abyssal?
Have them slowly go insane, have their personality altered, have their charmset involve many nasty horrors, have them require seeking some destructive self-assigned goal or kill people. The Abyssals were made to assist in the slaughter of Creation. The things that made them would do something to make that more likely.

As a topic derail, since we were brainstorming on overhauling Abyssals, what about my brief though on making Infernal charm sets more like major villain archetypes and Solar charm sets more like aspects of heroic characters? It would make all three Solaroid Exalts share a partial theme of having ability sets to match storytelling tropes.
 
Which reminds me of some Charm ideas for Abyssals.

Let's call this Charm cascade; Nightmarish Hunter and take a look:

Mmm. No, that doesn't really fit in with how I see it. It's too Infernal.

So you want a Charm tree about being the head of a monstrous pack, right? So how do we go into it? Well, a good way is probably going in via Perception - "My sharp senses show I am a monstrous predator that stalks the night". It's for the same archetype as the Strigoi vampires in Warhammer Fantasy or feral vampires all over - and touches on modern Werewolf stuff too.

The root charm therefore starts with a clone of Keen (Sense) Technique and Unsurpassed (Sense) Discipline. However, we can preserve the Taint idea from 2E Abyssals, and therefore open an option for Abyssals to learn these Charms as Permanent Charms - at the cost of Obvious, death-y changes to their form. Keen Sight Technique gives them glowing red eyes or corpse-y white eyes or whatever, Keen Touch & Hearing Technique gives them a monstrous aspect to their form (slightly too long limbs, too much hair, or things like that), and Keen Smell & Taste Technique gives them a monstrous mouth.

Then you build from there. Hearing the animals all around you and giving a blood-curdling shriek that makes them run wild or obey you, or getting new senses like "feeling someone's body heat" (to get IR vision) build from there, and by the end of the tree if you take everything you're a leader of a monstrous pack of beasts - men and animals alike - where you've wetted their tongues with your blood and now they're spectral ghost-monsters, their pos fed by your bestial nature, and they're your pack, an extension of your senses and you can see through their eyes. Calling out a fraction of your po's hunger as a hunting beast is just a refinement of your own bestial senses - your senses are so sharp that your monstrous nature tracks things down for you without your active assistance.
 
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Aaron Peori Homebrew: Resonance
I think going straight to death is a bit too much but I really do like the idea that the Abyssals, more so than any other Exalted, have to work towards some goal or else they suffer horrific consequences of which 'death' is just one of the flavors of bad. This, obviously, suggest it ties directly into Resonance.

So, what is Resonance? Basically, Resonance isn't the will of the Neverborn or Deathlord's being mad at you or any sort of cosmic punishment for being nice to people. Resonance is, put simple, the fact that you are dead and nothing can prevent that. Every breath you take is a violation of the natural order, a transgression against existence itself. You breath in living essence and you respire out Resonance, the discordant reverberation of the cosmos as it creeps towards demise.

Characters would naturally accumulate Resonance not as punishment for being too human, but just automatically all the time. You'd work out some level of workable for a gameable amount. One/day may be too much but one/month is too little... probably about one per week sounds about right. Or maybe you can hold it off by doing typically Abyssal stuff. If you're in the Underworld or a Shadowland your Resonance is one/month, if you are in Creation (or another realm) but surround yourself with the trappings of death its one/week, if you're in Creation but denying your nature you get one/day.

You also gain Resonance from Sin. That is, from denying your Virtues. Whenever you succeed on a Virtue roll but decide to act contrary to the Virtue you get one Resonance. By denying your self, the passions that keep you moving, you speed up your return to the grave.

Players would then have ways of draining Resonance dots. All Abyssals get two baseline options; kill a sapient being (-1 Resonance) or act to further their Motivation (-1 Resonance whenever you would regain a wp from your Motivation). Ghosts, noteably, don't count as sapient beings so even if your Abyssal lives in a cave in the Labyrinth eventually he will be driven out of it by the pull of the grave on his soul.

If an Abyssal hits ten Resonance he starts suffering progressive penalties and if he stays at 10 Resonance too long he dies.

However, you would also get, in each of the Abyssal Charm trees, various ways of spending Resonance. Hmmm...

I'm going to steal an idea from oWoD demon here and suggest that all, or perhaps simply the majority, of Abyssal Charms have two modes of effect. There is the Natural effect, and the Resonant effect. The natural effect if what you get when you expend the normal costs of the charms (motes, wp, health levels, whatever). The Resonant Effect allows you to spend 1 Resonance to get a more powerful but also more transgressive and horrible version of the effect.

I could even see effects that voluntarily increase Resonance in certain ways or allow you to 'spread the love around' as an effect.

For example:



Irresistible Succubus Style
Cost: 5m, 1wp Type: Simple Duration: Indefinite
Keywords: Emotion, Resonant, Combo-Ok
Mins: Appearance 5, Essence 3 Prereqs: (something)

The Lord of Noble Shadows path guides the Abyssal with the fascination of death, the uncanny attraction of all things doomed to die with that moment of final doom. This Charm is activated when the Abyssal and one other consenting creature share a moment of intimacy; physical, emotional or otherwise. It can include any passion so long as the process takes at least a few minutes of close interaction.

The Abyssal rolls Appearance + Presence versus the targets Dodge MDV, adding his Essence in bonus successes. If successful the target immediately develop an Intimacy towards the Abyssal tinged by the Emotion their brief affair imposed. From there forward so long as the motes remain committed the target suffers a -3 internal penalty on any roll that would act against the Abyssal and a +1 die bonus on any action that supports the Abyssal or their stated goals. The target may resist this effect by spending 1wp to ignore it for one scene and shakes it off entirely when they have spent (Essence, maximum 5) wp in total.

Resonant Effect: By channeling the charnel power of the grave the Abyssal does not just inflict an Emotion on their target but drains a bit of their vital force as well. This effect must be accompanied by a symbolically violent act to culminate the encounter. Drinking blood is the most common expression but not the only.

The victim of this Charm gains an Resonance track filled with one permanent Resonance point and now counts as a Creature of Darkness if they didn't before. The Abyssal no longer needs to maintain Commitment to this Charm so long as the victim has at least one dot of Resonance. While bewitched the victim becomes pale and wane and more prone to sickness and ill health, this is visible but not Obvious as a charm effect (Diff 3 Perception + Occult or Diff 5 Per + Medicine roll to determine the cause). The victim suffers -(current resonance) external penalty on all rolls to resist hardship and disease as well as daily rolls to recover WP unless they have indulged their emotional intimacy with the Abyssal in the previous day. When working to further the intimacy or the Abyssal's stated goals they become a frenzy of mad energy, gain +(their current resonance) successes on all actions. However they also suffer one bashing health level of damage for each such scene of frenzied activity.

The Abyssal may terminate this Charm at any time by engaging in the same action as the initiating action and drawing all current Resonance from the victim into himself.
 
The early 1e pitch that had them as actual knights bound in fealty to their deathlord and following a code of chivalry of the dead? Somehow I doubt it.
For the curious - here's the actual text from the 1e core about Abyssal Exalted:
pp 15 said:
Champions of the Deathlords. The Abyssal Exalted have only recently appeared, yet these warrior-poets of the Underworld bear Caste Marks similar to those of the Solars and have been seen to use sorcery of the Celestial Circle. Not even the wisest of the Sidereal Exalted knows from whence the Deathlords summoned them, but the deathknights are mighty warriors - each the equal of one of the Lunar or Solar Exalted and more than a match for even the mightiest of the Dragon-Blooded.
pp 26 said:
It is unknown how these Exalted were created, but they have appeared only recently. Indeed, it is not certain if they are Exalted at all. Dragon-Blooded soldiers have had a number of encounters with the Abyssals and tell of the dark ones manipulating Essence to speak with ghosts and to control the bodies of those already dead. While this makes it highly likely that they are Exalted of some variety, no such creatures are mentioned in any of the books that have survived from the First Age, and where such a twisted thing would come from is an enigma, and a disturbing one.

The Abyssal Exalted are the antithesis of what the Exalted are in every particular. Where the Celestial Exalted channel radiance and foster life and growth, Deathknights are masters of darkness and necromancy. They are capable of manipulating shadows for diverse purposes, and their command of the dead is like a nightmare version of the Celestial rule. Most terrifyingly, the Abyssals do not appear overly inclined to use the natural flow of Essence through the world, even in Manses and Demesnes. While they are capable of pulling Essence from the Underworld to replenish their reserves, they gain Essence fastest when drawing it from living beings, and they appear to prefer, even enjoy, it. They feed in a variety of ways, including drinking blood from living creatures, stealing souls and eating the flesh of men.

Once they've stolen Essence from a living creature, deathknights can then channel that Essence into Charms and sorcery just as other Exalted do, though they seem to have a particular faculty for commanding ghosts and the bodies of the dead. While Abyssals generally consider themselves above living followers, they are frequently served by ghosts, zombies and other creatures associated with death and night. While that alone would make them dangerous opponents, deathknights are also formidable in hand-to-hand combat as well - some are as mighty as Lunar Exalted or Solars of the Dawn Caste.

The Abyssals have an affinity for soulsteel in the same way that other Exalted have their own favored metals. In their pallid hands, soulsteel is as powerful as orichalcum or moonsilver. In battle, the Abyssal Exalted wield weapons and armor forged out of hewn black iron, many bearing the faces of demonic beings or tormented souls to make them more terrifying. In the fashion of the dead, Abyssals typically go about with their faces concealed when they are able - wearing cowls, helmets and (most commonly) masks.
pp 313 said:
Unlike Deathlords, Abyssal Exalted are verifiably mortal. They were born within the shadowlands and Exalted much as a Solar or Lunar. After their Exaltation, they exist in a half-state of death and life. For some, decay sets in quickly, withering their flesh into a corpse's leathered carapace or to nothing but polished white bones. Others remain human in appearance, save for their chill skin and their unconcealable pallor. Their appetite for food diminishes, and most dine on blood, breath or even human flesh.

Abyssal Exalted are the noble champions of Death. Full of grace, educated and even charming in their cold fashion, the deathknights are gentlefolk as well as peerless warriors. In their soulsteel armor inlaid with intricate patterns of ivory and silver splinters, they are as beautiful as they are deadly. The molded armor may curve with the fluid grace of wind-tracked sand or glower with the countenance of a raging demon. Many wear helms decorated with ivory horns, great plumes or other ornaments. Their weapons, whether a double-crescent battle-axe, a skeletal bow or a blade with a frightful serrated edge, show the same phenomenal craftsmanship.
These Abyssals honestly seem more like dark mirrors of the Dragon-blooded than the Solars, what with apparently being hand-reared in shadowlands by Deathlords to form a morbid nobility of educated and well-equipped warrior poets out to usher the world into a philosophy of death.

Otherwise, their main bullet points are:
  • No-one knows what they are! Spooky and mysterious. Also powerful.​
  • Zombies with zombie powers and zombie friends.​
  • They eat people!​
  • But also beautiful and graceful somehow?​
  • Educated nobility with fancy, expensive, gothy-looking gear.​

Meanwhile, the Deathlords are explicitly divided into "100 little kingdoms of bone and steel" and "have no common center", because "[e]ach wishes to lash out at the world around her in her own personal fashion to recompense it for her death", but fuck if I'm typing that whole paragraph out in a notepad.
 
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I kind of liked them, but this works too.
_

lol i'm tired as shit, better do mechanics what could go wrong

what could possibly go wrong

Exanimate (Sense) Understanding
Cost:
3m; Mins: Perception 2, Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Taint
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Any Perception Excellency

Death has sharpened the senses of it's Chosen. This Charm functions mechanically like Keen (Sense) Technique with the exception that it may be purchased as a Taint Charm for the cost of four Experience points. This causes the Charm to gain the Obvious Keyword, as Exanimate Sight Understanding causes the Abyssal's eyes to permanently change, either becoming the expressionless white orbs of a dead woman or making her irises glow a crimson red. Likewise Exanimate Touch & Hearing Understanding twists the Abyssal's shape, elongating her limbs to an uncanny degree or causing the hair on her body to grow to such a degree that it might be unnerving, while Exanimate Smell & Taste twists their mouth into monstrosity, perhaps turning all their teeth into fangs or growing additional rows of teeth like a shark.

Immortal (Sense) Enlightenment
Cost:
2m; Mins: Perception 4, Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Appropriate Exanimate (Sense) Enlightenment

The Abyssal is a figure of two worlds, living and dead, thus her senses are unnatural in their precision. This Charm functions exactly like Unsurpassed (Sense) Discipline.

Slight Hearts Sympathy
Cost:
2m; Mins: Perception 3, Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Compulsion, Resonant
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Exanimate (Sense) Understanding

Creation's animals hide their tracks and nests from greater predators, failing to understand that no amount of camouflage may hide one from a predator that tore herself from the jaws of death. This Charm grants the Abyssal an immmediate understanding of the location of all animals within (Perception*10) yards of her, for the remainder of the scene. This Charm doesn't work on animals with higher Essence scores than the Abyssal herself, possesses.

Resonant Effect: You may also let loose a blood-curdling scream, causing all targets within range of the Charm on activation, to be struck with a Compulsion effect that either forces them to obey the Abyssal's orders or run wild for the remainder of the scene. This effect costs one point of Willpower to resist.

Pulse of The Prey
Cost:
5m; Mins: Perception 5, Essence 3; Type: -
Keywords: Combo-OK, Taint
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Immortal (Sense) Enlightenment

The Abyssal Exalted track even Hekatonkhires in the depths of the labyringth. When the Abyssal learns this Charm, she may gain one of the following effects when this Charm is activated, gaining a new effect costs two points of Experience:
  • Heart-Seeker: This effect allows the Abyssal to see the traceries of Fire Essence within all living beings, effectively allowing her to ignore any penalties to vision as long as they don't deny her sight completely. However looking at excessive sources of heat, such as the sun will cause the Abyssal to become blinded for (Exalted 2e, page 135) for the remainder of the scene unless she succeeds on a reflexive Wits + Dodge roll at Difficulty 3.
  • Death-Seer: This effect allows the Abyssal to track characters by their wounds, granting her a number of bonus successes on any Perception rolls made against them equal to their current highest wound penalty. It also allows the Abyssal to perceive such wounded targets through barriers as long as they are no more than (Essence) feet thick. However, this Charm also causes the Abyssal to be placed under a Compulsion to attack any unwounded characters they see that they do not possess a positive Intimacy towards. Resisting this Compulsion costs a single point of Willpower.
  • Horror-Augur: This effect allows the Abyssal to perfectly track any character that has an Intimacy of fear, revulsion or horror towards her, but whenever a character succeeds on a Valor roll in the Abyssal's presence, she must take at least one Move action to make a panicked retreat from them at her full speed or take a single point of Bashing damage, manifesting as a stinging headache whenever the Abyssal looks at them.
Any of these effects, that the Abyssal possesses may be learned as a Taint effect for three Experience Points.



I'm too tired to write more of these.

They're probably also rather shitty given my tiredness.
 
So... How does an Abyssal invest in Bureaucracy powers, if they are not ability-based but undead-based yet there is no "bureaucracy undead"?
Aren't Mummies the bureacracy undead? Like, ancient kings entombed to return to life here.

Of course, the normal mummy isn't much good at the whole bureacracy stuff, better to go with count dracula and his ilk for that.
So, what is Resonance? Basically, Resonance isn't the will of the Neverborn or Deathlord's being mad at you or any sort of cosmic punishment for being nice to people. Resonance is, put simple, the fact that you are dead and nothing can prevent that. Every breath you take is a violation of the natural order, a transgression against existence itself. You breath in living essence and you respire out Resonance, the discordant reverberation of the cosmos as it creeps towards demise.
I was having doubts about the Abyssal simply dropping dead if they couldn't find a way to make something, but this alternative way of doing it is cool and makes for cool charms.

Slight Hearts Sympathy
Cost:
2m; Mins: Perception 3, Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Compulsion, Resonant
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Exanimate (Sense) Understanding

Creation's animals hide their tracks and nests from greater predators, failing to understand that no amount of camouflage may hide one from a predator that tore herself from the jaws of death. This Charm grants the Abyssal an immmediate understanding of the location of all animals within (Perception*10) yards of her, for the remainder of the scene. This Charm doesn't work on animals with higher Essence scores than the Abyssal herself, possesses.

Resonant Effect: You may also let loose a blood-curdling scream, causing all targets within range of the Charm on activation, to be struck with a Compulsion effect that either forces them to obey the Abyssal's orders or run wild for the remainder of the scene. This effect costs one point of Willpower to resist.
Mhhh... the main charm isn't that bad, but the resonant effect isn't that good. Maybe it could be transformed into an effect that makes the Abyssal fall in a bloodlusted hunter mode, empowering furthly the charm (Maybe 100*perception yards?) but forcing him to hunt some if not all the animals perceived by the charm. Add an effects that ruins part of the meat for use of the living (You are using your sheer dead-wrongness to hunt better, i doubt the meat won't be tainted or what.), and it is even better.

This charm also made me think about broading that way of losing resonance with charms. Maybe hunting many normal/few special animal could be one; twisting the essence of a place to make a shadowland/weakening the geomancy/making an abyssal Desmene would be certainly one.

Anybody got other ideas?
 
...Okay. I mean, I was pretty sure that the term "paranoia combo" had so thoroughly soaked into every area of discussion on Exalted balance and game design that it was metaphorical bedrock, but sure, whatever.
At this point, I think that Darmani has become the new Vicki. Just, entirely a "do not engage" entity.

Death of the Endless, yes.

Incidentally, Sandman would be great inspiration for writing things up about this take on Abyssals.
I always saw the Endless as a really good inspiration for the Incarnae and general upper echelon gods. Especially how some of them have just decided to fuck off and leave their post unmanned.

lol i'm tired as shit, better do mechanics what could go wrong

what could possibly go wrong
How is it that you can shit these out pretty much on a whim? I envy you, mate.
 
This is one of my many hills. I am going to die on it. I am vast, I contain multitudes.


Blessed Regime Instruction 2.1

Cost: 5m
Minimums: Medicine 3, Essence 2
Type: Simple (One Hour)
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: Flawless Diagnosis Technique, Wound-Mending Care Technique

This Charm is a Dramatic Research Action in which the Solar composes a treatment plan, rolling [Intelligence + Medicine]. These plans range from diets, meditative yoga schedules, and carefully measured prescriptions. Treatment plans can either prevent or treat a malady, such as Sickness, Poison, or many kinds of Crippling conditions.

Mundane plans focused entirely on mortal effort with mundane medical knowledge is Difficulty 1. This includes diet, exercise, treating arthritis or ensuring a healthy pregnancy. Mundane plans can prevent non-magical infections as well.

Wise plans are Difficulty 3, and can emulate any medically relevant thaumaturgical procedure with a degree equal to or less than her Permanent Essence, even ones the Solar does not know, so long as they are understandably medical in nature. Such plans allow characters to avoid contracting supernatural, environmental Sickness and Poison effects, and other similar magical hazards.

Fawless treatment plan are Difficulty 5, and it can emulate a number of concurrent medical procedures equal to the threshold successes on that roll, with a degree equal to or less than her permanent Essence. This Charm explicitly considers procedures that enlighten Essence as medically relevant. Flawless plans can prevent environmental Crippling effects.

Thaumaturgical procedures invoked by this Charm function exactly as written, replacing the occult roll with the above planning action. The Solar still requires sufficient materials to create medicines unless otherwise noted.

Once the plan has been composed, the Solar then selects an intimacy her patient holds as an anchor for this treatment, which can be anything, such as loyalty towards the Solar or to the treatment itself. So long as the patient maintains faith, following the behaviors outlined counts as supernatural treatment, and all attached effects apply in full.


So, here I figured out how to attain something I wanted- inclusion of thaumaturgy. There are already a handful of medically relevant procedures in the gameline, and this Charm is explicitly intended to let you use homebrew ones more as you go.

Maybe some of the specific feats/exceptions like 'Enlightened Essence' is a bad idea, I don't know offhand. I do know that the two canonical 'Enlighten Essence' procedures- one takes five years, the other takes a much shorter time but risks killing your patient ...

Anyway, I'm pretty much happy with this. Diff 1 for 'Diets that acutally work'. Diff 3 for 'Quarantine procedures + thaumaturgical healing' and Diff 5 for "Stack on those healing buffs like a boss."
 
So, what is Resonance?

I like the proposal a lot, especially resonant charms.

My first thought for how to handle potentially dying is: When the character is at Resonance 10 or higher and they gain a point of Resonance, they also suffer from an unsoakable level of aggravated damage which cannot be prevented in any way. This damage cannot be healed until the Abyssal's Resonance is 10 or lower.

Slight Hearts Sympathy
Cost:
2m; Mins: Perception 3, Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Compulsion, Resonant
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Exanimate (Sense) Understanding

Creation's animals hide their tracks and nests from greater predators, failing to understand that no amount of camouflage may hide one from a predator that tore herself from the jaws of death. This Charm grants the Abyssal an immmediate understanding of the location of all animals within (Perception*10) yards of her, for the remainder of the scene. This Charm doesn't work on animals with higher Essence scores than the Abyssal herself, possesses.

Resonant Effect: You may also let loose a blood-curdling scream, causing all targets within range of the Charm on activation, to be struck with a Compulsion effect that either forces them to obey the Abyssal's orders or run wild for the remainder of the scene. This effect costs one point of Willpower to resist.

I agree with @Giygas about the resonant effect, though I think both effects seem rather weak for the Essence level of the charm. Maybe add in information about the type and nature of the animals that the Abyssal senses for the regular effect?

For the resonant effect, the animals controlled should be obviously possessed by unnatural power. Their muscles bulge until blood vessels burst, they eyes take on an unearthly glow, and their cries resound with the echos of the whispers of the Labyrinth. I think that allowing them to grant Essence points of mutations to Perception animals would make the later much more useful and threatening. I'd also remove the willpower ignoring the effect, unless the animal is owned by someone present.


For the skirting the line of breaking setting rules charms I mentioned earlier, here they are. I'm still not sure of the balance, though I did make a couple of modifications after checking other Solar and Infernal charms, but I hope they would give someone inspiration for other ideas.

The Pain Gets Worse
Cost: 6m Min Medicine 3, Essence 2 Type: Simple (5/-1)
Keywords: Combo-Basic
Duration: One Scene
Requires: One Medicine Excellency

The Abyssal touches a target and channels deathly Essence into their body. It infuses their senses and faculties, reinforcing them and preventing them from falling unconscious even when any normal being would no longer wish to feel. They will experience everything vividly, without any loss of sensation that would otherwise apply.

The character must succeed at an Intelligence+Medicine v MDV roll to use this charm on a target, even herself. If the target is willing, their MDV is considered 3 lower than normal.

This charm prevents the target from falling unconscious from Bashing damage when she has her incapacitated HL filled.

At Essence 3, it may be repurchased and expand its effects to include Lethal and Aggravated damage. Though anyone so grievously injured by such damage that their Incapacitated HL is filled, would suffer an additional -2 wound penalty.

Being affected by this charm takes its toll on the sanity of anyone and causes them to lose one temporary willpower when they're under its effects. Someone with a limit track also gains a point of limit.


Clarity Through Suffering
Cost: 6m, 1wp Min Medicine 5, Essence 3 Type: Simple(5/-1)
Keywords: Combo-Basic, Obvious
Duration: One Scene
Requires: The Pain Gets Worse

There is peace in the Void, an eternal silence as the sounds of the world are torn to pieces. Those who fall into its grasp experience true nothingness in the final moments before they too perish. For the first and last time in their lives, they may think without any distractions, even as their body is slowly devoured.

The character must succeed at an Intelligence+Medicine v MDV roll to use this charm on a target, even herself. If the target is willing, their MDV is considered 3 lower than normal.

The Abyssal draws forth this peace and clarity to the mind of her target. While this charm remains active, they turn any wound penalties or pain based external penalties on mental actions into bonuses. This charm adds one die to the mental action per point of penalty that they would have taken. These bonus dice count as dice added by charms and are capped by either the target's native dice cap or the Abyssal's Essence, whichever is higher.

However, while their mind is free to think and remember, their body cried out in worse agony than before. The target suffers an additional -2 external penalty to all non-mental actions.

At Essence 4, this charm's duration becomes Indefinite. However, any target becomes a Creature of Darkness after they've spent a day under its effects.


Deathless Fugue
Cost: 3m/HL Min Medicine 4, Essence 3 Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious, Shaping
Duration: One Scene
Requires: One Medicine Excellency

Those in the Abyssal's presence may only perish when the Deathknight allows it. When a being would be struck down, the Abyssal reaches out with necrotic tendrils to preserve their body and soul despite grievous injury. The shackles of the Void bind the souls to the body, much as a ghost is bound to its fetters.

When a being with Essence * 5 yards of the Abyssal would die from damage, she may commit three motes per health level to extend their dying health track and keep the target alive, if only barely.

At the end of the scene, these extra health levels expire and all damage that they contained will be applied to the target. The target then immediately dies if they have not been healed. Though few beings can naturally heal when in such a state, those that do gain no benefit. The target's natural healing is also halted for the duration of this charm, requiring some form of supernatural effect to revive them.

At Essence 4 this charm may be purchased a second time to extend its duration to Indefinite. However, for every hour that it remains active, the target will receive an unsoakable level of aggravated damage. This forces the Abyssal to commit additional motes if she wishes to keep the target alive.


Bound by the Void
Cost: 20m, 2wp, 3 res Min Medicine 5, Essence 5 Type: Simple (6/-3 Long Ticks)
Keywords: Combo-Basic, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Requires: Clarity Through Suffering, Deathless Fugue, Ivory Whirlwind Restoration

A true Master of Death has control over the souls of a being, even as the corpse cools. The Abyssal performs a ritual over the recently deceased, binding the souls to their old flesh once more. Through her might and will, the deceased will once more walk the nights of Creation. But none may rise again without being scarred in the process.

This charm must be used within three days of when the target died. Any later and there are no souls remaining to bind to the corpse. Also, no matter how quickly this charm is used, any Exaltation that the target possessed is irrevocably lost and no other can ever be gained the soul fusion produced by this charm is not a valid target for Exaltation.

The target becomes both a Creature of Darkness and a Creature of Death on their resurrection. They will also acquire 3 plus the number of days they've been dead points of negative mutations, mental or physical. These mutations may not be healed or recovered from by any means, for they are scars of the soul that keep the new being together.

If the target was a spirit, they also lose a point of Permanent Essence which may never be recovered, leaving their new Essence cap as 9. Any spirit reduced to Essence 0 by such effects is slain as if by Ghost Eating Technique.

If this charm is used on a target a second time, they receive additional penalties that stack with the first

This charm cannot be used on any target slain through Ghost Eating Technique or similar effects.
 
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That's not what a lot of people are saying. And the problem with collateral damage as a downside is that a creative player can turn it into an upside.

No, you see.

That's a feature.

This is, like, half the point of the splat. If your players start using the draining side effects of a power to lay waste to their enemies lands, the charmset is doing exactly what it means to do.
 
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If the collateral damage is a balace point then being able to do that is a bad idea.

The collateral damage isn't a balance point. It's the main point of the whole thing.

The Abyssal players should be incentiviced to cause misery wherever they go.

(And if they don't want to, hey, they just have to restrain their charm use. It's not like it's that hard, right?).
 
Ugh, I dislikethe Infernals very explicitly only embraced for their charms with the nigh universal au fluff of no Lilun and Swallowthe Scorpion or Mythos Exultant or whatever happening anytime someone drops a box of needles for who needs consequences for agreeing to sigh with the demons princes who are going to grotesquely reshape you in a cocoon in their own image.

I LOVED Abyssals were given a choice... and became monsters out to kill the world. But apparently the Infernals are just hot topic mixed with eternal weird drug and philosophy campus. Seriously if they were fanfiction we'd call them mary sues. Aside from their powers which demand to be adored and dealt with ...

So now Abyssals feel like suckers. I mean overthere people are making deals with the devils that are all beneficial and no worse than being an overworked a list celeb who gets to play with transhumanist toys. So they want that deal. And Infernals barely pretend to consider themselves slaves to awful beings or if they are its all that mean ol' Creation and the Gods fault for hating how brilliant and unique they were.
 
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So now Abyssals feel like suckers. I mean overthere people are making deals with the devils that are all beneficial and no worse than being an overworked a list celeb who gets to play with transhumanist toys. So they want that deal. And Infernals barely pretend to consider themselves slaves to awful beings or if they are its all that mean ol' Creation and the Gods fault for hating how brilliant and unique they were.

The difference is that Abyssals make their deal on their deathbed, and get to 'not die'.
Every breathe that an Abyssal takes is a rejection of the natural order, for refusing to die when they were killed.
 
As far as I can tell there's basically three reasons to play an Abyssal, after a lotta talking with various people.
1) You want to be known as <kitschy metal/emo band name goes here> and are in the mood for campy bullshit.
2) You want to 'redeem' yourself
-a) Probably by becoming a Solar, as in, "I want to play this thing to not be this thing"
3) You just want to straight up murder shit and be evil.

The first is stupid and I am inordinately fond of it but it's ultimately vacuous; the second is "eh kind of works" but isn't enough to carry a splat for PCs; the third is just dumb because it makes you a cardboard cutout and kind of shits on the whole theme of "moral ambiguity" that's intrinsic to the game as far as I can tell.

Am I off the mark, or is there really not that much here? The fact we've had this discussion get this far suggests to me I'm not that far from it.
 
The first is stupid and I am inordinately fond of it but it's ultimately vacuous; the second is "eh kind of works" but isn't enough to carry a splat for PCs
Well, as a backstory element, "I am a Redeemed Abyssal" is rife with plot hooks from "I have an intimacy of hatred towards every canon Deathlord save one" and "I know far more about certain part of the setting than I should" and "I spam the Larceny charm that gives my other charms black eyeshadow"

It also explained why I was the only PC or exalted NPC without a whole bunch of dots in Past Life.
You just want to straight up murder shit and be evil.
My name is Killfuck Soulshitter, and welcome to Grand Theft Yeddim.
 
As far as I can tell there's basically three reasons to play an Abyssal, after a lotta talking with various people.
From what I understand of Abyssals in 2e, it's much less 'want to' and more so 'these are your only options'. Attempting to do anything else with canon Abyssals doesn't really work.

It's why everyone doesn't like them. They're bland, boring, and have two narrative arcs- be an irredemable asshole, or play a splat for the express purpose of trying to play another splat.
 
From what I understand of Abyssals in 2e, it's much less 'want to' and more so 'these are your only options'. Attempting to do anything else with canon Abyssals doesn't really work.

It's why everyone doesn't like them. They're bland, boring, and have two narrative arcs- be an irredemable asshole, or play a splat for the express purpose of trying to play another splat.

I think I remember Neph saying something along the lines of "Done right, Abyssals should almost make you want to stop playing the game."

Which is, uh, pretty terrible game design.
 
Fundamentally, people need to remember that a lot of Exalted was built around the idea of counterculture and a kind of post-modern design. See: Neph's comment. "You shouldn't want to play this!"

This is of course, a mixed bag. Abyssals, and to a lesser extent Infernals, are supposed to invoke a degree of monstrosity that players were expected to confront and then grapple with as a roleplaying challenge.

This was too challenging for most tables and therefore did not happen.
 
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