From what I understand of Abyssals in 2e, it's much less 'want to' and more so 'these are your only options'. Attempting to do anything else with canon Abyssals doesn't really work.
It's not so much that that's the only thing you can do as that it's the only thing the splatbook wants you to do. Their Manual of Exalted Power is written from the assumption that Abyssal characters are going to be Killfuck Soulshitter or Angsty McLoner, with occasional nods in the direction of the "fuck off to the Underworld to hang with ghosts" option. You can certainly do more with Abyssals without breaking out the homebrew or anything (I mentioned earlier I like playing heroism in the face of the void's inevitable victory, for instance), but you have to fight against the storytelling chapter to do it.
 
Man, the more I see talk about Neph and Exalted 2e, the more Mummy: The Curse finally makes sense to me in the direction that it took.

Speakin' of, have you guys ever had any kind of Egyptesque culture in Creation anywhere? Is there one already that I just haven't found yet?
 
As far as I can tell there's basically three reasons to play an Abyssal, after a lotta talking with various people.
1) You want to be known as <kitschy metal/emo band name goes here> and are in the mood for campy bullshit.
2) You want to 'redeem' yourself
-a) Probably by becoming a Solar, as in, "I want to play this thing to not be this thing"
3) You just want to straight up murder shit and be evil.
4: You played V:tM and prefer your RPGs with a heaping helping of angst, depression, suffering, and despair
 
Mhhh... the main charm isn't that bad, but the resonant effect isn't that good. Maybe it could be transformed into an effect that makes the Abyssal fall in a bloodlusted hunter mode, empowering furthly the charm (Maybe 100*perception yards?) but forcing him to hunt some if not all the animals perceived by the charm. Add an effects that ruins part of the meat for use of the living (You are using your sheer dead-wrongness to hunt better, i doubt the meat won't be tainted or what.), and it is even better.

I agree with you, the Resonant effect is not something that I'm satisfied with, and the main Charm isn't that strong to begin with, so the Resonant effect should totally make it worth it (along with some buffs to the main Charm).

How is it that you can shit these out pretty much on a whim? I envy you, mate.

Well, two are literally just copies of Solar Charms with EVIL SPOOKY VAMPIRE LORD flavor, one exists for the purpose of going MAN IS THE GREATEST PREDATOR, FOR HE KILLS FOR AMUSEMENT RATHER THAT NECESSITY and the final one is "lol vampire senses".

I wouldn't want to touch something like Intelligence with a ten-foot pole.

But thank you very much. :smile:

I agree with @Giygas about the resonant effect, though I think both effects seem rather weak for the Essence level of the charm. Maybe add in information about the type and nature of the animals that the Abyssal senses for the regular effect?

For the resonant effect, the animals controlled should be obviously possessed by unnatural power. Their muscles bulge until blood vessels burst, they eyes take on an unearthly glow, and their cries resound with the echos of the whispers of the Labyrinth. I think that allowing them to grant Essence points of mutations to Perception animals would make the later much more useful and threatening. I'd also remove the willpower ignoring the effect, unless the animal is owned by someone present.

I like this one. Here is the rewrite:

Slight Hearts Sympathy
Cost:
2m; Mins: Perception 3, Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Compulsion, Resonant
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Exanimate (Sense) Understanding

Creation's animals hide their tracks and nests from greater predators, failing to understand that no amount of camouflage may hide one from a predator that tore herself from the jaws of death. This Charm grants the Abyssal an immmediate understanding of the location of all animals within (Perception*10) yards of her, for the remainder of the scene. This Charm doesn't work on animals with higher Essence scores than the Abyssal herself, possesses. For the purposes of this Charm, mortals with intimacies of horror, revulsion or fear of death or you count as animals.

Resonant Effect: You may also let loose a blood-curdling scream, causing all targets within range of the Charm on activation, to be struck with a Compulsion effect that either forces them to obey the Abyssal's orders or run wild for the remainder of the scene, this effect twists and warps the targets, granting them (Perception) points of positive mutations, but causes their meat to spoil, making it quickly rot in a matter of days, if any of the affected targets die under it's effects. This effect costs two points of Willpower to resist, only owned animals and non-extras may resist this Charm.



For the skirting the line of breaking setting rules charms I mentioned earlier, here they are. I'm still not sure of the balance, though I did make a couple of modifications after checking other Solar and Infernal charms, but I hope they would give someone inspiration for other ideas.

Okay then, let's take a look:


This seems fairly balanced. It's closest competitor would probably be By Pain Reforged and By Agony Empowered, though those only work on you, and cost a single HL, whereas this one works on others, but requires that you commit your precious mote pool.

This seems okay.

Clarity Through Suffering

This seems to have a weird interaction with it's prerequisite. It makes The Pain Gets Worse feel obsolete and useless, since I can turn the penalties into bonuses instead, though it's effects have more drastic consequences. But what happens if I'm no longer taking any penalties due to The Pain Gets Worse, and I use this one? Do I gain a mental bonus of +0?

I think it should have a better interaction with it's prerequisite.


This seems cool and appropriate, and allows for me to torture people by refusing to let them die, this is cool and appropriate.


What happens if I use it on a Dragon-Blooded since, their Exaltation is less spiritual in matter?

Does it simply not care and still revoke their Exaltation? Does it ruin their Breeding completely? Does it make them a Dragon of a Different Color?

Otherwise, it looks fine.
 
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As far as I can tell there's basically three reasons to play an Abyssal, after a lotta talking with various people.
1) You want to be known as <kitschy metal/emo band name goes here> and are in the mood for campy bullshit.
2) You want to 'redeem' yourself
-a) Probably by becoming a Solar, as in, "I want to play this thing to not be this thing"
3) You just want to straight up murder shit and be evil.


Well, as i see it, the whole point is the obsession. You play someone who desires something so much (Wharever that is vengance, or protecting a loved one, or restauring the ancient customs of your decayed realm, something) that you are ready to ignore all taboos, break any law. Starting with the fact that you should be dead.

There are plenty of compelling characters you can do around this- Although i have to say, maybe i am just partial because i like that story (Just look at my avatar).
 
Hmmm. In the attributes model, where would you put a "I keep my heart in a teapot" charm that allows you to reform unless killed with a spirit-killer?

(Stamina, i guess? or maybe Int, as part of the long-planning thing).
 
I hate the "redemption is the only story" for the reasons listed above, and the fact that it's basically "you just got given a second chance by these guys! NOW STAB THEM IN THE BACK SO HARD YOU CAN REACH THROUGH THEM AND PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE!"

It's like if the core Infernal story was finding ways to foil all the plans of the Yozis.
 
Hmmm. In the attributes model, where would you put a "I keep my heart in a teapot" charm that allows you to reform unless killed with a spirit-killer?

(Stamina, i guess? or maybe Int, as part of the long-planning thing).

"Listen, and understand! That Terminator Abyssal is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop... ever, until you are dead!"

Stamina seems right, yes. :V
 
I hate the "redemption is the only story" for the reasons listed above, and the fact that it's basically "you just got given a second chance by these guys! NOW STAB THEM IN THE BACK SO HARD YOU CAN REACH THROUGH THEM AND PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE!"

It's like if the core Infernal story was finding ways to foil all the plans of the Yozis.
The core Infernal story is in fact "lol, thanks for the power, scrubs" and fucking off to wherever to enjoy your demon hookers and hell blow
 
The core Infernal story is in fact "lol, thanks for the power, scrubs" and fucking off to wherever to enjoy your demon hookers and hell blow
I thought the core Infernal story was "hey man you know that shit you want to do? We also want you to do it, and want to give you the best shit to accomplish it alongside the greatest demon hookers and blow that Hell has ever seen."

A huge part of Infernals is managing your Hell contacts IMO, much of which is auctioning what you already wanted to do to the highest bidder. You CAN fuck off and do your own thing, but why would you when people will effectively pay you to do said thing?
 
"Listen, and understand! That Terminator Abyssal is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop... ever, until you are dead!"

Stamina seems right, yes. :V

Well, given that it's an occult ritual of a sort (I'd certainly put it in Occult if I were using Ability-based trees) you could also easily justify Wits or Intelligence, I imagine.
 
I thought the core Infernal story was "hey man you know that shit you want to do? We also want you to do it, and want to give you the best shit to accomplish it alongside the greatest demon hookers and blow that Hell has ever seen."

A huge part of Infernals is managing your Hell contacts IMO, much of which is auctioning what you already wanted to do to the highest bidder. You CAN fuck off and do your own thing, but why would you when people will effectively pay you to do said thing?
That's ES's interpretation, I think. The corebook version is...muddled, but the Reclamation there has a much more hierarchical and militant tone, as I suppose befits anything involving Swillin.
 
That's ES's interpretation, I think. The corebook version is...muddled, but the Reclamation there has a much more hierarchical and militant tone, as I suppose befits anything involving Swillin.
I don't steal ES' version wholesale but I seeing as you want to throw out much of the Infernals book anyways I suspect most people run fairly different versions of Hell. Then again, I outright got rid of Limit in my games, but that was mainly because I frankly didn't need it; people either actually roleplayed larger than life characters or they rollplayed which ended up giving you the exact kind of separated from reality murder kings that Limit granted anyways.
 
That's ES's interpretation, I think. The corebook version is...muddled, but the Reclamation there has a much more hierarchical and militant tone, as I suppose befits anything involving Swillin.

Even under ES' interpretation, I feel the need to stress that Infernals still have Urges- they're still given orders, they're just given more leeway to take on their own tasks as well, it seems.
 
This was too challenging for most tables and therefore did not happen.
I think that 2e Abyssals are "too challenging" in the way that the terrible unfilm What Is It? was "too challenging" for the arthouse circuit - I don't care how edgy and 'out there' the creator thinks his little darling is, the bastard's still demanding that I stare at a naked cerebral palsy sufferer perched on a giant clamshell while a man with Down's Syndomre soliloquizes at snails in the background. Please go away, person responsible for that. Please make all of that go away, forever.
 
I think that 2e Abyssals are "too challenging" in the way that the terrible unfilm What Is It? was "too challenging" for the arthouse circuit - I don't care how edgy and 'out there' the creator thinks his little darling is, the bastard's still demanding that I stare at a naked cerebral palsy sufferer perched on a giant clamshell while a man with Down's Syndomre soliloquizes at snails in the background. Please go away, person responsible for that. Please make all of that go away, forever.

This.

2e Abyssals were challenging in the way that they challenged me with the question of whether to burn the book or use it as a strategic nuke against stories I didn't like.
 
BROKEN DRIVEN SOUL
(Essence 5, Integrity 5)
Type: Reflexive
Prerequisites: ???
Cost: 5m, 1wp, 10xp
Duration: Instant

The Deathknight's enemies pray to their gods so that she will finally stop. At times, she begs for the same thing.

When the Abyssal uses the charm, she revives with all health levels healed of damage, even aggravated. This comes at a cost however, one of her secondary attribute and two of her tertiary attribute(player's choice) are reduced by one maximum dot to a minimum of one, and she gains two permanent (Resonance/Limit/Whatever) and loses one permanent willpower to a minimum of one. As she uses the bonds she has made to pull her back from the silent roaring Void, lesser attachments are broken and even the stronger ones are weakened, She loses all minor intimacies, Major and Defining intimacies decreases by one intensity except the one that represent her reason for becoming an Abyssal. Intimacies lost this way have their subject forgotten, she may remember that she once loved someone or that she once upheld an oath but it is all ashes now. Of course, she may still forge new Intimacies.

She will enter xp debt if she cannot pay the experience cost

At the Deathknight's choice she may delay her resurrection for up to 24 hours and at a location (Integrityx50 miles) from when she died. Destroying or putting her body in another realm of existence means nothing, it simply crumbles into dust, turn into shadows, or simply disappear when no ones looking when she resurrects .

Taint: A repurchase at Essence 6 makes this charm permanent, and waives the mote and willpower cost and decreases the experience cost to 5xp. but she will resurrect no matter what. However, not even her reason for accepting the Abyssal Exaltation is undamaged. For every two deaths the Intimacy intencity decreases by one. If she loses this Intimacy then her Exaltation will leave and find another bearer, for she is nothing more than an undying corpse, a pitiful thing that has lost all reason and power, and whatever sliver of soul she has is worthless, let alone human.
----
Very high chance of being broken. I'll probably make a 'Kirei in the Heaven's Feel finale' charm later to replace this.
 
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The core Infernal story is in fact "lol, thanks for the power, scrubs" and fucking off to wherever to enjoy your demon hookers and hell blow
I thought the core Infernal story was "hey man you know that shit you want to do? We also want you to do it, and want to give you the best shit to accomplish it alongside the greatest demon hookers and blow that Hell has ever seen."

A huge part of Infernals is managing your Hell contacts IMO, much of which is auctioning what you already wanted to do to the highest bidder. You CAN fuck off and do your own thing, but why would you when people will effectively pay you to do said thing?
To me, Infernals' endgame seems to shake out to:

- Eventually rebelling against your former masters and becoming as they once were, a New Primordial to craft a New Creation (or just fuck around in the Wyld, or crank-call Autochthon, or whatever)

- Aiding the Reclamation by - out of pity, or love, or pragmatism - becoming a new fetich soul for one of the Yozis, changing who they are and thus allowing them to wriggle out of the Surrender Oaths' chains*. This probably boils down to suicide/becoming a ghost, since welding yourself to a Yozis' metaphysical anatomy by your Exaltation probably doesn't do good things for your sanity or spiritual stability.


* My personal favorite on this one would be a Cecelynian Infernal who decides to try and become a replacement for her lost faith in the justness of the world, or bend Sachaverell back into a more safe-for-Creation form so that the Yozis will have a new ally with unparalleled intelligence-gathering abilities and no Surrender Oath to hold them back.
 
Hmmm. In the attributes model, where would you put a "I keep my heart in a teapot" charm that allows you to reform unless killed with a spirit-killer?

(Stamina, i guess? or maybe Int, as part of the long-planning thing).

As an archetype, that belongs to things like malicious sorcerer-kings and mummies and the like.

So, if we're going for a canopic jar theme and generally going for a "lord of ancient treasures laden down with curses" feel, I'd put that in Intelligence, in a broadly mummy/grave goods themed tree. It's a "I'm so smart, my mind survives the death of my body because I have found a way around death" thing.

So the tree contains the GSS-alikes (because you're pulling ancient cursed treasures from the Underworld for a scene, before they vanish back to their resting place), it contains "mummy's curse" effects, it might well contain some crafting things for all your grave good undead bling needs, and it contains the canopic jar stuff where you don't die because you hid your heart.
 
Intelligence will also have "I am a Methusaleh written by White Wolf and as thus, my plans can do everything."

Hopefully, this Charm can be written without being as asinine as an actual Methusaleh written by White Wolf.
 
To be honest, I don't really see the appeal of Attribute-based Abyssals.

Attribute Charms are useful for creating characters with very broad areas of competency and/or powers that stem from what they are, rather than what they do. This suits the shapeshifting, tactically flexible Lunars and the upgradeable, strategically flexible Alchemicals, but I'm not so sure it works for Abyssals. An Alchemical gets an Intelligence Charm rather than a Bureaucracy Charm, because any superhuman accomplishments in bureaucratic reform are rooted in the new positronic paperwork node they had installed in their brain. A Lunar gets a Strength Charm rather than a Melee Charm, because while they can smack someone over the horizon with a tetsubo, that comes from swelling their muscles with primal power.

Dragon-blooded have Ability Charms because they're champions of civilisation who learn techniques from their family and superiors. Solars have Ability Charms because they represent superhuman excellence rather than transhuman capabilities. Sidereals have Ability Charms because their powers are discrete techniques which are taught to them and interact with the world in strange ways.

Abyssals should therefore have Ability Charms, because a) they're a dark parody of the world's heroes, b) it gives Deathlords something to teach them, c) it represents most of their capabilities better. A mad Abyssal leech-doctor should have powers rooted in Medicine, not Intelligence. A stealthy serial killer Abyssal should have powers rooted in Stealth, not Dexterity or Appearance. A cursed sea captain Abyssal should have powers rooted in Sail, not Charisma. Resistance/Stamina is about the only area where this isn't the case, and that's always been an awkwardly artificial split intended to allow Solars and Dragon-blooded to have Stamina Charms.


As an aside – like most Exalts, while Abyssals can be played for their aesthetics, and their aesthetic inspiration has a fair amount of overlap with their narrative inspiration, there is not a 1:1 link between characters who look like Abyssals and characters who play out Abyssal stories. Sir Daniel Fortesque is a spooky skeleton guy raised from the dead by a monstrous, ghostly necromancer, but he's not really an Abyssal. Monstrous Abyssals who embrace the power of death are a dime-a-dozen, but if I were to list heroic "Abyssal" characters, off the top of my head...

  • Guts
  • Kaneki Ken
  • Batman
  • Victoria Seras
  • Martin Walker
  • Kisaragi Saya
  • Darth Vader
  • Sweeny Todd
  • Siegfried/Nightmare
  • Kiritsugu Emiya
  • Kratos
  • Venom Snake
  • Raiden
  • Ascheriit
  • The Lady
  • Winter Soldier
  • Jackie Estacado
  • Uchiha Sasuke if he weren't so shit
 
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To be honest, I don't really see the appeal of Attribute-based Abyssals. Attribute Charms are useful for creating characters with very broad areas of competency and/or powers that stem from what they are, rather than what they do. This suits the shapeshifting, tactically flexible Lunars and the upgradeable, strategically flexible Alchemicals, but I'm not so sure it works for Abyssals. An Alchemical gets an Intelligence Charm rather than a Bureaucracy Charm, because any superhuman accomplishments in bureaucratic reform are rooted in the new positronic paperwork node they had installed in their brain. A Lunar gets a Strength Charm rather than a Melee Charm, because while they can smack someone over the horizon with a tetsubo, that comes from swelling their muscles with primal power.

Dragon-blooded have Ability Charms because they're champions of civilisation who learn techniques from their family and superiors. Solars have Ability Charms because they represent superhuman excellence rather than transhuman capabilities. Sidereals have Ability Charms because their powers are discrete techniques which are taught to them and interact with the world in strange ways.

Abyssals should therefore have Ability Charms, because a) they're a dark parody of the world's heroes, b) it gives Deathlords something to teach them, c) it represents most of their capabilities better. A mad Abyssal leech-doctor should have powers rooted in Medicine, not Intelligence. A stealthy serial killer Abyssal should have powers rooted in Stealth, not Dexterity or Appearance. A cursed sea captain Abyssal should have powers rooted in Sail, not Charisma. Resistance/Stamina is about the only area where this isn't the case, and that's always been an awkwardly artificial split intended to allow Solars and Dragon-blooded to have Stamina Charms.


As an aside – like most Exalts, while Abyssals can be played for their aesthetics, and their aesthetic inspiration has a fair amount of overlap with their narrative inspiration, there is not a 1:1 link between characters who look like Abyssals and characters who play out Abyssal stories. Sir Daniel Fortesque is a spooky skeleton guy raised from the dead by a monstrous, ghostly necromancer, but he's not really an Abyssal. Monstrous Abyssals who embrace the power of death are a dime-a-dozen, but if I were to list heroic "Abyssal" characters, off the top of my head...

  • Guts
  • Kaneki Ken
  • Batman
  • Victoria Seras
  • Martin Walker
  • Kisaragi Saya
  • Darth Vader
  • Sweeny Todd
  • Siegfried/Nightmare
  • Kiritsugu Emiya
  • Kratos
  • Venom Snake
  • Raiden
  • Ascheriit
  • The Lady
  • Winter Soldier
  • Jackie Estacado
  • Uchiha Sasuke if he weren't so shit

I always figured Jackie would be an Infernal, not an Abyssal.
 
Uchiha Sasuke if he weren't so shit

no u.

On a more serious note, I can kinda see the appeal of both.

I can be Inaros, rising from the ruins of his temple-grave on Phobos to test those who request his aid, using his Stamina Charms to drain his own life-force and make it into accursed armor or inter himself in a deathly sarcophagus in order to devour the vitality of his killers, so he can rise again.

I could also be Darth Vader, using his Melee Charms to beat his son in their duel or crushing the throats of his underlings, by using his Brawl Charms to hold them in an inescapable, invisible, iron grip.

As long as it's not canon Abyssals, I'm fine with them.
 
I always figured Jackie would be an Infernal, not an Abyssal.
Characters can suit different kinds of Exalted. Vader or Walker could be Dragon-blooded, Raiden has Alchemical elements even outside of his aesthetics, The Lady or Kratos could be Solars, Kaneki was one of the examples for the back-to-the-drawing-board Lunar concept I raised a while back, and Batman can be damn near anything because he's Batman. That said, I'd place "Infernal" as a distant second place to "Abyssal" for Jackie. The Darkness certainly has the "alien powers and agenda" down pat, and the hospital subplot of The Darkness II is a nice take on an Infernal's inner world, but it ultimately lacks the encroaching transhumanism, alien morality, sheer demonic indulgence, or ability to reconcile. The Darkness is evil, and death, and decay, an antagonistic force that's returned Jackie from death time and again, aiming to make his life a living hell just so he'll do the same to the world.
 
Most Dark Souls protagonists are also returned from death specifically so they can hunt down and kill the gods. Unlike an Abyssal, they are supposedly doing so in order to perpetuate life and civilization, which goes against the "entropy" theme of Abyssals; however it is worth noting that their only real tools in restoring life to the world are murder, murder and more murder, and at least in DS1 the final brick in that edifice is their own sacrifice. They are also constantly lied to by basically everyone they meet to make sure that they follow the dotted murder-path and eventually perish in horrible agony.

One could linken them easily to an Abyssal whose Monstrance (or whatever similar plot item allowing communication and assistance by a liege figure your version may have) has been claimed by a god who is trying to harness this dangerous figure to further Heaven's goals, before ultimately disposing of them.

With all the risks that come with it.
 
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