Dark Ness
Rises Where Silence Dies
- Location
- The Primordial Soup
And if they are getting a constant 12 motes regening, those three make no difference. That is my problem.
General Exalted Thread
Jon Chung
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It should be 8 motes, not 12, the usual assumed baseline is 2d instead of 3d because 3d is wholly subjective.
Strictly speaking, it's 4 (or 6), because one of those two guaranteed stunt rewards is consumed to restore the 1 Willpower you spend activating your paranoia combo. You can forego this in favour of getting more motes, but if you do that you will only be able to last your willpower in actions before you stop being able to activate combos and die.
Also, attack more than once. The way you bleed a p-combo user of motes is to throw out many attacks that he feels he must perfect.
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vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
I still think that if one needs to provide a solution to the problem quickly, it's better to provide it through dealing with the undesired effect (one that matches the letter of the rule but not its spirit), preferably through a storytelling method, than through a hasty untested mechanics-changing method. Which seems to be exactly what the Professor of Borgstromancy proposed.
I guess by now we have spent our 2WP on resisting each other's arguments no less than once, so I'm not not willing to follow up on that subthread further.
Jon Chung
=][=
The undesired effect is that a method for killing everything I can see exists in the game, vicky. Again: name a legitimate reason for this to exist.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Paranoia Combo isn't PunPun level power gaming because it's not 'I win at everything forever from level 1', it's giving your fighter armour and a con score above 10. It's basic competence that you will get splattered without.
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
... what "hasty untested mechanics-changing method" are you referring to, here? Because in case you haven't noticed, vicky, you've been arguing this shit for months; literally fucking months, always the exact same shit, with people who have known about it for years and - trust me on this - turned the problem over and examined it from every conceivable angle and come up with a wide variety of solutions, albeit none of them perfect.
That is not what one would call "hasty", and they're hardly "untested" either - I guarantee there are more anecdotes backing up "the RAW is shit, these fixes more or less work" than there are "the RAW is fine, stop complaining", so you have no leg to stand on as far as "well my game did it and we were okay" is concerned. If you have accepted the fact that the rules-as-written are broken shit - and I will emphasise again that you have been arguing that they are not for literally months against overwhelming consensus from everyone under the fucking sun; including the devs who fucking wrote them - please consider taking into account that people other than you might conceivably know what they are talking about.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
I hear, as if from the stygian depths, a faint echo...
don't fuck with perfects until you've fixed lethality
Though if you use something like the 2.5 combo rules(freeform combo's, no wp cost) you should probably remove the second 2d stunt. Unless you're using the charm costs, in which case I guess it might help balance it out more?
- Location
- Spain
Well, although Vicky vs the World (173th Edition) is kinda amusing, maybe we could discuss a more interesting topic?
Namely, i would like to see Exalted rules streamlined for Quests. Maybe starting with the rules MJ12 did for Cowls, adapted to the setting?
Now, i think having charms that you have to learn one by one, each giving a limited mechanical effect isn't a good format for quests. They don't have enough narrative strenght to be interesting in themselves.
So, maybe something like a sphere-like measure of how good you are in certain areas (Like, a measure of how much adorjani essence you have, or how good a Solar meleeist you are) that you can use for appropiately themed stunts?
Namely, i would like to see Exalted rules streamlined for Quests. Maybe starting with the rules MJ12 did for Cowls, adapted to the setting?
Now, i think having charms that you have to learn one by one, each giving a limited mechanical effect isn't a good format for quests. They don't have enough narrative strenght to be interesting in themselves.
So, maybe something like a sphere-like measure of how good you are in certain areas (Like, a measure of how much adorjani essence you have, or how good a Solar meleeist you are) that you can use for appropiately themed stunts?
Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
Dice mechanics in Quests are ridiculous anyway. Just remove every Charm that has "fudges with the diceroll engine in some specific way" from the Charmset. Focus all Charms as those which do the following:
1: Allow the character to perform an action they couldn't perform before.
2: Allow the character to perform an action in a way they couldn't before.
3: Allow the character to bypass a limitation on an action they could perform before.
That will make each Charm interesting. So a Charm for "I conjure transparent walls of force" is okay but one which is "I am one die better at crafting" is not. Charms which allow you to use a sword without actually owning a sword or which allow you to sword an enemy out of sword range would also be fine.
Those create interesting idea for WHAT you can do, not just adjust minor probability tricks.
1: Allow the character to perform an action they couldn't perform before.
2: Allow the character to perform an action in a way they couldn't before.
3: Allow the character to bypass a limitation on an action they could perform before.
That will make each Charm interesting. So a Charm for "I conjure transparent walls of force" is okay but one which is "I am one die better at crafting" is not. Charms which allow you to use a sword without actually owning a sword or which allow you to sword an enemy out of sword range would also be fine.
Those create interesting idea for WHAT you can do, not just adjust minor probability tricks.
Amusingly enough, I would actually recommend that my Fast Demon Rules might be a good starting point. The Fast Demon Rules are basically built to strip each demon species down to its core to make it as easy to run as possible. Hence, their dicepools are defined in terms of Styles (so the ST just has to remember the general theme and style of the demon), their pools are all fast calculated and automated with built-in Excellency spend, they have no non-health trackable traits, and they only have 1-2 Charm which are there to do defining things about the species . For example, farissya are cavalry that aren't obstructed by wetlands or vegetation, and they have a fear-causing charge - which tells a player that they want to summon them to be heavy cavalry in dense or wet terrain.
(That's much like what @Aaron Peori suggests, really - only take the distinctive Charms.)
- Location
- Spain
Yeah i agree with that. Then again, even a lot of the iconic charms (Say, GSNF) are ultimately dice adders. Like, not completely (GSNF let's you fuck up people in heavy armor easy) but still.
Ultimately, i would want a conflict resolution system that only requires one-to-three rolls per update to work. You have a relevant Atribute+Style dicepool, that you can improve with a stunt and an applicable charm/combo (granting x extra dice (Or maybe successes) depending of it's potence.
Nah, you'd just fuse some of GSNF's upgrades into it. I'd go for either Radiant Fury Dissolution or Cold Fire Desolation Brand as the "core" part of GSNF, depending on what you want from it. So it's either a perma-killer-through-ten-thousand-years-of-torment thing, or a radiation sickness thing.
greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
I'd go with the radiation sickness personally, green fire that burns and sickens you from the get go is a lot cooler than just another spirit killing charm.
- Location
- NYC
I would crib from Godbound: go with Words and Gifts. Words are generic "here's a category that I'm supernaturally awesome at and can pull off any E1 (or maybe low E2) style Charm." Gifts are more powerful distinct feats a character can perform, and are grouped into Lesser Gifts (E2-E3) and Greater Gifts (E4-E5), with Greater Gifts being harder to obtain and more expensive.
So a Solar might have Words in Melee and Athletics, giving them the capability to cut through arrows and fight off twenty opponents by theirself along with jumping twenty feet and lifting multiple oxes, but if they want to conjure a magical sword, cut through light, or swim through lava, they'll have to pick up Gifts.
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- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I too would advise stealing from Godbound.
- Location
- Somewhere in the vicinity of Houston
This was part of the problem with first edition, wasn't it? That you could regen motes faster than you lost them, meaning that a fight between two optimally built combat characters would literally never end.
Roadie
A plate full of blins and a cat nearby.
"Autodefenestration" is the proper word for it, thanks.Self-defenestration is a little extreme, isn't it?(It's an amusing gif, though. Heh.)
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It was part of the problem, but yes.
The other part was that due to the way you could stack persistent defenses on yourself like no tomorrow, there was a big chance that no attack would ever get through your defenses.
- Location
- New York City
I remember when I first heard of the idea of Exalted Modern, I was very dismissive. Now I was just actually reading it, and it tickles. Fun idea they had there, and they ran with it in a fun way.
The primary problem is that Modern was never really intended to be what it was billed as, and simply ended up being the World of Darkness but with different types of magical superhumans.
I also hold a bit of a grudge for sapping all the conceptual-joy out of Lunars and Alchemicals in the process.
I also hold a bit of a grudge for sapping all the conceptual-joy out of Lunars and Alchemicals in the process.
Warning: Warning
warning
@vicky_molokh has been banned from the thread; do not address him, as he can no longer reply. Thank you, and please have a productive (or at least minimally vitriolic) discussion.
I think the other problem is that Exalted doesn't really fit the World of Darkness as it were. In the o/nWoD, every splat has a reason to hide from the prying eyes of humans. Vampires are limited by their moral fortitude in sunlight, and many of them are rather immoral, which means that if they get found out, 20 guys with pitchforks and torches can fuck them up, let alone a special ops kill-team with flashbangs and flamethrowers. Werewolves are furry terrorists from hell who, if they were open and notorious about it, would be significantly more vulnerable because they can't use their standard deep-striking combat tactics, and Crinos form is hella dangerous but again, vulnerable to 20 guys with flashbangs and silver bullets. Mages literally can't do their most impressive things when in the eyes of humans. I am pretty sure Demons had a restriction on their Apocalyptic Forms as well.
nWoD is much the same. Humans make magic harder, vampires are just as vulnerable to being set on fire, werewolves are just as vulnerable to being shanked if they can't do their super-terrorism, Demons are on the run from The God Machine which will hurt them if they show up openly, Prometheans make humans hate them, I don't know enough about Changeling...
Compare to Exalted where you really don't care much about mortals and can openly and notoriously use and abuse your powers as you see fit.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Changelings aren't that incentivized to hide from humans, from what I recall- it's been a half-decade since I played. They automatically do, but they can pact with them to give the humans full ability to perceive the supernatural and both sides can reap a lot of benefits from it- it's not a standard but they definitely have a powerset that supports it, and one of the easier ways to get a powerful ally as a changeling is to pact with someone to make them rich, get them promoted, whatever. Mostly changelings need to hide from the Gentry, who would find it a lot easier to track them down if they make waves and can generally be treated as having both off the charts personal power and an endless supply of disposable brainwashed changeling minions to send out when they aren't around personally.
Though a good fraction of changelings find a man with a knife to be a credible threat and they're broadly characterized as PTSD sufferers who hate what they've become, so as a general rule they're not eager to let people know about the supernatural in the first place. If they can get past that changelings are quite good at being social creatures, so long as they don't become noticed or prominent enough to draw True Fae down on them. So they are less incentivized to hide from humans and more to hide in general.
A serious contrast with exalts, who love their Cult ratings, regardless.
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