"At some point" is future Homura and co's problem. Probably post-Walpurgisnacht Homura and co's problem. No need to spill the beans on this trip, though.

EDIT: Oh, you were talking about KirikaMom possibly telling SayakaMom about that. Eh, we'll come to it when it happens, and it's sure to be quite entertaining.
While your edit is a good thing to be concerned about, I actually meant that Sayaka's mom would probably get curious about what we were 'tutoring' her daughter in, and that if she found out about magic, which our good friend here
Bringing in Sayaka mom or any of the moms except Kirika mom is just asking for trouble at this point and if by any chance magic is spill on the beach trip, Homura and crew gonna have problem they don't need to deal with now with only two weeks left to the endgame.
acknowledges is a possibility, it'd be much more damaging for opsec because she can tell Madoka's and Hitomi's parents; whereas Kirika's mom has no other moms she could have told about her daughter's magical girl-ness.
I meant passing her off as the Mikuni household servant as her primary vocation, and not a superpowered ghost summoned to Murder Death Kill for the Holy Grail.
That's what I meant as well. She brings us tea and snacks whenever we go over, she does the grocery shopping, and she keeps the place neat and clean up to and including doing the laundry and making her master's bed. What, you mean to tell me that the Mikuni's hired help is actually some kinda heroic spirit fighting in a clandestine battle between godless magicians for an omnipotent wish-granting device?
I'd think that to be better than trying to pass off Lancer as Oriko's legal guardian when she has her Uncle around; if he caught whiff of that, he'd probably snoop where he really shouldn't snoop, or demand answers from Oriko. Hired help is easier to pass off as something Oriko's father did at some point, at least at first glance.
Refer to
try selling Lancer and Berserker as Kirika's parents (since Oriko's parents are high-profile corpses)
Emphasis added. That was my other option for Lancer. Nothing in there about her being Oriko's guardian.
 
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Sticking to Archer as the legal guardian would be the best. If not Berserker or Rider. Bringing in Sayaka mom or any of the moms except Kirika mom is just asking for trouble at this point and if by any chance magic is spill on the beach trip, Homura and crew gonna have problem they don't need to deal with now with only two weeks left to the endgame.
The problem with bringing Berserker or Rider is that they're an unknown factor to the parents of Madoka, Sayaka, and Hitomi. At least with Archer they've met him (or just eaten his food in SayakaMom's case), but introducing two unknown people that are definitely not their respective Masters' guardians is going to cause them concern (Kirika still has a parent and Berserker is European to Kirika's Japanese features; Rider's also European, and trying to pass him off as Kyoko's guardian isn't going to do too much good considering these parents aren't aware of Kyoko in the first place).
While your edit is a good thing to be concerned about, I actually meant that Sayaka's mom would probably get curious about what we were 'tutoring' her daughter in, and that if she found out about magic, which our good friend here

acknowledges is a possibility, it'd be much more damaging for opsec because she can tell Madoka's and Hitomi's parents; whereas Kirika's mom has no other moms she could have told about her daughter's magical girl-ness.
They'll be tutored by Archer under the guise of him helping them on their class projects, and they can't exactly verify if what info they're telling their parents came from Archer or their own studies anyways; it helps that a lot of what they're covering stems from historical "fiction" in the first place, like Homura's own project on King Arthur, so Archer will have plenty to talk about to placate their parents. They aren't going to practice when SayakaMom could catch them anyways; that's what Assassin's for after all, with her Presence Concealment to alert Homura of SayakaMom's (and prob KirikaMom's) presence. Also, since you're going to ask, we obviously can't leave Assassin in Mitakihara by herself with her disposition and prompensity of getting touchy-feely with Homura.

As for KirikaMom telling SayakaMom, when the trip comes around (after Elsa Maria's defeated), we'll have Oriko and Kirika press KirikaMom to secrecy, under threat of the usual Moonlit World spiel.
That's what I meant as well. She brings us tea and snacks whenever we go over, she does the grocery shopping, and she keeps the place neat and clean up to and including doing the laundry and making her master's bed. What, you mean to tell me that the Mikuni's hired help is actually some kinda heroic spirit fighting in a clandestine battle between godless magicians for an omnipotent wish-granting device?

Refer to

Emphasis added. That was my other option for Lancer. Nothing in there about her being Oriko's guardian.
Oh, my bad. In any case, KirikaMom will prob be invited, so passing Lancer and Berserker as Kirika's parents would be rude.

I'm just trying to fish for more interesting (and underutilized) character interactions; blame yourself for writing them too good and giving them interesting personalities (x.x). /s
 
Rider's also European, and trying to pass him off as Kyoko's guardian isn't going to do too much good considering these parents aren't aware of Kyoko in the first place).
Not to mention that Kyouko wouldn't take kindly to us trying to present Rider as her guardian, on account of it disrespecting the memory of her real family, or something like that.
Also, since you're going to ask, we obviously can't leave Assassin in Mitakihara by herself with her disposition and prompensity of getting touchy-feely with Homura.
Oh, I wasn't going to ask. But that's going to be awkward for Madoka to have to sit there and watch while we let some other girl touch us.
I'm just trying to fish for more interesting (and underutilized) character interactions; blame yourself for writing them too good and giving them interesting personalities (x.x). /s
Absolutely nothing wrong with that.I admit to being stumped on how to really get into Sayakamom's head-words, but I've been itching to bring Kirika's mom into the fold. As I said earlier, it'd be nice for the team to have someone that's unaffiliated with all the shit going on that they can go to to talk about magic problems.
 
[X] Plan Destroy Elsa Maria's Arts & Crafts Project

Because you think she'd be a god match for Hitomi, or because it would be funny/the memes?
Because it would be funny. Would she be a good match for Hitomi? Probably not, but it's not like something like that ever stopped canon Masters from forcing a summon using a catalyst[1] anyway. Without a catalyst, though, I doubt that Hitomi "Instantly Finds The Lead On The Witch Without Understanding Much About Magic" Shizuki could summon a more fitting Saber than Sherlock Holmes.

[1] I am sure that Satomi Kaede would lend us her smutty fanfiction if we ask nicely and promise not to criticise it too harshly.
 
Without a catalyst, though, I doubt that Hitomi "Instantly Finds The Lead On The Witch Without Understanding Much About Magic" Shizuki could summon a more fitting Saber than Sherlock Holmes.
I think you're misinterpreting the sequence of events here. She didn't "instantly find the lead on the witch" in either instance. For the Church, she got a funny feeling looking at their flyer and looked them up online. Then, without telling us and without knowing they were involved in dark magic (this happened before we knew it was specifically a witch involved, mind you) she went to one of their meetings to see what the fuss was all about, because she thought she might learn something that could help us out. And for Assassin, all she did was find a common thread between the disappeared victims (they all lived or worked around and frequented the same bar that Reika used to pick up her victims at). We didn't know that Assassin was involved in that either until Archer did some digging and found out that Reika was Assassin's familiar. And for Alina, all she did was Google her name and give us whatever came up on the front page.

None of her investigations required her to know anything about magic, because all she was doing was gathering for us information that we could have found ourselves if she hadn't taken the initiative first. I don't disagree that Sherlock would be a good fit for her based on the evidence, but I also think you're exaggerating her own role and performance in all this.

EDIT: I also don't entirely understand how Sherlock Holmes could qualify as a Saber. Is it because of this line from his bio?
If necessary, he would defeat it. With the sharp blade called the truth.
Because that's kind of a stretch for me. I could believe, if you stretch the qualifying blade of Saber to include the surgical scalpel, that Dr. Joseph Bell, Doyle's mentor and the inspiration behind Holmes, would qualify, but I don't see it for the fictional Holmes. If someone could explain this for me, I'd be very appreciative.

I am sure that Satomi Kaede would lend us her smutty fanfiction if we ask nicely and promise not to criticise it too harshly.
She'd never let us. It's way too smutty, and the most recent stuff also involves us joining in. Nor is Tart the only famous dead girl she's written smut about.
I'm also not sure that smutty fanfiction would count as an adequate catalyst, but that's clearly the less important reason why she wouldn't let us borrow them.
 
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You guys are going to be waiting awhile for the next post, so while you wait I want to hear your thoughts on who you think is a good fit for Hitomi, since that's what we're apparently gunning for. If you know your Fate well enough, that's great, you're halfway there! If not, you've got a handy-dandy list of all the Saber servants available for review here.

In competition for the slot of Saber is Cú Chulainn for Bazett and Miyamoto Musashi for Miyuki, so don't pick either of them if you can help it.

For Hitomi, I think Jeanne, Charlemagne. Jeanne is pretty much the Vanilla to any decent character who posses good alignment as a character. She also posses decent maturity as a person and I thinks her character would be something Hitomi would want to emulate and learn from.

For Charlemagne, aside from his knightly believe, he is someone that would fit Hitomi attempt to broaden her horizon and Charlemagne as a person is very tolerable of others due to how his personality of his knights.
 
EDIT: I also don't entirely understand how Sherlock Holmes could qualify as a Saber. Is it because of this line from his bio?
Because that's kind of a stretch for me. I could believe, if you stretch the qualifying blade of Saber to include the surgical scalpel, that Dr. Joseph Bell, Doyle's mentor and the inspiration behind Holmes, would qualify, but I don't see it for the fictional Holmes. If someone could explain this for me, I'd be very appreciative.
He qualifies as a Saber because the Nasu gods say it as so; it is directly noted that his alternate classes, when not summoned as a Ruler, are Saber, Archer, and Caster. How does he qualify as a Saber? I haven't a clue. Maybe he'll get a conceptual blade that has to do with "revealing the truth of things", such as by hitting something or someone with his blade he obtains information about them? It would technically be invaluable in most Grail Wars by revealing the true names of other Servants and granting information about their Noble Phantasms without them being used.
For Hitomi, I think Jeanne, Charlemagne. Jeanne is pretty much the Vanilla to any decent character who posses good alignment as a character. She also posses decent maturity as a person and I thinks her character would be something Hitomi would want to emulate and learn from.
I definitely agree with you that Jeanne would be a good pick for Hitomi's Saber, but that depends on her not being summoned as Ruler in the event of an Apocrypha occuring - an Apocrypha might already be underway anyways for all we know, considering Caster thinks another Servant dealt the final blow to Assassin. Guess we'll find out sooner or later.
For Charlemagne, aside from his knightly believe, he is someone that would fit Hitomi attempt to broaden her horizon and Charlemagne as a person is very tolerable of others due to how his personality of his knights.
... eh, this one's a bit of a stretch. Their personalities don't really match up at all, nor do their interests align. It's also specifically noted that Charlemagne wasn't very tolerable about Astolfo. That's even if Charlemagne is even able to be summoned due to his real life counterpart's legend far outclassing his own, unless the Greater Grail is messing with things in the background to specifically summon Charlemagne.
 
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I definitely agree with you that Jeanne would be a good pick for Hitomi's Saber, but that depends on her not being summoned as Ruler in the event of an Apocrypha occuring - an Apocrypha might already be underway anyways for all we know, considering Caster thinks another Servant dealt the final blow to Assassin. Guess we'll find out sooner or later.

The Ruler class may not necessary be Jeanne. Martha could just be Ruler that was summon.
 
The Ruler class may not necessary be Jeanne. Martha could just be Ruler that was summon.
Yep. The point I was trying to make is that there's a likely chance Jeanne won't be summoned as Saber due to her status as one of the few known summonable Rulers. Heck, Holmes could be Ruler (though I doubt it considering SVS' lack of immediate knowledge of the Servant). Just bringing up the possibility. :)
 
I definitely agree with you that Jeanne would be a good pick for Hitomi's Saber, but that depends on her not being summoned as Ruler in the event of an Apocrypha occuring - an Apocrypha might already be underway anyways for all we know, considering Caster thinks another Servant dealt the final blow to Assassin. Guess we'll find out sooner or later
The Ruler class may not necessary be Jeanne. Martha could just be Ruler that was summon.
Yep. The point I was trying to make is that there's a likely chance Jeanne won't be summoned as Saber due to her status as one of the few known summonable Rulers. Heck, Holmes could be Ruler (though I doubt it considering SVS' lack of immediate knowledge of the Servant). Just bringing up the possibility.

It won't be Holmes, neither as Saber nor Ruler, but not because I'm unfamiliar with him. He won't be a Saber because I can't see the justification of him being a Saber- Though as I said, Dr. Joseph Bell, Doyle's mentor and inspiration for Holmes, may be a Saber that fits the same bill as Holmes, I won't say; nor will Holmes be a Ruler because he isn't someone that I can see as having interesting neutral interactions with both parties of a predominantly puella magi-focused Grail War. Jehanne Tart as Ruler? That's a possibility because she was puella magi herself, once, so she knows the system and would doubtless have an interesting perspective to lend to both sides in an Apocrypha. She also might be the Saber, for the exact same reason. Amakusa Shirou Tokisada? That's a possibility because the Incubator's system is essentially the Third Magic applied at an individual level, and given his plan for his own Apocrypha the interactions between him and the end result of materialization of the soul would be very interesting. Martha as Ruler? That's a possibility because it would be interesting to see how she reconciles Mitakihara being split between the dead Sakura branch of Christianity, Caren as a twisted representation of the Church, and Oriko as the only real practicing Christian in the city. Or maybe I've got ideas for a custom Ruler who was designed from the ground-up to take advantage of the possible interactions available in Mitakihara, and it's nobody we're familiar with. Maybe the Apocrypha won't even have a Ruler, given that there is as of yet no Grail being fought over.

But to have Holmes as the Ruler of a possible Apocrypha, or as the Saber servant of our inquisitive magical super sleuth Hitomi, the best way to pull that off, in my opinion, would be from his perspective as he unravels the mystery behind Mitakihara's Grail War, which is at odds with our already-stated objective of fixing the broken people that are our main characters.
 
An interesting thing you could do is have the saber be sayaka or kyouko, possibly instead of one of the current ones one of the previous timelines, maybe one where walpurgisnacht was finished off by them but madoka didnt survive
 
An interesting thing you could do is have the saber be sayaka or kyouko, possibly instead of one of the current ones one of the previous timelines, maybe one where walpurgisnacht was finished off by them but madoka didnt survive
Saber-class Sayaka would literally be Heroic Spirit MIKI. I'd do it, too.
 
Day 31 Chapter 6
[X] Plan Destroy Elsa Maria's Arts & Crafts Project



"Archer, report. It's been all afternoon and I haven't heard anything from either you or Assassin. How is the search going?"

"Not too well, I'm afraid to say. It sounds unbelievable, but neither Assassin nor myself have managed to find any of the witch's emblems, no matter where we looked."


Archer is right; that does sound unbelievable. "You're not looking hard enough. They have to be around somewhere, or else the witch won't be able to manifest its familiars in the real world." This is basic information that you learned first-hand the night you extracted Sister Hope for the witch's clutches. The familiars need depictions of the sunburst emblem in order to manifest in this world. They have to be around this city, somewhere.

"I'll find Assassin and tell her that we're doing another sweep, if you want. But I don't know how much more successful we'll be the second time."

"Concentrate your search near the river. We know that the witch is due to rise somewhere at the river, so the closer to the river that you and Assassin search, the more likely it is that you'll find something. I'm sure of it."

"Maybe you should ask Tomoe to rub her magic lamp and see if her little golden genie would be willing to shoot us some search advice?"


"Ah, Akemi-san; they have one!" What perfect timing. Just as you have a need of Tomoe-san, she calls for you, pointing to a necklace that fits your desired specifications. "I had to ask the jeweler, but he does have one that's what you're looking for." You make your way over to where Tomoe-san is standing, leaning in to get a better look at the piece she's selected. The color of the metal is somewhere between silver and a very pale gold, with a heart design that splits into two half-hearts when worn as separate necklaces.

But the price, at well over 20,000¥, is a far cry more than you think you should spend at the moment, especially after your new swimsuit and the reading material for Sayaka and Hitomi. Maybe if you offer to sell one of your Beretta pistols to Kure Kirika, she can convince Mikuni Oriko to lend her the funds, and you can use that as the extra spending money you'd need to buy it. You'll have to give to give some serious thought to whether or not the asking price is worth it. "Tomoe-san, I have something I need from Caster, if he'd be willing to assist."

"I can convey your message, but you know how he is."

"Right. I have Archer and Assassin out looking for places where the witch's sunburst emblems might be hidden, but Archer reports that neither he nor Assassin have found any. I was hoping if Caster could tell us where to look; or if not, even just telling us whether there are any or not would be enough."


While you wait for Tomoe-san to relay your request to Caster, you find yourself drifting back to the paired necklace. It's quite expensive, but money has never been a problem for you since your father left you with a sizeable inheritance; and it's a gift for Madoka, so price is a secondary concern compared to the value you would receive from it, but there is always the chance that your relationship will not last, if this timeline ends as all the others have. But if it doesn't last, then what does it matter how much you spend on Madoka now?

"I have good news, and bad news."
Good news is better than you had expected, but bad news is always worse than what you're hoping to hear. "Caster says that there are emblems of the witch spread throughout the city, and that if they can be found they can be destroyed. However..."

"It's easier said than done, right?"

"Exactly. According to him, they are far too small and far too numerous for even Archer's eyes to find them all, if indeed he is lucky enough to even find one."

"I take it Caster didn't say why they were so hard to find?"

"That's correct. But at least you can tell Archer that he isn't wrong. They do exist, but he and Assassin must not be looking in the right places. Either their net is too wide, or too narrow, to catch anything, but I'm afraid I can't say which it is."

"That's fine.
So asking Caster, while not a bust, still didn't give you quite what you were hoping for. You'll have to think of another option, one that can aid your two servants in their search, someone like "Mikuni Oriko, I need to borrow Lancer for the afternoon?"

Mikuni Oriko tears herself away from the engagement ring case she and Kure Kirika had been pouring over, shifting her focus to you before remembering that your words didn't come from your mouth. She returns to the case to continue perusing with her beloved, but responds to you with "That's an unusual request, isn't it? Might I ask what for?"

"I currently have Archer and Assassin out looking for places where someone under the witch's control might have put up the sunburst emblem its familiars need to manifest. They've been unsuccessful, but according to Tomoe-san Caster says that they do exist, despite the difficulty they've had finding them, though he also says they're small and easy to miss. I was hoping that, by having Lancer join their search party, her Berkano rune might make the search go quicker."

"Ah, I understand. Yes, I"ll tell Lancer to link up with them right away."

"Thank you. I'll inform Archer right away."
As you contemplate the necklace you wish to buy for Madoka, you have one last thing to say to Mikuni Oriko, who despite your conversation with you has not slowed at all from her perusal of engagement rings with Kure Kirika. "I hope that one day, this country will recognize same-sex marriages. Then all of us can be happy together with our loved ones."

"So do I, Akemi-san. You and Kaname-san deserve all the happiness in the world."




"... I've asked Mikuni Oriko to send Lancer over to assist you and Assassin in your search, so hopefully with a third set of eyes and the aid of her Berkano rune, the hunt will go that much quicker."

"Well?" Assassin asks you, her tone flat, her body language distant; not at all the way she looks or sounds when her hands are on your master. "What does our master have to say?"

"She says it's a mixed bag we've got. According to her, and according to Caster, there are sunburst emblems we've been missing. But, the reason we've been missing them is because they're small, and are either in locations that are hard to spot or the emblems themselves are too small to spot at a distance." Apparently, they're either small enough or well-hidden enough as to completely evade your hawk's eye and Assassin's careful scrutiny. "She's asked Mikuni to send Lancer in to help out with the search, so hopefully this'll go that much quicker once she gets here." You aren't sure what sort of history Assassin and Lancer shared, but their initial reactions upon meeting that first night were mixed, to put it mildly. Quickly, you add "I hope working alongside her won't be too much of an issue, given your past histories. As much as I dislike her master, Lancer has so far been a useful and helpful ally to have on hand, so I'd like it if you two could work together despite your differences."

"I have no problems working with Lancer," Assassin responds. "If she has problems working with me, then she will have to learn that my current master is not my previous master, and overcome any issues she may have with me on her own."

"Right." You're confident that your master has already asked Assassin about her previous master; you'll have to get the story from her when this is all over. "We'll try to get started on our second search before Lancer arrives. If you check along the banks of the river and by the train tracks-" Given that the witch is appearing at the river, it's logical to assume that it might have its emblems placed along the city's leylines "-then I'll search the old Church and the warehouse park where we've stashed their former emissary."

Assassin nods, asking "Then what shall we do when Lancer arrives?"

With a whispered chant, "I am the bone of my sword," you Trace the sword that once belonged to Achilles' father. You used it to keep track of the former, false Assassin when she vanished into the fog, and your hope is that it will help you to find something again now. "That'll be up to what our master wants."

"Understood," Assassin says, vanishing into the air as her Presence Concealment takes effect.

[Archer] Wat do?
[Homura] Wat do?​
 
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[X] Plan Hunting Season
-[X] (Archer) Notify Assassin and Lancer (via your Master to her own) that when the first glyph is found, that they not destroy it. When one is found, you'll go to it, project Hrunting as a regular sword, and have it pick up the glyph's magical scent by destroying it with the blade. Keep the Sword of Peleus on hand to help bolster your hunting efforts while you track down more glyphs with Hrunting.
--[X] If it's feasible and Lancer and/or Assassin agrees, project another Hrunting for either of them to use on this hunt after you cut down a second/third glyph with the weapon(s) to pick up the glyph's scent, if it works in the first place that is
-[X] (Homura) Buy the necklace; you'll just time-stop and steal some money from the local Yakuza after Elsa Maria's been dealt with
--[X] When everyone's done shopping, return to Mami's apartment with everyone else. You're open to any other suggestions of what to do before then, though, if anyone wants to do anything in particular while you're here.

Oh look, another situation where Rule Breaker could roflstomp the whole thing. I wonder what this quest would look like if you didn't ban stuff; either things would get ridiculously more difficult or the quest would be a breeze I'm guessing (obviously if you had balance in mind, it'd be the former). xD

Also Homura both stated that she doesn't have the funds but also has the funds to buy the necklace, basically. Going to vote more vaguely in response.

I would think Hrunting could pick up the magical scent of a glyph if it manages to destroy one; not sure if they could make a dent in the amount of glyphs around the city though.

Anything else I'm missing for this vote, anyone? Any other ideas to add to it?

EDIT: Homura's stolen from the Yakuza before, and she'll do it again. Just instead of weapons she's going to steal some money instead.
 
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Oh look, another situation where Rule Breaker could roflstomp the whole thing. I wonder what this quest would look like if you didn't ban stuff; either things would get ridiculously more difficult or the quest would be a breeze I'm guessing (obviously if you had balance in mind, it'd be the former). xD
If we were allowed to use Rulebreaker, then we'd be facing down bosses even more difficult than they are right now, because I'd have to build witches in such a conceptual way that they didn't die instantly upon being Rulebroken. In short, it'd be a nightmare.

Also Homura both stated that she doesn't have the funds but also has the funds to buy the necklace, basically. Going to vote more vaguely in response.
I was eating dinner when I wrote a large chunk of this post. If I messed up the logic of something, it's because I was more focused on eating than I was on what I was typing. Though, I think at the time what I was trying to say was that, while Homura has the funds to afford it, after the rest of the day's spending she's leery to spend more without some way to recoup the loss, especially when she'd be spending way more on this than on everything else she bought. I think. That was probably my logic at the point of typing.

EDIT: Assuming that was the logic I typed with, I've edited my post to reflect that the price is more than Homura thinks she should spend in light of the day's previous purchases. I hope it's cleared that up some.
 
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'throughout the city' bodes well. :confused: But it begs the question of just 'what' the marks actually are. They're not things that just magically manifest out of nowhere, right? So there should be some way they spreaded around. Well, I'm probably mis-interpreting this.

[X] Plan Hunting Season

@Enetious maybe there's some under the river as well? I don't know.
 
I was eating dinner when I wrote a large chunk of this post. If I messed up the logic of something, it's because I was more focused on eating than I was on what I was typing. Though, I think at the time what I was trying to say was that, while Homura has the funds to afford it, after the rest of the day's spending she's leery to spend more without some way to recoup the loss, especially when she'd be spending way more on this than on everything else she bought. I think. That was probably my logic at the point of typing.

EDIT: Assuming that was the logic I typed with, I've edited my post to reflect that the price is more than Homura thinks she should spend in light of the day's previous purchases. I hope it's cleared that up some.
Edited in that Homura will buy the necklace, but will steal from the Yakuza after Elsa Maria's been dealt with. It's been noted that she's stolen weapons from the Yakuza before (notably in earlier timelines), so she'll know plenty of places where they're located. Stealing money from them should be a breeze, even if Homura has to put a safe or two in her shield to do so.
'throughout the city' bodes well. :confused: But it begs the question of just 'what' the marks actually are. They're not things that just magically manifest out of nowhere, right? So there should be some way they spreaded around. Well, I'm probably mis-interpreting this.

[X] Plan Hunting Season

@Enetious maybe there's some under the river as well? I don't know.
They shouldn't magically manifest out of nowhere; at least that's what I'm hoping. I'm guessing Elsa Maria has been enthralling people to draw a bunch of iconography since Alina was captured. There's probably nothing at the bottom of the river, unless she enthralled a metalsmith or something to make something and drop it in there. It's probably just a bunch of tiny pictures drawn and painted across the city.
 
They shouldn't magically manifest out of nowhere; at least that's what I'm hoping. I'm guessing Elsa Maria has been enthralling people to draw a bunch of iconography since Alina was captured. There's probably nothing at the bottom of the river, unless she enthralled a metalsmith or something to make something and drop it in there. It's probably just a bunch of tiny pictures drawn and painted across the city.
Now, here's a devil's advocate question- What do we do if, despite our best efforts, we still aren't able to find them? Or we find them, but for one reason or another are completely incapable of doing anything about them? Do we have a plan for if what we think is impossible should somehow become possible, thanks to the witch just being that bullshit? Or at that point do we shrug our shoulders and hope that our training was for the best come battle time?
 
Now, here's a devil's advocate question- What do we do if, despite our best efforts, we still aren't able to find them? Or we find them, but for one reason or another are completely incapable of doing anything about them? Do we have a plan for if what we think is impossible should somehow become possible, thanks to the witch just being that bullshit? Or at that point do we shrug our shoulders and hope that our training was for the best come battle time?
Not much we could do if we can't find all the iconography before Elsa Maria arises other than continue on with the original plan, where Homura time-stops with people to mop up and stragglers while grief dampened. Might have to bring more people into time-stop though, considering how many there are, presumably.

If there's any iconography that they can't destroy, Archer just has to imagine something that can.

EDIT: For stuff that they can destroy but probably shouldn't, we'll come to that when it happens. What we do will depend on the situation after all.
 
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Check Sewers using some sort of remote vision, check under the water in the river itself, check from above and see if the symbol is somehow a design in the layout of the city's roadways or buildings, check if the symbol is spread apart as pieces (the center here, all of the 'spikes' of the sunburst on the buildings adjacent), check if the Crosses in the city have somehow started accumulating Mana (Elsa Maria changing her symbol at the last minute?) , check if the symbol only appears in the dark due to glowing invisible paint schenanigans... There's a lot of ways that this thing can be hidden that even Servants would have difficulty with.
 
Check Sewers using some sort of remote vision, check under the water in the river itself, check from above and see if the symbol is somehow a design in the layout of the city's roadways or buildings, check if the symbol is spread apart as pieces (the center here, all of the 'spikes' of the sunburst on the buildings adjacent), check if the Crosses in the city have somehow started accumulating Mana (Elsa Maria changing her symbol at the last minute?) , check if the symbol only appears in the dark due to glowing invisible paint schenanigans... There's a lot of ways that this thing can be hidden that even Servants would have difficulty with.
We have some methods of finding the symbols. Just trying to spot them by eyesight, even with Archer's, isn't viable as stated by Caster. There's just too many and they're too small to locate through such a method. Elsa Maria probably can't change her symbol, since the symbol in of itself is symbolic of Elsa Maria. Unless she changes her nature, she's stuck with the same symbol, probably. Invisible paint and anything like that won't be a problem since they exude magical energy regardless and we have methods of finding them beyond just by sight.
 
Invisible paint and anything like that won't be a problem since they exude magical energy regardless and we have methods of finding them beyond just by sight.
Do they? Because I remember here you said
No, a thousand times no. Just no. Firstly, the item doesn't have Magic Circuits, it's a catalyst for the Witch's influence to spread, like any iconography of the Church. Without the Witch, that item is powerless, as it's allowing a Mystery to occur that allows the Witch's influence to spread into the Material.

You can think of this item as more of a totem, which calls upon the power of a specific entity without having any thaumaturgical effects in and of itself.
in regards to the non-magical nature of Sister Hope's rosary necklace. Wouldn't the same hold true for any emblems we're trying to find here, meaning that we wouldn't be able to find them through a magic backtrace if they were painted in invisible paint?

Which of you is the correct you?
 
Do they? Because I remember here you said

in regards to the non-magical nature of Sister Hope's rosary necklace. Wouldn't the same hold true for any emblems we're trying to find here, meaning that we wouldn't be able to find them through a magic backtrace if they were painted in invisible paint?

Which of you is the correct you?
To clarify, the items and markings in question are wholly mundane and don't produce any Mana/Prana, however it acts as a gateway that can be used for the Witch who is channeling her own magical energy through them to spread her influence out from the "totems" in question. As long as she's using them to fuel her familiars' invulnerability, they'll more than likely possess a certain amount of magical energy being run through them. Obviously if she isn't around for the iconography to enact her being, there will be no magical energy running through them. That's why using them for building a Mystic Code will accomplish nothing but possibly giving the Witch access to whatever is created, nor can it be used for utilizing magical energy as the items and iconography don't produce anything themselves, but are supplied magical energy at the Witch's whim.
 
As long as she's using them to fuel her familiars' invulnerability, they'll more than likely possess a certain amount of magical energy being run through them.
But what if, as is the case right now, they aren't being use? The way I'm envisioning your description is in the manner of a door- The emblem is the door, opening outwards to grant the familiars intangibility in the real world. As long as the door is open, there's magical energy running through it. But if the door isn't open - that is to say, it's not being used by the witch or her familiars right now, and is just there as an image on a wall or carved into a little wooden necklace - is it still leaking magical energy even when it's not in use? Does the fact that it's connected to the witch mean it'll always leave a magical trace for as long as it's connected to the witch, even if it's not being used by the familiars right now?

In other words, is it always giving off a magical signature for as long as the icon is identified with the witch, or does it only give off a magical signature when it's actively being used?
 
But what if, as is the case right now, they aren't being use? The way I'm envisioning your description is in the manner of a door- The emblem is the door, opening outwards to grant the familiars intangibility in the real world. As long as the door is open, there's magical energy running through it. But if the door isn't open - that is to say, it's not being used by the witch or her familiars right now, and is just there as an image on a wall or carved into a little wooden necklace - is it still leaking magical energy even when it's not in use? Does the fact that it's connected to the witch mean it'll always leave a magical trace for as long as it's connected to the witch, even if it's not being used by the familiars right now?

In other words, is it always giving off a magical signature for as long as the icon is identified with the witch, or does it only give off a magical signature when it's actively being used?
That's up to how cunning the Witch is, however it is much easier to just leave the door open, is it not? I'm assuming that's the case considering she still is reaching out her influence to control her thralls, and let's not forget that she was actively doing so through Hitomi's rosary beads even after her familiars in the corporeal were destroyed.
 
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