- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
So WH40K humanity.
Cliches you can't stand
- Thread starter Mithras
- Start date
Dream Logic
An offseason swallow
- Location
- In transit
So WH40K humanity.
Eh...it really depends...honestly that's more then half of the races.
Not sure why but the Biel-Tan elder piss me off. I think it's because they give the impression that their haughtiness isn't even tempered by the whole 'lost the entire empire' thing.
This wraps around to another one. Dystopia that somehow functions despite having no ability to care for itself(are half of 40k imperium portrayals).
I really don't like it when the dystopia runs perfectly off suffering and stupidity even though everything logically should be broken down or where the society adds dystopia elements for its own sake.
I am happy and pleased if it's either contained to a smaller subset of people(the outer party party of 1984 is roughly 10% of the pop, most are gainfully employed in 'only' a totalitarian shithole) or implied that it actually is breaking down(also 1984 and Brazil being my favorite examples).
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Per the background, yes, but that makes it even worse. That even such a humanity is hyped in some novels and so on...So WH40K humanity.
Oh god, that problem in the ME fandom. Humanity is already getting ALL THE BREAKS, having an embassy basically immediately after first contact, rising to be a council power after just decades, out of nothing... and yet people still bitch about how dare other races/states be more powerful, why doesn't humanity just tell the Council to fuck off, and then al the AU fics where humanity is wanked and does... urrgh. People can't even take when humanity is doing merely very well for itself. It has to be the biggest, baddest out there. It's so disgusting.
And then the disdain for the asari in specific. The disbelief that a society could have a working direct democracy, while humanity doesn't. Yes, how dare humanity not have the best social order out there! Clearly that means the asari are either unrealistic or a marysuetopia (okay, I granted, them living 1000 years and all being biotics kinda push them into mary sue territory, but not their society) or decadent or whatever.
It's all just so... entitled and self-indulgent.
Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
- Location
- Firelink Shrine
BUT SUSANO YOU'RE A HUMAN DON'T YOU LIKE US WINNING?!?!?
FTFYSo WH40K races.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Not like humanity isn't a race in WH40KFTFY
But it applies to pretty much all the races in 40k. Orks, Eldar, 'Nids. It's misleading to act as if it sums up humanity and leave out everyone there's horrible.Not like humanity isn't a race in WH40K
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
just because everything else sucks doesn't mean humanity doesn't. If humanity wanted to be better then it wouldn't have been collectively fucking up for the past 10000+ years.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Hmmm...
"ignorant, superstitious, fanatical, bloodthirsty, genocidal, or just plain stupid."
Calling the Eldar ignorant or superstitious seems wrong to me. Even fanatical doesn't really hit the mark, and only the Dark Eldar are bloodthirsty. The Craftworld Eldar are just... detached. Willing to engage in genocide if it helps their plans, maybe, but not as a matter of ideological course.
And then there are the Tau, of course...
Plus, the often touted defence of "the other races are even worse, so we need the Imperium" misses the fact that the Imperium makes everything even worse, including defence against these other races.
I'd feel the Eldar and Tau are both fanatical in their own ideals, Eldar putting their fate in the afterlife above all else and Tau devoting themselves to the ethereal tau. I can see why others would consider either less than fanaticism though.
Oh, I'm definitely not trying to argue in defense of the Imperium or claim they're better than any alternative, just that acting like they're worse than the average faction in the setting is wrong.
Mechasaurian
Big Bossu
- Location
- Lost among fields of history
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The impression I get is that the Imperium is very inefficient when it comes to defense against the various nightmares of the 40K galaxy, as you would expect of a fascist theocratic totalitarian state that hates innovation and is rotting apart at the seams.
But...what's the alternative? "We need the Imperium because its dissolution/collapse would make things even worse and expose its citizens to Chaos and the Tyranids" seems reasonable to me. It sucks, but I'd support the Imperium given the standing of the galaxy in Mil41.
Mortis Nuntius
Theon Killjoy
- Location
- United Kingdom
I think all this hate for the Imperium ignores that there was not one but two golden ages of humanity which by no means were perfect but certainly came across as better than the alternative in every meaningful sense which were brought low by galaxy wrecking events powerful enough to tear literal holes in the universe undertaken by Gods trying to fuck humanity's shit up. Its best soldiers and statesmen are dead or missing, its God is a corpse and its faced with the logistics of fighting existence itself along with its more mundane enemies in a galaxy where in effect its every world for itself for months or years at a time.
Of course its a trainwreck. That its still in some semblance of existence and that there is some small flicker of hope that maybe just maybe the end can be prevented is impressive on its own.
I mean big blue's return at the darkest hour seems to hint that either the Universe is about to end or we might finally see a lasting victory. The Imperium needs to be seen as the product of thousands of years of disasters at its absolute low point rather than what even itself wants or tries to be.
Of course its a trainwreck. That its still in some semblance of existence and that there is some small flicker of hope that maybe just maybe the end can be prevented is impressive on its own.
I mean big blue's return at the darkest hour seems to hint that either the Universe is about to end or we might finally see a lasting victory. The Imperium needs to be seen as the product of thousands of years of disasters at its absolute low point rather than what even itself wants or tries to be.
Last edited:
Eh, I'm not entirely sure whether they do actually have that. The asari say they do, but considering what little we've seen of their governmental and social structure, there's enough there to make me skeptical that their system works as well and as cleanly as they claim it to.
But I do agree with your general point about why HFY is toxic, and especially the arrogance of human fanboys in the Mass Effect setting.
- Location
- Singapore
Ah, yes. that.
When the fic tells you that USA singlehandedly fights off the Batarian invasion, you got a problem....3
Who's talking about fanfics?
Man, I'm more unhappy about Hollywood trying to sell me on this idea.
Vyslanté
The self is a prison
- Location
- European Union
Well, I was more talking about books, but yeah. At least in Hollywood movies (and I'm talking about space-opera and assorted "it's 200 years in the future") it's not literally the US. It might be a system that looks like it, that acts like it and share a vague "western" philosphy — but at least they have the decency of pretending it's not just the US.
Except Stargate, I guess — though it's supposed to be set in our time.
Reveen
Castro-Trudeauist
The two are completely interchangable in 90% of cases and a very narrow slice at thaat. When most authors go HFY in stories they sure as shit not talking about black people in New Orleans or gay people in San Fran.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Well, I do think those things are connected, actually. Asari are supposed to have a working direct democracy? Well, clearly that is impossible and hence must be relativized in later installments with hints that in truth it's the Matriarchs which are in control.
Neeevermind the working fascist meritocracy of the turians and nobody complaining about that.
Same thing, really. Even beyond what @Reveen is saying, which is certainly true, "USA fuck yeah" is simply extended to the next higher level in HFY because now there are aliens. It's the same mechanism, really.
vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
"Do you believe? Do you accept the festival, the city, the joy? No? Then let me describe one more thing."
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It also allows you to sweep nationalistic disagreements under the rug.
"When faced with Aliens, the entire world, including China and Russia, all agree that America should take the lead and control everything because of how amazing they are, ending nationalism (except American nationalism) forever."
tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
- Location
- The Center of the Universe: Toronto, Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, but with HFY they can go further and use it as a way to openly celebrate subjects and behaviors that are coded to be abhortent in our normal society, like Genocide or racial discrimination. Talking about how to violently remove First Nations from their land and hopefully it will be shut down quickly, but paint them blue and most mods won't bat an eye.
This is one reason why I love Star Wars, anyone advocating for HFY is portrayed as an asshole at best. Humans may make up an implausible amount of the population, but there is no united human culture like some people in other sci-fi like to pretend.
- Location
- Luton Airport
I liked the 2300AD setting for that, that Earth was still divided as separate nations, each with their own offworld colonies.
Vyslanté
The self is a prison
- Location
- European Union
I'm currently reading a novel called Through struggle, the stars with a similar situation — and it's nice to see, yeah.
HFY truly is some stupid stuff. That said, I've considered how bad it'd be if somebody in a galactic setting started working with the extraterrestrials to screw over everybody else. I mean, 'race traitor' is silly in a modern context, but in the future that could probably be the single worst charge next to working with the machines to wipe out all organic life. How rotten would a human have to be to sell out the rest of Humanity?